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Thread: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

  1. #16

    Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos View Post
    Circumcision reaches deeper to my opinion. Circumcision is a sign. A sign is something that points to another matter. Col. 2:11 teaches what this is: the circumcision of Christ. But not on the eighth day but on the cross, one that happened without hands. Physical circumcision caused a certain pain (Gen. 34:25) and gave a certain shedding of blood; these are the symbols of the surpassing suffering of Christ and the shedding of His blood. So the sign pointed to the source for justification: Christ's suffering and bloodshedding. It is also the seal on justice. For Abraham, circumcision was not only a sign but also a seal. It imprinted the seal on imputed righteousness of faith, confirmed God's imputation therein, as well as a seal confirming the authenticity of the document to which it is attached. The circumcision in the flesh did not precede imputed righteousness of faith, it followed on it. Nor did it confirm the righteousness of the circumcised for faith, for they were only eight days old, but made it into Israel, made him come into « the covenant of circumcision ». This was not the case with Abraham, with him it was a seal, a hallmark, an unquestionable confirmation of imputed justice.



    First I think you have to read 1 Cor. correctly. As you may know Paul uses quite a lot of parenthesis, he does it also here. V. 21 — 28 is one of those intermediate sentences.

    So what you should actually read is « But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. ... Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead? ». V. 29 should have been translated like this: « Otherwise, what will they do that are baptized? (is it) for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are they baptized for them? ». If you look at the Greek text you will see that only (is it) is added, the last « for the dead » is « for them » in Greek.

    From that time there is no baptism for the dead known, as one has taught and are still learning. Paul is not talking here about those who were baptized instead of already deceased to save them as a result, or who were baptized at the point of death as one has also taught, but simply asks: Is one baptized if one doesn't believe in the resurrection, which is also represented by baptism? Is it to stay dead?

    Aristarkos

    “And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations. This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised. And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you. And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

    And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.”
    **Genesis‬ *17:9-12, 14‬ *KJV‬‬

    Everything in the ot points to the true things in Christ...I agree , it's a shadow of the cirscucision of the heart. The circumcision of the heart is accomplished through his word however the cross doesn't circumsize a heart it's accomplished through hearing and believing the gospel.

    the law says this....

    “Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

    but it's not until Christ comes when we learn this


    But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

    And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

    And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.”
    **Matthew‬ *5:27-30‬ *KJV‬‬


    if we have lust in our heart for others, we need to believe what Jesus is saying there. His is what causes us to first recognize where the issue is, it's only because we have lust in our hearts, that we commit sexually immoral acts. One can say " don't commit the sin" to a sinner, but the issue is

    “And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man. For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.”
    **Mark‬ *7:20-23‬ *KJV‬‬


    lust leads to the act, if we deal with the heart through the gospel teachings of Christ, no one will be committing sexually immoral actions. You can tell a person who's heart is full of lust and perversion a thousand times " don't act on what's in your heart" but it does nothing to free them from sin, it's a directive to them of what not to do. A directive to restrain yourself from following your own nature, it's contrary to sinful man.

    but when you have the understanding " the issue is the lust I carry and feed in my mind and heart, then we can actually overcome the sin in our hearts, removing it casting it away just as they were commanded to do with the foreskin. Just because Jesus died, that doesn't make us instantly holy and mean we're never going to think and do wrong, it doesn't change the nature , the gospel does because we simply believe in the one who said it. If he is the lord, then he is the lord and his word is ours to keep.

    if you notice his doctrine is all focused on the inner things of the heart, it's that way in order to circumcise the heart by faith, because we simply believe what he's saying. If a person with lust in thier heart believes the gospel teachings about lust, if they truly believe in Christ and hear his word and keep it as it is the word of power and authority over them , the word of thier Lord, this is where the battle is won. Faith works in us by his word in order to remove the sin in us , because that's what causes us to act and serve sin.

    there's absolutely no salvation apart from accepting his gospel, his death and resurrection is central, but so is his word. Neither removes the other. We have grace, and also truth in the gospel.

