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Thread: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

  1. #151
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    Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos View Post
    The great commission is about baptism, I'll quote it again for you:

    Mat. 28:19 « Go ye therefore and disciple all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of THE Holy Spirit »:
    The Great Commission is about making disciples.

    Matthew 28:16-20

    Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. And when they saw him they worshiped him, but some doubted. And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

    First, Jesus Christ made clear to those men that he [Jesus] had ALL authority and that because of that, he was directing them to do what he [U]commanded.[U] This was not a idea to bounce around in a committee meeting and left up to the discretion of the individual. What Jesus told them to do was a command and he gave his authoritative credentials to make that command.

    "THEREFORE" - because, in step with, in a natural succession

    What did he tell them to do?
    • "Go" - It has to be purposeful. A part of your life, your church's life.
    • "Make disciples" - HERE is the kernel predicate of the sentence [I taught English, I can't help it.] Make disciples is the command.
    • "[by] baptizing them" and "[by] teaching them" - these are prepositional phrases that contain gerunds. The word "by" is understood just like the very first word in that command, "you" is understood. Gerunds have verbs IN them [verb + ing], but they are not verbs. They act as nouns.


    The Great Commission is about MAKING DISCIPLES.

    Jesus gave two steps that are necessary - NOT FOR SALVATION - but for making disciples. Jesus knew that a person cannot be saved and then be left alone to learn nothing, to have no fellowship, or to have no "link" to the body of which he is the head.

    The two steps are teaching and baptizing.

    • Teaching can include: preaching, revivals, Sunday School classes, one-on-one, online discussions, community Bible studies and a whole lot more. Teaching brings the all too necessary sanctification and growth after one is saved.
    • Baptizing includes immersion. Baptism AFTER salvation creates a bonding effect, Jesus commanded it, and while it does not save - it is commanded. Baptism is a visual picture of our dying with Christ, being buried with him, and rising with him to a new life.
    ".....it's your nickel"

  2. #152
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    Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by jayne View Post
    The Great Commission is about MAKING DISCIPLES.

    Jesus gave two steps that are necessary - NOT FOR SALVATION - but for making disciples. Jesus knew that a person cannot be saved and then be left alone to learn nothing, to have no fellowship, or to have no "link" to the body of which he is the head.

    The two steps are teaching and baptizing.

    • Teaching can include: preaching, revivals, Sunday School classes, one-on-one, online discussions, community Bible studies and a whole lot more. Teaching brings the all too necessary sanctification and growth after one is saved.
    • Baptizing includes immersion. Baptism AFTER salvation creates a bonding effect, Jesus commanded it, and while it does not save - it is commanded. Baptism is a visual picture of our dying with Christ, being buried with him, and rising with him to a new life.
    Amen. Academics has rendered so many disobedient to the very "basics" of Christian discipleship.
    Slug1--out

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  3. #153
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    Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

    So the question is not "Is there a Great Commission" but "does the bible imply that we should make disciples" ?

    As Jayne said, the Great Commission is about making disciples, baptism being a part of that command and not the entire command.

  4. #154
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    Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by jayne View Post
    The Great Commission is about making disciples.

    First, Jesus Christ made clear to those men that he [Jesus] had ALL authority and that because of that, he was directing them to do what he [U]commanded.[U] This was not a idea to bounce around in a committee meeting and left up to the discretion of the individual. What Jesus told them to do was a command and he gave his authoritative credentials to make that command.

    "THEREFORE" - because, in step with, in a natural succession

    What did he tell them to do?
    • "Go" - It has to be purposeful. A part of your life, your church's life.
    • "Make disciples" - HERE is the kernel predicate of the sentence [I taught English, I can't help it.] Make disciples is the command.
    • "[by] baptizing them" and "[by] teaching them" - these are prepositional phrases that contain gerunds. The word "by" is understood just like the very first word in that command, "you" is understood. Gerunds have verbs IN them [verb + ing], but they are not verbs. They act as nouns.


    The Great Commission is about MAKING DISCIPLES.
    And again I have to disagree, you're putting the emphasis on « disciples ». Disciples are pupils, students, those who have to learn and not apostles. Then you seem to have a lot of emphasis on the word by, which doesn't occur in Greek.

    You are completely ignoring the fact none of the apostles (the 11) did what the Lord said in Mat. 28:19. The Scriptures that say so are: Gal. 2:7 where Peter is clearly GOing to the circumcission, so not to all nations. You are completely ignoring the fact that Paul says he was not sent to baptize, 1 Cor. 1:17. You are completely ignoring that Jezus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers, Rom. 15:8 and those fathers are not the church fathers. The great commission is about baptizing those disciples in a specific way, of which there isn't a single example in Scripture.

    Jesus gave two steps that are necessary - NOT FOR SALVATION - but for making disciples. Jesus knew that a person cannot be saved and then be left alone to learn nothing, to have no fellowship, or to have no "link" to the body of which he is the head.
    You couldn't be further from the truth, I've extensively explained it in this thread.

    How can someone be saved and didn't learn anything? You do know that you need to be regenerated to be able to believe that Jesus is the Christ? 1 John 5:1, how can anybody believe that and know nothing?

    The two steps are teaching and baptizing.

