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Thread: The length of the GREAT tribulation

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    The length of the GREAT tribulation

    I have been reading other threads in which incorrect information is being passed on the length of this period. Many equates the GT the time in which a beast is on the earth for 42 months Rev 13. The error stems from rightly understanding "what" is the GT. The GT is NOT a time of the wrath of Satan it is a time of the wrath of God. A period in which will never be seen like this again. To nail down the timing we look to Matthew 24 sequence of events and specifically the AOD.

    Matt 24
    15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

    So what does Daniel say about this event?

    Dan 12
    11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
    12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.
    13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

    So Daniel states that on the 1290th day the AOD occurs. Thus Matt 24:15 occurs at day 1290. Also Daniel states there are only 45 days left afterwards till day 1335 and the end. So then Matt 24:16 till verse 30 are only 45 days. Thus the GT can be no longer than 45 days.

    It is my belief the GT is the wrath of God contained in the vial judgements which are probably poured out in the last week.

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    Re: The length of the GREAT tribulation

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    I have been reading other threads in which incorrect information is being passed on the length of this period. Many equates the GT the time in which a beast is on the earth for 42 months Rev 13. The error stems from rightly understanding "what" is the GT. The GT is NOT a time of the wrath of Satan it is a time of the wrath of God. A period in which will never be seen like this again. To nail down the timing we look to Matthew 24 sequence of events and specifically the AOD.

    Matt 24
    15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

    So what does Daniel say about this event?

    Dan 12
    11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
    12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.
    13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

    So Daniel states that on the 1290th day the AOD occurs. Thus Matt 24:15 occurs at day 1290. Also Daniel states there are only 45 days left afterwards till day 1335 and the end. So then Matt 24:16 till verse 30 are only 45 days. Thus the GT can be no longer than 45 days.

    It is my belief the GT is the wrath of God contained in the vial judgements which are probably poured out in the last week.
    You say other people are wrong about the duration of the Great Tribulation.
    But your estimation is in error by your statement that on Daniel's 1290th day is when the Abomination of Desolation occurs. You misread that verse: it says that FROM the time of the cessation of sacrifices and the AoD set up, there shall be 1290 days.
    I see the 1290 days as the same as the 1260 days, or 42 months of Revelation 13:5, with the extra 30 days to allow for the Temple to be cleansed after Jesus Returns on the 1260th day.

    The Gt comprises of all the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls. With them, the wrath of God is completed. Revelation 15:1

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    Re: The length of the GREAT tribulation

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    I have been reading other threads in which incorrect information is being passed on the length of this period. Many equates the GT the time in which a beast is on the earth for 42 months Rev 13. The error stems from rightly understanding "what" is the GT. The GT is NOT a time of the wrath of Satan it is a time of the wrath of God. A period in which will never be seen like this again. To nail down the timing we look to Matthew 24 sequence of events and specifically the AOD.

    Matt 24
    15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

    So what does Daniel say about this event?

    Dan 12
    11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
    12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.
    13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

    So Daniel states that on the 1290th day the AOD occurs. Thus Matt 24:15 occurs at day 1290. Also Daniel states there are only 45 days left afterwards till day 1335 and the end. So then Matt 24:16 till verse 30 are only 45 days. Thus the GT can be no longer than 45 days.

    It is my belief the GT is the wrath of God contained in the vial judgements which are probably poured out in the last week.
    In all other references to this Time from the Abomination of Desolation, the time given is 42 months, half a week for years, 1260 days and "time, times and half a time". Added to this, the Types show the same. God wrath on Israel at Elijah's time caused no rain for three and a half years ad Christ's ministry which ended in His taking God's just deserts for sin and sins upon Himself was three and a half years.

