Page 5 of 17 FirstFirst 12345678910111213141516 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 250

Thread: Like a Thief in the Night

  1. #61
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    14,291
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Like a Thief in the Night

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Will the 42 months of the AC and the 1260 days of the 2Ws run concurrently or consecutively?
    The two prophets die 3.5 days before Christ returns and the beasts reign ending so there are two thoughts on it.

    1. The 42 months and 1260 days are concurrent, the last 3.5 days of the 1260 days are an indirect part of the two prophets total ministry.
    2. The 1260 days begins 3.5 days before the 42 months, and then the 1260 days end with the death of the two prophets giving the Ac/beast 3.5 days to reign after the deaths.

    I find either one to be possible. It all depends on whether the last 3.5 days is considered part of the ministry or not.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    9,954
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Like a Thief in the Night

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Will the 42 months of the AC and the 1260 days of the 2Ws run concurrently or consecutively?
    The 42 months is AFTER the 2W.
    Not sure how that ties into the thread.

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    7,980
    Blog Entries
    13

    Re: Like a Thief in the Night

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    The 42 months is AFTER the 2W.
    Not sure how that ties into the thread.
    I meant it as a general question.

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    7,980
    Blog Entries
    13

    Re: Like a Thief in the Night

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    The two prophets die 3.5 days before Christ returns and the beasts reign ending so there are two thoughts on it.

    1. The 42 months and 1260 days are concurrent, the last 3.5 days of the 1260 days are an indirect part of the two prophets total ministry.
    2. The 1260 days begins 3.5 days before the 42 months, and then the 1260 days end with the death of the two prophets giving the Ac/beast 3.5 days to reign after the deaths.

    I find either one to be possible. It all depends on whether the last 3.5 days is considered part of the ministry or not.
    Post #62 posits that they run consecutively and I reckon that makes more sense. If they are concurrent, that would place the 2Ws on earth when the wrath of the Lamb occurs (Rev 19) and that can't be right.

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    9,954
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Like a Thief in the Night

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Post #62 posits that they run consecutively and I reckon that makes more sense. If they are concurrent, that would place the 2Ws on earth when the wrath of the Lamb occurs (Rev 19) and that can't be right.
    My view also means that the beast doesn't sit in the temple of God and declare himself as god UNTIL he has defeated them, which also makes sense, as how could he claim to be god and have them contradicting him all the time. How could he enter the temple when Rev 11 shows the temple inner court is NOT given over DURING the time of the 2W?
    Basically the NEED for it to be concurrent is based on the thought that the 7th trumpet is the Last Trumpet. If the 7th Trumpet IS the Last Trumpet and therefore the moment when Jesus returns, THEN it means the reign of the beast has to occur BEFORE that Trumpet which makes it concurrent with the 2W.

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    7,980
    Blog Entries
    13

    Re: Like a Thief in the Night

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    My view also means that the beast doesn't sit in the temple of God and declare himself as god UNTIL he has defeated them, which also makes sense, as how could he claim to be god and have them contradicting him all the time. How could he enter the temple when Rev 11 shows the temple inner court is NOT given over DURING the time of the 2W?
    Basically the NEED for it to be concurrent is based on the thought that the 7th trumpet is the Last Trumpet. If the 7th Trumpet IS the Last Trumpet and therefore the moment when Jesus returns, THEN it means the reign of the beast has to occur BEFORE that Trumpet which makes it concurrent with the 2W.
    I couldn't agree more. Thanks for the new insight. Hope ewq1938 agrees that this is a better interpretation...

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    14,291
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Like a Thief in the Night

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Post #62 posits that they run consecutively and I reckon that makes more sense. If they are concurrent, that would place the 2Ws on earth when the wrath of the Lamb occurs (Rev 19) and that can't be right.
    No, they go to heaven before the 7th trump sounds so they would not be on the Earth at that time.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    14,291
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Like a Thief in the Night

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    I couldn't agree more. Thanks for the new insight. Hope ewq1938 agrees that this is a better interpretation...
    There's no time left for the beast to rule 42 months after the two prophets are killed:

    Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
    Rev 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
    Rev 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
    Rev 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
    Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
    Rev 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
    Rev 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

    It says quickly.

    G5035
    ταχύ
    tachu
    takh-oo'
    Neuter singular of G5036 (as adverb); shortly, that is, without delay, soon, or (by surprise) suddenly, or (by implication of ease) readily: - lightly, quickly.


    Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

    So as you can see it's impossible for the beast to reign 42 months are the two prophets rise into heaven. Christ returns immediately and all kingdoms are his.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  9. #69
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    7,980
    Blog Entries
    13

    Re: Like a Thief in the Night

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    No, they go to heaven before the 7th trump sounds so they would not be on the Earth at that time.
    When reckon ye the 7th trump call will occur exactly?

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    7,980
    Blog Entries
    13

    Re: Like a Thief in the Night

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    There's no time left for the beast to rule 42 months after the two prophets are killed:

    Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
    Rev 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
    Rev 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
    Rev 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
    Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
    Rev 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
    Rev 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

    It says quickly.

    G5035
    ταχύ
    tachu
    takh-oo'
    Neuter singular of G5036 (as adverb); shortly, that is, without delay, soon, or (by surprise) suddenly, or (by implication of ease) readily: - lightly, quickly.


    Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

    So as you can see it's impossible for the beast to reign 42 months are the two prophets rise into heaven. Christ returns immediately and all kingdoms are his.
    How do you respond to FHG's post #65? I would like to hear your views on his comments.

    And the passages you quoted above still doesn't prove that the 2Ws and the AC will have supremacy on earth at the same time. For example, concerning the 2Ws, God said:

    Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
    Rev 11:5 5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.


    Regarding the AC, scripture says:

    Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

    From the above, it makes no sense to argue that the 2W's and the AC will have supreme powers at the same time. Secondly, Rev 12:6 records that the woman (Israel) fled into the desert for 1260 days. In Rev 11:3 we are told that the 2Ws ministry will last 1260 days. Please explain how these work out? The same number of days that the 2Ws ministry will last!

    So do you believe that the 2Ws will preach when Israel is not in Jerusalem?

  11. #71
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    9,954
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Like a Thief in the Night

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    There's no time left for the beast to rule 42 months after the two prophets are killed:

    Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
    Rev 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
    Rev 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
    Rev 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
    Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
    Rev 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
    Rev 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

    It says quickly.

    G5035
    ταχύ
    tachu
    takh-oo'
    Neuter singular of G5036 (as adverb); shortly, that is, without delay, soon, or (by surprise) suddenly, or (by implication of ease) readily: - lightly, quickly.

    Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

    So as you can see it's impossible for the beast to reign 42 months are the two prophets rise into heaven. Christ returns immediately and all kingdoms are his.
    Just to answer this SUPPOSED problem.

    Your basic claim is that the MOMENT the 7th trumpet is blown is the SAME moment that the kingdoms of the world become the kingdoms of our Lord.

    However what we note is that the trumpet being blown leads INTO the events happening. IOW the kingdoms becoming His happens AFTER the 7th Trumpet is blown.
    You see, as I understand it, this 7th trumpet being blown is heralding Jesus being crowned King of Kings and Lord of Lords, and when He stops being at the right hand of the Father, and instead sits on the throne to rule. However this rule STARTS with a clear out of heaven.

    Rev 12:10* And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, “Now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God.*
    Rev 12:11* And they have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, for they loved not their lives even unto death.*
    Rev 12:12* Therefore, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to you, O earth and sea, for the devil has come down to you in great wrath, because he knows that his time is short!”

    Notice in verse 10 it states "NOW..." the kingdom has come, which means it COINCIDES with the 7th Trumpet. The SAME aspect of the Kingdom of our God coming.
    However I think you would agree that this speaks of the START of the 42 months of the reign of the AC, and NOT the END.
    Same phrase as that you claim is the END, and yet clearly it is NOT.

    Additionally in verse 12 we are told about the WOE which comes. This is the THIRD woe. It is DIRECTLY related to the woe for the earth and sea, which is what we read here:
    Rev 8:13* Then I looked, and I heard an eagle crying with a loud voice as it flew directly overhead, “Woe, woe, woe to those who dwell on the earth, at the blasts of the other trumpets that the three angels are about to blow!”

    The third woe is Satan coming to earth and the rule of the AC.

  12. #72
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    14,291
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Like a Thief in the Night

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    When reckon ye the 7th trump call will occur exactly?
    Immediately after verses 12-13:

    Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
    Rev 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
    Rev 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
    Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  13. #73
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    14,291
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Like a Thief in the Night

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    How do you respond to FHG's post #65? I would like to hear your views on his comments.

