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Thread: Like a Thief in the Night

  1. #31
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    Re: Like a Thief in the Night

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Yes, what I meant to say is that I see no reason to separate 1260 days, 42 months, and 3.5 years into separate periods of time.
    Pretty much agree but there is a slight difference between the 42 months and 1260 days. The two prophets die, yet the beast is still in power for those 3.5 days so either the two time periods overlap by 3.5 days or the last 3.5 days is still considered part of their ministry of 1260 days which is possible but seems unlikely since they are dead.

    For me, they all look back to the 3.5 years of Antichrist's Reign in Dan 7. Trying to figure out *why* God distinguished these into days, months, and years is another thing. Good question!
    It's day vs. night, good vs. evil, so days are used for God's people but months (moon) for God's enemies. That's why it was weird for me to see you speak of the two witnesses and say they had 42 months.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  2. #32
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    Re: Like a Thief in the Night

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Yes, different activities associated with different descriptions of the *same* time period (as I see it). But yes, the different activities are what's significant. So if I'm right, the different activities associated with the differently described periods should naturally overlap. If not, then I would be wrong.
    As the Two Witnesses are witnessing BEFORE the AC starts His reign of 42 months, so there is no overlap.

  3. #33
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    Re: Like a Thief in the Night

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    As the Two Witnesses are witnessing BEFORE the AC starts His reign of 42 months, so there is no overlap.
    I see the 2 Witnesses are prophecying *during* Antichrist's reign, and dying at the end of the 3.5 year period. Apparently the Antichrist/Beast is unable to defeat them during the time of their testimony.

    1) Jerusalem is "trampled" during this period of time.
    2) The miracles of the 2 Witnesses are like Elijah, who stood against Baal, and Moses, who stood against Egypt. They seem to be resisting Antichrist.
    3) The inhabitants of the earth, who likely had chosen to follow the Antichrist, had already been "tormented" by the 2 Witnesses.
    4) The final Woe takes place after the death of the 2 Witnesses, which is the actual end of the age, the coming of Christ's Kingdom.

    The Beast is mentioned as originating from the Abyss, but is not specifically said to arise *after* the reign of the Antichrist.

  4. #34
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    Re: Like a Thief in the Night

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    I see the 2 Witnesses are prophecying *during* Antichrist's reign, and dying at the end of the 3.5 year period. Apparently the Antichrist/Beast is unable to defeat them during the time of their testimony.

    1) Jerusalem is "trampled" during this period of time.
    2) The miracles of the 2 Witnesses are like Elijah, who stood against Baal, and Moses, who stood against Egypt. They seem to be resisting Antichrist.
    3) The inhabitants of the earth, who likely had chosen to follow the Antichrist, had already been "tormented" by the 2 Witnesses.
    4) The final Woe takes place after the death of the 2 Witnesses, which is the actual end of the age, the coming of Christ's Kingdom.

    The Beast is mentioned as originating from the Abyss, but is not specifically said to arise *after* the reign of the Antichrist.
    Lots of problems with this view.
    1. The temple is NOT trampled whilst the 2W are prophesying. Yet the AC sits in the Temple declaring himself as God. CANNOT be BOTH correct.
    2. The AC is not able to START His reign UNTIL they are defeated.
    3. No one is "following" the AC at this time. Why would they when the 2W have ALL the power?
    4. No the coming of Christ's kingdom is NOT a woe. We are told what the woe is in Rev 12:
    Rev 12:12* Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

    It is ONLY AFTER the 2W are killed that the AC can declare himself as god in the temple.
    When the AC is reigning there is NO safe place, and certainly NOT in Jerusalem.

    The 2W are with the 6th Trumpet, but there next follows ALL the events of the 7th Trumpet, which includes the 7 vials.
    The seals are followed by the Trumpets which are followed by the Vials. There is NO overlap between them, unless you wish to claim the 7 Trumpets are part of the 7th seal, and the 7 vials are part of the 7th Trumpet - which makes no real difference.

  5. #35
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    Re: Like a Thief in the Night

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Lots of problems with this view.
    1. The temple is NOT trampled whilst the 2W are prophesying. Yet the AC sits in the Temple declaring himself as God. CANNOT be BOTH correct.
    I believe your view of the temple is incorrect. The trampling of the temple is symbolic of Christianity in Israel during Antichrist's reign, just as Ezekiel's temple represented believing Israel using the symbolism of OT law.

    The sitting in the temple of God, by Antichrist, is a symbolic way of expressing his own deity. By sitting in the *place* of God he is declaring himself to be God. Since there is no longer any temple of God, in a literal sense, this is pure symbolism.

    There is this constant chatter about the rebuilding of the Jewish temple. That temple was condemned and destroyed 2000 years ago, never to be built again. The only temple that matters, since that time, is the temple of Christ and the Church.

    The initial building of the tabernacle, and the initial building of the temple of Solomon, were done with much Scriptural anticipation, and with much regalia. But this constant drumming about a future construction of an OT temple has scarcely any Scripture to rely upon, and that is in itself questionable. What we do know is that the OT law was fulfilled in NT theology. And this appears to prohibit any legitimate restoration of a physical temple. If a temple is built for Antichrist, it certainly won't be a legitimate Jewish temple.

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory
    2. The AC is not able to START His reign UNTIL they are defeated.
    You are assuming this. It is *not* stated as such. As I pointed out, there is every reason to believe that the ministry of the 2 Witnesses, for 3.5 years, had been in opposition to Antichrist's reign. Their power enabled them to resist a concerted effort to defeat them, until their ministry was finished.

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory
    3. No one is "following" the AC at this time. Why would they when the 2W have ALL the power?
    Why did the Egyptians follow Pharaoh when Moses had all the power?

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory
    4. No the coming of Christ's kingdom is NOT a woe. We are told what the woe is in Rev 12:
    Rev 12:12* Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
    That "woe" is in a different context. In context, the 3rd Woe of ch. 11 is absolutely the destruction taking place as the Kingdom of Christ comes.

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory
    It is ONLY AFTER the 2W are killed that the AC can declare himself as god in the temple.
    When the AC is reigning there is NO safe place, and certainly NOT in Jerusalem.
    I'm not even sure that Antichrist reigns in Jerusalem. He simply declares himself to be God, and reigns over Europe. His attack on Jerusalem takes place after he has declared himself to be God. In fact, his attack on the 2 Witnesses and on Jerusalem is his attempt to confirm his Deity.

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory
    The 2W are with the 6th Trumpet, but there next follows ALL the events of the 7th Trumpet, which includes the 7 vials.
    The seals are followed by the Trumpets which are followed by the Vials. There is NO overlap between them, unless you wish to claim the 7 Trumpets are part of the 7th seal, and the 7 vials are part of the 7th Trumpet - which makes no real difference.
    You are confusing 2 separate visions. The 7 trumpets announce the coming of the Kingdom, and show the associated judgments heralding this event. The 7 vials do the same thing in another way, showing in particular the approaching Battle of Armageddon.

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