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Thread: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

  1. #61
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    Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    I can sum up the problem in a few words...

    Evangelism is only "practiced" and no disciple making, is truly executed. Meaning, only half the work is being done resulting in evangelistic effort that HAS no power.
    Bingo... IF it is even "practiced".

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    Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    A... that command was given to disciples FOR the Body of Christ. Any who become a disciple, are under that command.

    You posted the verse, I don't have too again (but I will)... so maybe you should support the command instead of using a bunch of strained gnat opinions that you have, in effort to speak against the command?

    So, I will post the verse again:

    And Jesus came and said to them, 'All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age

    Teaching them to observe ALL that I have commanded YOU.

    Your statement defies this command because you are saying that NOT all is to be taught, not all is to be observed, and when it comes to this command, STOP.

    That command instructs that disciples teach the disciples under them (equipping them) and THEN those disciples are to GO. These disciples continue to teach new disciples and then the new disciples GO, etc, etc, etc!
    That is your interpretation, not what it says and you're make me say things I didn't say. First if this « great commission » was given to everybody as you seem to believe, why is it said only to the eleven disciples v. 16 and why is it in Matthew? If this « great commission » was for « the » church (I wonder which one) then that « church » didn't do a good job at all, cause nothing has come of it.

    According to this « great commission », the eleven are send to all nations (gentile nations) but that is directly contradicted by Paul who wrote ± 25 years after the so called « great commission» the following:

    Gal. 2:7 — 9 « But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles) And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision ».

    So here we have Paul in Jerusalem talking with the 12 about his gospel to the gentiles clearly stating that the 12 went to the circumcision. Now where is the « great commission » given to the eleven? They should go to all nations! At least a voice from heaven should correct all of them! But this didn't happen, and they didn't because the so called « great commission » is not for the current dispensation or time if you will.

    Aristarkos

  3. #63
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    Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

    Aristarkos

    I personally don't see how anyone can read Mathew 28 and come to the conclusion that the Apostle's weren't supposed to pass the message along. It goes hand in hand with 2 Timothy 2 / 2 . What is your idea of evangelism and discipleship ? What does it look like to you ? This is the crux of our debate.

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    Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pbminimum View Post
    Aristarkos

    I personally don't see how anyone can read Mathew 28 and come to the conclusion that the Apostle's weren't supposed to pass the message along. It goes hand in hand with 2 Timothy 2 / 2 . What is your idea of evangelism and discipleship ? What does it look like to you ? This is the crux of our debate.
    No, the crux of our debate is to whom the so called « great commission » was given all the other things are accessories. What I wonder is why you need the « great commission » to teach people? I don't believe it was aimed at me or any gentile and I teach and evangelize.

    Aristarkos

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    Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos View Post
    No, the crux of our debate is to whom the so called « great commission » was given all the other things are accessories. What I wonder is why you need the « great commission » to teach people? I don't believe it was aimed at me or any gentile and I teach and evangelize.

    Aristarkos
    The heart of the Great Commission is to go and make disciples. Are you honestly going to try to pretend that's not what we've been saying ? Discipleship starts at conversion, by the way.

    Again... lose your obsession with that title and focus on the message in Mathew 28.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos View Post
    No, the crux of our debate is to whom the so called « great commission » was given all the other things are accessories. What I wonder is why you need the « great commission » to teach people? I don't believe it was aimed at me or any gentile and I teach and evangelize.

    Aristarkos
    Good to see your carrying out the Great Commission !!!

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    Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos View Post
    That is your interpretation, not what it says and you're make me say things I didn't say. First if this « great commission » was given to everybody as you seem to believe, why is it said only to the eleven disciples v. 16 and why is it in Matthew?
    Not gonna strain gnats by saying it was given to some and only those some. With your premise, all the letters throughout the NT, were only "given" to certain people also. For example, when Paul wrote the letter to Galatia, are you gonna follow through with your premise and say... we don't follow what Paul said to the Galatians (probably not since you are trying to use that letter to prove that instead of GOing, we are to STOP. Maybe just THEY were to stop

    Phillip, Timothy, two people who became disciples LATER and followed through with the command... guess they are wrong in making disciples and discipled them?

    I posted the verse from 2 Cor 5 informing US ALL, not just the Corinthians, that we all experience the ministry of reconciliation. That ministry is to be taught to ALL the Body and was NEVER limited to those who were with Jesus, when He commanded we are to preach the Gospel to the world.

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    Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pbminimum View Post
    The heart of the Great Commission is to go and make disciples. Are you honestly going to try to pretend that's not what we've been saying ? Discipleship starts at conversion, by the way.

    Again... lose your obsession with that title and focus on the message in Mathew 28.
    Telling someone who has valuable Scriptural objections he is obsessed while ignoring his posts isn't nice Pb, just explain how you see the statement in Galatians.

    Good to see your carrying out the Great Commission !!!
    I wonder how Abraham got the gospel preached without the great commission!!!

    Aristarkos

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    Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    Not gonna strain gnats by saying it was given to some and only those some. With your premise, all the letters throughout the NT, were only "given" to certain people also. For example, when Paul wrote the letter to Galatia, are you gonna follow through with your premise and say... we don't follow what Paul said to the Galatians (probably not since you are trying to use that letter to prove that instead of GOing, we are to STOP. Maybe just THEY were to stop

    Phillip, Timothy, two people who became disciples LATER and followed through with the command... guess they are wrong in making disciples and discipled them?

    I posted the verse from 2 Cor 5 informing US ALL, not just the Corinthians, that we all experience the ministry of reconciliation. That ministry is to be taught to ALL the Body and was NEVER limited to those who were with Jesus, when He commanded we are to preach the Gospel to the world.
    Again you are under the impression that only the great commission lets people evangelize or make them disciple, which is an error.

