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Thread: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

  1. #46
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    Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos View Post
    So again I say, show ONE verse where anybody baptized anyone like Mat. 28:19 says, is that to much to ask?

    Aristarkos
    And you cannot show ONE verse with details of baptism that prove that they disobeyed Christ and did not baptize in the prescribed manner.

    I showed you were all the instances spoken of in the New Testament say "he was baptized" or "she was baptized" or "they were baptized".

    Since no details are given we can [a] assume they disobeyed Christ or [b] assume they obeyed Christ.

    I think that they obeyed him.
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  2. #47
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    Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by jayne View Post
    And you cannot show ONE verse with details of baptism that prove that they disobeyed Christ and did not baptize in the prescribed manner.

    I showed you were all the instances spoken of in the New Testament say "he was baptized" or "she was baptized" or "they were baptized".

    Since no details are given we can [a] assume they disobeyed Christ or [b] assume they obeyed Christ.

    I think that they obeyed him.
    You think so? Mat. 3:6 And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins , this is water baptism and water baptism is what was required to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

    You said: Around 3,000 baptized on the Day of Pentecost with no detail.

    Pentecost is a Jewish feast already selebrated in the O.T. by Israel see for example Exo. 23:19 on the day of pentecost in Acts there wasn't a single uncircumcised gentile present.

    You said: Philip baptized an unknown number of men and women in Acts 8 with no detail.

    Until Acts 10 when Peter was sent to Cornelius not a single uncircumcised gentile was baptized.

    You said: Philip baptized the Ethiopian eunuch. Acts 8 with no detail except they both "went down to the water].

    This is baptizing for the repentense of sin, not the great commission. The Ethiopian eunuch was either Jewish or a proselyte.

    You said: Saul [Paul] was baptized with no detail. Acts 9

    No detail is here water baptism, this was required to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

    You said: Unknown amount of Gentiles commanded to be baptized by Peter. No details. Acts 10

    In v. 37 it says ... after the baptism which John preached this is John the Baptist who baptized in water, why? Mar. 1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins , this is not the great commission.

    You said: Lydia and her entire household baptized with no detail given. Acts 16

    In v. 13 we read And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side ... and in v. 15 she is baptized in water, this is not the great commission which was never given to Paul.

    You said: The Philippian jailer and all his household baptized with no detail given. Acts 16.

    We read in v. 33 ... and washed their stripes; and was baptized ... , so water baptism.

    Like I said, assuming things isn't helping anybody.

    Aristarkos

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    Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

    I'm talking about believer's baptism - an act done after salvation.

    Not John's baptism.
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    Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by jayne View Post
    I'm talking about believer's baptism - an act done after salvation.

    Not John's baptism.
    And according to you believer's baptism is?

    Aristarkos

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    Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos View Post
    And according to you believer's baptism is?

    Aristarkos
    Oh, NOT according to me.

    According to the Bible. It's when a person has heard the gospel of the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ and has submitted to him and is baptized.

    It began in Acts chapter 2 after Peter's preaching of that said gospel.
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    Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by jayne View Post
    Oh, NOT according to me.

    According to the Bible. It's when a person has heard the gospel of the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ and has submitted to him and is baptized.

    It began in Acts chapter 2 after Peter's preaching of that said gospel.
    How can this start in Acts 2 when there wasn't a gentile present? In v. 5 it says And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven , those of the diaspora who were in Jerusalem to celebrate the Jewish feast of firstfruits, or pentecost.

    About baptism a lot of confusion has arisen obviously, and being baptized after being saved is one of them. There are three types of baptism:

    1. Water baptism like in the Gospels and the first 10 chapters of the Acts.
    2. Baptism with holy spirit like in Acts 2.
    3. Baptism in His death.

    Mark 16:16 is in contradiction with your statement: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned , so being baptized is not a requirement to be saved, believing is.

    Aristarkos

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    Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

    I never said that baptism was a requirement to be saved. It isn't a requirement. It's done after you are saved as Jesus told the disciples to do. And they did.

    I don't understand the Gentile thing. Did I miss something?
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    Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by jayne View Post
    I never said that baptism was a requirement to be saved. It isn't a requirement. It's done after you are saved as Jesus told the disciples to do. And they did.

    I don't understand the Gentile thing. Did I miss something?
    By answering that, we go way of topic and I don't think you want that. So we just disagree on this, BTW believer's baptism isn't a Scriptural statement and you do not supply a quote.

    Aristarkos

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    Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos View Post
    The disciples were Jews, Israelite, not gentiles from the church. Again, neither you nor Pb come up with a single Scripture all Pb said was:
    A... that command was given to disciples FOR the Body of Christ. Any who become a disciple, are under that command.

    You posted the verse, I don't have too again (but I will)... so maybe you should support the command instead of using a bunch of strained gnat opinions that you have, in effort to speak against the command?

    So, I will post the verse again:

    And Jesus came and said to them, 'All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age

    Teaching them to observe ALL that I have commanded YOU.

    Your statement defies this command because you are saying that NOT all is to be taught, not all is to be observed, and when it comes to this command, STOP.

    That command instructs that disciples teach the disciples under them (equipping them) and THEN those disciples are to GO. These disciples continue to teach new disciples and then the new disciples GO, etc, etc, etc!
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


  10. #55
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    Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    Has everything to do with the execution of the Great Commission. Did Jesus "not" inform the disciples to hang out together while they waited for the coming of the Holy Spirit and that they are NOT to execute any of the Great Commission until AFTER, the Holy Spirit came?
    It really does have everything to do with it Slug. And even after the Holy Spirit came the Apostle's still didn't fully grasp it until later on. It often makes me ponder on the idea of Paul's calling to the gentiles being a result of them refusing to leave Jerusalem. No, it's not in the bible , but perhaps my imagination.

