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Thread: Question for partial preterist

  1. #196
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    Re: Question for partial preterist

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Not true, Marty. Paul might not have known that the world extended more than the Roman empire, but Jesus certainly knew. And we must accept what Jesus said over that of Paul even though none of them contradicts each other.
    Paul knew he was a Roman citizen and was tool of the Holy Spirit when writing his epistles

  2. #197
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    Re: Question for partial preterist

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    Is being means that it’s happened and is still happening
    Nope, it does not mean it has COMPLETED happening, but is in the process of happening. This means it has STARTED happening, but NOT ended happening.
    This is what you don't see to get.

    Romans 10 actually stats that it is about Christ it may refer to a psalm but it is talking about Jesus
    I didn't say it wasn't talking about Jesus, but the Psalm and quote is NOT about the Gospel of Jesus

    Is bearing fruit and growing is saying that it has happened and growing
    Nope. I suggest you relearn what the present continuous means. It NEVER means the think has COMPLETED its action, but rather that the action has STARTED, and has NOT yet ENDED. So it has NOT happened, but IS happening.

    Wasn’t Romans written before Colossians?
    Doesn’t really matter Paul states proclaims that it was preached
    Once again I’m not saying that the whole world heard it I am saying that Paul was using the same words and meaning as Jesus.
    Paul is NOT stating the GOSPEL about Jesus has been preached (already completed) throughout the world, and therefore he is NOT saying the SAME thing as Jesus.
    What Paul states is that CREATION has had this proclamation about Jesus, and the WHOLE WORLD has been told about God, but this is NOT the SPECIFIC gospel which Jesus was referring to.
    Try to follow what is said in CONTEXT rather than simply taking a word and then trying to fit it elsewhere. That leads to PRETEXTS and all sorts of wrong understanding.

  3. #198
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    Re: Question for partial preterist

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    The GT is 42 months and that is found starting in Rev 13. Everything in Rev 12 is before the GT so is "pre-trib events"
    Nobody knows for sure when the great tribulation will start, any claim that it starts in Rev 13 is false and misplaced. Furthermore, nobody knows its duration. The GT should not be confused with the 42 months of the Antichrist. Jesus said it will be shortened to save lives, therefore, it's exact duration is unknown.

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Like I said, I don't see any of it happening in John's vision where the GT is spoken of. OT scriptures can easily be of other historical events.
    The fact "you don't see any of it happening in John's vision" doesn't mean it's not there.

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    Re: Question for partial preterist

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Yes many claim the rapture occurs pre-trib but it does not but many things do occur pre or before the trib begins.

    Here are some actual pre-trib events:

    Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
    Mat 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
    Mat 24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
    Brother, I'm PreMil/Post-trib, take your pick. However, I'm not getting into a Pretrib, Premil argument here. It's exhausting with no end in sight! I will respect whichever side of the argument you are so long as you respect mine also.

  5. #200
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    Re: Question for partial preterist

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    Paul knew he was a Roman citizen and was tool of the Holy Spirit when writing his epistles
    True. But the fact remains that Jesus has the final say. In this regard, he said the end will not come until the Gospel has been preached to all the world. And his word cannot fail!

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    Re: Question for partial preterist

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Nobody knows for sure when the great tribulation will start, any claim that it starts in Rev 13 is false and misplaced.
    Incorrect. The End of Rev 12 shows Satan going to start the tribulation and in Rev 13 we see the rise of the two beasts who reign during the 42 month GT.

    Furthermore, nobody knows its duration.
    It's literally given as 42 months. At the end of that period Jesus returns and destroys the two beasts which obviously means the GT ended.


    The GT should not be confused with the 42 months of the Antichrist.
    It's the same time period.


    Jesus said it will be shortened to save lives, therefore, it's exact duration is unknown.
    It was to be 7 years and now it's shortened to 42 months.

    The fact "you don't see any of it happening in John's vision" doesn't mean it's not there.
    It's not in any NT passages that speak of the GT.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Nobody knows for sure when the great tribulation will start, any claim that it starts in Rev 13 is false and misplaced.
    Incorrect. The End of Rev 12 shows Satan going to start the tribulation and in Rev 13 we see the rise of the two beasts who reign during the 42 month GT.

    Furthermore, nobody knows its duration.
    It's literally given as 42 months. At the end of that period Jesus returns and destroys the two beasts which obviously means the GT ended.


