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Thread: Like a Thief in the Night

  1. #1

    Like a Thief in the Night

    Martin Luther declared in the year 1520, that the papacy is the seat of the antichrist. Of course the popes didn't like that accusation, and the Jesuits' interpretation about the arrival of the antichrist shifted that event into the future, for to shift the focus away from the catholic "church".

    It doesn't make sense that our saviour Yeshua (Jesus; derived from the Greek: Iēsous) arrives after the appearance of a special antichrist, who comes in the future, otherwise Yeshua (Jesus) can't arrive almost totally unexpected, like a thief in the night. The apostle John wrote, that the spirit of the antichrist was in the world already, when the Gospels were written. So the next event must be the second coming of our saviour Yeshua (Jesus).

    Matthew 25:1-13 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

  2. #2

    Re: Like a Thief in the Night

    Originally posted by David ben Jesse
    It doesn't make sense that our saviour Yeshua (Jesus; derived from the Greek: Iēsous) arrives after the appearance of a special antichrist, who comes in the future, otherwise Yeshua (Jesus) can't arrive almost totally unexpected, like a thief in the night. The apostle John wrote, that the spirit of the antichrist was in the world already, when the Gospels were written.
    The gospel had to be preached throughout the world to the gentiles. Then it would be distorted by false teaching, as it was among the Jewish people before us.

    When Paul speaks of a "falling away" and "strong delusion" in 2Thes.2, he means within the church. He isn't saying, "People will depart from the congregation". He's saying, "The congregation will depart from the truth ".

    By and large, congregations today aren't even preaching the gospel Jesus taught.

  3. #3

    Re: Like a Thief in the Night

    Thanks journeyman, I understand your statement to make ourselves ready for Yeshuas (Jesus) return. (Please forgive my poor English.)

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    Re: Like a Thief in the Night

    Quote Originally Posted by David ben Jesse View Post
    Martin Luther declared in the year 1520, that the papacy is the seat of the antichrist. Of course the popes didn't like that accusation, and the Jesuits' interpretation about the arrival of the antichrist shifted that event into the future, for to shift the focus away from the catholic "church".

    It doesn't make sense that our saviour Yeshua (Jesus; derived from the Greek: Iēsous) arrives after the appearance of a special antichrist, who comes in the future, otherwise Yeshua (Jesus) can't arrive almost totally unexpected, like a thief in the night. The apostle John wrote, that the spirit of the antichrist was in the world already, when the Gospels were written. So the next event must be the second coming of our saviour Yeshua (Jesus).

    Matthew 25:1-13 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
    But that day doesn't come as a thief.

    1 Thess 5:4
    But you are not in darkness, brothers, for that day to surprise you like a thief.


    That passage from Matt 25 is a continuation of Matt 24. The 10 virgins & 'the kingdom of heaven' refers to the start of the 7th Trumpet & the start of the kingdom of heaven.

    The 'kingdom of heaven & days of Noah start on the same day.
    The 'days of Noah' start on the '2nd month, 17th day' which is 17 Iyyar (Genesis 7:11).

    Subtract 1260 days for the 2 witnesses (Zerubabbel & Joshua/ Yeshua) of Revelation 11:3-4 (3 And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.”
    4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth.


    and then subtract 3.5 days for the 2 witnesses to lie dead (Revelation 11:9 For three and a half days some from the peoples and tribes and languages and nations will gaze at their dead bodies and refuse to let them be placed in a tomb,)


    and you will oftentimes (maybe all of the time, haven't checked yet) get 24 Kislev, which is when the 2 witnesses are given power:

    Haggai 2:18-23
    18 Consider from this day onward, from the twenty-fourth day of the ninth month. Since the day that the foundation of the Lord's temple was laid, consider: 19 Is the seed yet in the barn? Indeed, the vine, the fig tree, the pomegranate, and the olive tree have yielded nothing. But from this day on I will bless you.”