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    Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pbminimum View Post
    It really does have everything to do with it Slug. And even after the Holy Spirit came the Apostle's still didn't fully grasp it until later on. It often makes me ponder on the idea of Paul's calling to the gentiles being a result of them refusing to leave Jerusalem. No, it's not in the bible , but perhaps my imagination.
    Also, the evidence that they WERE not going to all the nations in obedience. They all got comfortable in Jerusalem and only witnessed there, so what happens to cause them to actually GO out and witness to the world... persecution against the church actually caused the church to FOLLOW the mandate of that command to GO???

    Why is it that these days, the persecution comes from within the very church that is to GO... seems there is much effort to thwart the church from GOing, as commanded
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


  12. #57
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    Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos View Post
    So again I say, show ONE verse where anybody baptized anyone like Mat. 28:19 says, is that to much to ask?
    Aristarkos
    Read Acts 11 Aristarkos. Focus in on when persecution began. Why did that happen ? The apostles were huddled up in Jerusalem and not going to the ends of the earth. The persecution that came did exactly that. I believe you are getting hung up on a title made by man ( that is accurate ) called "The Great Commission" instead of the explicit command of Christ to "Make Disciples" and teach them to make disciples.

    I would ask you this - Is making disciples who make disciples ( baptism not necessarily the focus here ) a biblical concept ? Does Mathew 28 explain that we , as the church, are to instigate disciple making as commanded by God ?

    This is all it boils down to - disciple making.

    Is it good ?

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    Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    Also, the evidence that they WERE not going to all the nations in obedience. They all got comfortable in Jerusalem and only witnessed there, so what happens to cause them to actually GO out and witness to the world... persecution against the church actually caused the church to FOLLOW the mandate of that command to GO???

    Why is it that these days, the persecution comes from within the very church that is to GO... seems there is much effort to thwart the church from GOing, as commanded
    I have racked my brain on that question bro.

    I know the power of God and it resides in discipleship, among other places. But Romans 1/16 agrees with the power of God in the going. The Gospel is the power of God unto Salvation.

    I'm currently struggling mightily in my counties church association to activate the body to go. Facing some of the same arguments I'm seeing on here. It's ludicrous. What is the danger of not going ? Continued death. We had an event over the weekend to activate the churches in our county to go out and practice evangelism and discipling others in it. I'm going to give the numbers off of memory , so they aren't exact but close.

    We had 10 churches represented with about 135 people attending.
    We shared the Gospel with our city around 65 times.
    There were over 30 decision made for re-dedication or salvation.
    13 people prated to receive Christ.

    Not one instance of anyone being rude. I'm thinking out of the 80 plus people / groups of people who were approached only one person said they didn't care to hear what was being said.

    Clearly .... CLEARLY.... people are looking for hope. If the church is not the source of bringing the only hope there is to the world, then who is ? All of the redundant theological argument against such activation is beyond my ability to tolerate or endure. And it's also the reason that the church has failed epically to reach the lost.

    Honestly , to me , anyone who tries to build a doctrinal argument against advancing the Gospel through the church ( aka the Great Commission ) is deceived. Not necessarily lost... just tricked by the enemy. I know that what I'm saying is true. Someone would have a better chance at putting out hell with a squirt gun than convincing me otherwise.

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    Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristarkos View Post
    Again, neither you nor Pb come up with a single Scripture
    Me being me, I have to go find some scriptures that show us that ALL disciples are to spread the message of the Gospel (fulfill the Great Commission)

    Here is one for now...

    2 Cor 5:18 All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. 20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

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    Re: Is infant baptism from the Bible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pbminimum View Post
    I have racked my brain on that question bro.

    I know the power of God and it resides in discipleship, among other places. But Romans 1/16 agrees with the power of God in the going. The Gospel is the power of God unto Salvation.

    I'm currently struggling mightily in my counties church association to activate the body to go. Facing some of the same arguments I'm seeing on here. It's ludicrous. What is the danger of not going ? Continued death. We had an event over the weekend to activate the churches in our county to go out and practice evangelism and discipling others in it. I'm going to give the numbers off of memory , so they aren't exact but close.

    We had 10 churches represented with about 135 people attending.
    We shared the Gospel with our city around 65 times.
    There were over 30 decision made for re-dedication or salvation.
    13 people prated to receive Christ.

    Not one instance of anyone being rude. I'm thinking out of the 80 plus people / groups of people who were approached only one person said they didn't care to hear what was being said.

    Clearly .... CLEARLY.... people are looking for hope. If the church is not the source of bringing the only hope there is to the world, then who is ? All of the redundant theological argument against such activation is beyond my ability to tolerate or endure. And it's also the reason that the church has failed epically to reach the lost.

    Honestly , to me , anyone who tries to build a doctrinal argument against advancing the Gospel through the church ( aka the Great Commission ) is deceived. Not necessarily lost... just tricked by the enemy. I know that what I'm saying is true. Someone would have a better chance at putting out hell with a squirt gun than convincing me otherwise.
    I can sum up the problem in a few words...

    Evangelism is only "practiced" and no disciple making, is truly executed. Meaning, only half the work is being done resulting in evangelistic effort that HAS no power.
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


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