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Thread: Like a Thief in the Night

  1. #241
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    Re: Like a Thief in the Night

    Quote Originally Posted by journeyman View Post
    It's funny how Jesus compared his coming to a thief in the night. People watch to stop a thief. Believers watch to welcome the Lord.
    Analogy and allegory are powerful tools that bring the Word of God home and easy to understand.

  2. #242
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    Re: Like a Thief in the Night

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Analogy and allegory are powerful tools that bring the Word of God home and easy to understand.
    But if something described can actually happen, then to allegorize it, is a mistake.
    I suppose that you and many others want to allegorize Zephaniah 1:1-18 and all those prophesies that describe the sudden and shocking Day of the Lord's fiery wrath;

    Zephaniah 1:4-18 I shall stretch out My hand over Judah, over all that live in Jerusalem. On the Day of the Lord’s sacrifice, I shall wipe out all traces of idol worship I will punish all those complacent people. All who commit crimes of violence and fraud will fall with a great crash. The great Day of the Lord is near and coming fast - His Day of wrath and distress onto the peoples. Their blood and guts will pour out like dung upon the ground and nothing can save them from the fire of His judgement. He will make a sudden and terrible end to all who live in the holy Land. Amos 2:1-5, Isaiah 22:14, Jeremiah 10:18, Jeremiah 25:30-33, Deuteronomy 32:34-43, Matthew 21:41-43

    In other Middle Eastern countries:
    Ezekiel 30:2-5 Wail! Alas for the Day, the Day of the Lord is near. A Day of reckoning for the nations. A Day of disaster for Egypt; they will fall by the sword of the Lord’s slaughter. All the Arab nations, the Africans, Libyans and peoples of that area will be killed along with Egypt. Zephaniah 2:12, Isaiah 29:8-12, Amos 1:2-15

    Isaiah 34:5-8 The sword of the Lord will appear in the sky and descend in judgement upon Edom, onto a people doomed for destruction. His sword is sated with blood, for on His Day of vengeance, the Lord has a sacrifice in Bozrah and a slaughter in Edom. Isaiah 63:1-6, Ezekiel 35:1-15, Jeremiah 49:1-39
    Edom; a metaphor for all the ungodly peoples.
    Bozrah, means – glad tidings in Hebrew, but is also the name given to a sheepfold, so it refers to where the Lord’s faithful Christian people live, scattered among the nations.

    Acts 2:19 I will show wonders in the sky above and signs on the earth: blood, fire and smoke…
    This terrible disaster that will strike the earth is not unprecedented. There has been events that have caused mass extinctions and Noah’s Flood destroyed the entire antediluvian world.
    The Lord’s Day of wrath, Revelation 6:12-17, will be ‘the Rod of Iron’, as He punishes the nations, Jeremiah 9:25-26, Ezekiel 32:20-32, and our world will never be the same again.

    Isaiah 30:15…In calm detachment lies your safety, your strength in quiet trust. Isaiah 51:6
    We who trust the Lord and keep His commandments have the promises of His protection on the Day and then the great prophecies of His faithful people gathering and settling into all of the holy Land will come to pass. Isaiah 62:1-5, Isaiah 56:1-8, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Jeremiah 31, Zechariah 9:14-18

  3. #243

    Re: Like a Thief in the Night

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Analogy and allegory are powerful tools that bring the Word of God home and easy to understand.
    They are when they're seen in Christ.

  4. #244

    Re: Like a Thief in the Night

    Quote Originally Posted by journeyman View Post
    It's funny how Jesus compared his coming to a thief in the night. People watch to stop a thief. Believers watch to welcome the Lord.
    only if you expect the thief to come sometime in the night , otherwise one is caught in prepared and sleeping....it's surprising when you generally talk to an every day Christian ....a lot of them don't know we're waiting for him to return . A lot of them don't know we must all stand before his judgement seat and give an account of our lives, a lot of them don't know the difference between the Old Testament and the new, a lot of them don't know of and have never heard the gospel of the kingdom of God.... It's almost like the teachers aren't really teaching them what the bible says ....but instead are teaching special revolutionary understanding to increase your wealth , or be healed through taking communion..how God will never judge sin because he loves mankind.