    it's difficult I've found for many to accept his word when it touches on something we as sinners love. For instance his teachings about greed, about giving to the poor, about putting others needs above our own wants....those things are very difficult for someone who believes in Jesus , but also have money and wealth in high regard, in other words people who have greed in thier hearts, it's hard for them to accept his teachings on those things because it brings conviction and forces a battle between our faith in him, and our love of possessions and storing up wealth ...

    or someone who struggles with Unforgiveness , it's hard for them to hear Jesus the lord say " if you do not forgive your brother thier sins, neither will your father forgive your sins" this again is difficult to accept for someone who bears grudges and refuses to let things go....but it forces a confrontation within us. Do I really believe my Lord words ? The word works in us To bring about the circumcision of the heart, our place is to just accept and believe it, that's where we change inwardly and are born again. It's a process as we grow, he prunes and takes things away that once we loved sinners love sin it feels great to the flesh.....but he through the living word that is " a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart" is able to change a sinful heart, into one shaped and modeled after the gospel, which is the doctrine of the children of God, born through His will, that is expressed through his word.

    the gospel is more than Jesus dying on the cross and raising up, that's the beginning, the gospel of the kingdom , that's the inheritance of eternal life.

  2. #17

    Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos View Post
    Circumcision reaches deeper to my opinion. Circumcision is a sign. A sign is something that points to another matter. Col. 2:11 teaches what this is: the circumcision of Christ. But not on the eighth day but on the cross, one that happened without hands. Physical circumcision caused a certain pain (Gen. 34:25) and gave a certain shedding of blood; these are the symbols of the surpassing suffering of Christ and the shedding of His blood. So the sign pointed to the source for justification: Christ's suffering and bloodshedding. It is also the seal on justice. For Abraham, circumcision was not only a sign but also a seal. It imprinted the seal on imputed righteousness of faith, confirmed God's imputation therein, as well as a seal confirming the authenticity of the document to which it is attached. The circumcision in the flesh did not precede imputed righteousness of faith, it followed on it. Nor did it confirm the righteousness of the circumcised for faith, for they were only eight days old, but made it into Israel, made him come into « the covenant of circumcision ». This was not the case with Abraham, with him it was a seal, a hallmark, an unquestionable confirmation of imputed justice.



    First I think you have to read 1 Cor. correctly. As you may know Paul uses quite a lot of parenthesis, he does it also here. V. 21 — 28 is one of those intermediate sentences.

    So what you should actually read is « But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. ... Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead? ». V. 29 should have been translated like this: « Otherwise, what will they do that are baptized? (is it) for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are they baptized for them? ». If you look at the Greek text you will see that only (is it) is added, the last « for the dead » is « for them » in Greek.

    From that time there is no baptism for the dead known, as one has taught and are still learning. Paul is not talking here about those who were baptized instead of already deceased to save them as a result, or who were baptized at the point of death as one has also taught, but simply asks: Is one baptized if one doesn't believe in the resurrection, which is also represented by baptism? Is it to stay dead?

    Aristarkos

    sorry bro I'm not sure how to pull specific quotes , so I had to reply twice....

    thanks also for the thoughts there on that verse from Corinthians, God bless

  3. #18

    Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos View Post
    Circumcision reaches deeper to my opinion. Circumcision is a sign. A sign is something that points to another matter. Col. 2:11 teaches what this is: the circumcision of Christ. But not on the eighth day but on the cross, one that happened without hands. Physical circumcision caused a certain pain (Gen. 34:25) and gave a certain shedding of blood; these are the symbols of the surpassing suffering of Christ and the shedding of His blood. So the sign pointed to the source for justification: Christ's suffering and bloodshedding. It is also the seal on justice. For Abraham, circumcision was not only a sign but also a seal. It imprinted the seal on imputed righteousness of faith, confirmed God's imputation therein, as well as a seal confirming the authenticity of the document to which it is attached. The circumcision in the flesh did not precede imputed righteousness of faith, it followed on it. Nor did it confirm the righteousness of the circumcised for faith, for they were only eight days old, but made it into Israel, made him come into « the covenant of circumcision ». This was not the case with Abraham, with him it was a seal, a hallmark, an unquestionable confirmation of imputed justice.