    Aristarkos

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    Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos View Post
    Again you are under the impression that only the great commission lets people evangelize or make them disciple, which is an error.

    Aristarkos
    Negative. Being a follower/believer of Christ "lets" a person fulfill the commandment

    That command just ensures that the believer understands His NEED for the Body to make disciples so then THEY can... GO!
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


  10. #70
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    Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos View Post
    Telling someone who has valuable Scriptural objections he is obsessed while ignoring his posts isn't nice Pb, just explain how you see the statement in Galatians.



    I wonder how Abraham got the gospel preached without the great commission!!!

    Aristarkos
    The term "disciple" is synonymous with the church age Aristarkos, and you know this. The way God chose to speak to His people in the Old Testament was through the Priest's and Prophets... you know this too. To dismiss the New Testament churches purpose to go and make disciples is willfully ignoring pretty much most of the New Testament. It is the method that God has chosen to reach the world. You can disagree with it because you don't like the label " Great Commission", or you can just use the term "New Testament Discipleship". It really doesn't matter to me, but to compare the churches function in the New Testament under the covenant of Grace verses the Old Testament's example of the Prophet's and Priest's really isn't applicable in my opinion.

    Yeah.. I was probably a little snarky. Sorry about that.

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    Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    Negative. Being a follower/believer of Christ "lets" a person fulfill the commandment

    That command just ensures that the believer understands His NEED for the Body to make disciples so then THEY can... GO!
    And again you have no Scripture to support your view, why is that? I know you disagree, but shouldn't Scripture be your great help and show me with plenty of Scripture how many times the great commission is executed? I mean people being baptized in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit of course. I've said it to Jayne there are three types of baptizing:

    1. Water baptism like in the Gospels and the first 10 chapters of the Acts.
    2. Baptism with holy spirit like in Acts 2.
    3. Baptism in His death Rom. 6:4.

    None of these are like the great commission orders and of these three you can find examples, but not of the great commission.

    Aristarkos

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    Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pbminimum View Post
    The term "disciple" is synonymous with the church age Aristarkos, and you know this. The way God chose to speak to His people in the Old Testament was through the Priest's and Prophets... you know this too. To dismiss the New Testament churches purpose to go and make disciples is willfully ignoring pretty much most of the New Testament. It is the method that God has chosen to reach the world. You can disagree with it because you don't like the label " Great Commission", or you can just use the term "New Testament Discipleship". It really doesn't matter to me, but to compare the churches function in the New Testament under the covenant of Grace verses the Old Testament's example of the Prophet's and Priest's really isn't applicable in my opinion.

    Yeah.. I was probably a little snarky. Sorry about that.
    I have no problem if you get a bit snarky, I might come across like that as well to you. But, again no Scripture to support your view. Why? If it is of such great importance to « the » church there must be something in Scripture?

    Of Abraham we read in the N.T. precisely in Gal. 3:8 « And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed », and back then there was no great commission.

    Aristarkos

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    Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos View Post
    And again you have no Scripture to support your view, why is that? I know you disagree, but shouldn't Scripture be your great help and show me with plenty of Scripture how many times the great commission is executed? I mean people being baptized in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit of course. I've said it to Jayne there are three types of baptizing:

    1. Water baptism like in the Gospels and the first 10 chapters of the Acts.
    2. Baptism with holy spirit like in Acts 2.
    3. Baptism in His death Rom. 6:4.

    None of these are like the great commission orders and of these three you can find examples, but not of the great commission.

    Aristarkos
    You are splitting hairs man. Bottom line... GO OUT AND REACH THE WORLD WITH THE GOSPEL, MAKING DISCIPLES WHO WILL REACH THE WORLD WITH THE GOSPEL. Are you seriously going to say there is no scripture to support this ? Come on man. That's basically the entire New Testament.

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    Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pbminimum View Post
    You are splitting hairs man. Bottom line... GO OUT AND REACH THE WORLD WITH THE GOSPEL, MAKING DISCIPLES WHO WILL REACH THE WORLD WITH THE GOSPEL. Are you seriously going to say there is no scripture to support this ? Come on man. That's basically the entire New Testament.
    No, I'm seriously saying all of the above has nothing to do with the so called « great commission », and you haven't proven me wrong with Scripture. The fact that « the » church believes it has to turn the whole world to Christianity — which is nowhere in Scripture as well — has nothing to do with it. You have to provide Scriptures to convince someone he's wrong and I'm still waiting for that.

    Aristarkos

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    Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos View Post
    And again you have no Scripture to support your view, why is that? I know you disagree, but shouldn't Scripture be your great help and show me with plenty of Scripture how many times the great commission is executed? I mean people being baptized in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit of course. I've said it to Jayne there are three types of baptizing:

    1. Water baptism like in the Gospels and the first 10 chapters of the Acts.
    2. Baptism with holy spirit like in Acts 2.
    3. Baptism in His death Rom. 6:4.

    None of these are like the great commission orders and of these three you can find examples, but not of the great commission.

    Aristarkos
    So your efforts is to utilize scripture against scripture? There is no scripture on HOW to heal either yet many examples of healing. So do I "pick" ONE example of a healing in the Bible and strain that gnat and say, ONLY that way? Imagine if a person picked only the mud in the eye healing, for blindness

    Brother, Jesus gave a command, so let us DO IT and not change the intent of the command by saying, "a" verse says this in opposition of the command. Because at the end of the day, the use of any scripture to counter other scripture, the person doing the countering, is wrong.

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