    • Teaching can include: preaching, revivals, Sunday School classes, one-on-one, online discussions, community Bible studies and a whole lot more. Teaching brings the all too necessary sanctification and growth after one is saved.
    • Baptizing includes immersion. Baptism AFTER salvation creates a bonding effect, Jesus commanded it, and while it does not save - it is commanded. Baptism is a visual picture of our dying with Christ, being buried with him, and rising with him to a new life.
    This is pure modern church teaching and it has nothing to do with what the Scriptures teach. What you're saying is that Paul hardly saved a soul because he was not sent to baptize because if there is no bonding effect as you call it, will their salvation stay? How can Paul say he was not sent to baptize? He directly disobeyed a command from Jezus according to you.

    About Jezus Christ having all power, what does Hebrews 2:8 say about that? « Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him ». The 11 didn't do what he said, they went to the circumcision, not to all nations, so they disobeyed Jezus as well according to you, but that's why the great commission is not for this dispensation in this aion, but for the aion to come. What you are doing is appropriating what Israel is chosen by God to do: « But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light ».

    But, I'll keep repeating myself, in the current dispensation everyone can believe as they please. When we are resurrected we will have to account for what we did and didn't believe and also for what we taught and didn't taught.

    Aristarkos

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    Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

    That doesn't help your argument. The Apostle's were told to make disciples , not other Apostle's.

    Also, people aren't educated into Christ. They hear the word and God draws them by the power of the Holy Spirit unto salvation. This doesn't require a P.H.D. in theology.

    Baptism is not a modern church thing. It truly boggles my mind that anyone can read that into the scriptures.

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    Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Badger View Post
    I don't know what happens to the souls of children who die in infancy. I'd like to believe a just God would do the right thing.
    Children who die before they are old enough to know right from wrong will certainly go to heaven. The simple reason is that they are without sin save, 'Adam's sin' that we are all born with. But the blood of Jesus redeems them from original sin.

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    Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos View Post
    The healing we read about in Scripture, the gifts people had, those are no longer there, I've heard many testimonies of many people but none were like those described to us in Scripture.

    Aristarkos
    So you believe that the gift of healing, etc (1 Cor 12:8-10) ended with believers in the 1st-century? Brother, don't take this in a wrong way; but if healing is not happening in your church, then you must be in a DEAD Church!

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    Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos View Post
    It is not hard at all, you try to convince me without a single quote. The great commission is not for the current aion and none of you have the Scripture to correct me. Until then I'm with Scripture you are with « the » church.

    Aristarkos
    The great commission certainly is for this age, vide:

    Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

    John 21:15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.

    16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

    17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

    Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
    Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

    These are just a few, there are many more. The problem is that many read the Bible but don't really take in what they read. To deny that the scriptures don't support the Great Commission or that it is not for this age sadly speaks volumes.

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    Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    This is how I interpret this statement.

    The Body of Christ is NOT to make disciples, not teach them what has been taught by the Apostles, not GO into the world and make more disciples.
    Add this: the Body of Christ is NOT to go into the world and win souls for God.
    Don't know if it's just me - I read some statements by some professing Christians and I shake my head in sorrow as I contemplate the calibre of Christians of this age.

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    Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos View Post
    But, I'll keep repeating myself, in the current dispensation everyone can believe as they please. When we are resurrected we will have to account for what we did and didn't believe and also for what we taught and didn't taught.

    Aristarkos
    Ephesians 4:11 And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds[c] and teachers,[d] 12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood,[e] to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, 14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes. 15 Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ, 16 from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love.

    A, when did all this end for you? Right now, all you are saying about how we are not to Go, not to make disciples (to equip the Body, mature the Body)... the product of what you are saying so far in this thread, is WHY people are tossed to and fro due to human cunning, craftiness and deceitful schemes (personal academics)

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    Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    Ephesians 4:11 And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds[c] and teachers,[d] 12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood,[e] to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, 14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes. 15 Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ, 16 from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love.

    A, when did all this end for you? Right now, all you are saying about how we are not to Go, not to make disciples (to equip the Body, mature the Body)... the product of what you are saying so far in this thread, is WHY people are tossed to and fro due to human cunning, craftiness and deceitful schemes (personal academics)
    Where in the above quote of yours is the great commission? It isn't there. I'll say it again show me one verse where whoever baptized whoever like Mat. 28:19 says. That's all I'm asking and none of you can, so let the reader judge who is correct.

    Aristarkos

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    Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos View Post
    Where in the above quote of yours is the great commission? It isn't there. I'll say it again show me one verse where whoever baptized whoever like Mat. 28:19 says. That's all I'm asking and none of you can, so let the reader judge who is correct.

    Aristarkos
    That scripture is more a detailing of what making disciples is all about. In other words, execution of the commandment to "GO!"
    Slug1--out

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    Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos View Post
    Where in the above quote of yours is the great commission? It isn't there. I'll say it again show me one verse where whoever baptized whoever like Mat. 28:19 says. That's all I'm asking and none of you can, so let the reader judge who is correct.

    Aristarkos
    Baptism isn't the main theme of Mathew 28. Making disciples is. Baptism is a component of making them, not the main ingredient in making them. You're hung up on the baptism component when it isn't the main thing but a pat of it.

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    Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos View Post
    Where in the above quote of yours is the great commission? It isn't there. I'll say it again show me one verse where whoever baptized whoever like Mat. 28:19 says. That's all I'm asking and none of you can, so let the reader judge who is correct.

    Aristarkos
    If Jesus to you to do something once, would you do it , or not ?

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    Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

    edit... If Jesus asked you to do something once, would you do it ?

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