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Thread: Question for partial preterist

  1. #61
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    Re: Question for partial preterist

    Quote Originally Posted by Deade View Post

    Jeesh, you PPs sure can present walls of text explaining your scriptures in error. The statement of "this generation" is completely within the parable of the fig tree. Come on, get with the program or sit down.

    Walls of scripture? Lol, from who? I think another group is more proficient in “walls” than the pp on this forum. LOL

    It not an overly long answer. Answers to intense theological questions cannot be answered in a sentence of two. Books are written on this

    Quote Originally Posted by Deade View Post

    Jeesh, you PPs sure can present walls of text explaining your scriptures in error. The statement of "this generation" is completely within the parable of the fig tree. Come on, get with the program or sit down.

    Walls of scripture? Lol, from who? I think another group is more proficient in “walls” than the pp on this forum. LOL

    It not an overly long answer. Answers to intense theological questions cannot be answered in a sentence of two. Books are written on this
    “A” cannot be “A” & not “A” at the same time.

    מקום כניעה סך הכל

  2. #62
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    Re: Question for partial preterist

    I believe I gave an exegesis of Matthew 24: 29-31 by comparing Scripture with Scripture. If you are asking me how to view this passage in light of WW 2 the answer to that is incredibly easy. You ask the question with an assumption in mind, one which is in error. The assumption you are making is the the Jews who suffered an incredible holocaust in 70 AD are the same people who suffered in WW 2 and I would make no such assumption for they are not the same people, nor at they are the descendants of the few survivors of 70 AD, nor are they descendants of Abraham. Jesus said of the tribulation of 70 AD: "For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, NOR EVER WILL BE." Since Covenentally the "Jews" are the same status as "Gentiles" under the NEW Covenant since 70 AD, there will not be more tribulation for them like it, EVER! This is a short answer to a very involved and theological question.

    The main take-away from the passage of Matthew 24: 29-31 is that Jesus is using language that the Old Covenant people of Israel would understand is clearly coming form the Old Testament prophets and specifically form Daniel 7: 13-14. They KNEW what the meaning of the "SON OF MAN" was to them and understood what he meant when He used the term. He said these events would come upon THIS GENERATION, (Matt. 24: 36) meaning the generation they were living in. It all happened - within 40 years of Him proclaiming it. he said it again a few verse back to the apostate Pharisees in Matthew 23: 26: " Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation."

    "The Son of Man Coming on the clouds of heaven" from Daniel 7: 13-14 is NOT a description of the future Second Coming, as "Consistent literalists" have errored. It is a description of the SON OF MAN going UP to the Father on the clouds, in the first century, not coming back TO earth. To say it is the future Second Coming of Jesus coming back down TO earth is to read into the passage something it does not say!

    I realize to ultra-extremist literalists that the words of a Partial Preterist sound like the ravings of a lunatic teaching evil to the Church of God. I do not take these teachings lightly. I assure you I have studied Eschatology for almost 40 years since I got saved and have come to this conclusion after a lot of study of both Theology and Hermeneutics. Part of the problem is that no one knows ANYTHING about the history of what happened in 70 AD- NOT ONE CLUE - so when they hear about it, they have no idea how the words of Jesus in Matthew 24 fit in PERFECTLY with the fulfilled historical events. When one rationally compares Scripture with Scripture and let the Scripture be its own interpreter, one will come to a preterist conclusion, just as the Reformers and Puritans did in the 1500-1600's.

    This view was the standard back then, for a few hundred years, until Darby came along with ultra-literalism and futurism and poisoned the understanding of tried and proven hermeneutics that was developed over the centuries. Since the modern Western Christian, on average, knows nothing of preterism and has never even heard of it, except to be criticized, these words sound like heresy to them when they do hear about it. But it used to be the accepted, standard view of Matthew 24.

    *****I do not know how anyone can get around the words of Jesus in Matthew 24: 34 and Matthew 23: 36 when He said that these things would take place IN THIS GENERATION! First century!

