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Thread: Resurrection and Apostles

  1. #1

    Resurrection and Apostles

    The apostles basically had the old prophecies memorized and walked with Christ, hears His teachings and what was going to happen to Him.

    Wirh all this in mind, why was it so hard for the apostles to believe He was resurrected? Why the huge shock? Was it a misunderstanding of scripture? Of what Jesus told them?

    Thanks.

  2. #2
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    Re: Resurrection and Apostles

    I think it was just pure-dee old unbelief based on …. well based on a lot of things.

    • Remember when he calmed the sea with them in the boat? It scared them. They said amongst themselves, "Who is this guy?"
    • Remember when he started having to tell them that he was going to die, but he was coming back? They didn't understand and wouldn't ask questions.


    Part shock - this being an incredible miracle. That's understandable.

    Part disbelief - it underscored their frail human hearts and minds.
    ".....it's your nickel"

  3. #3

    Re: Resurrection and Apostles

    Quote Originally Posted by jayne View Post
    I think it was just pure-dee old unbelief based on …. well based on a lot of things.

    • Remember when he calmed the sea with them in the boat? It scared them. They said amongst themselves, "Who is this guy?"
    • Remember when he started having to tell them that he was going to die, but he was coming back? They didn't understand and wouldn't ask questions.


    Part shock - this being an incredible miracle. That's understandable.

    Part disbelief - it underscored their frail human hearts and minds.
    Thank you, Jayne!

    Good point about the miracle and we should be filled with awe and wonder when we see God’s work, so true.

    This was a first, too, so no one had experienced anything like this before. So then I started wondering if our thinking is disabled because we base our theology too much on experiences? If a person has never experienced a miracle, they might not believe he performs those today.

    Our experiences or lack of experience has given us a delusion when it comes to even attempting to understand God.

    Would you agree? Or do you have insight in this?

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    Re: Resurrection and Apostles

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidC View Post
    The apostles basically had the old prophecies memorized and walked with Christ, hears His teachings and what was going to happen to Him.

    Wirh all this in mind, why was it so hard for the apostles to believe He was resurrected? Why the huge shock? Was it a misunderstanding of scripture? Of what Jesus told them?

    Thanks.
    In the Garden of Eden, Eve, unfallen and in a perfect human state as created by God, did not believe God. In Matthew 16 when our Lord asked the Apostles Who they thought He was, and they answered correctly, our Lord advised them that God in heaven had had to reveal this to them. No man of "flesh and blood" could do that. In Ephesians 2:8, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God", the grammar shows that it is the "faith" that is the the "gift". And Hebrews 12:2 confirms all; "Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;... ." Man, even pristine man, is destitute of the things of God. He needs God to intervene.

    But then there is another great evil. Even after God has intervened and "given" faith, why is it that so many seek to make His Words mean something else. Belief in resurrection should be the staple of every Jew. They all know that Abraham never obtained the Good Land for an "everlasting possession". He was "gathered to his people" before that happened. That was 4,000 years ago. If God has promised this, and Abraham has not received it - there has to be resurrection - or we may all throw our Bibles away. But I tell you. In my travels, most Christians think that a man dies and goes to heaven. That is, (i) there is no reason for resurrection, and they discard it, and (ii) they are at a loss to explain how, if a man is in heaven, the dead RISE!

    Are we on this Forum actually any better than the Apostles?

  5. #5

    Re: Resurrection and Apostles

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    In the Garden of Eden, Eve, unfallen and in a perfect human state as created by God, did not believe God. In Matthew 16 when our Lord asked the Apostles Who they thought He was, and they answered correctly, our Lord advised them that God in heaven had had to reveal this to them. No man of "flesh and blood" could do that. In Ephesians 2:8, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God", the grammar shows that it is the "faith" that is the the "gift". And Hebrews 12:2 confirms all; "Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;... ." Man, even pristine man, is destitute of the things of God. He needs God to intervene.

    But then there is another great evil. Even after God has intervened and "given" faith, why is it that so many seek to make His Words mean something else. Belief in resurrection should be the staple of every Jew. They all know that Abraham never obtained the Good Land for an "everlasting possession". He was "gathered to his people" before that happened. That was 4,000 years ago. If God has promised this, and Abraham has not received it - there has to be resurrection - or we may all throw our Bibles away. But I tell you. In my travels, most Christians think that a man dies and goes to heaven. That is, (i) there is no reason for resurrection, and they discard it, and (ii) they are at a loss to explain how, if a man is in heaven, the dead RISE!