    The GT should not be confused with the 42 months of the Antichrist.
    It's the same time period.


    Jesus said it will be shortened to save lives, therefore, it's exact duration is unknown.
    It was to be 7 years and now it's shortened to 42 months.

    The fact "you don't see any of it happening in John's vision" doesn't mean it's not there.
    It's not in any NT passages that speak of the GT.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  7. #202
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    Re: Question for partial preterist

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Brother, I'm PreMil/Post-trib, take your pick. However, I'm not getting into a Pretrib, Premil argument here. It's exhausting with no end in sight!
    I clearly explained this has nothing to do with when the rapture occurs. There are things that happen before the GT begins and I cited scripture that speaks of them.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  8. #203
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    Re: Question for partial preterist

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Nobody knows for sure when the great tribulation will start, any claim that it starts in Rev 13 is false and misplaced. Furthermore, nobody knows its duration. The GT should not be confused with the 42 months of the Antichrist. Jesus said it will be shortened to save lives, therefore, it's exact duration is unknown.
    Though I may disagree with ewq1938 on many things, he is correct to note that the GT is connected with Rev 12 and Rev 13. The duration IS 42 months. We even are given clues that the end of the GT is with the Festival of Booths - personally I see it as connected with the end of that Festival. However I could also see it connected with the Jubilee which is also announced in that month:
    Lev 25:8* “You shall count seven weeks of years, seven times seven years, so that the time of the seven weeks of years shall give you forty-nine years.*
    Lev 25:9* Then you shall sound the loud trumpet on the tenth day of the seventh month. On the Day of Atonement you shall sound the trumpet throughout all your land.*
    Lev 25:10* And you shall consecrate the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout the land to all its inhabitants. It shall be a jubilee for you, when each of you shall return to his property and each of you shall return to his clan.

    This means the AC starts his reign with the Feast of Passover and ULB.
    This reasoning is NOTHING to do with pre-trib, as you know I hold to a post-trib position.

    What Jesus said about being shortened does not mean the period as told to John would be shortened, but that it is not a full week, in fact it is shortened to half a week.
    Daniel 9 also speaks of this final week, but it is only the latter half of that week which is the GT.

    Also remember that it is the Feast of Booths which is the ONLY Feast which is specified that the Gentiles will keep. This would make a lot of sense IF that was when Jesus returned.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Nobody knows for sure when the great tribulation will start, any claim that it starts in Rev 13 is false and misplaced. Furthermore, nobody knows its duration. The GT should not be confused with the 42 months of the Antichrist. Jesus said it will be shortened to save lives, therefore, it's exact duration is unknown.
    Though I may disagree with ewq1938 on many things, he is correct to note that the GT is connected with Rev 12 and Rev 13. The duration IS 42 months. We even are given clues that the end of the GT is with the Festival of Booths - personally I see it as connected with the end of that Festival. However I could also see it connected with the Jubilee which is also announced in that month:
    Lev 25:8* “You shall count seven weeks of years, seven times seven years, so that the time of the seven weeks of years shall give you forty-nine years.*
    Lev 25:9* Then you shall sound the loud trumpet on the tenth day of the seventh month. On the Day of Atonement you shall sound the trumpet throughout all your land.*
    Lev 25:10* And you shall consecrate the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout the land to all its inhabitants. It shall be a jubilee for you, when each of you shall return to his property and each of you shall return to his clan.

    This means the AC starts his reign with the Feast of Passover and ULB.
    This reasoning is NOTHING to do with pre-trib, as you know I hold to a post-trib position.

    What Jesus said about being shortened does not mean the period as told to John would be shortened, but that it is not a full week, in fact it is shortened to half a week.
    Daniel 9 also speaks of this final week, but it is only the latter half of that week which is the GT.

    Also remember that it is the Feast of Booths which is the ONLY Feast which is specified that the Gentiles will keep. This would make a lot of sense IF that was when Jesus returned.

  9. #204
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    Re: Question for partial preterist

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Though I may disagree with ewq1938 on many things, he is correct to note that the GT is connected with Rev 12 and Rev 13. The duration IS 42 months. We even are given clues that the end of the GT is with the Festival of Booths - personally I see it as connected with the end of that Festival. However I could also see it connected with the Jubilee which is also announced in that month:
    Lev 25:8* “You shall count seven weeks of years, seven times seven years, so that the time of the seven weeks of years shall give you forty-nine years.*
    Lev 25:9* Then you shall sound the loud trumpet on the tenth day of the seventh month. On the Day of Atonement you shall sound the trumpet throughout all your land.*
    Lev 25:10* And you shall consecrate the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout the land to all its inhabitants. It shall be a jubilee for you, when each of you shall return to his property and each of you shall return to his clan.