    First I think you have to read 1 Cor. correctly. As you may know Paul uses quite a lot of parenthesis, he does it also here. V. 21 — 28 is one of those intermediate sentences.

    So what you should actually read is « But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. ... Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead? ». V. 29 should have been translated like this: « Otherwise, what will they do that are baptized? (is it) for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are they baptized for them? ». If you look at the Greek text you will see that only (is it) is added, the last « for the dead » is « for them » in Greek.

    From that time there is no baptism for the dead known, as one has taught and are still learning. Paul is not talking here about those who were baptized instead of already deceased to save them as a result, or who were baptized at the point of death as one has also taught, but simply asks: Is one baptized if one doesn't believe in the resurrection, which is also represented by baptism? Is it to stay dead?

    Aristarkos
    I realize I quoted from Genesis concerning circumcision and didn't follow up lol

    Abraham is given two covenants one for his natural descendants or seed.

    “And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him. And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years; And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance. And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age. But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full. And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces. In the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:”
    **Genesis‬ *15:12-18‬ *KJV‬‬

    this is the covenant which is concerning circumcision, knowing that when Abraham was given the circumcision, his only son was Ishmael. Who Paul says represents the first covenant. Which is from the above promise for Abrahams blood descendants , who go into Egypt, are oppressed four hundred years then he delivered them with great possessions just like the promise there, and led them into the land he promised.

    but with Isaac who was not yet born , he makes the promise of the eternal covenant for all people of the earth. So then after Abram receives circumcision, his name is changed to Abraham, and soon after he re wives the promise of Isaac whom Paul says represents the new covenant.

    “This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised. And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you. And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

    And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be. And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her.

    Abraham doubted this because of thier ages so he asks that Ishmael be the seed..but .God re confirms his promise of Isaac.

    And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee! And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.


    And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation. But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.”
    **Genesis‬ *17:10-12, 15-16, 18-21‬ *KJV‬‬

    again one notes there Israel was made a great nation and bore 12 sons or princes....but the covenant promise of Isaac is where he says everlasting covenant. Our covenant is confirmed when God swears by himself.

    “And the angel of the Lord called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time, And said, [B]By myself have I sworn, saith the Lord, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:[/B] That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies; And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.”
    **Genesis‬ *22:15-18‬ *KJV‬‬


    see just as James makes the point Abraham did works also, he obeyed God by faith. His belief was counted as righteousness, but he was also tested in his faith and obeyed God. And when he did , the lord then swore by himself ....that " all nations of the earth would be blessed through his seed"

    which we inderstand through revelation of Paul, refers to Jesus . Imputed righteousness isn't real if our actions don't line up. Faith and works go hand in hand. Faith first, brings us to works. Roghtsousenss by faith first, brings righteousness in deed and truth.


    just as Ishmael was cast out of Abrahams house when Isaac was born so is the covenant, when the seed who is Christ has come.

  4. #19
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    Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower1977 View Post
    I realize I quoted from Genesis concerning circumcision and didn't follow up lol

    Abraham is given two covenants one for his natural descendants or seed.

    “And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him. And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years; And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance. And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age. But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full. And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces. In the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:”
    **Genesis‬ *15:12-18‬ *KJV‬‬

    this is the covenant which is concerning circumcision, knowing that when Abraham was given the circumcision, his only son was Ishmael. Who Paul says represents the first covenant. Which is from the above promise for Abrahams blood descendants , who go into Egypt, are oppressed four hundred years then he delivered them with great possessions just like the promise there, and led them into the land he promised.

    but with Isaac who was not yet born , he makes the promise of the eternal covenant for all people of the earth. So then after Abram receives circumcision, his name is changed to Abraham, and soon after he re wives the promise of Isaac whom Paul says represents the new covenant.