    Are we on this Forum actually any better than the Apostles?
    Thanks, Walls.

    Agreed! We are not better than they!

    They said He was the Christ, the old prophecies laid out what would happen, Jesus laid it all out but they still did not know. It was like they did not believe he really was who he said he was. I get it, most people who proclaim Christ have this same problem.

    The Jews will be blinded until the number of the Gentiles come in. It’s different don’t you think?

  6. #6

    Re: Resurrection and Apostles

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidC View Post
    The apostles basically had the old prophecies memorized and walked with Christ, hears His teachings and what was going to happen to Him.

    Wirh all this in mind, why was it so hard for the apostles to believe He was resurrected? Why the huge shock? Was it a misunderstanding of scripture? Of what Jesus told them?

    Thanks.

    the Holy Ghost was not yet given unto them, not until he was exalted to the throne and sent the Holy Ghost to them. Notice afterwards Peter starts preaching just amazing things about the resurrection ....thier faith is solidified through the spirit that comes through faith in Jesus Christ. All things good are by his spirit even our faith...

  7. #7

    Re: Resurrection and Apostles

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower1977 View Post
    the Holy Ghost was not yet given unto them, not until he was exalted to the throne and sent the Holy Ghost to them. Notice afterwards Peter starts preaching just amazing things about the resurrection ....thier faith is solidified through the spirit that comes through faith in Jesus Christ. All things good are by his spirit even our faith...
    It is true that Peter came back and was powerfully preaching through the power of the Holy Spirit. Not disagreeing, yet there were Old Testament saints who had greater faith than many professing Christians today who claim they are Spirit filled.

    Just trying to figure out why?

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    Re: Resurrection and Apostles

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidC View Post
    The apostles basically had the old prophecies memorized and walked with Christ, hears His teachings and what was going to happen to Him.

    Wirh all this in mind, why was it so hard for the apostles to believe He was resurrected? Why the huge shock? Was it a misunderstanding of scripture? Of what Jesus told them?
    Maybe they were confused by this:

    Mat_24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: Resurrection and Apostles

    I think a large part of it was they were expecting a physical kingdom. They literally thought Jesus was going to sit on the throne of David and the Jews would be a powerful nation once again. Even after his resurrection they had this mind set. In Acts 1:6 they still inquire about the physical kingdom. It wasn't until they received the Holy Spirit that they had a clearer understanding. There are a lots of verses that show this mindset among the apostles and their lack of understanding throughout the NT.

  10. #10

    Re: Resurrection and Apostles

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidC View Post
    It is true that Peter came back and was powerfully preaching through the power of the Holy Spirit. Not disagreeing, yet there were Old Testament saints who had greater faith than many professing Christians today who claim they are Spirit filled.

    Just trying to figure out why?
    well if you notice those of faith then were approached by angels and things , or like Moses and the many judges after the spirit of God was upon them...the issue was unlike Jesus they died, and even more they never promised to go sit at Gods right hand and send forth his spirit into those who will keep his word.

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidC View Post
    It is true that Peter came back and was powerfully preaching through the power of the Holy Spirit. Not disagreeing, yet there were Old Testament saints who had greater faith than many professing Christians today who claim they are Spirit filled.

    Just trying to figure out why?
    well if you notice those of faith then were approached by angels and things , or like Moses and the many judges after the spirit of God was upon them...the issue was unlike Jesus they died, and even more they never promised to go sit at Gods right hand and send forth his spirit into those who will keep his word.

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    Re: Resurrection and Apostles

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidC View Post
    It is true that Peter came back and was powerfully preaching through the power of the Holy Spirit. Not disagreeing, yet there were Old Testament saints who had greater faith than many professing Christians today who claim they are Spirit filled.

    Just trying to figure out why?
    There are lots of reasons for that, little faith Greek « oligopistoi » is one of them. So the Apostles had faith, but it was not matured enough, yet.

    At least some are under the impression the Holy Spirit only came after the Lord ascended, but we have Luke 4:1 and Mat. 3:16 which says « And Jesus being full of the Holy Spirit ... » and « ... and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him ». Also in the O.T. there were those who saw things by the Spirit of God, i.e. the Holy Spirit, for example Eze. 11:24 « Afterwards the spirit took me up, and brought me in a vision by the Spirit of God ... ».

    In Num. 11:29 Moses says « ... would God that all the LORD'S people were prophets, and that the LORD would put his spirit upon them! », this is the Holy Spirit. In v. 16 and 17, 70 elders of Israel had the Holy Spirit. Also David had the Holy Spirit « Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me », Psa. 51:11. And Isa. 63:10, 11 « But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them. Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit within him? ».