    This means the AC starts his reign with the Feast of Passover and ULB.
    This reasoning is NOTHING to do with pre-trib, as you know I hold to a post-trib position.

    What Jesus said about being shortened does not mean the period as told to John would be shortened, but that it is not a full week, in fact it is shortened to half a week.
    Daniel 9 also speaks of this final week, but it is only the latter half of that week which is the GT.

    Also remember that it is the Feast of Booths which is the ONLY Feast which is specified that the Gentiles will keep. This would make a lot of sense IF that was when Jesus returned.
    I know that the AC will reign for 42 months and that the GT will fall within the same period. However, there is nothing in scripture that says the GT will last the course of the 42 months as you and ewq1938 claim. Jesus says it will be cut short; what this means to my understanding is that its duration will be a whole lot shorter than the 42 months. Now, since the Bible didn't say at what point (in the 42 months) that Jesus will step in to intervene, it is impossible to validate your claims.

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    Re: Question for partial preterist

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Incorrect. The End of Rev 12 shows Satan going to start the tribulation and in Rev 13 we see the rise of the two beasts who reign during the 42 month GT.
    It's literally given as 42 months. At the end of that period Jesus returns and destroys the two beasts which obviously means the GT ended.
    You should not confuse the length of the AC (42 months) reign with that of the GT. Jesus says it (GT) will be cut short. Therefore, it makes no sense to insist the GT will last for 42 months despite scripture saying it won't.

    It's the same time period. It was to be 7 years and now it's shortened to 42 months.
    Yes, both will occur in the same period, however, the GT will not run the course of the 42 months. IOW, it will stop a lot sooner - therefore we don't know how long for sure, e.g. whether it'll last for 10 months or so.

    It's not in any NT passages that speak of the GT.
    The Feast of Booths (Zech 14:18) is not mentioned in the NT, again, it doesn't mean it won't happen after Jesus returns. The fact you're yet to get your head around it doesn't make it any less, a scriptural fact and reality.

  11. #206
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    Re: Question for partial preterist

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    I clearly explained this has nothing to do with when the rapture occurs. There are things that happen before the GT begins and I cited scripture that speaks of them.
    Yes, you did. My apologies.

  12. #207
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    Re: Question for partial preterist

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    You should not confuse the length of the AC (42 months) reign with that of the GT. Jesus says it (GT) will be cut short. Therefore, it makes no sense to insist the GT will last for 42 months despite scripture saying it won't.
    So you are going to take older scripture and claim newer Rev scripture is wrong? Don't you know that Jesus revealed to John that the trib is 42 months not shorter than that? Obviously the GT was longer than 42 months but was shortened to the 42 months.


    Yes, both will occur in the same period, however, the GT will not run the course of the 42 months. IOW, it will stop a lot sooner - therefore we don't know how long for sure, e.g. whether it'll last for 10 months or so.
    This is clearly wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    You should not confuse the length of the AC (42 months) reign with that of the GT. Jesus says it (GT) will be cut short. Therefore, it makes no sense to insist the GT will last for 42 months despite scripture saying it won't.
    So you are going to take older scripture and claim newer Rev scripture is wrong? Don't you know that Jesus revealed to John that the trib is 42 months not shorter than that? Obviously the GT was longer than 42 months but was shortened to the 42 months.


    Yes, both will occur in the same period, however, the GT will not run the course of the 42 months. IOW, it will stop a lot sooner - therefore we don't know how long for sure, e.g. whether it'll last for 10 months or so.
    This is clearly wrong.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: Question for partial preterist

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    I know that the AC will reign for 42 months and that the GT will fall within the same period. However, there is nothing in scripture that says the GT will last the course of the 42 months as you and ewq1938 claim. Jesus says it will be cut short; what this means to my understanding is that its duration will be a whole lot shorter than the 42 months. Now, since the Bible didn't say at what point (in the 42 months) that Jesus will step in to intervene, it is impossible to validate your claims.
    Actually, the GT is a little bit shorter than the 42 months (potentially).
    The cutting short is NOT cutting 42 months short, but cutting it short from the length it otherwise would be. We have ample evidence that the length otherwise would be one week. Just read about Pharaoh and Joseph - 7 good years followed by 7 bad years - or 1 good week followed by 1 bad week.
    In Rev we have 1/2 a good week (the 2W) followed by 1/2 a bad week.