    I would be happy to discuss this further with you should you have any question or wish to know the meaning/ significance of any particular passage from a PP perspective. Thanks!

  3. #63
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    Cool Re: Question for partial preterist

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    Why would Jesus confuse them by using the term this generation in Matthew 24 if he meant a different generation as he meant this actual generation in those other verses?
    Duh! Because it plainly states of a worldwide tribulation right before His return to earth. The parable:

    The Lesson of the Fig Tree
    Matt. 24:32 "Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away."

    The worldwide tribulation is expressed in Matt. 24:22 "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."
    John 15:17 "These things I command you, that ye love one another."

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    Re: Question for partial preterist

    Quote Originally Posted by DJohnson View Post
    I believe I gave an exegesis of Matthew 24: 29-31 by comparing Scripture with Scripture. If you are asking me how to view this passage in light of WW 2 the answer to that is incredibly easy. You ask the question with an assumption in mind, one which is in error. The assumption you are making is the the Jews who suffered an incredible holocaust in 70 AD are the same people who suffered in WW 2 and I would make no such assumption for they are not the same people, nor at they are the descendants of the few survivors of 70 AD, nor are they descendants of Abraham. Jesus said of the tribulation of 70 AD: "For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, NOR EVER WILL BE." Since Covenentally the "Jews" are the same status as "Gentiles" under the NEW Covenant since 70 AD, there will not be more tribulation for them like it, EVER! This is a short answer to a very involved and theological question.

    The main take-away from the passage of Matthew 24: 29-31 is that Jesus is using language that the Old Covenant people of Israel would understand is clearly coming form the Old Testament prophets and specifically form Daniel 7: 13-14. They KNEW what the meaning of the "SON OF MAN" was to them and understood what he meant when He used the term. He said these events would come upon THIS GENERATION, (Matt. 24: 36) meaning the generation they were living in. It all happened - within 40 years of Him proclaiming it. he said it again a few verse back to the apostate Pharisees in Matthew 23: 26: " Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation."

    "The Son of Man Coming on the clouds of heaven" from Daniel 7: 13-14 is NOT a description of the future Second Coming, as "Consistent literalists" have errored. It is a description of the SON OF MAN going UP to the Father on the clouds, in the first century, not coming back TO earth. To say it is the future Second Coming of Jesus coming back down TO earth is to read into the passage something it does not say!

    I realize to ultra-extremist literalists that the words of a Partial Preterist sound like the ravings of a lunatic teaching evil to the Church of God. I do not take these teachings lightly. I assure you I have studied Eschatology for almost 40 years since I got saved and have come to this conclusion after a lot of study of both Theology and Hermeneutics. Part of the problem is that no one knows ANYTHING about the history of what happened in 70 AD- NOT ONE CLUE - so when they hear about it, they have no idea how the words of Jesus in Matthew 24 fit in PERFECTLY with the fulfilled historical events. When one rationally compares Scripture with Scripture and let the Scripture be its own interpreter, one will come to a preterist conclusion, just as the Reformers and Puritans did in the 1500-1600's.

    This view was the standard back then, for a few hundred years, until Darby came along with ultra-literalism and futurism and poisoned the understanding of tried and proven hermeneutics that was developed over the centuries. Since the modern Western Christian, on average, knows nothing of preterism and has never even heard of it, except to be criticized, these words sound like heresy to them when they do hear about it. But it used to be the accepted, standard view of Matthew 24.

    *****I do not know how anyone can get around the words of Jesus in Matthew 24: 34 and Matthew 23: 36 when He said that these things would take place IN THIS GENERATION! First century!

    I would be happy to discuss this further with you should you have any question or wish to know the meaning/ significance of any particular passage from a PP perspective. Thanks!
    The only way to prove a prophecy true is the fulfillment of that prophecy and in 70AD Jesus' generational prophecy came to pass thus we know that the generation Jesus was talking about was the first century generation.

