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Thread: Question for partial preterist

  1. #166
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    Re: Question for partial preterist

    Quote Originally Posted by TMarcum View Post
    Absolutely no way, was the gospel preached throughout the whole world by 70AD. Even today, the gospel is not preached in the whole world. And you think it was done by 70AD?

    The gospel was just making it to southern India by 72AD by apostle Thomas. And even then was only at certain spots and districts. Certainly not whole India or all the world. So no my friend, the gospel was not preached in all the world or known world by then.
    So are you saying that Paul was wrong four times?

    Again my point is that Jesus used the same words as Paul so they were meaning the same things

  2. #167

    Re: Question for partial preterist

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    Please read all of my recent post it answers your questions
    I read them all. I disagree that he was referring to the known world of Rome nor that the word "whole" meant anything other than all of the world. The gospel was intended as a testimony against them.


    Did they see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven in 70AD?
    Matthew 24:30
    And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


    Exactly when was a gathering of the elect from the four winds by his angels in 70AD?
    Matthew 24:31
    And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

    Did the Lord come in 70AD?
    Matthew 24:42
    Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

    I'm pretty sure this verse was not referring to 70AD.
    Matthew 24:36
    But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

  3. #168

    Re: Question for partial preterist

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    So are you saying that Paul was wrong four times?

    Again my point is that Jesus used the same words as Paul so they were meaning the same things
    I think you may be taking his words out of context.

    In one place he said "is being"

    In another, he said in the earth.

    I think if you considered what Paul was saying, you would see he was referring to the process, rather than the end result.

  4. #169
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    Re: Question for partial preterist

    Quote Originally Posted by TMarcum View Post
    I think you may be taking his words out of context.

    In one place he said "is being"

    In another, he said in the earth.

    I think if you considered what Paul was saying, you would see he was referring to the process, rather than the end result.
    Reread them again they are pas-tense with words like had and has

    Romans Ch 1:8
    8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is being reported all over the world

    and
    Ch10:17-18
    ,17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ. 18 But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did:
    “Their voice has gone out into all the earth,
    their words to the ends of the world.”

    Paul also mentions it in
    Colossians Ch 1:6
    6 that has come to you. In the same way, the gospel is bearing fruit and growing throughout the whole world—just as it has been doing among you since the day you heard it and truly understood God’s grace.

    and Ch 1:23
    23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant
    .

  5. #170
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    Re: Question for partial preterist

    Quote Originally Posted by TMarcum View Post
    I read them all. I disagree that he was referring to the known world of Rome nor that the word "whole" meant anything other than all of the world. The gospel was intended as a testimony against them.


    Did they see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven in 70AD?
    Matthew 24:30
    And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


    Exactly when was a gathering of the elect from the four winds by his angels in 70AD?
    Matthew 24:31
    And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

    Did the Lord come in 70AD?
    Matthew 24:42
    Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

    I'm pretty sure this verse was not referring to 70AD.
    Matthew 24:36
    But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
    Again my point is that Jesus uses the same words as Paul so they ment the same thing

    It is the sign of Jesus on the clouds not literally Jesus on the clouds and the sign was they would know that Jesus was th wine from Daniel 7:13-14

    It was also Jesus coming in judgement not the second coming just like in the verse below

    Isaiah 19:1
    A prophecy against Egypt: See, the LORD rides on a swift cloud and is coming to Egypt. The idols of Egypt tremble before him, and the hearts of the Egyptians melt with fear.

    Jesus also gathered his elect by protecting them like in the verse below

    Matthew 23:37-38
    37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. 38 Look, your house is left to you desolate.

    He wanted to protect them all but only some were willing

  6. #171

    Re: Question for partial preterist

    Matthew 24:14 states: "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations." The Greek here for "nations" is ethnos = gentiles; peoples; race. It's clearly a reference to all people not just the Jews.

  7. #172
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    Re: Question for partial preterist

    Quote Originally Posted by Badger View Post
    Matthew 24:14 states: "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations." The Greek here for "nations" is ethnos = gentiles; peoples; race. It's clearly a reference to all people not just the Jews.
    If your replying to me I didn't say to only the Jews

    But once again my point is that Jesus used the same words as Paul

  8. #173
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    Re: Question for partial preterist

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    That is not the AC nor the GT. The whole world is "targeted" as territory he will control but Jerusalem is simply where he rules from. He doesn't attack Israel or Jerusalem. In Rev the only time Jerusalem is at all damaged is from an earthquake not from the armies of the AC.

