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Thread: Details about crucifixion

  1. #1

    Details about crucifixion

    I was always wondering why did the Bible bother to include the way they wanted Jesus to drink some vineger before crucifixion, how he tasted it and refused, but then how right before he died they offered it to him again and this time he drank it. How is any of it relevant to anything? I realize that it happened to have taken place, but Bible doesn't include everything that took place: for example, Bible doesn't tell you every single time Jesus had breakfast, lunch and dinner. So whatever is included in the Bible is somehow relevant. So what is the relevance of the vinegar thing? It seems like I am missing something.

  2. #2
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    Re: Details about crucifixion

    I wondered this a long time myself, and found this recently after reading through Luke. At the last supper prior to the crucifixion:

    After taking the cup, He gave thanks and said, “Take this and divide it among yourselves. For I tell you that I will not drink of the fruit of the vine from now on until the kingdom of God comes.” (Luke 22:17-18)

    So by Him drinking it upon His death, this underscored His mission, "it is finished", and signified that the kingdom of God had begun. Accepting the wine was a reminder to the disciples of what He had said earlier, that the situation may have looked like a defeat, but it was actually the most pivotal moment and greatest victory of mankind.

  3. #3

    Re: Details about crucifixion

    Quote Originally Posted by Subriemannian View Post
    I was always wondering why did the Bible bother to include the way they wanted Jesus to drink some vineger before crucifixion, how he tasted it and refused, but then how right before he died they offered it to him again and this time he drank it. How is any of it relevant to anything? I realize that it happened to have taken place, but Bible doesn't include everything that took place: for example, Bible doesn't tell you every single time Jesus had breakfast, lunch and dinner. So whatever is included in the Bible is somehow relevant. So what is the relevance of the vinegar thing? It seems like I am missing something.

    it's a fulfillment of a prophecy spoken long beforehand of the Christ.

    “And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? Some of them that stood there, when they heard that, said, This man calleth for Elias. And straightway one of them ran, and took a sponge, and filled it with vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink.”
    **Matthew‬ *27:46-48‬ *KJV‬‬

    My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?

    He trusted on the Lord that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.”
    **Psalms‬ *22:1, 8‬ *KJV‬‬

    “They gave me also gall for my meat; and in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink.”
    **Psalms‬ *69:21‬ *KJV‬‬

    here's where it makes sense

    “After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst. Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a sponge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth. When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.”
    **John‬ *19:28-30‬ *KJV‬‬


    The fulfillment of prophecy regarding his death. Most everything in the gospel is in prophecy first, then in the gospel we often read " that it might be fulfilled, or that the scripture might be fulfilled"

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    Re: Details about crucifixion

    It's because it fulfills prophecy that others here have already stated.

    There's also the historical fact that cheap wine filled with such additions as myrrh and/or gall, which the Bible declares, was used during crucifixions to dull the senses - both physical and mental - of people dying on the cross, to stupefy them. Jesus refused that.

    Myrrh has medicinal purposes today as well.

    The second time, the Bible says that first Jesus was aware that it was over. That's when he cried out for something to drink. Then they gave him sour wine and he drank, then died.

    It's because it fulfills prophecy that others here have already stated.

    There's also the historical fact that cheap wine filled with such additions as myrrh and/or gall, which the Bible declares, was used during crucifixions to dull the senses - both physical and mental - of people dying on the cross, to stupefy them. Jesus refused that.

    Myrrh has medicinal purposes today as well.

    The second time, the Bible says that first Jesus was aware that it was over. That's when he cried out for something to drink. Then they gave him sour wine and he drank, then died.
    ".....it's your nickel"

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    Re: Details about crucifixion

    The OP is something I have wondered about before. Here's a post I wrote a while back. I think there is something to it.

    I will have a couple of questions to ask at the end of this post. But first, I need to set the stage.

    I've been reading in Hosea. Today, it was chapter 4 and some of it, at least to me, was confusing. So I tried to research it and understand a little better. Well, towards the end of the chapter, there was this verse:

    Hosea 4:18

    KJV Their drink is sour: they have committed whoredom continually: her rulers with shame do love, Give ye.

    NASB Their liquor gone,They play the harlot continually;
    Their rulers dearly love shame.

    I checked out all the Hebrew word with strongs concordance for "sour" in the KJV. And the concordance states, that where it was translated "sour" it is a Greek/Hebrew idiom. JFB (Jameson, Faucet, and Brown) references Isa 1:22.

    KJV Isa 1:22 Your silver has become dross,
    Your drink diluted with water.

    JFB states this about the passages: "Their drink is sour - metaphor for utter degeneracy of principle (Isa 1:22). Or, unbridled licentiousness; not mere ordinary sin, but as abandoned as drunkards who vomit and smell sour with wine potations (Calvin)."

    I found that very interesting. They are saying it was a total abandonment to sin.

    Questions:

    1. Was the northern kingdom destroyed soon after, or immediately after, or during Hosea?

    And now for the kicker question, what I am really after:

    2. Just before Jesus died, they gave him sour wine. After receiving it, scripture says "it is finished" and He gave up the Ghost. I want to say that this represents Jesus taking the complete fullness of rebellion on Himself. Not just the rebellion of the ignorant, but the rebellion of those of us who reject the knowledge of God and turn to full blown sin as what happened in Hosea's day. And keep in mind that God also prophesied that He would again be a husband to the rebellious Israel in Hosea 2.

    What do you guys think?
    https://bibleforums.org/showthread.p...ight=sour+wine
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

  6. #6

    Re: Details about crucifixion

    Quote Originally Posted by jayne View Post
    It's because it fulfills prophecy that others here have already stated.

    There's also the historical fact that cheap wine filled with such additions as myrrh and/or gall, which the Bible declares, was used during crucifixions to dull the senses - both physical and mental - of people dying on the cross, to stupefy them. Jesus refused that.

    Myrrh has medicinal purposes today as well.

    The second time, the Bible says that first Jesus was aware that it was over. That's when he cried out for something to drink. Then they gave him sour wine and he drank, then died.

    It's because it fulfills prophecy that others here have already stated.

    There's also the historical fact that cheap wine filled with such additions as myrrh and/or gall, which the Bible declares, was used during crucifixions to dull the senses - both physical and mental - of people dying on the cross, to stupefy them. Jesus refused that.

    Myrrh has medicinal purposes today as well.

    The second time, the Bible says that first Jesus was aware that it was over. That's when he cried out for something to drink. Then they gave him sour wine and he drank, then died.

    amen , to me it also seems as if they weren't sure still whether he was the Christ or not. Because when he called out the beginning of psalm 22, they say "he's calling for God, lets see if he comes and saves him" then one runs to get the vinegar.....because they had read the scriptures as well. It's just my own thought, but I just see them expecting still , a physical appearance of God coming to save the Christ, and overthrow the Roman rule. Sort of a military leader they were looking for.

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