Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 82

Thread: The Prophetic Word

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    4,762
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: The Prophetic Word

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    There is only one sequence, one Plan that will actually unfold and that could be quite soon. So one view is right and all the rest are wrong.
    then the glorious Return of Jesus and after He has reigned for a 1000 years
    It should be clear to all that the first five Seals are open.
    Two examples which prove your thesis....

    I won't go into the 1000 years as we kicked that horse dead times over. But NONE of the seals have been open yet.

    But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

    You might say that this is not the book sealed in Revelation but not sure of any other sealed book. Now it states the book is to be sealed up till the end wherein the two things occur following the semi colon.

    Many run to and fro relates not to today's travel but to those whom will seek the word of Lord in the last days but will not be able to find it. Knowledge increased is not pertaining to the last 150 years of advancement in knowledge rather the knowledge which will bestowed upon Israel on these same last days.

    5 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.

    Now we see in Rev 5:1 the book is still sealed so when does the unsealing begin? We know it is after the Lamb has been slain (Christ's death) but how long after, right away and thousands of years later yet to be or somewhere in between?
    So I start with the words of Daniel and begin with the understanding the book is yet to be unsealed and will occur at the end. Thus I approach the first four seals in that light that they represent future events.

    The first four seals (lion, bear, leopard, beast) - the 4th kingdom of Dan 2 - the kingdom of Satan rising in the last days.

    This is why I have posted many threads of the first four seals. The first four seals actually represent the four beasts/kings in Dan 7 rising up in the nd days with the 4th beast detailed alone in Rev 13. To understand this I also recently had a thread understanding the four beasts in Dan 7 are NOT the same four in Dan 2 but represent the 4th kingdom of Dan 2. Also supported by threads we are currently still living in the third kingdom of Greece of Dan 2 and the 4th kingdom of Dan 2 Miry clay.

    Babylon
    MP
    Greece - currently living and to be broken into four parts
    4th kingdom - lion, bear, leopard, beast (four seals Rev 6 ) (little horn 5th seal rev 13)

    When we examine the first four seals we see it is the four beasts of God's kingdom which introduce them. Why? The first four seals represent the four beasts in Satan's kingdom.

    Also the these four beasts come up together and not separately. Remember this is Satan's kingdom coming up the earth at once, a phoenix rising up in a wilderness. We see this also by the mention that the fourth beast has control of 1/4 of the land as each four have 1/4 control. God's beast will also have 1/4 each in the eternal kingdom.

    The first four seals is a time when Babylon will be upon the earth reference to the power and over the goods control these four have over the earth. This especially seen in the third beast.

    Also if we look into the fourth beast we see "Hell" follows the 4th rider. This will be the little horn whom then will continue 42 months starting with the 5th seal.


    God bless.

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    4,762
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: The Prophetic Word

    I just want to say concerning the GT That no believers will experience it why? Certainly NOT due to some rapture but by death.

    Before the GT starts the mark of the beast has already been established and ALL those who oppose are killed off this would be ALL overcomers so no Christians remain for the GT. The GT being a very concise time period 1290 AOD -1335 days.

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    9,845
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: The Prophetic Word

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    I just want to say concerning the GT That no believers will experience it why? Certainly NOT due to some rapture but by death.

    Before the GT starts the mark of the beast has already been established and ALL those who oppose are killed off this would be ALL overcomers so no Christians remain for the GT. The GT being a very concise time period 1290 AOD -1335 days.
    I disagree, the killing of the believers because they don't take the mark is part and parcel of the GT. This is WHY it is a GT, it effects believers everywhere and leads to death. Just not all of them. Note Paul expected some to be alive when Jesus returns.

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    4,762
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: The Prophetic Word

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    I disagree, the killing of the believers because they don't take the mark is part and parcel of the GT. This is WHY it is a GT, it effects believers everywhere and leads to death. Just not all of them. Note Paul expected some to be alive when Jesus returns.
    The mark of the beast is laid out during the 42 months of the beast, perhaps near the end then the AOD then the GT

    Day 1 to 1260 42 months reign of the beast (bolded would be the mark of the beast.)

    4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
    5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
    6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
    7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
    8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
    9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
    10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
    11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
    12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
    13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
    14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

    1290th day

    15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
    16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
    17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
    18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
    19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
    20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

    1290 -1335 day

    21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.


    The GT is a very short span of space 45 days the beast goes to the temple as his enemies have been conquered. God is pouring out his wrath in the 7 vials. No time for the mark.

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    9,845
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: The Prophetic Word

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    The mark of the beast is laid out during the 42 months of the beast, perhaps near the end then the AOD then the GT

    Day 1 to 1260 42 months reign of the beast (bolded would be the mark of the beast.)

    4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
    5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
    6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
    7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
    8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
    9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
    10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
    11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
    12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
    13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
    14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

    1290th day

    15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
    16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
    17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
    18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
    19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
    20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

    1290 -1335 day

    21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

    The GT is a very short span of space 45 days the beast goes to the temple as his enemies have been conquered. God is pouring out his wrath in the 7 vials. No time for the mark.
    A lot of things wrong with this:
    1) What you quoted as the 1260 days has been happening since Jesus ascended.
    2) The GT doesn't start until AFTER the Gospel has been preached as a witness to all the world. This is one of the two requirements for the End to Start.
    3) There is no 1290 days and 1335 days. That happened along time ago, before Jesus was born of Mary.
    4) You don't have the GT having any meaning, as the GT is affecting the elect as verse 22 states.