  5. #245

    Re: Like a Thief in the Night

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower1977 View Post
    only if you expect the thief to come sometime in the night , otherwise one is caught in prepared and sleeping....it's surprising when you generally talk to an every day Christian ....a lot of them don't know we're waiting for him to return . A lot of them don't know we must all stand before his judgement seat and give an account of our lives, a lot of them don't know the difference between the Old Testament and the new, a lot of them don't know of and have never heard the gospel of the kingdom of God.... It's almost like the teachers aren't really teaching them what the bible says ....but instead are teaching special revolutionary understanding to increase your wealth , or be healed through taking communion..how God will never judge sin because he loves mankind.
    I think people only understand the principle of sowing and reaping when it comes to vegetables. I think Jesus comes like a thief because when he comes, he's judging what has already been done.

    There's an old song (can't remember the name of it)
    by the group Petra with a line that goes, "good things come to them that wait, not to those who hesitate, so hurry up and wait upon the Lord."

    That really struck me....wait, as in serve, not wait, as in waiting my turn.

  6. #246
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    Cool Re: Like a Thief in the Night

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower1977 View Post
    only if you expect the thief to come sometime in the night , otherwise one is caught in prepared and sleeping....it's surprising when you generally talk to an every day Christian ....a lot of them don't know we're waiting for him to return . A lot of them don't know we must all stand before his judgement seat and give an account of our lives, a lot of them don't know the difference between the Old Testament and the new, a lot of them don't know of and have never heard the gospel of the kingdom of God.... It's almost like the teachers aren't really teaching them what the bible says ....but instead are teaching special revolutionary understanding to increase your wealth , or be healed through taking communion..how God will never judge sin because he loves mankind.
    You should talk about not know the OT from the NT. Paul said the law of God (Mosaic Law) was holy, just and good. Rom. 7:12 "Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good."

    Yet you snatch up the Beatitudes and make them some kind of new law that provides the fruits of the spirit. You say we are to be judged at Christ's return. Yet scripture tell us the we are being judged today. 1 Pet. 4:17 "For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?" Why don't you quit judging God's called and do a little Bible study.
    John 15:17 "These things I command you, that ye love one another."

  7. #247
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    Re: Like a Thief in the Night

    Quote Originally Posted by journeyman View Post
    Zech.14 says when Jesus stands on Mt. Olivet, living waters will flow from Jerusalem. This is symbolic of the Holy Spirit being given at Pentecost. If you can't acknowledge this, there's no point in discussing the rest.
    And when Ezekiel 47 also describes living waters flowing from Jerusalem, making some parts of the Dead Sea come alive again, what does the symbolism represent?

    This water flows toward the eastern region and goes down into the Arabah,[b] where it enters the Dead Sea. When it empties into the sea, the salty water there becomes fresh. 9 Swarms of living creatures will live wherever the river flows. There will be large numbers of fish, because this water flows there and makes the salt water fresh; so where the river flows everything will live. 10 Fishermen will stand along the shore; from En Gedi to En Eglaim there will be places for spreading nets. The fish will be of many kinds—like the fish of the Mediterranean Sea. 11 But the swamps and marshes will not become fresh; they will be left for salt. 12 Fruit trees of all kinds will grow on both banks of the river. Their leaves will not wither, nor will their fruit fail. Every month they will bear fruit, because the water from the sanctuary flows to them. Their fruit will serve for food and their leaves for healing.”

  8. #248

    Re: Like a Thief in the Night

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    And when Ezekiel 47 also describes living waters flowing from Jerusalem, making some parts of the Dead Sea come alive again, what does the symbolism represent?