    20 The word of the Lord came a second time to Haggai on the twenty-fourth day of the month, 21 “Speak to Zerubbabel, governor of Judah, saying, I am about to shake the heavens and the earth, 22 and to overthrow the throne of kingdoms. I am about to destroy the strength of the kingdoms of the nations, and overthrow the chariots and their riders. And the horses and their riders shall go down, every one by the sword of his brother. 23 On that day, declares the Lord of hosts, I will take you, O Zerubbabel my servant, the son of Shealtiel, declares the Lord, and make you like a[c] signet ring, for I have chosen you, declares the Lord of hosts.”

    In other words, the 6th Trumpet/ 2nd woe of the 1260 days of the 2 witnesses starts exactly 1260 days + 3.5 days before the 7th Trumpet/ 17 Iyyar.

    Elijah comes before the 1st Trumpet, & Zerubabbel & Joshua are the 2 'anointed ones' per Zechariah 3 & 4 who are 'blessed' on 24 Kislev.

    of course, we still need the year, and I go over the most logical choice here:
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Cxx...ew?usp=sharing

    Basically, Daniel 9:24 says that it takes '70 '7' to anoint a holy place, which can be read as '77' years - meaning the 77th anniversary of Jerusalem's desolations of May 14, 2025 (77 solar years) (which is also the start of 17 Iyyar, the 1st day of Noah.)

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    Re: Like a Thief in the Night

    Quote Originally Posted by journeyman View Post
    The gospel had to be preached throughout the world to the gentiles. Then it would be distorted by false teaching, as it was among the Jewish people before us.

    When Paul speaks of a "falling away" and "strong delusion" in 2Thes.2, he means within the church. He isn't saying, "People will depart from the congregation". He's saying, "The congregation will depart from the truth ".

    By and large, congregations today aren't even preaching the gospel Jesus taught.
    How very true...................

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    Re: Like a Thief in the Night

    Quote Originally Posted by David ben Jesse View Post
    Martin Luther declared in the year 1520, that the papacy is the seat of the antichrist. Of course the popes didn't like that accusation, and the Jesuits' interpretation about the arrival of the antichrist shifted that event into the future, for to shift the focus away from the catholic "church".

    It doesn't make sense that our saviour Yeshua (Jesus; derived from the Greek: Iēsous) arrives after the appearance of a special antichrist, who comes in the future, otherwise Yeshua (Jesus) can't arrive almost totally unexpected, like a thief in the night. The apostle John wrote, that the spirit of the antichrist was in the world already, when the Gospels were written. So the next event must be the second coming of our saviour Yeshua (Jesus).

    Matthew 25:1-13 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
    Nice post you are right about the next event

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    Re: Like a Thief in the Night

    Quote Originally Posted by David ben Jesse View Post
    Martin Luther declared in the year 1520, that the papacy is the seat of the antichrist. Of course the popes didn't like that accusation, and the Jesuits' interpretation about the arrival of the antichrist shifted that event into the future, for to shift the focus away from the catholic "church".

    It doesn't make sense that our saviour Yeshua (Jesus; derived from the Greek: Iēsous) arrives after the appearance of a special antichrist, who comes in the future, otherwise Yeshua (Jesus) can't arrive almost totally unexpected, like a thief in the night. The apostle John wrote, that the spirit of the antichrist was in the world already, when the Gospels were written. So the next event must be the second coming of our saviour Yeshua (Jesus).
    As Paul states that the antichrist comes next (read 2 Thess and not just 1 Thess) and you find your claim invalid.
    Also as elsewhere noted in 1 Thess 5 we are told that the DAY of the Lord will not be a surprise for us - yes it will be a Day for us, but Night in which the Thief comes for those who are NOT IN Christ.
    We must remember that these are pictures given us to help us understand what it will be like for different people.
    We are looking for salvation, but they will claim safety and find destruction.
    BOTH are true, but we are NOT them and they are NOT us.

  8. #8

    Re: Like a Thief in the Night

    Paul preached a different Gospel.