    Daniel 12:11 I understand from the grammar to mean thus. According to both Daniel 9 and Matthew 24, the Abomination of Desolation is the trigger for God's wrath on all the earth. For the Beast to command ALL worship, the day he sets Himself up in the Holy Place with his idol-effigy must also be the day he banishes the daily oblation. The daily oblation belongs to a Covenant with ANOTHER GOD - Jehovah. So Daniel 12:11 is not giving the TIME BETWEEN the two events. It is mentioning both events as happening together and then making a promise to anyone who survives 1290 days after that. Let us take an example: Daniel 12:11 as it stands in the Hebrew which 49 of the best language specialists of their time, and who no agenda all agreed to:

    "And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

    It is NOT:

    "And BETWEEN the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh IS desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

    The FROM in the Hebrew indicates a starting point and the "AND" is a copulative and cumulative conjunction. That means that it shows TWO events and JOINS the two events, making them belong together. Example, "FROM the serving of the food AND the saying of grace there will be one hour to finish the meal." Or, "FROM the filling of the tank AND the starting of the engine, the generator will run for six days."

    Now, I am the first to admit that I do not know what event will take place after 1290 days from the Abomination of Desolation. It is 30 days, or one month AFTER the end of the Great Tribulation. The prophets indicate a number of events that occur straight after the Great Tribulation.
    1. Our Lord Jesus visits Edom and exacts terrible vengeance on those who despised their birthright and aide and abetted the enemies of Israel. He returns from Bozrah covered in blood (Isa.34:6, 63:1; Jer.49:22).
    2. Our Lord will resurrect and gather the dead and dispersed of Israel (Matt.24:31)
    3. Our Lord will judge Israel (Dan.12:1-2)
    4. Our Lord will judge the survivors of the Nations (Matt.25:31-46)

    But we must stick to who Daniel is addressing - Daniel's People. The words of inspired Daniel MUST, in the first instance, pertain to Israel. The way I see it is that there are four major events at the end of the Great Tribulation that effect Israel;
    1. Jerusalem is saved
    2. Armageddon is fought
    3. Israel is resurrected and gathered to Canaan
    4. Israel is judged

    Could it be that ...
    1. Armageddon is fought 1260 days after the Abomination of Desolation
    2. Israel's resurrection and gathering by angels is complete by 1290 days - 30 days after Armageddon
    3. Israel's judgement is complete 1335 days after the Abomination of Desolation

    My reasoning is that verse 13, which states, "But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days", is full of innuendo.
    1. Daniel is told that he will "rest" - that is, he will die before these things take place
    2. Daniel will "stand" means he will be resurrected
    3. Daniel will "stand IN HIS LOT". His part or portion or piece of land of the Land of Canaan is reserved for him

    Daniel will "stand in resurrection" by 1290 days for he is "blessed", and is an Israelite, and Daniel will inherit a "lot" because he was (i) circumcised, and (ii) faithful in the trials of Israel's captivity.

    But the bottom line must be that these prophecies are for Israel, and NOT the Church, and that they are "SEALED TILL THE TIME OF THE END". It is no wonder that we must speculate, for the exact events of 1290 and 1335 days are NOT GIVEN.

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    Re: The length of the GREAT tribulation

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    "And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

    It is NOT:

    "And BETWEEN the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh IS desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
    Hi Walls,

    This may be correct HOWEVER this still does not deny the fact that the GT is AFTER the 1290 days either way.

    Now, I am the first to admit that I do not know what event will take place after 1290 days from the Abomination of Desolation.
    Well if you do not see the AOD occurring at the 1290 day period then it would be the scattering of the holy people occurring at 1290 days.

    7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.


    Now of importance do we also see this "scattering" in Matt 24? Yes. Then verse 16 would be at the end and or after the 1290 days.

    16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

    However if you are correct we would have the start of the 1290 days in verse 15 and then the end of these days verse 16? Is there really a 1290 day gap between the two? It would be hard to imagine. Again the GT still occurs after the 1290 either way. So the GT is still contained between 1290 and 1335.

    Start of 1290

    15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

    End of 1290

    16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

    21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

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    Re: The length of the GREAT tribulation

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    But your estimation is in error by your statement that on Daniel's 1290th day is when the Abomination of Desolation occurs. You misread that verse: it says that FROM the time of the cessation of sacrifices and the AoD set up, there shall be 1290 days.
    Perhaps. HOWEVER this still does not forbid the GT to occur after the 1290 days.