    We also KNOW 100% that Jesus does NOT shorten the AC's reign from 42 months, therefore the ONLY way the GT is shortened is IF it doesn't START when the AC starts his reign. However we KNOW from Matt 24:15, Rev 12 etc that Satan (through the AC) starts with an attack on the Jews, and then when this fails goes after Christians.
    So we have a START time which is the BEGINNING of the 42 months, and an END time which is AT the end of the 42 months.
    This is NOT to the exact day, but spread over that period of time.

    You are basically trying to make Jesus shorten what He has revealed, rather than understanding that what IS revealed IS the shortened length of time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    I know that the AC will reign for 42 months and that the GT will fall within the same period. However, there is nothing in scripture that says the GT will last the course of the 42 months as you and ewq1938 claim. Jesus says it will be cut short; what this means to my understanding is that its duration will be a whole lot shorter than the 42 months. Now, since the Bible didn't say at what point (in the 42 months) that Jesus will step in to intervene, it is impossible to validate your claims.
    Actually, the GT is a little bit shorter than the 42 months (potentially).
    The cutting short is NOT cutting 42 months short, but cutting it short from the length it otherwise would be. We have ample evidence that the length otherwise would be one week. Just read about Pharaoh and Joseph - 7 good years followed by 7 bad years - or 1 good week followed by 1 bad week.
    In Rev we have 1/2 a good week (the 2W) followed by 1/2 a bad week.

    We also KNOW 100% that Jesus does NOT shorten the AC's reign from 42 months, therefore the ONLY way the GT is shortened is IF it doesn't START when the AC starts his reign. However we KNOW from Matt 24:15, Rev 12 etc that Satan (through the AC) starts with an attack on the Jews, and then when this fails goes after Christians.
    So we have a START time which is the BEGINNING of the 42 months, and an END time which is AT the end of the 42 months.
    This is NOT to the exact day, but spread over that period of time.

    You are basically trying to make Jesus shorten what He has revealed, rather than understanding that what IS revealed IS the shortened length of time.

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    Re: Question for partial preterist

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    So you are going to take older scripture and claim newer Rev scripture is wrong? Don't you know that Jesus revealed to John that the trib is 42 months not shorter than that? Obviously the GT was longer than 42 months but was shortened to the 42 months.
    I don't know which one you refer to as "older scripture"? But I do know that none of the scriptures contradicts each other. The dragon through the AC will persecute Israel and Christians in his 3.5 years reign. But I don't buy the argument that the GT itself is 42 months long because God will cut it short.

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    So you are going to take older scripture and claim newer Rev scripture is wrong? Don't you know that Jesus revealed to John that the trib is 42 months not shorter than that? Obviously the GT was longer than 42 months but was shortened to the 42 months.
    I don't know which one you refer to as "older scripture"? But I do know that none of the scriptures contradicts each other. The dragon through the AC will persecute Israel and Christians in his 3.5 years reign. But I don't buy the argument that the GT itself is 42 months long because God will cut it short.

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    Re: Question for partial preterist

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Actually, the GT is a little bit shorter than the 42 months (potentially).
    The cutting short is NOT cutting 42 months short, but cutting it short from the length it otherwise would be. We have ample evidence that the length otherwise would be one week. Just read about Pharaoh and Joseph - 7 good years followed by 7 bad years - or 1 good week followed by 1 bad week.
    In Rev we have 1/2 a good week (the 2W) followed by 1/2 a bad week.

    We also KNOW 100% that Jesus does NOT shorten the AC's reign from 42 months, therefore the ONLY way the GT is shortened is IF it doesn't START when the AC starts his reign. However we KNOW from Matt 24:15, Rev 12 etc that Satan (through the AC) starts with an attack on the Jews, and then when this fails goes after Christians.
    So we have a START time which is the BEGINNING of the 42 months, and an END time which is AT the end of the 42 months.
    This is NOT to the exact day, but spread over that period of time.

    You are basically trying to make Jesus shorten what He has revealed, rather than understanding that what IS revealed IS the shortened length of time.
    I'm studying the scriptures again with the view of revising my position.

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