    Abraham is a big example of what « faith » must be, that's why the Lord says in Gen. 15:6 « And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness ». Now after Jehovah has come in the flesh we have to believe more, since more has been revealed.

    Aristarkos

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    Re: Resurrection and Apostles

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidC View Post
    Thanks, Walls.

    Agreed! We are not better than they!

    They said He was the Christ, the old prophecies laid out what would happen, Jesus laid it all out but they still did not know. It was like they did not believe he really was who he said he was. I get it, most people who proclaim Christ have this same problem.

    The Jews will be blinded until the number of the Gentiles come in. It’s different don’t you think?
    I agree. There is a difference between (i) not comprehending and (ii) rejection of what is before one's eyes. In Romans Chapter 1, from verse 18 onward, we can see what happens when a person rejects what is before their eyes. God adds to the stupidity. One of the curses of the Law was, in Deuteronomy 28:28-29, "The LORD shall smite thee with madness, and blindness, and astonishment of heart: And thou shalt grope at noonday, as the blind gropeth in darkness, ... ." The "blindness" and "astonishment of heart" are not intrinsic to Israelites. They are given by God. Israel were given, as you correctly said, the prophets and then given literally hundreds of "signs" when our Lord came. They even admitted that two miracles had never been done before - the casting out of demons and the healing of the blind. Besides our Lord fulfilling over 330 prophecies, His divine power was before their eyes - and they objectively rejected it.

    Lazarus was resurrected about a week before Jesus was. There were witnesses, and the fame of Jesus was so great that a few days later He was received into Jerusalem with palm branches and shout of "King!". Four days later, the same crowd that had shouted, "hail!", shouted "hail Caesar" (Jn.19:15), and bayed for Jesus' blood. This is more than not comprehending. This is perfidy. So Israel's rejection of Jesus is baseless and against all the evidence. But the FAITH needed to BELIEVE that Jesus is Who He claims, and to BELIEVE in His finished Work, must be given by God. And God does not give to all. He bases it on "foreknowledge". He "knows" beforehand who will use and appreciate it, and He "knows" who will reject it out of hand. Notice the grammar of Romans 8:29, "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren."

    The "foreknowledge" is for setting in motion the faith. The "predestination" is not in conjunction with faith and salvation, but in conjunction with the process AFTER faith of conforming a sinner into the image of Christ. Let it be a gret lesson to us all that if something is shown unequivocally by God, and we reject it out of hand, we can expect blindness to start to settle on us. I have seen it over three decades. Brothers were shown clear an unambiguous statements in the Bible, and rejeted them because they did not fit their concepts. Years later, these brothers (and sister) were far down a road of confusion.

    Again, it is one thing to not comprehend something. But when it is before one's eyes, it must be accepted.

  13. #13

    Re: Resurrection and Apostles

    Quote Originally Posted by uric3 View Post
    I think a large part of it was they were expecting a physical kingdom. They literally thought Jesus was going to sit on the throne of David and the Jews would be a powerful nation once again. Even after his resurrection they had this mind set. In Acts 1:6 they still inquire about the physical kingdom. It wasn't until they received the Holy Spirit that they had a clearer understanding. There are a lots of verses that show this mindset among the apostles and their lack of understanding throughout the NT.
    This is a great point, I didn’t think of it! Thank you!

    Quote Originally Posted by uric3 View Post
    I think a large part of it was they were expecting a physical kingdom. They literally thought Jesus was going to sit on the throne of David and the Jews would be a powerful nation once again. Even after his resurrection they had this mind set. In Acts 1:6 they still inquire about the physical kingdom. It wasn't until they received the Holy Spirit that they had a clearer understanding. There are a lots of verses that show this mindset among the apostles and their lack of understanding throughout the NT.
    This is a great point, I didn’t think of it! Thank you!

  14. #14

    Re: Resurrection and Apostles

    Would they really have had all the Old Testament prophecies memorized? I ask because I don't know. I know Paul was a religious scholar but as for others it doesn't seem as clear. Maybe they only had a partial knowledge or had only what they'd heard from others or had been taught. When the Lord explained it to them maybe they were confused because it was contrary to everything they knew.

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    Re: Resurrection and Apostles

    Quote Originally Posted by Badger View Post
    Would they really have had all the Old Testament prophecies memorized?
    I don't think so either. Many were fishermen, not professional religious persons.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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