    Couple of observations.....

    Can the GT really even be a long period of time, Can a period which was not since the beginning of the world span 1290 days? How can the events from verse 16-20 start day 1 and span 1290+ days? Do they flee for 1290 days, do they remain on the housetop for 1290 days? Are there those with child for 1290 days? Does the winter occur for 1290 days? See the point? This is a compressed time frame.

    15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
    16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
    17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
    18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
    19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
    20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
    21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

    The Gt comprises of all the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls. With them, the wrath of God is completed. Revelation 15:1
    This is the error. It never directly says the trumpets are God's wrath. The wrath of God is only the bowls/vials.

    And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

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    Re: The length of the GREAT tribulation

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Hi Walls,

    This may be correct HOWEVER this still does not deny the fact that the GT is AFTER the 1290 days either way.
    I'm afraid that it can't AFTER 1290 days. Matthew 24:15-21 says that the Great Tribulation will start "THEN" - that is, immediately after the Abomination of Desolation. In fact, so soon after it that stopping between the rooftop and the the door of one's house will cause one to be overtaken by it. These verses say that the Great Tribulation will start so quickly after the Abomination of Desolation that a 1-minute delay could be the difference between life and death. The pregnant woman won't make it to the mountains, nor will a woman carrying a baby on her breast. The man who hasn't got his sleeping gear for the mountains with him will die of cold if the Abomination of Desolation is seen in winter. That is, the time between the Abomination of Desolation and the onset of the great Tribulation is probably less than 1290 seconds.

    15 "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
    16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
    17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
    18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
    19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
    20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
    21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."


    Well if you do not see the AOD occurring at the 1290 day period then it would be the scattering of the holy people occurring at 1290 days.

    7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.


    Now of importance do we also see this "scattering" in Matt 24? Yes. Then verse 16 would be at the end and or after the 1290 days.

    16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

    However if you are correct we would have the start of the 1290 days in verse 15 and then the end of these days verse 16? Is there really a 1290 day gap between the two? It would be hard to imagine. Again the GT still occurs after the 1290 either way. So the GT is still contained between 1290 and 1335.

    Start of 1290

    15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

    End of 1290

    16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

    21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
    But verse 7 gives the time - "a time, times and half a time". That equals 42 months or 1260 days. And it is not "a time, times and half a time" to start the Great Tribulation. It is the TIME ...
    1. to "FINISH" all that Daniel prophesied
    2. to scatter the POWER of holy people

    And then, when Daniel asks for an explanation he IS REFUSED AND TOLD TO SEAL THESE WORDS. God gave Daniel many visions and always He gave the explanation. But now suddenly God refuses the meaning till the time when it happens. That is, you and I can speculate all we want, but what happens at 1290 days after the Abomination of Desolation, and 1335 days IS A SECRET till it happens. That is why I admit not knowing what happens, and admit to speculation based solely on the following verse about resurrection and the Israelite gaining his "lot".

    I cannot tell what happens, but I can examine your thesis in the light of what we do have - and I find it unsustainable. Then again, like all things Biblical, I could have missed something.

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    Re: The length of the GREAT tribulation

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    Matthew 24:15-21 says that the Great Tribulation will start "THEN" - that is, immediately after the Abomination of Desolation.

    In fact, so soon after it that stopping between the rooftop and the door of one's house will cause one to be overtaken by it. These verses say that the Great Tribulation will start so quickly after the Abomination of Desolation that a 1-minute delay could be the difference between life and death. The pregnant woman won't make it to the mountains, nor will a woman carrying a baby on her breast. The man who hasn't got his sleeping gear for the mountains with him will die of cold if the Abomination of Desolation is seen in winter. That is, the time between the Abomination of Desolation and the onset of the great Tribulation is probably less than 1290 seconds.
    I agree but that's the point.