    That doesn't take place anywhere in Rev.
    a. If the AC (empowered by the dragon) will not attack Israel, why would they flee into the desert for 3.5 years? People do not up stick and flee for nothing.
    b. I think it's important to identify the timeline of Zech 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

    3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

    4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.


    c. Can you honestly say that verses 2-4 is not at the time of Jesus Christ' return? It doesn't have to be in Revelation before you accept it occurs in the end times, v-4 is the key.
    d. It is your position that the only time Jerusalem is "damaged" is from an earthquake. According to v-2, Jerusalem will not only fall to the invading army but amid the slaughter that ensues, their women will be raped, etc.
    e. If you still disagree that Zech 14:2-4 is end-time, please tell us when it will be fulfilled? Zech 14:1 says "behold the day of the Lord cometh"
    f. Secondly, we know that in the 1st advent, Jesus came, meek as a Lamb unto death. He didn't fight any physical battles but in his second coming, he will come with war and vengeance upon his enemies. So when do you believe these verses will be fulfilled or perhaps have already been?

    Finally, when scripture says *the day of the Lord cometh* do we look back in the OT for the fulfilment of the day of the Lord or to the future?

  9. #174
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    Re: Question for partial preterist

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    How is that going to far when that is exactly the same thing I said in the post you are replying to?
    What I mean is that you are on point. It was not necessary to go overboard to prove your case. Everybody understands that Matthew wrote what he heard from Jesus and his Gospel is available to both Jew and Gentile.

  10. #175
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    Re: Question for partial preterist

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

    This shows that the disciples were asking about the end of the temple sacrificial age as the whole world was preached to before 70AD .

    Paul says the gospel was preached to the whole known world in

    Romans Ch 1:8
    8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is being reported all over the world

    and
    Ch10:17-18
    ,17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ. 18 But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did:
    “Their voice has gone out into all the earth,
    their words to the ends of the world.”

    Paul also mentions it in
    Colossians Ch 1:6
    6 that has come to you. In the same way, the gospel is bearing fruit and growing throughout the whole world—just as it has been doing among you since the day you heard it and truly understood God’s grace.

    and Ch 1:23
    23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant
    .
    Acts chapter 2:5
    5Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven.

    This verse shows that Jews from all over the world heard the gospel in their own tongue and could take it back to their own countries and share the good news.

    Read more: http://areopagus.proboards.com/threa...#ixzz5mLDybm8W
    None of these wonderful scriptures you cited proves that the Gospel was preached to all the world at the time of Paul. Remember that even Paul would not have known that the unknown world at that time was far greater than the Roman world they knew.

  11. #176
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    Re: Question for partial preterist

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    Of course I did actually say that it was written for the whole church
    What I said was that it was written to the Jews but also the message is for us just like revelation was written to specific churches the message is still for us
    Fantastic. We are in agreement here.

  12. #177
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    Re: Question for partial preterist

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    I didn’t say anything about mark and Luke were for the Jews only Matthew was.

    Matthew was writing to newly Christian Jews and Jews who were considering Christianity
    I'm not sure there's support for this view that Matthew wrote for Jews considering Christianity. The way I see it, he, like the other writers of the Gospel, had the responsibility of putting down on paper the exact words they heard from Jesus, for posterity. I believe this was his primary objective; the readership, whether Jew or Gentile was secondary.

  13. #178
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    Re: Question for partial preterist

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    For those who take the bible literally and the whole world to literally mean the whole world in Matthew 24 what do you think the Pharisees meant in the verse below

    John 12:19
    So the Pharisees said to one another, "See, this is getting us nowhere. Look how the whole world has gone after him!"

    Were they literal or just meaning the area they knew and lived in?
    I believe the Pharisees were referring to the multitude that followed Jesus. The passages are not a reference to the nations of the world following Jesus since they had not yet received the Gospel.

  14. #179
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    Re: Question for partial preterist

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffweeder View Post
    Thanks for those scriptures Marty.

    I still wonder about native Australians , New Zealanders , Americans etc that they heard it then.
    Hahaha. There were no Jews outside the ancient world (Rome, Assyria, Babylon, Egypt) in the 1st century. Emigration into Australia, New Zealand, America, etc. started after the age of European discovery from the 1400s. Portugal and Spain started it but England and France soon muscled in, into the party...

  15. #180
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    Re: Question for partial preterist

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    a. If the AC (empowered by the dragon) will not attack Israel, why would they flee into the desert for 3.5 years?
    I'm not talking about pre-trib events. I'm only talking about Rev 13's 42 months when the AC appears and rules.

    c. Can you honestly say that verses 2-4 is not at the time of Jesus Christ' return?
    No, I don't.


    d. It is your position that the only time Jerusalem is "damaged" is from an earthquake. According to v-2, Jerusalem will not only fall to the invading army but amid the slaughter that ensues, their women will be raped, etc.

    What you posted is not from the time of Rev 11 which is thee and of the GT and shows the only damage to the city is done by Earthquake not people and a 10th of the city falls not 100 percent like the AD70 people claim.



    e. If you still disagree that Zech 14:2-4 is end-time, please tell us when it will be fulfilled? Zech 14:1 says "behold the day of the Lord cometh"
    I don't know if or when it will be fulfilled or if it already was.



    Finally, when scripture says *the day of the Lord cometh* do we look back in the OT for the fulfilment of the day of the Lord or to the future?
    OT prophecies could have been future and still fulfilled before the NT was written.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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