    This water flows toward the eastern region and goes down into the Arabah,[b] where it enters the Dead Sea. When it empties into the sea, the salty water there becomes fresh. 9 Swarms of living creatures will live wherever the river flows. There will be large numbers of fish, because this water flows there and makes the salt water fresh; so where the river flows everything will live. 10 Fishermen will stand along the shore; from En Gedi to En Eglaim there will be places for spreading nets. The fish will be of many kinds—like the fish of the Mediterranean Sea. 11 But the swamps and marshes will not become fresh; they will be left for salt. 12 Fruit trees of all kinds will grow on both banks of the river. Their leaves will not wither, nor will their fruit fail. Every month they will bear fruit, because the water from the sanctuary flows to them. Their fruit will serve for food and their leaves for healing.”
    The symbolism represents the work of the Holy Spirit coming from the Temple of God, who is Jesus and Christ in us, as

    Eze.47:12 is parallel to Rev.22:2. The fruit trees are the believers (Psa.1:3).

    Eze.47 is equal to Rev.22:11, in that whoever will not receive Jesus in this world (Eze.47:11) is not made new in the next world. Those who are touched by (or sensitive to and receive) his Spirit are made new.

    Jesus doesn't give his Spirit to make fishing in the Middle East better. Eze.47:10 = Mt.13:47. Jesus said,

    Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men. Mt.4:19

    He's showing how the Holy Spirit progressively takes control of our minds (Eze.47:1-5). I'm not sure why all the geographical boundries, but when we consider that believers are referred to as trees, a temple, a city, etc., we are the land the Spirit of Jesus touches.

  9. #249
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    Re: Like a Thief in the Night

    Quote Originally Posted by journeyman View Post
    The symbolism represents the work of the Holy Spirit coming from the Temple of God, who is Jesus and Christ in us, as

    Eze.47:12 is parallel to Rev.22:2. The fruit trees are the believers (Psa.1:3).

    Eze.47 is equal to Rev.22:11, in that whoever will not receive Jesus in this world (Eze.47:11) is not made new in the next world. Those who are touched by (or sensitive to and receive) his Spirit are made new.

    Jesus doesn't give his Spirit to make fishing in the Middle East better. Eze.47:10 = Mt.13:47. Jesus said,

    Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men. Mt.4:19

    He's showing how the Holy Spirit progressively takes control of our minds (Eze.47:1-5). I'm not sure why all the geographical boundries, but when we consider that believers are referred to as trees, a temple, a city, etc., we are the land the Spirit of Jesus touches.
    Although I appreciate your emphasis on the first advent, I believe there is too much detail in the entire renewed temple/renewed territories descriptions in Ezekiel 40-48 to ascribe all that detail to symbols surrounding the first advent.

    In the part I quoted you, actual places were mentioned, there are tribal allotments, there are temple measurements as well, 9 entire chapters filled with detail.

    There is so much detail, I can only see a literal fulfillment of those chapters after the DOTL, we have vastly different methodologies in this regard. And if the detail of Ezekiel 40-48 is literal, so is the matching detail of Zechariah 14 literal.

  10. #250

    Re: Like a Thief in the Night

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    Although I appreciate your emphasis on the first advent, I believe there is too much detail in the entire renewed temple/renewed territories descriptions in Ezekiel 40-48 to ascribe all that detail to symbols surrounding the first advent.

    In the part I quoted you, actual places were mentioned, there are tribal allotments, there are temple measurements as well, 9 entire chapters filled with detail.

    There is so much detail, I can only see a literal fulfillment of those chapters after the DOTL, we have vastly different methodologies in this regard. And if the detail of Ezekiel 40-48 is literal, so is the matching detail of Zechariah 14 literal.
    Well, the Temple itself and the City of God may also be thought of (and in fact are regarded by Judaism) as geographical boundries, but we know they are symbolic of believers. Where the subject of what the Messiah will do when he comes, Christianity has reverted back to what Judaism teaches and that is a disaster.

    And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither Psa.1:3

    In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. Rev.22:2

    A wholesome tongue is a tree of life Pro.15:4

    the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. Jn.6:63

    It's Jesus who gave himself for our healing and who works in us to heal others.

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