    Quote Originally Posted by DJohnson View Post
    I believe I gave an exegesis of Matthew 24: 29-31 by comparing Scripture with Scripture. If you are asking me how to view this passage in light of WW 2 the answer to that is incredibly easy. You ask the question with an assumption in mind, one which is in error. The assumption you are making is the the Jews who suffered an incredible holocaust in 70 AD are the same people who suffered in WW 2 and I would make no such assumption for they are not the same people, nor at they are the descendants of the few survivors of 70 AD, nor are they descendants of Abraham. Jesus said of the tribulation of 70 AD: "For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, NOR EVER WILL BE." Since Covenentally the "Jews" are the same status as "Gentiles" under the NEW Covenant since 70 AD, there will not be more tribulation for them like it, EVER! This is a short answer to a very involved and theological question.

    The main take-away from the passage of Matthew 24: 29-31 is that Jesus is using language that the Old Covenant people of Israel would understand is clearly coming form the Old Testament prophets and specifically form Daniel 7: 13-14. They KNEW what the meaning of the "SON OF MAN" was to them and understood what he meant when He used the term. He said these events would come upon THIS GENERATION, (Matt. 24: 36) meaning the generation they were living in. It all happened - within 40 years of Him proclaiming it. he said it again a few verse back to the apostate Pharisees in Matthew 23: 26: " Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation."

    "The Son of Man Coming on the clouds of heaven" from Daniel 7: 13-14 is NOT a description of the future Second Coming, as "Consistent literalists" have errored. It is a description of the SON OF MAN going UP to the Father on the clouds, in the first century, not coming back TO earth. To say it is the future Second Coming of Jesus coming back down TO earth is to read into the passage something it does not say!

    I realize to ultra-extremist literalists that the words of a Partial Preterist sound like the ravings of a lunatic teaching evil to the Church of God. I do not take these teachings lightly. I assure you I have studied Eschatology for almost 40 years since I got saved and have come to this conclusion after a lot of study of both Theology and Hermeneutics. Part of the problem is that no one knows ANYTHING about the history of what happened in 70 AD- NOT ONE CLUE - so when they hear about it, they have no idea how the words of Jesus in Matthew 24 fit in PERFECTLY with the fulfilled historical events. When one rationally compares Scripture with Scripture and let the Scripture be its own interpreter, one will come to a preterist conclusion, just as the Reformers and Puritans did in the 1500-1600's.

    This view was the standard back then, for a few hundred years, until Darby came along with ultra-literalism and futurism and poisoned the understanding of tried and proven hermeneutics that was developed over the centuries. Since the modern Western Christian, on average, knows nothing of preterism and has never even heard of it, except to be criticized, these words sound like heresy to them when they do hear about it. But it used to be the accepted, standard view of Matthew 24.

    *****I do not know how anyone can get around the words of Jesus in Matthew 24: 34 and Matthew 23: 36 when He said that these things would take place IN THIS GENERATION! First century!

    I would be happy to discuss this further with you should you have any question or wish to know the meaning/ significance of any particular passage from a PP perspective. Thanks!
    The only way to prove a prophecy true is the fulfillment of that prophecy and in 70AD Jesus' generational prophecy came to pass thus we know that the generation Jesus was talking about was the first century generation.

  5. #65
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    Re: Question for partial preterist

    What you are suggesting is a double/dual fulfillment. Its one thing to want to think that, but its another to come with with exegesis to support it. I am welcome to hear why you believe this (though I have studied the issue to death) by demonstrating to us the Biblical basis, proof or exegesis that would support a dual fulfillment. Dual prophetical fulfillments in Scripture are in fact very, very rare.

    There are things within the text that could only support a 70 AD fulfillment such as fleeing from the city to run for the mountains, the abomination in the then existing Temple by the apostates, and a host of others. Gods people will not be running for the hills at the Second Coming as there will be nowhere or no need to run, but they did before the Siege of Jerusalem in 70 AD. Are the stars of heaven literally going to fall on the earth, even though stars are generally hundred or thousands so times larger than the earth? Or are the sun moon and stars symbols for political, religious and earthly powers in Israel that were destroyed by the Romans Siege, just as the very same language was used in the Old testament, which Jesus is quoting verbatim in Matthew 24: 29, to describe the end of the powers of various earthly powers in the Middle East region such as Egypt, Babylon, Edom and the like?