    “This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised. And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you. And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

    And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be. And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her.

    Abraham doubted this because of thier ages so he asks that Ishmael be the seed..but .God re confirms his promise of Isaac.

    And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee! And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.


    And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation. But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.”
    **Genesis‬ *17:10-12, 15-16, 18-21‬ *KJV‬‬

    again one notes there Israel was made a great nation and bore 12 sons or princes....but the covenant promise of Isaac is where he says everlasting covenant. Our covenant is confirmed when God swears by himself.

    “And the angel of the Lord called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time, And said, [B]By myself have I sworn, saith the Lord, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:[/B] That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies; And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.”
    **Genesis‬ *22:15-18‬ *KJV‬‬


    see just as James makes the point Abraham did works also, he obeyed God by faith. His belief was counted as righteousness, but he was also tested in his faith and obeyed God. And when he did , the lord then swore by himself ....that " all nations of the earth would be blessed through his seed"

    which we inderstand through revelation of Paul, refers to Jesus . Imputed righteousness isn't real if our actions don't line up. Faith and works go hand in hand. Faith first, brings us to works. Roghtsousenss by faith first, brings righteousness in deed and truth.


    just as Ishmael was cast out of Abrahams house when Isaac was born so is the covenant, when the seed who is Christ has come.
    I'm not really sure what your trying to tell me, but thanks for your posts anyway.

    Aristarkos

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    Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by hobie View Post
    Some may say, what is wrong with baptizing an infant? Well we need to go to the word of God and to the requirements for baptism.

    Baptism is for those that hear the Gospel message, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and repent of their sins. This must be done before a person can be baptized.

    "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." Acts 2:38.

    "Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ." Acts 20:21.

    Why do we need to repent to God?

    "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" Romans 3:23.

    Only those that receive the Word of God and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ are fit for baptism.

    "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls." Acts 2:41

    "And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
    He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." Mark 16:15, 16.

    "But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women." Acts 8:12.

    "And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
    And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." Acts 8:36, 37.

    The question must now be asked, ‘Can an infant understand the Gospel, accept the Lord Jesus Christ as their Saviour, and repent of their sins?’ Of course they cannot, so therefore according to the Bible they cannot be baptized and any church that condones infant baptism is not following the Word of God.
    In my view, traditions evolve. Baptism was an initiation ceremony into the Christian faith. Initially, John the Baptist introduced it as a ceremony of repentance from sin. It was a cleansing from sin.

    In Jesus' time Israel was on a downward spiral, spiritually and morally. That's why John the Baptist baptized them in water, to cleanse them from their compromises and lostness. And so Jesus continued this practice, adding his more pure message and in anticipation of what he was about to accomplish, in terms of redemption.

    Once Christianity was initiated, baptism was passed on to the Gentiles, who were invited to participate in the same cleansing process that had been given to the Jews. Only now, redemption had been won, and the spiritual cleansing was in the name of Jesus, who introduced a whole new moral code. The 613 requirements of the Law had been superseded by the commandments of Christ.

    But after a generation or two of Christianity in the Gentile world, children began to be raised up in Christianity from birth. They didn't have to choose a life of sin so that they could be baptized and cleansed from sin through repentance. Baptism of children, therefore, were just initiation ceremonies into Christianity, and done by parents to show their intention to raise their children by Christian standards.

    Infant Baptism, therefore, is really just a dedication service, similar to the Jewish People under the Law who had committed their children to godly teaching from birth. It was a parental commitment to obey God in raising their children in the Lord, and symbolized by baptism. Certainly, infants do not know what they are doing. Parents do know what they are doing.

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    Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos View Post
    What is quite peculiar, that those who are so obsessed with what they call « the great commission » only have this verse. The Lord said this while He was still on earth, so before the Acts and the letters written during that time.