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    Re: Like a Thief in the Night

    Quote Originally Posted by David ben Jesse View Post
    Paul preached a different Gospel.
    Nope, Paul preached about a Thief in the night - read 1 Thess 5:2
    Paul preached a Gospel which is the Gospel we preach, that Martin Luther preached.

  10. #10

    Re: Like a Thief in the Night

    I disagree with You.
    Although Martin Luther made a "good" job with the translation of the Bible, he can't be an example for a good human being, due to his hate towards the Jews.

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    Re: Like a Thief in the Night

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    As Paul states that the antichrist comes next (read 2 Thess and not just 1 Thess) and you find your claim invalid.
    Also as elsewhere noted in 1 Thess 5 we are told that the DAY of the Lord will not be a surprise for us - yes it will be a Day for us, but Night in which the Thief comes for those who are NOT IN Christ.
    We must remember that these are pictures given us to help us understand what it will be like for different people.
    We are looking for salvation, but they will claim safety and find destruction.
    BOTH are true, but we are NOT them and they are NOT us.
    The antichrist or actually an antichrist was next in paul's life but not ours

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    Re: Like a Thief in the Night

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    The antichrist or actually an antichrist was next in paul's life but not ours
    Don;t confuse antichrists with the antichrist.

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    Re: Like a Thief in the Night

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Don;t confuse antichrists with the antichrist.
    There is no “the antichrist” ever mentioned in scripture only the spirit of antichrist which was in many people

    John only uses the word antichrist in his epistles and they all describe apostate Israel

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    Re: Like a Thief in the Night

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Don;t confuse antichrists with the antichrist.
    Sorry but I still can’t edit I meant to add don’t confuse the beast with the antichrist

    There is a reason John used the term antichrist in his epistles and the term beast in revelation

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    Re: Like a Thief in the Night

    Quote Originally Posted by David ben Jesse View Post
    Martin Luther declared in the year 1520, that the papacy is the seat of the antichrist. Of course the popes didn't like that accusation, and the Jesuits' interpretation about the arrival of the antichrist shifted that event into the future, for to shift the focus away from the catholic "church".

    It doesn't make sense that our saviour Yeshua (Jesus; derived from the Greek: Iēsous) arrives after the appearance of a special antichrist, who comes in the future, otherwise Yeshua (Jesus) can't arrive almost totally unexpected, like a thief in the night. The apostle John wrote, that the spirit of the antichrist was in the world already, when the Gospels were written. So the next event must be the second coming of our saviour Yeshua (Jesus).

    Matthew 25:1-13 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
    The 5 foolish virgins represented unbelieving Israel, who reject Jesus as Messiah. The 5 wise virgins represented believing Israel, who embrace Jesus as Messiah. That condition existed in Israel at the time Jesus gave this parable. Half of Israel rejected Jesus, and half embraced him. Ultimately, I think it was a far fewer number in Israel who actually remained Christians after Jesus' death.

    The point for Jesus was not the lack of ability to time Jesus' coming, but rather, the lack of expectation that would exist in Israel among those who rejected him as Messiah. If they didn't accept him as Messiah, and believe him to be dead, they certainly won't expect him to come back!

    Similar conditions will exist at the end of the age. Israel will have unbelievers, as well as believers. Many will not be ready in the time of Antichrist. They will not expect Jesus to come!

    So expectation has to do with belief in Jesus--more than just not knowing the day and hour of his coming. Of course, I don't think anybody will actually know the day and hour, except God Himself.

    So in the reign of Antichrist, there is the matter of discerning whether he is the Antichrist and how long he has reigned? All we really know is that after 1260 days there will be another 3.5 days in which the 2 Prophets will lie in the streets of Jerusalem.

    And then there will be a drawn-out period of time in which Antichrist draws the nations in towards Armageddon. This will be *after* Antichrist's 1260 days of reign. Nobody will know the exact day the battle will begin, nor the exact time Jesus will return. But it will be after the Tribulation!

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