    Can the GT really even be a long period of time, Can a period which was not since the beginning of the world span 1290 days? How can the events from verse 16-20 start day 1 and span 1290+ days? Do they flee for 1290 days, do they remain on the housetop for 1290 days? Are there those with child for 1290 days? Does the winter occur for 1290 days? See the point? This is a compressed time frame.


    Well if you do not see the AOD occurring at the 1290 day period then it would be the scattering of the holy people occurring at 1290 days.
    Do you see that the scattering of Judah happens right after the AOD. This is what Daniel says occurs AFTER the 1290. and then in Matt 24 we see the GT.

    7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half (1260/1290); and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.


    Here are the holy people being scattered after the AOD which Daniels say occurs after the time, times and a half.

    15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
    16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

    but what happens at 1290 days after the Abomination of Desolation, and 1335 days IS A SECRET till it happens.
    Is it not the scattering of the holy people?

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    Re: The length of the GREAT tribulation

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    I have been reading other threads in which incorrect information is being passed on the length of this period. Many equates the GT the time in which a beast is on the earth for 42 months Rev 13. The error stems from rightly understanding "what" is the GT. The GT is NOT a time of the wrath of Satan it is a time of the wrath of God. A period in which will never be seen like this again. To nail down the timing we look to Matthew 24 sequence of events and specifically the AOD.

    Matt 24
    15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

    So what does Daniel say about this event?

    Dan 12
    11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
    12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.
    13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

    So Daniel states that on the 1290th day the AOD occurs. Thus Matt 24:15 occurs at day 1290. Also Daniel states there are only 45 days left afterwards till day 1335 and the end. So then Matt 24:16 till verse 30 are only 45 days. Thus the GT can be no longer than 45 days.

    It is my belief the GT is the wrath of God contained in the vial judgements which are probably poured out in the last week.
    The length of the 'great tribulation' is exactly 1335 days + 490 days ("70 weeks to finish the transgression" Dan 9:24). And it starts with the abomination idol.

    The first 45 days of the 1335 days is great tribulation upon everyone ('no flesh would be spared unless the days were shortened' Matt 24:22). But for the elect's sake, the great tribulation is shortened - for the elect only. The elect are gathered by the messengers/ 'angels', not whisked away.

    22And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.

    23 Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand. 26So, if they say to you, ‘Look, he is in the wilderness,’ do not go out. If they say, ‘Look, he is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.

    29“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

    After it has been 'cut short for the elect', the unfaithful receive the 7 punishments of Lev 26:18 And if in spite of this you will not listen to me, then I will discipline you again sevenfold for your sins, in the 7 Trumpets. The wrath was announced at the 6th Seal. Why do they receive 7 more punishments? They are following the false christs of Matt 24:23.

    the 7 trumpets & 7 bowls of wrath is all wrath. But because there is no 'whisked away' rapture, faithful Christians & the unfaithful have to still experience time. The faithful have to wait around for the unfaithful to go through the great tribulation.

    When Rev 17:8 says The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to rise from the bottomless pit and go to destruction. And the dwellers on earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will marvel to see the beast, because it was and is not and is to come. this means that there are 2 abominations. The 'was' portion kicks off with an abomination and is the start of the 1335 days with sudden destruction at the winter day before a sabbath (maybe a few days later on Christmas Day/ 10th of Tevet). The beast's 'was' portion ends at the 1335th day. 266 days (pregnancy term related to Rev 12's birthing messiah) into the 490 days is the end of the 2 witnesses 1260 days. (the end of the 490 days lands on the end of Hannukah)

    The beast that is 'coming up from the abyss' is the 2nd part (compare with Rev 11:7 And when they have finished their testimony, the beast that rises from the bottomless pit will make war on them and conquer them and kill them, 8 and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city that symbolically is called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified. 9 For three and a half days some from the peoples and tribes and languages and nations will gaze at their dead bodies and refuse to let them be placed in a tomb,)

    2 gatherings (at the 1st & then at the end of 6th Trumpet/ at the 'sign of the son of man' of Feb 11, 2021 cross sign & the spiritual sign of Rev 12 occurring 266 days before the end of the 2 witnesses 1260 days) means 2 possible times to be tempted into the beast. At each temptation point, there is a false prophet to lure people into the beast.