    So I've asked this many times before, show just one instance, one verse, where anybody was baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. There's about a time frame of 40 years during those Acts, so if anybody listened to the Lord, finding this must be a breeze, but it isn't. Then what did the Lord teach them to command, what all those who are baptized in this particular way should observe? Last, v. 20 says according to the Greek « ... I am with you all days, even unto the end of the aion ». But the Lord is now hidden in God as Col. 3:3 says « For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God », even worse, those He spoke to (the eleven apostles v. 16) are dead as well.

    Aristarkos
    And I'm one of those obsessed with it !

    I'm just silly enough to read that "one" verse, and take it literally I guess. I'm also quite confident that when I get to heaven that Jesus will not rebuke me for taking it literally.

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    Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos View Post
    What is quite peculiar, that those who are so obsessed with what they call « the great commission » only have this verse. The Lord said this while He was still on earth, so before the Acts and the letters written during that time.

    So I've asked this many times before, show just one instance, one verse, where anybody was baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. There's about a time frame of 40 years during those Acts, so if anybody listened to the Lord, finding this must be a breeze, but it isn't. Then what did the Lord teach them to command, what all those who are baptized in this particular way should observe? Last, v. 20 says according to the Greek « ... I am with you all days, even unto the end of the aion ». But the Lord is now hidden in God as Col. 3:3 says « For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God », even worse, those He spoke to (the eleven apostles v. 16) are dead as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pbminimum View Post
    And I'm one of those obsessed with it !

    I'm just silly enough to read that "one" verse, and take it literally I guess. I'm also quite confident that when I get to heaven that Jesus will not rebuke me for taking it literally.
    I know you do Pb, it wasn't aimed at you personally.

    Aristarkos

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    Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos View Post
    I know you do Pb, it wasn't aimed at you personally.

    Aristarkos
    I know. I just couldn't help it.

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    Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pbminimum View Post
    I know. I just couldn't help it.
    To be honest, I wondered what kept you so long...

    Aristarkos

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    Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos View Post
    What is quite peculiar, that those who are so obsessed with what they call « the great commission » only have this verse. The Lord said this while He was still on earth, so before the Acts and the letters written during that time.

    So I've asked this many times before, show just one instance, one verse, where anybody was baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. There's about a time frame of 40 years during those Acts, so if anybody listened to the Lord, finding this must be a breeze, but it isn't. Then what did the Lord teach them to command, what all those who are baptized in this particular way should observe? Last, v. 20 says according to the Greek « ... I am with you all days, even unto the end of the aion ». But the Lord is now hidden in God as Col. 3:3 says « For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God », even worse, those He spoke to (the eleven apostles v. 16) are dead as well.

    Aristarkos
    There are thousands of instances of reports of baptisms in the New Testament. Especially if you count Acts 2. And these are just the ones we are told of. I believe there were obviously thousands and thousands more during the span of the New Testament.

    No details are given. It's simply stated that people were baptized. Since no details are given at all except that people were baptized, why are you declaring that no one was baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit? Why are you supposing that these 11 men would NOT obey Christ and do what he said regarding baptism for believers?

    • Around 3,000 baptized on the Day of Pentecost with no detail.
    • Philip baptized an unknown number of men and women in Acts 8 with no detail.
    • Philip baptized the Ethiopian eunuch. Acts 8 with no detail except they both "went down to the water].
    • Saul [Paul] was baptized with no detail. Acts 9
    • Unknown amount of Gentiles commanded to be baptized by Peter. No details. Acts 10
    • Lydia and her entire household baptized with no detail given. Acts 16
    • The Philippian jailer and all his household baptized with no detail given. Acts 16.


    As you know, there is a lot more. I just got tired of looking.

    With no details given of the baptism, all we can do is to understand that the Apostles baptized in the manner that Jesus Christ told them to.
    ".....it's your nickel"

  11. #26
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    Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by jayne View Post
    There are thousands of instances of reports of baptisms in the New Testament. Especially if you count Acts 2. And these are just the ones we are told of. I believe there were obviously thousands and thousands more during the span of the New Testament.