    As for a "matter of fact type of language" you say Jesus is using in Vss. 29-30, I see nothing matter of fact about it. I see it for what it is: apocalyptic language signifying the utter destruction of the very power he was referring to back in verses 1-3, the powers, leaders and end of the land of Israel in 70 AD by the Romans. Again, he said here in verse 34 and a few verses back in Matt. 23: 36: "Truly I say to you, THIS generation will not pass away until all these things take place " and "Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon THIS generation." That is literal language. Verses 2-30 are apocalyptic language which usually does NOT denote literalism but figures of speech to describe an event.

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    Re: Question for partial preterist

    Welcome to the forum DJohnson. I presume that you are answering my comments on post #13

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberseeker View Post
    Preterists and Pre-Millers BOTH need to reexamine their thinking in regards to this verse. It's simply not credible for Preterists (including PPs) to apply a symbolic interpretation to a section of scripture that was spoken in such a 'matter of fact' manner! I appreciate some of their useful research concerning fulfilled prophecy, but this is not one of them. A better approach for Pret's (IMHO) would be to see AD 70 as an initial fulfillment, but precursing a greater fulfillment yet to come.

    Pre-Mill has a question that also needs to be asked: Why do you trivialise the collapse of the heavenly bodies in order to maintain your belief in a Millennium after the stars have fallen? When I read this in Marks account I can only imagine next a new heavens and a new earth.
    I will try to get back to you later.
    "Your name and renown
    is the desire of our hearts."
    (Isaiah 26:8)

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    Re: Question for partial preterist

    Good morning all and welcome to Doug.

    Reading the footnotes in Luke 21:32 NASB , it makes the suggestion that "this generation" might refer to the Jewish people as a race...,as they were promised to survive to the very end.
    What do you guys make of that?

    Good morning all and welcome to Doug.

    Reading the footnotes in Luke 21:32 NASB , it makes the suggestion that "this generation" might refer to the Jewish people as a race...,as they were promised to survive to the very end.
    What do you guys make of that?
    And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

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    Re: Question for partial preterist

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post

    Why would Jesus confuse them by using the term this generation in Matthew 24 if he meant a different generation as he meant this actual generation in those other verses?
    He also said "this generation" would see the second coming yet the people listening to him did not see that, nor any of the OD events so if he meant those with him on the mount, either he was a false prophet or he didn't mean they were the generation he spoke of.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  9. #69

    Re: Question for partial preterist

    I agree it could refer to the Jewish people. It's meaning isn't restricted only to those who were living when Christ spoke. I don't subscribe to Preterist theology so naturally I believe He probably meant "age."

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    Re: Question for partial preterist

    Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
    Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
    Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
    Mat 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
    Mat 24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
    Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
    Mat 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
    Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
    Mat 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
    Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
    Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
    Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
    Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
    Mat 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
    Mat 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
    Mat 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
    Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
    Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
    Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
    Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
    Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
    Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
    Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
    Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
    Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
    Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

    Immediately after the tribulation will the sun and moon go dark which is a global event. Did that happen after the Roman's destroyed the city and temple? No.

    Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

    All the tribes of the Earth mourning and seeing Christ coming from heaven to the Earth. Again, a global event. Did that happen in Ad70? No.

    Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

    The gathering of the saints by angels in Ad70? No.

    Mat 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
    Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
    Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.


    "all these things" includes verses 29-31 which shows the second coming and the gathering of the saints. Other scriptures tell us this timeframe is also the time when the dead in Christ are resurrected. Did either of those things take place in Ad70? No.

    None of those things happened in the lives of the disciples proving he was NOT talking about their generation not passing before "all these things" occurred.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: Question for partial preterist

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    Thank you for taking time to type this out. I really appreciate it.