    After 3.5 days dead, then starts the 7th Trumpet on 17 Iyyar, the start of the 'days of Noah' flood (see Matt 25:1-12). Here is where the beast that is 'coming up from the abyss', start of the Rev 13 1260 days of the beast from sea & earth/ the 2nd time around for the beast and is what people generally call the '2nd half of the 7 year trib', & the 'great tribulation'.

    But this notion of the '2nd half of the 7 years' being the 'great tribulation' just ain't so. What people call the '2nd half' really is the start of the 7th Trumpet/ 7 bowls of wrath - the 2nd chance to be tempted into the beast. What people call the '2nd half' is the 2nd portion of the 'beast that was, is not, yet is', the beast that 'is' & 'comes up and kills the 2 witnesses'.

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    Re: The length of the GREAT tribulation

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    I have been reading other threads in which incorrect information is being passed on the length of this period. Many equates the GT the time in which a beast is on the earth for 42 months Rev 13. The error stems from rightly understanding "what" is the GT. The GT is NOT a time of the wrath of Satan it is a time of the wrath of God. A period in which will never be seen like this again. To nail down the timing we look to Matthew 24 sequence of events and specifically the AOD.
    And herein lies your error. The GT is NOT the time of the wrath of God. The GT as quoted from Matt 24 IS about the time of ATTACKS on the saints of God, which certainly is NOT being DONE by God.
    This is clarified in rev 7 where John is SHOWN those saints who have gone through the Great Tribulation!
    Now God's wrath is ALSO poured out at this time, and so it becomes a time of great distress for EVERYBODY, but the TRIALS and TRIBULATIONS is about what the saints go through as specifically enacted by the False Prophet and the Beast.

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    Re: The length of the GREAT tribulation

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    The GT as quoted from Matt 24 IS about the time of ATTACKS on the saints of God,
    This is clarified in rev 7 where John is SHOWN those saints who have gone through the Great Tribulation!
    The great tribulation mentioned in rev 7 is not the same great tribulation mentioned in Matt 24. Why?

    1. The GT Matt 24 is a time which was never seen before or after.
    2. The GT Matt 24 ends with immediate darkness and the 2nd coming.

    29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

    The GT in Rev 7 occurs much earlier than the GT in Matt 24 as there are still the 7 trumpets to sound encompassing the three woes not immediate darkness. Furthermore, are we to expect the GT which was never before or after occurred prior to these judgements? Making the 7 trumpets and three woes pale in comparison.


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    Re: The length of the GREAT tribulation

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    I agree but that's the point.

    Can the GT really even be a long period of time, Can a period which was not since the beginning of the world span 1290 days? How can the events from verse 16-20 start day 1 and span 1290+ days? Do they flee for 1290 days, do they remain on the housetop for 1290 days? Are there those with child for 1290 days? Does the winter occur for 1290 days? See the point? This is a compressed time frame.



    Do you see that the scattering of Judah happens right after the AOD. This is what Daniel says occurs AFTER the 1290. and then in Matt 24 we see the GT.

    7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half (1260/1290); and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.


    Here are the holy people being scattered after the AOD which Daniels say occurs after the time, times and a half.

    15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
    16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:



    Is it not the scattering of the holy people?
    You present difficulties with your answers. Although I have maintained that the Great Tribulation lasts 1260 days, and that with proofs, you answer as if I said 1290 days. So, if you can allow, I'm going to sit that one out.

    What I would like to comment on is the "Holy People". Here again, since the thread began, you have not defined them. "Holy" means "separate". And then, without defining them, you give twist. Daniel says that it will take a time, times and halt a time to scatter THE POWER of the holy people. But you say the people are scattered after a time, times and half a time. I can't judge your motive for such changes, but if we want to discuss God's Word we had better be accurate with it - or leave discussion off. Typos and mistakes are part of our human existence, and I know I've made my fair share of them, but until we agree on the text under discussion, we really shouldn't discuss.

    Who are "the Holy People", and what is their POWER? I have my ideas, but am interested to hear yours.

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    Re: The length of the GREAT tribulation

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    What I would like to comment on is the "Holy People". Here again, since the thread began, you have not defined them. "Holy" means "separate". And then, without defining them, you give twist. Daniel says that it will take a time, times and halt a time to scatter THE POWER of the holy people. But you say the people are scattered after a time, times and half a time.
    Semantics. At the end of the time, times, and half the scattering will be completed. Sorry if saying "after" confused you.

    Who are "the Holy People", and what is their POWER? I have my ideas, but am interested to hear yours.
    The holy people are Israel, in this case it is the remnant of Israel which have keep the commandments and have the testimony of Jesus.

    Deut 28
    9 The Lord shall establish thee an holy people unto himself, as he hath sworn unto thee, if thou shalt keep the commandments of the Lord thy God, and walk in his ways.

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    Re: The length of the GREAT tribulation

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    The great tribulation mentioned in rev 7 is not the same great tribulation mentioned in Matt 24. Why?

    1. The GT Matt 24 is a time which was never seen before or after.
    2. The GT Matt 24 ends with immediate darkness and the 2nd coming.

    29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

    The GT in Rev 7 occurs much earlier than the GT in Matt 24 as there are still the 7 trumpets to sound encompassing the three woes not immediate darkness. Furthermore, are we to expect the GT which was never before or after occurred prior to these judgements? Making the 7 trumpets and three woes pale in comparison.
    Nope, the GT in Rev 7 IS the GT in Matt 24.
    The GT of Rev 7 occurs following the 7th Trumpet.
    Rev 7 speaks of the START of the END, and the END of the END.
    The END is not just the GT but the 6 trumpets which precede it.

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    Re: The length of the GREAT tribulation

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Semantics. At the end of the time, times, and half the scattering will be completed. Sorry if saying "after" confused you.



    The holy people are Israel, in this case it is the remnant of Israel which have keep the commandments and have the testimony of Jesus.

    Deut 28
    9 The Lord shall establish thee an holy people unto himself, as he hath sworn unto thee, if thou shalt keep the commandments of the Lord thy God, and walk in his ways.
    Bravo. We are in agreement.

    According to Romans 9 and 11 the Lord has kept Himself a Remnant of Israel. This Remnant is needed because it is the condition for the restoration of Israel (Deuteronomy 30:1-5). But you will notice that Moses predicted, and admonished them, to turn back to what he was expounding on "that day". On "That Day" Moses was expounding the Law. The Israeli Remnant is seen in Revelation Chapter 7 where they are sealed to avoid the mechanisms of the Great Tribulation hurting them (Rev.9:4), they are again seen in Revelation Chapter 11:13 and 12:17 as those "who keep the commandments of God". They survive the Great Tribulation and give God His excuse, and satisfy God's legal requirement of Deuteronomy 30:1-5.

    Israel are NOT a "holy People". "Holy" means "separate". Israel do not "separate" themselves from the world, from lawlessness and finally do not separate themselves from the Beast. But the Remnant do. They are Daniels' People who are "holy". Their POWER is in keeping the Law and speaking out against the Beast. But as the Beast is all-powerful on earth, he must finally scatter the Remnant's power. They must flee to the wilderness instead of being effective in Jerusalem. Even the Two Witnesses are overcome by the Beast. At this every moment God ends the Great Tribulation because "of the elect's sake". He was about to lose His legal ground for restoring Israel and so our Lord Jesus, Son of God and Son of David bursts out of the clouds over Mount Olives to save Jerusalem and deflect the Beast's attention to military matters at Jezreel (Armageddon).

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    Re: The length of the GREAT tribulation

    The GT is exactly 42 months.

    Rev 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

    Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
    Rev 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
    Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
    Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
    Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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