    No details are given. It's simply stated that people were baptized. Since no details are given at all except that people were baptized, why are you declaring that no one was baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit? Why are you supposing that these 11 men would NOT obey Christ and do what he said regarding baptism for believers?

    • Around 3,000 baptized on the Day of Pentecost with no detail.
    • Philip baptized an unknown number of men and women in Acts 8 with no detail.
    • Philip baptized the Ethiopian eunuch. Acts 8 with no detail except they both "went down to the water].
    • Saul [Paul] was baptized with no detail. Acts 9
    • Unknown amount of Gentiles commanded to be baptized by Peter. No details. Acts 10
    • Lydia and her entire household baptized with no detail given. Acts 16
    • The Philippian jailer and all his household baptized with no detail given. Acts 16.


    As you know, there is a lot more. I just got tired of looking.

    With no details given of the baptism, all we can do is to understand that the Apostles baptized in the manner that Jesus Christ told them to.
    So the detailed great commission is never in detail performed? Since at that time the Kingdom of Heaven was still preached by the 12 apostles, they baptized in water, like John the Baptist. Paul — who was the gentile apostle — wasn't send to baptize « For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel ... » 1 Cor. 1:17.

    Aristarkos

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    Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

    So you believe that all of the thousands of baptisms in the New Testament were just men dunking people under the water with no words said? No message? No instruction as to why this was being done?

    Paul said he wasn't called to baptize because people would be treating his baptizing them like they were baptized by a celebrity. That's what was happening in that church at Corinth. People were "worshipping" the men that baptized them. Paul was angry at that.

    And he did baptize some people - he lists them somewhere in and around that passage.

    When he said that he was not called to baptize, but to preach - he wasn't disregarding or criticizing baptism. He was putting the emphasis on what was of the most critical - preaching.

    This church was in a hot mess. Idolizing the man who baptized you was just one of their many, many problems.
    ".....it's your nickel"

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    Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by jayne View Post
    So you believe that all of the thousands of baptisms in the New Testament were just men dunking people under the water with no words said? No message? No instruction as to why this was being done?

    Paul said he wasn't called to baptize because people would be treating his baptizing them like they were baptized by a celebrity. That's what was happening in that church at Corinth. People were "worshipping" the men that baptized them. Paul was angry at that.

    And he did baptize some people - he lists them somewhere in and around that passage.

    When he said that he was not called to baptize, but to preach - he wasn't disregarding or criticizing baptism. He was putting the emphasis on what was of the most critical - preaching.

    This church was in a hot mess. Idolizing the man who baptized you was just one of their many, many problems.
    The great commission says: « Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost », these are the gentiles, yet what does Paul say in Rom. 15:8 « Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers ». So this is in direct contradiction with the common understanding of Mat. 28:19, assuming certain things isn't helping. In Galatians — written ± 58 AD, therefore ± 25 years after the so called great commission — Paul says « But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter », so they — the 12 — were preaching to the Jews, not « all nations ». Pay specific attention to v. 8 « For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles », thus only Paul was send to the gentiles. The so called great commission is not for our time.

    Aristarkos

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    Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos View Post
    The great commission says: « Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost », these are the gentiles, yet what does Paul say in Rom. 15:8 « Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers ». So this is in direct contradiction with the common understanding of Mat. 28:19, assuming certain things isn't helping. In Galatians — written ± 58 AD, therefore ± 25 years after the so called great commission — Paul says « But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter », so they — the 12 — were preaching to the Jews, not « all nations ». Pay specific attention to v. 8 « For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles », thus only Paul was send to the gentiles. The so called great commission is not for our time.

    Aristarkos
    " And teaching them to observe all of the things I have taught you"..... And this stopped when ? Exactly when ?

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    Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pbminimum View Post
    " And teaching them to observe all of the things I have taught you"..... And this stopped when ? Exactly when ?
    First you have to say what those things are that the Lord taught them.

    Aristarkos

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