    There was a real holocaust in 1940s as well. Over 7 million Jews were killed in what was genocide (i.e. an attempt to wipe out Jews) and around just as many Slavs. That's another question I had for partial preterist. How do they handle the passages that say there will never again be as great a tribulation as the one that occurred around 70AD? From what I understand, the PP tie it directly to Jerusalem rather than the entire world. For WW2 seems to me, to have been a lot worse (or at the very least, equal to) in both intensity and magnitude.

    NASB
    Matt 24:21 "For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.

    NIV
    Matt 24:21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now — and never to be equaled again.

    We see the same thing in Mark 13

    Mark 13:19 because those will be days of distress unequaled from the beginning, when God created the world, until now — and never to be equaled again.

    That passage doesn't seem to limit the distress to just Israel/Judea/Jerusalem. But rather, looks at the entire world. Maybe I am wrong about this...

    As I read it, there seems to be a fulfillment of these things in AD70 but that it keeps on going and going repeatedly... historcist seem to have this right, IMO.
    While it is true that the Holocaust trumps all the catastrophe and tribulations the Jews have endured in their troublous history, I will, however, exercise caution in intimating in any sense that it fulfilled the Great Tribulation cited in the Olivet Discourse since we don't know how bad the tribulation of the future will be. IMHO, the GT is directly associated with the end times and, therefore, could not have been fulfilled.

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    Re: Question for partial preterist

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    While it is true that the Holocaust trumps all the catastrophe and tribulations the Jews have endured in their troublous history, I will, however, exercise caution in intimating in any sense that it fulfilled the Great Tribulation cited in the Olivet Discourse since we don't know how bad the tribulation of the future will be. IMHO, the GT is directly associated with the end times and, therefore, could not have been fulfilled.
    No GT can be fulfilled without the second coming happening immediately after.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: Question for partial preterist

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    While it is true that the Holocaust trumps all the catastrophe and tribulations the Jews have endured in their troublous history, I will, however, exercise caution in intimating in any sense that it fulfilled the Great Tribulation cited in the Olivet Discourse since we don't know how bad the tribulation of the future will be. IMHO, the GT is directly associated with the end times and, therefore, could not have been fulfilled.
    Perhaps it began then for the Jewish people in 70AD and continues for them to the very end.


    Luke calls it dayS of vengeance that certainly began in 70ad ,and wrath continued for them wherever they were exiled. They still haven't passed away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    While it is true that the Holocaust trumps all the catastrophe and tribulations the Jews have endured in their troublous history, I will, however, exercise caution in intimating in any sense that it fulfilled the Great Tribulation cited in the Olivet Discourse since we don't know how bad the tribulation of the future will be. IMHO, the GT is directly associated with the end times and, therefore, could not have been fulfilled.
    Perhaps it began then for the Jewish people in 70AD and continues for them to the very end.


    Luke calls it dayS of vengeance that certainly began in 70ad ,and wrath continued for them wherever they were exiled. They still haven't passed away.
    And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

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    Re: Question for partial preterist

    Quote Originally Posted by DJohnson View Post
    I believe I gave an exegesis of Matthew 24: 29-31 by comparing Scripture with Scripture. If you are asking me how to view this passage in light of WW 2 the answer to that is incredibly easy. You ask the question with an assumption in mind, one which is in error. The assumption you are making is the the Jews who suffered an incredible holocaust in 70 AD are the same people who suffered in WW 2 and I would make no such assumption for they are not the same people, nor at they are the descendants of the few survivors of 70 AD, nor are they descendants of Abraham. Jesus said of the tribulation of 70 AD: "For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, NOR EVER WILL BE." Since Covenentally the "Jews" are the same status as "Gentiles" under the NEW Covenant since 70 AD, there will not be more tribulation for them like it, EVER! This is a short answer to a very involved and theological question.

    The main take-away from the passage of Matthew 24: 29-31 is that Jesus is using language that the Old Covenant people of Israel would understand is clearly coming form the Old Testament prophets and specifically form Daniel 7: 13-14. They KNEW what the meaning of the "SON OF MAN" was to them and understood what he meant when He used the term. He said these events would come upon THIS GENERATION, (Matt. 24: 36) meaning the generation they were living in. It all happened - within 40 years of Him proclaiming it. he said it again a few verse back to the apostate Pharisees in Matthew 23: 26: " Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation."

    "The Son of Man Coming on the clouds of heaven" from Daniel 7: 13-14 is NOT a description of the future Second Coming, as "Consistent literalists" have errored. It is a description of the SON OF MAN going UP to the Father on the clouds, in the first century, not coming back TO earth. To say it is the future Second Coming of Jesus coming back down TO earth is to read into the passage something it does not say!

    I realize to ultra-extremist literalists that the words of a Partial Preterist sound like the ravings of a lunatic teaching evil to the Church of God. I do not take these teachings lightly. I assure you I have studied Eschatology for almost 40 years since I got saved and have come to this conclusion after a lot of study of both Theology and Hermeneutics. Part of the problem is that no one knows ANYTHING about the history of what happened in 70 AD- NOT ONE CLUE - so when they hear about it, they have no idea how the words of Jesus in Matthew 24 fit in PERFECTLY with the fulfilled historical events. When one rationally compares Scripture with Scripture and let the Scripture be its own interpreter, one will come to a preterist conclusion, just as the Reformers and Puritans did in the 1500-1600's.

    This view was the standard back then, for a few hundred years, until Darby came along with ultra-literalism and futurism and poisoned the understanding of tried and proven hermeneutics that was developed over the centuries. Since the modern Western Christian, on average, knows nothing of preterism and has never even heard of it, except to be criticized, these words sound like heresy to them when they do hear about it. But it used to be the accepted, standard view of Matthew 24.

    *****I do not know how anyone can get around the words of Jesus in Matthew 24: 34 and Matthew 23: 36 when He said that these things would take place IN THIS GENERATION! First century!

    I would be happy to discuss this further with you should you have any question or wish to know the meaning/ significance of any particular passage from a PP perspective. Thanks!
    You have certainly given this much thought and I commend how you articulated your views without ambiguity. Nevertheless, an objective view of the Olivet Discourse clears shows that it comprises of several *events* leading up to the 2nd Coming. The events of 70AD pretty much happen to be just one of such events. Now, was 70AD or the Holocaust, the fulfilment of the Great Tribulation? By heck, NO!

    It is regrettable that some erroneously assume that it is exclusively a Jewish experience. But this couldn't be further from the truth. Upon John's enquiry in Rev 7:14 he was told that the great multitude of people he saw in heaven were those that came out of the Great Tribulation. Rev 7:14 I said to him, “Sir, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

    And in v-9 we are told that this multitude that came of the GT is indeed from every nation, all tribes and languages.

    Rev 7:9 After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands

    Unless one is claiming there are TWO great tribulations - one exclusively for Israel and the other, for everyone else (a view that is not supported in the Bible) I don't know how either 70AD or WWII fulfils the great tribulation?

  15. #75
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    Re: Question for partial preterist

    Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

    this:

    G3778
    οὗτος, οὗτοι, αὕτη, αὕται
    houtos houtoi hautē hautai
    hoo'-tos, hoo'-toy, how'-tay, how'-tahee
    Including the nominative masculine plural (second form), nominative feminine singular (third form), and the nominate feminine plural, (fourth form). From the article G3588 and G846; the he (she or it), that is, this or that (often with the article repeated): - he (it was that), hereof, it, she, such as, the same, these, they, this (man, same, woman), which, who.

    The verse equally can be translated as, "Verily I say unto you, THAT generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

    Many people use "this generation" as supposed proof Jesus meant the one he lived in and was speaking to but that is faulty since the word equally can mean "that" so we would have "that generation".

    Since the generation he lived in and was speaking to did not see the sun and moon go dark, stars fall, the sign of the son of man nor saw the son of man coming, nor the angels gathering the elect which would have included the disciples means without a doubt Jesus was speaking of a future generation.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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