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Thread: Jesus and John the Baptist

  1. #1

    Jesus and John the Baptist

    I watched Jesus - His Life from History Channel and found something a bit confusing. They treat the relationship between Jesus and John the Baptist as if they were strangers and even the Bible kind of ignores such a relationship. Weren't Mary and Elizabeth cousins? Isn't it somewhat likely that Jesus and John were quite familiar with one another?

    On a second unrelated note, I looked up all of the events of the chronology of the crucifixion of Jesus - the timetable. I have found that this week has become more real and Jesus a bit closer because at various points of the past few days, I would envision was Jesus was going through. It is one thing to realize that Jesus died on the cross, but it is quite another as I went through this afternoon thinking how Jesus would have been on the cross as if it were today. Quite an enlightening experience.

  2. #2
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    Re: Jesus and John the Baptist

    John the Baptist and Jesus were related by their mothers. But they did not grow up in the same place. Jesus lived in Egypt for a long time after he was born. Even when Joseph brought his family back, they didn't live near John the Baptist's family.

    This might help.

    John 1:29 - 34 [Testimony of John the Baptist]

    "The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! This is he of whom I said, ‘After me comes a man who ranks before me, because he was before me.’ I myself did not know him, but for this purpose I came baptizing with water, that he might be revealed to Israel.” And John bore witness: “I saw the Spirit descend from heaven like a dove, and it remained on him. I myself did not know him, but he who sent me to baptize with water said to me, ‘He on whom you see the Spirit descend and remain, this is he who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’ And I have seen and have borne witness that this is the Son of God.”

    Was he saying he'd never met Jesus or was he saying he didn't know who the Messiah was until God told him.

    Either way - they couldn't have known each other too well living so far apart.
    ".....it's your nickel"

  3. #3

    Re: Jesus and John the Baptist

    I watched that program until they said Jesus was a disciple of John. They theorized that Jesus developed a notion that he had a greater mission than John and parted ways from him. And these are the scholars who are teaching Christian theology today. Scary

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    Re: Jesus and John the Baptist

    Quote Originally Posted by Servant1981 View Post
    I watched Jesus - His Life from History Channel and found something a bit confusing. They treat the relationship between Jesus and John the Baptist as if they were strangers and even the Bible kind of ignores such a relationship. Weren't Mary and Elizabeth cousins? Isn't it somewhat likely that Jesus and John were quite familiar with one another?

    On a second unrelated note, I looked up all of the events of the chronology of the crucifixion of Jesus - the timetable. I have found that this week has become more real and Jesus a bit closer because at various points of the past few days, I would envision was Jesus was going through. It is one thing to realize that Jesus died on the cross, but it is quite another as I went through this afternoon thinking how Jesus would have been on the cross as if it were today. Quite an enlightening experience.

    John grew up in "a town in Judea" (Lk.1:39-40). He was a Levite. Our Lord Jesus was born about 4 BC but must flee Herod's decree to slaughter the babies of Bethlehem. Herod died soon after he commanded the slaughter of the babies of Bethlehem in 4 BC. It was then that our Lord Jesus returned from Egypt (Matt.2:19-20), but instead of returning to Bethlehem, His father went to Nazareth. How much contact He had with John is speculative. But as to your comment about the "Bible not recognizing such a relationship", you have opened a massively important point.

    Besides John being the last prophet of the Old Testament (Matt.11:13), we read in Luke 16:16, "The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it." This is a crucial verse. It introduces the Kingdom of God, and it introduces the fact that to get into the Kingdom of God a man must "press". The Greek word rendered "press" means; "to force into", "to crowd into" and/or "seize by violence".

    First, we must define the Kingdom of God. A Kingdom is a sphere where a certain king has sovereign rights and is obeyed. The Kingdom of God is that area where He exercises sovereign rights and is obeyed. In heaven this the case. But on earth another system is in place. While God has the POWER to exercise His sovereign right, AN-OTHER "Prince" vies for obedience - Satan. He is called by our Lord Jesus, "The Prince of this World". The Greek word for "world" is "kosmos". "Kosmos" can mean the universe, or the earth, but its true and literal meaning is "the adornment", or "the orderly arrangement of things". Satan is master of the present ORDER OF THINGS. That is why our Lord Jesus said that His Kingdom was "NOT of this world". He did not mean the created earth. He meant "the arrangement" of things. This world order functions by evil, corruption, political intrigue, war, murder and theft. So in order for God to make His Kingdom ON EARTH, He must subdue, defeat and replace the present "Prince" and his servants. The Kingdom of God is that time AFTER our Lord Jesus has returned and dashed to pieces the kingdoms of men on this earth, as the prophets Daniel predicted, and as Revelation 11:15 and 19:15-16 confirm.

    1. Now, to SEE the Kingdom of God a man must be born of the Holy Spirit (Jn.3:3). This is had by FAITH (Jn.1:12-13). And this rebirth guarantees a Christian's resurrection when Christ returns (2nd Cor.5:5; Eph.1:14). So all Christians will SEE the Kingdom set up.
    2. But to ENTER the Kingdom something is added - WATER IMMERSION (Jn.3:5). The reason for this not complex, but would make the posting too long. But, in this is a test. Understanding Baptism it is NOT NECESSARY! Why? Because it is a COMMAND! (Matt.28:19; Mk.16:16; Act.2:38). That is, to ENTER the Kingdom needs WORKS and OBEDIENCE.

    Returning then to our verse above in Luke 16:16, we see these TWO things:
    1. "The Kingdom is PREACHED!" What is preached? The NEW BIRTH. The New Birth infuses the divine Life of God into a man and makes him QUALIFIED for the Kingdom. The Kingdom of God will a be Kingdom where the rulers have Christ's LIFE. And this LIFE will enable them to LIVE and RULE in a Godly manner. The Kingdom has God's Name attached to it. He cannot afford to have the present "order of things". He need men who will be in the image and likeness of Christ. So His divine nature and life are infused into the Christian at his rebirth.
    2. The Kingdom is PRESSED INTO!" Not all Christians will be allowed to participate. The slothful, sinful and rebellious will NOT PARTICIPATE (Gal.5:21; Eph.5:5). Only those who "pressed" will participate. The Christian must show by WORKS and OBEDIENCE that he is qualified to be a co-ruler with Christ. Do all Christians OBEY and be baptized? Do all Christians do their work diligently? Do all Christians submit to their bosses? Do some Christians fornicate? Do some Pastors rip off their congregations? The list is endless, but the bottom line is that ENTRY into the Coming Kingdom of God is NOT GUARANTEED.

    And what has this all to do with the OP and John's relationship with Jesus? EVERYTHING!

    In Matthew 11:11 and Luke 7:28 it says severally;
    • 11 "Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he."
    • 28 "For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he."

    What these verses say is that John the Baptist WAS NOT BORN AGAIN! John is the greatest man BORN OF A WOMAN! But when he is compared to the LEAST in the Coming Kingdom of God, HE DOES NOT COMPARE. The "least" in the Kingdom is BORN OF THE HOLY SPIRIT! John is greater than any man every born of a woman, but in his crisis in jail he asks in Luke 7:19, "And John calling unto him two of his disciples sent them to Jesus, saying, Art thou he that should come? or look we for another?" Did he not BELIEVE? NO! Look carefully at John 1:33; "And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost." John needed A SIGN! He did not "recognize" Jesus" (Lit. Gk.). And again, what was John doing with a discipleship AFTER Jesus came. Is not John bound to BE A DISCIPLE of Jesus and NOT HAVE HIS OWN DISCIPLES? There is a blunt but true statement among some theologians; "John did not recognize his Head (Christ) so he lost his head". Crass? Maybe - but true.

    The relationship between John and our Lord Jesus was cousin once removed. What shall we think when in Matthew 12:46-50 our Lord Jesus disowns His own mother and brothers and sisters. Was our Lord wrong? NO! The answer is in 2nd Corinthians 5:17; "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." The old is nailed to cross with Jesus. ALL THINGS are become new! Does ethnicity count? YES - if you are NOT IN Christ. But if you are IN Christ your ethnicity, social status, past achievements and heritage ARE GONE. Our Lord Jesus was "born of the Holy Spirit" (Matt.1:18; Lk.1:35). John Baptist was born of a barren women, and our Lord Jesus to a virgin. Did God intervene in BOTH conceptions? YES! What then is the difference? ONE is of the flesh, and ONE is of the Spirit. John, Israelite and Levite, greatest born to a woman, was a man of renown. He is selected and anointed to announce Jesus. He is elected to bury Israel in the waters of Jordan to show that their past was to be eradicated just as Abraham and Israel passed through the "flood" to leave their pasts behind (Josh:24:2, 14). John has the "spirit of Elijah" - the job of warning Israel of impending doom. ALL Judea came down to the Jordan to hear him (Matt.3:5). What a man! What a servant of the Lord! BUT ... the LEAST in the Kingdom is greater than John!

    The "BUT" must tell us of a terrible shortcoming. John told Israel of their shortcoming and then fell short himself. John could claim second cousin to the Messiah, and he could claim to be the greatest born of a woman, but Paul says in 2 Corinthians 5:16, "Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more." Are you looking for a Jesus you can touch and invite for supper, or are you looking for the indwelling Spirit of Christ?

  5. #5

    Re: Jesus and John the Baptist

    Quote Originally Posted by Servant1981 View Post
    I watched Jesus - His Life from History Channel and found something a bit confusing. They treat the relationship between Jesus and John the Baptist as if they were strangers and even the Bible kind of ignores such a relationship. Weren't Mary and Elizabeth cousins? Isn't it somewhat likely that Jesus and John were quite familiar with one another?
    The Bible does not so much emphasize the family (extended cousins) relationship between Jesus and John.

    Jesus was revealed to John as the Son of God. The Holy Spirit came upon Jesus and remained in Jesus, just as God revealed to John.

    John was a great prophet because the Life and Spirit of God came upon him. He, John, could not have known (knowledge by the Spirit) Jesus because the Spirit did not remain (dwell) in him. If the Spirit remained in John, he would have both known and understood the Christ.

    To prophesy is good! But, to have understanding and knowledge by the indwelling Holy Spirit is more acceptable and perfect than to prophesy by reason of the Spirit (merely) poured upon the flesh.
    Grace and peace unto you from God the Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ!

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