    And the passages you quoted above still doesn't prove that the 2Ws and the AC will have supremacy on earth at the same time. For example, concerning the 2Ws, God said:

    Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
    Rev 11:5 5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.


    Regarding the AC, scripture says:

    Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
    The answer is the 2w but in the end they are killed.

    From the above, it makes no sense to argue that the 2W's and the AC will have supreme powers at the same time.
    It makes perfect sense plus I already proved there is no room for 42 months after the two prophets rise into heaven. A few things happen and then immediately after Christ returns so this whole idea that the 42 months start after the 2w is impossible according to the text.



    Secondly, Rev 12:6 records that the woman (Israel) fled into the desert for 1260 days. In Rev 11:3 we are told that the 2Ws ministry will last 1260 days. Please explain how these work out? The same number of days that the 2Ws ministry will last!
    Rev 12 happens before the trib begins so they are different time periods despite being the same length of time.

    So do you believe that the 2Ws will preach when Israel is not in Jerusalem?
    I don't know what "Israel is not in Jerusalem?" is. If you think there is a time when no Jews are in Jerusalem I would highly doubt that.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  14. #74
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    14,291
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Like a Thief in the Night

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    My view also means that the beast doesn't sit in the temple of God and declare himself as god UNTIL he has defeated them, which also makes sense, as how could he claim to be god and have them contradicting him all the time.
    How? Hardly anyone will believe the 2w. Most will be deceived by the AC.

    How could he enter the temple when Rev 11 shows the temple inner court is NOT given over DURING the time of the 2W?
    It doesn't say that. They measure one part, and don't measure another part but nothing there says the AC or gentiles cannot enter during the 42 months since the measuring is done by John before the 2w ministry or the 42 months even begin.


    Basically the NEED for it to be concurrent is based on the thought that the 7th trumpet is the Last Trumpet. If the 7th Trumpet IS the Last Trumpet and therefore the moment when Jesus returns, THEN it means the reign of the beast has to occur BEFORE that Trumpet which makes it concurrent with the 2W.

    As I explained, the same day the two prophets rise into heaven is the same day Christ returns so it is impossible for the beast to reign after that day let alone for 42 more months.

    Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
    Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
    Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
    Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

    The beasts reign is over not just beginning.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  15. #75
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Pacific NW, USA
    Posts
    11,278

    Re: Like a Thief in the Night

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Post #62 posits that they run consecutively and I reckon that makes more sense. If they are concurrent, that would place the 2Ws on earth when the wrath of the Lamb occurs (Rev 19) and that can't be right.
    I believe it can be right. There is only a single 3.5 year period mentioned in the book of Daniel, with respect to the Reign of Antichrist. And I believe the book of Revelation refers to this single period of time. I don't believe it has a thing to do with Daniel's 70 Weeks, but it is a period mirrored by the reign of Antiochus 4, which is also mentioned in the book of Daniel.

    I believe the 2 Witnesses are killed, finally, by Antichrist at the end of his 1260 day reign. But they lay in the streets of Jerusalem for another 3 days before they are raised up again.

    The Coming of Christ follows an indefinite period of time *after* the 2 Witnesses are raised up and ascend into heaven. Antichrist's 1260 day reign seems to refer to a time when Antichrist holds sway over the entire earth, militarily. And at the end of this period there may be a revolt against his rule by the world outside of Europe. The world is then drawn into a conflict, initiated at Armageddon.

    The duration of this period, in which the world draws near to war, is an indefinite period, but follows the 1260 days of Antichrist's dominance. I see no conflict with the death of the 2 Witnesses taking place at the end of the 1260 days, and with Christ's 2nd Coming taking place soon after, following an indefinite period of time?

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 2 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 2 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. As A Thief In The Night, The Real Meaning
    By DavePeace in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: Nov 27th 2018, 04:40 PM
  2. as a thief in the night
    By Caleb in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 61
    Last Post: Jan 11th 2011, 12:25 PM
  3. Thief at our church last night..
    By moonglow in forum Christian Fellowship
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: Nov 22nd 2010, 08:19 PM
  4. As a thief in the night
    By markedward in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 49
    Last Post: Jul 18th 2009, 06:34 AM
  5. a thief in the night
    By markedward in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: Feb 17th 2009, 08:55 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •