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Thread: Revelation 12 and some scripture to consider

  1. #16

    Re: Revelation 12 and some scripture to consider

    “And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.



    And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

    And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

    And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND Lord OF LORDS.”
    **Revelation‬ *19:9-16‬ *KJV‬‬

    consider this parable ( blessed are they invited to the wedding ...

    “And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said, The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,

    And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come. Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage. But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise: And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.

    But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city. Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy. Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage. So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.

    And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. For many are called, but few are chosen.”
    **Matthew‬ *22:1-14‬ *KJV‬‬

  2. #17
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    Re: Revelation 12 and some scripture to consider

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower1977 View Post
    notice first the dragon bring the stars from heaven to earth , then he waits to destroy the child, then the child is exalted , then there is a war ...
    Note only is this event taking place in heaven and being committed by the dragon himself not Herod nor Judas.

    Notice the timing of the event. This event takes place just prior to a 3.5 years period. A period in which we see in Rev 13 whereby the AC is upon the earth.

    Thus for the man child to be Christ then there would have to be some 2000 year gap some where in Rev 12 from the war then to this 3.5 year period.

    In addition, scripture does not reference "man child" to Christ but to Israel. here we see the parallel to what is occurring in Rev 12.

    IS 66
    6 A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the Lord that rendereth recompence to his enemies.
    7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.
    8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

  3. #18

    Re: Revelation 12 and some scripture to consider

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower1977 View Post
    his word of certain death reigned until the gospel, now his word of certain life reigns throug Christ,
    His word of death still reigns in unbelievers and live in believers. Watch,

    The kingdoms of this world "are become" (???) the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ Rev.11:15

    There's nothing God doesn't own. The only way something can "become" Gods possession, is for us to "become" aware of it. You see? It's not that God didn't always possess all things. It's that we didn't always know it.

  4. #19

    Re: Revelation 12 and some scripture to consider

    Edit: life in believers (not live)

  5. #20

    Re: Revelation 12 and some scripture to consider

    I agree totally with what you have said .

    It's a process , the problem was never God or his word, we fell through sin, death and darkness came because man was given dominion....it's the reason Jesus was behoved to be born a man....man has dominion for at it was through Adam...now notice what Jesus says

    “And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.”
    **John‬ *5:27‬ *KJV‬‬

    because he is the son of man...it's because man was given dominion over Gods creation from the start. Gods word is creation, when he speaks it is impossible for his word to not manifest. When he made creation, he then made man to rule over it, in his spirit, his ways, in righteousness and truth.

    the problem of sin for mankind came by satans word the lie

    “And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:”
    **Genesis‬ *3:4‬ *KJV‬‬

    when man then consumed the knowledge of good and evil, it changed mans nature to that which knows good and evil , and have now a conflicted nature. All because God spoke the truth , Satan spoke a lie. A sinner is t a purely evil person but someone who does evil in any regard, because mans state is to be in Gods image in his glory good and right without sin .

    through the knowledge of evil we face a conflict in our nature. Flesh v spirit. Good v evil. Light v dark. It started by satans lie after Gods word....the battle never changed, it's about Gods word, and satans lies for the hearts of men. Because man has dominion on earth first Adam , now Christ at his birth when he became the son of man. A man must rule creation for God said it in the beginning, so he sent his son to become one of us , gave him all power and authority as a man , in order to redeem us to reign on earth as his children we learn it in the gospel.

    or we can follow the other word in the world and go where he leads us....God is a spirit he has always simply spoken forth and it is. Satan is a spirit he has always spoken lies , in order to lead astray those meant for salvation. It's why hell was created for satans punishment and his angels...sadly those who follow his lies will end up with him

    “Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

    Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.”
    **Matthew‬ *25:41, 45-46‬ *KJV‬‬

    it's all about the word. God has always been in control of the end of things. He gave us do I ion over the earth our kind mankind, we were then sold as slaves into sin and death by the first man ....and we are redeemed from that into eternal life by the new man. It's like the life of Jesus we died through the word because Satan corrupted men's hearts and by Gods word of death which was meant for life , but Satan used it for death by corrupting mans mind and heart....and are raised up born again through the word of truth the gospel , salvation from all of that . Coming through the truth as we fell through a lie

  6. #21

    Re: Revelation 12 and some scripture to consider

    Quote Originally Posted by journeyman View Post
    His word of death still reigns in unbelievers and live in believers. Watch,

    The kingdoms of this world "are become" (???) the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ Rev.11:15

    There's nothing God doesn't own. The only way something can "become" Gods possession, is for us to "become" aware of it. You see? It's not that God didn't always possess all things. It's that we didn't always know it.


    yes agreed , we know it only through the gospel , God intentionally hid the gospel u til the appointed time for man to know. The reason is we needed to k ow sin is death, in order to fear and gain wisdom knowing that we have to have salvation provided from Gods word. Jesus Christ. Man being given dominion doesn't mean God didn't posses things , we are stewards meant to rule in his spirit living within us. In the beginning Adams authority over creation is evident


    “And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.”
    **Genesis‬ *1:26‬ *KJV‬‬

    so then it's Adams word being in Gods image that sets things here notice the rolesGod creates , and gives to man , and man has dominion

    “And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

    And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him. And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

    And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. << the law of marriage in the gospel....


    And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.”<<< before they ate the fruit .
    **Genesis‬ *2:19-25‬ *KJV‬‬


    God rules through mankind, his word through us is what brings things like good deeds and evil deeds. Based upon if we will hear and accept it, we determine our own destiny because we're given dominion. Note that what Adam said , was what determined things at this point having dominion.

    so then it bears out repeatedly through the bible


    but in the gospel were hearing

    “For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.”
    **Mark‬ *11:23‬ *KJV‬‬

  7. #22

    Re: Revelation 12 and some scripture to consider

    Fear and wisdom

    “And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:



    And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.”
    **Genesis‬ *2:16-17, 25‬ *KJV‬‬

    they were innocent knowing only good , being made in Gods image already created free from the knowledge of evil, but then...


    “And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.”<<< the black part is true , the lie is what changed thier perception of the fruit, making it seem harmless changing thier perception.
    **Genesis‬ *3:4-5‬ *KJV‬‬




    “And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons. And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God amongst the trees of the garden. And the Lord God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou? And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.”
    **Genesis‬ *3:6-10‬ *KJV‬‬

    they believed the lie even though they knew the truth. We know what they believed , by what they did. Had they believed Gods word, they live, if they believe the lie, they will die.....they chose the lie and death and then comes sin to man, and then comes slavery to sin and it's wages which are death to mankind....

    but there is wisdom in fearing the lord.


    The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding. For by me thy days shall be multiplied, and the years of thy life shall be increased.”
    **Proverbs‬ *9:10-11‬ *KJV‬‬

    in knowing Gods word about death is also true, we have understanding that, this is a real thing, if we continue on in sin we will die, but if through the knowledge of Jesus Christ, we believe his teachings and repent truly inwardly , we will be set free from that slavery we knew. Satan used the word of God in this way


    “For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

    What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

    But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

    Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.”
    **Romans‬ *7:5-14‬ *KJV‬‬

    the commandment was meant to keep mans life and freedom, note until this they are blessed , given dominion, given the creation in which to be stewards and subdue. Note the tree of life is one of the trees. In the garden....and the forbidden tree

    “And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

    And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
    **Genesis‬ *2:8-9, 16-17‬ *KJV‬‬


    Imagine if they believe this and keep this, it means eternal life, death only comes to man of this commandment that is to,keep life, is broken , the only result is what God said " you will surely die" if they eat the fruit. If they obey God it's life and freedom, death if they don't so then the enemy comes

    “And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:”
    **Genesis‬ *3:4‬ *KJV‬‬

    he is using sin to kill man , by using man to do exactly what God warned them would certainly bring death. Using Gods word against man because of no wisdom in man, no knowledge that sin is death.

    " sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment,[/COLOR][/B] deceived me, and by it slew me.



    when we see that both good and evil come from Gods word, God is good, he has always warned of the evil to come from sin from believing the lies and following them. We brought death because we followed sin, it comes from Gods word because his word said " if you do this you will die" Satan then used this to say men, bring death and rule through mans sin because of Gods love and mercy for man he has always stayed his execution until life could come through the word of Jesus Christ. To those who fear God through wisdom and the know,edge of sin and death, and roghteousness and life

  8. #23

    Re: Revelation 12 and some scripture to consider

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Note only is this event taking place in heaven and being committed by the dragon himself not Herod nor Judas.

    Notice the timing of the event. This event takes place just prior to a 3.5 years period. A period in which we see in Rev 13 whereby the AC is upon the earth.

    Thus for the man child to be Christ then there would have to be some 2000 year gap some where in Rev 12 from the war then to this 3.5 year period.

    In addition, scripture does not reference "man child" to Christ but to Israel. here we see the parallel to what is occurring in Rev 12.

    IS 66
    6 A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the Lord that rendereth recompence to his enemies.
    7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.
    8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

    okay brother thanks for the views there, God bless

  9. #24

    Re: Revelation 12 and some scripture to consider

    The man child who was to be born and rule with a rod of iron

    “Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.”
    **Isaiah‬ *7:14‬ *KJV‬‬


    “I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel. Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.

    Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.”
    **Psalms‬ *2:7-12‬ *KJV‬‬


    “The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined.

    For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his
    government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this. The Lord sent a word into Jacob, and it hath lighted upon Israel.
    **Isaiah‬ *9:2, 6-8‬ *KJV‬‬


    that's all about Jesus who was foretold to be born of a woman, a man child, and would be seated at Gods right hand

    “The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

    The Lord hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.”
    **Psalms‬ *110:1, 4‬ *KJV‬‬


    this doctrine after the resurrection

    the Christ would be resurrected

    “For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved: Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.


    Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

    For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Until I make thy foes thy footstool. Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.”
    **Acts‬ *2:25-36‬ *KJV‬‬


    the man child is Jesus. Born a man because God rules over creation through man. Through Adams reign cam sin and death, through Christ's reign comes righteousness and life.

  10. #25

    Re: Revelation 12 and some scripture to consider

    Note also , Satan doesn't ever do anything himself , he corrupts man through lies and they then carry out his will. The dragon is a spiritual image of Satan. He can't do anything unless man follows his whispers, he's powerless against those holding fast to the truth. Gods will also is accomp,I shed through men, from the very beginning his word through man accomplishes his will wither good or evil. For instance he hardens hearts of people like pharaoh and nebucadnezzar to accomplish his word.

    he strengthens men continually to accomplish his word....there is light and darkness, good and evil, truth and deception all through the world, Gods word is life all else is a deception. Words are only vessels for the understanding or knowledge in them, they simply convey a message a spiritual truth either that of God through the gospel, or they can convey deception sounding great but lacking truth of sin and death. That's still true if we follow sin we will die, if we follow the spirit we will live. Our current flesh is condemned , but our spirits can live through Christ and we'll be given incorruptible bodies at the resurrection.

  11. #26

    Re: Revelation 12 and some scripture to consider

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower1977 View Post
    The man child who was to be born and rule with a rod of iron

    “Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.”
    **Isaiah‬ *7:14‬ *KJV‬‬


    “I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel. Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.

    Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.”
    **Psalms‬ *2:7-12‬ *KJV‬‬


    “The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined.

    For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his
    government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this. The Lord sent a word into Jacob, and it hath lighted upon Israel.
    **Isaiah‬ *9:2, 6-8‬ *KJV‬‬


    that's all about Jesus who was foretold to be born of a woman, a man child, and would be seated at Gods right hand

    “The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

    The Lord hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.”
    **Psalms‬ *110:1, 4‬ *KJV‬‬


    this doctrine after the resurrection

    the Christ would be resurrected

    “For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved: Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.


    Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

    For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Until I make thy foes thy footstool. Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.”
    **Acts‬ *2:25-36‬ *KJV‬‬


    the man child is Jesus. Born a man because God rules over creation through man. Through Adams reign cam sin and death, through Christ's reign comes righteousness and life.

    so when Jesus was saying things like this

    “Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God.”
    **Luke‬ *22:69‬ *KJV‬‬


    and we see the apostles saying things like this

    “So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.”
    **Mark‬ *16:19‬ *KJV‬‬

    “But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,”
    **Acts‬ *7:55‬ *KJV‬‬

    “If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.”
    **Colossians‬ *3:1‬ *KJV‬

    we know it's for the intent of the high priest

    “But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

    Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; And having an high priest over the house of God; Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.”
    **Hebrews‬ *10:12-17, 19-22‬ *KJV‬‬


    for the intent of intercession and dominion in heaven and on earth

    Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.”
    **1 Peter‬ *3:22‬ *KJV‬‬

    “Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.”
    **Hebrews‬ *12:2‬ *KJV‬‬


    these things is what we're seeing in revelation 5

    to the intent that we on earth have this hope assured

    “Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.”
    **Romans‬ *8:34‬ *KJV‬‬


    “But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;”
    **Hebrews‬ *7:24-26‬ *KJV‬‬


    “My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
    **1 John‬ *2:1-2‬ *KJV‬‬


    where's beforehand under the levitical law , the word of God was to witness against sinners Saying " if you do these things you will surely die by all these curses in the law....but all have sinned.

    the Levites entered into a shadow of the things in heaven , having thier own sin they are never able to go into the presence of God, blood only allows them to not die in the shadow of Gods presence. Through Chrost who is with God in the heavens the true things, we are able to be " in Christ" and so we live our lives in his presence by the Holy Spirit living in us who believe, we are in Christ,who is at his right hand, we pray and he is there , we live our lives and he is there not only in chirch on Sunday but also in the darkness of night when no one else sees...

    “Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?”
    **1 Corinthians‬ *3:16‬ *KJV‬‬


    “If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

    At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.”
    **John‬ *14:15-17, 20‬ *KJV‬‬


    “Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ,..And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

    For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.”
    **Ephesians‬ *2:5-8, 10‬ *KJV‬‬


    the Holy Spirit is important .

  12. #27

    Re: Revelation 12 and some scripture to consider

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower1977 View Post
    It's a process , the problem was never God or his word, we fell through sin, death and darkness came because man was given dominion....it's the reason Jesus was behoved to be born a man....man has dominion for at it was through Adam...now notice what Jesus says

    “And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.”
    **John‬ *5:27‬ *KJV‬‬
    I don't think Jesus was emphasizing "Son of man" here. I think he was emphasizing "him" and "he".

    And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.”

    Jesus didn't have authority because he was born after Adam, but because he was born after God....God in flesh.

    For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 1Cor.15:27

    Most think Paul is comparing Jesus to his Father. He's not. He's comparing Adam to Jesus.

  13. #28
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    Re: Revelation 12 and some scripture to consider

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Ok, so first question ….. is Herod the great red dragon? Of course not.
    Sure it was...the dragon working through Herod.


    Secondly, did Herod go to heaven to commit this act? The event takes place in heaven not earth.
    A vision of Earthly events can be seen in heaven just like one can have a vision in their bedroom but see a place on the other side of the planet.


    Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

    This proves the child was born on the Earth not in heaven else he wouldn't have to be caught UP to heaven.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  14. #29
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    Re: Revelation 12 and some scripture to consider

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Note only is this event taking place in heaven and being committed by the dragon himself not Herod nor Judas.

    Notice the timing of the event. This event takes place just prior to a 3.5 years period. A period in which we see in Rev 13 whereby the AC is upon the earth.

    Thus for the man child to be Christ then there would have to be some 2000 year gap some where in Rev 12 from the war then to this 3.5 year period.

    In addition, scripture does not reference "man child" to Christ but to Israel. here we see the parallel to what is occurring in Rev 12.

    IS 66
    6 A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the Lord that rendereth recompence to his enemies.
    7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.
    8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.
    "Zion travailed, she brought forth her children"

    if you compare that to Rev 12 then it is Zion giving birth to a man child, not someone giving birth to Zion/Israel. This backs up the belief that the woman is Israel and she is giving birth to Christ. That's the obvious and most correct interpretation. The OP has it right.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  15. #30

    Re: Revelation 12 and some scripture to consider

    Quote Originally Posted by journeyman View Post
    I don't think Jesus was emphasizing "Son of man" here. I think he was emphasizing "him" and "he".

    And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.”

    Jesus didn't have authority because he was born after Adam, but because he was born after God....God in flesh.

    For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 1Cor.15:27

    Most think Paul is comparing Jesus to his Father. He's not. He's comparing Adam to Jesus.

    right Adam to Jesus exactly.

    here's what I mean by man having dominion from the start and why Jesus needed to become one of us ...

    And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

    So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.”
    **Genesis‬ *1:26-28‬ *KJV

    so then David begins writing...

    "O Lord our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens.....When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;

    What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.


    Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet: All sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field; The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, and whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas. O Lord our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth!”
    **Psalms‬ *8:1, 3-9‬ *KJV‬‬

    this is two fold as many of David's writings are it speaks of man from the beginning there, truthfully God greater man for the purpose of having dominion over his creation. And also he's speaking forward to Jesus as all things do

    But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands: Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet.

    For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.”
    **Hebrews‬ *2:6-8‬ *KJV‬‬

    But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

    For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren....Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.”
    **Hebrews‬ *2:9-11, 14-15‬ *KJV‬‬

    remembering that after he died and rose

    And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
    **Matthew‬ *28:18-20‬ *KJV‬‬

    truthfully brother consider the beginning God is a spirit everything he does , is through the vessel of men , his word is meant to be our faith and spirit.

    “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.”
    **Genesis‬ *1:1-4‬ *KJV‬‬

    then from the spiritual

    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

    That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

    ...But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

    And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”
    **John‬ *1:1-5, 9-10, 12-14‬ *KJV‬‬


    that's the word of salvation , forgiveness , truth , grace and it's why he kept insisting to have faith in him and accept his words were eternal life.

    Adam is the first , Jesus is the promised . Like Cain was the first, and bel was the righteous, like Ishmael was the first and Isaac was the second , the chosen... like Esau was the first , and Jacob was the second the chosen...like Sinai was the first , and the gospel is the second.

    the wedding supper of the lamb do you have any thoughts on that?

    Quote Originally Posted by journeyman View Post
    I don't think Jesus was emphasizing "Son of man" here. I think he was emphasizing "him" and "he".

    And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.”

    Jesus didn't have authority because he was born after Adam, but because he was born after God....God in flesh.

    For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 1Cor.15:27

    Most think Paul is comparing Jesus to his Father. He's not. He's comparing Adam to Jesus.

    right Adam to Jesus exactly.

    here's what I mean by man having dominion from the start and why Jesus needed to become one of us ...

    And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

    So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.”
    **Genesis‬ *1:26-28‬ *KJV

    so then David begins writing...

    "O Lord our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens.....When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;

    What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.


    Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet: All sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field; The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, and whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas. O Lord our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth!”
    **Psalms‬ *8:1, 3-9‬ *KJV‬‬

    this is two fold as many of David's writings are it speaks of man from the beginning there, truthfully God greater man for the purpose of having dominion over his creation. And also he's speaking forward to Jesus as all things do

    But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands: Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet.

    For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.”
    **Hebrews‬ *2:6-8‬ *KJV‬‬

    “But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

    For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren....Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.”
    **Hebrews‬ *2:9-11, 14-15‬ *KJV‬‬

    remembering that after he died and rose

    And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
    **Matthew‬ *28:18-20‬ *KJV‬‬

    truthfully brother consider the beginning God is a spirit everything he does , is through the vessel of men , his word is meant to be our faith and spirit.

    “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.”
    **Genesis‬ *1:1-4‬ *KJV‬‬

    then from the spiritual

    “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

    That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

    ...But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

    And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”
    **John‬ *1:1-5, 9-10, 12-14‬ *KJV‬‬


    that's the word of salvation , forgiveness , truth , grace and it's why he kept insisting to have faith in him and accept his words were eternal life.

    Adam is the first , Jesus is the promised . Like Cain was the first, and bel was the righteous, like Ishmael was the first and Isaac was the second , the chosen... like Esau was the first , and Jacob was the second the chosen...like Sinai was the first , and the gospel is the second.

    the wedding supper of the lamb do you have any thoughts on that?

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