    The Mark is given out DURING the GT, which is the span of the 42 months as Rev 13 shows.

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Thames, New Zealand
    Posts
    2,154
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: The Prophetic Word

    Too much confused and erroneous relies here. My beliefs stand as stated.
    Here is more prophecy for your consideration:

    Jeremiah 23:1-2 Woe betide those shepherds who let My flock be scattered and lost. You have not watched over them, but I am watching you to punish you for your misdeeds.
    James 3:1, Ezekiel 34:7-10, Jeremiah 16:17, Jeremiah 10:21

    Jeremiah 23:3-4 I, Myself will gather the remnant of My sheep from all the lands to which I have dispersed them. I shall bring them back to their own Land, where they will be fruitful and increase. I will appoint shepherds, who will tend them and they will live in peace and security. Ezekiel 34:11-16, Isaiah 35:1-10, Romans 9:24-26
    This is the second Exodus, the gathering and resettling of those of His Christian people who are protected during this forthcoming fire judgement. The Lord will raise up righteous leaders for them. The Land will be fruitful and He will protect them from enemies.
    Ezekiel 36:8, Ezekiel 38:8b-9, Zechariah 10:8-10
    Jeremiah 23:5-6 The days are coming when a Righteous Branch will come from David’s line, a wise King, who will maintain justice. Judah and Israel will be kept safe and will live undisturbed in the Land.
    The ‘days are coming’, verses 5-6 refer to a later period, the Millennium reign of Jesus.

    Jeremiah 23:7-8 Therefore, the time is coming when people will no longer praise the Lord for bringing His people out of Egypt, but praise Him for gathering the descendants of the Israelites back from all the lands where He had dispersed them. They will again live on their own soil.
    [‘Therefore the time is coming’ means – therefore, before the Millennium the Lord will instigate the return of His people back into their inheritance.] Ezekiel 20:34

    Jeremiah 23:9-15 Of the prophets: I am weak because of the Lord’s Holy Words. For now, the Land is full of godless people, prophet and priest alike are godless and I see their evil deeds. I see things most horrible, adulterers and hypocrites, to Me all the inhabitants of Jerusalem are like Sodom and Gomorrah. Therefore, I shall bring disaster upon them on the Day of Reckoning.
    Ezekiel 22:26-28, Jeremiah 14:14-16, Jeremiah 10:13-14

    Jeremiah 23:16-17 Do not listen to what the so called prophets say, those who buoy you up with false hopes and give voice to their own fancies. It is not the Lord’s Words that they speak. They say to all who follow their false teachings: prosperity will be yours and no harm will befall you.
    Prosperity theology and rapture theories are the fancies and mistaken beliefs of many Christians today. Isaiah 50:10-11, Ezekiel 13:1-16, Jer.6:13-15

    Jeremiah 23:18 For which of them have stood in the counsel of the Lord and received His Word and taken heed of it, with obedience?
    Psalm 74:9
    A serious indictment against those end time preachers, scholars and authors, who fail to properly discern and understand the prophetic Word, yet they promulgate and make money from their own theories, ideas and incorrect teachings.
    Psalms 50:16-19, Isaiah 30:10, Micah 3:5-7

    Jeremiah 23:19 See what a scorching wind goes out from the Lord, a furious whirlwind, that whirls around the heads of the wicked. A ‘scorching wind, a furious whirlwind’, is another description that fits a coronal mass ejection, the fire judgement that the Lord will use on His Day of vengeance and wrath.
    Psalms 18:7-18, Malachi 4:1
    Jeremiah 23:20 The Lord’s anger will not be turned aside until He has fully accomplished His purposes. In days to come, you will truly understand.
    Hosea 14:9, 2 Peter 1:19
    Jeremiah 23:21-22 I did not send these prophets, yet they go out with a message that is false. If only they proclaim My true message to My people and turn them from their evil ways!
    Jeremiah 23:23-24 Am I a God near at hand only – do I not fill heaven and earth? Can anyone hide in some secret place and I not see them?
    Amos 9:1
    Jeremiah 23:25-40…An indictment upon false teachers and prophets. Jeremiah 5:30-31, James 3:1
    Deuteronomy 32:28-29 You are a people devoid of understanding. If only you had the wisdom to discern what your end will be!
    Ref: REBible some verses abridged. Ref: logostelos.info

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    4,762
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: The Prophetic Word

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    A lot of things wrong with this:
    1) What you quoted as the 1260 days has been happening since Jesus ascended.
    I see your still living in the past.....Matt 24 is future.

    2) The GT doesn't start until AFTER the Gospel has been preached as a witness to all the world. This is one of the two requirements for the End to Start.
    Again Matt 24 is future. That's why you question this.

    3) There is no 1290 days and 1335 days. That happened along time ago, before Jesus was born of Mary.
    Again Matt 24:15 is future as well as Dan 12 reference. Note Matt 24:15 either way would actually be after Jesus was born.

    4) You don't have the GT having any meaning,
    God's wrath on the ungodly.

    the GT is affecting the elect as verse 22 states.
    22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

    What flesh is being saved? the elect's? Why would "flesh" be saved it can't inherit the kingdom.

    Rather the "flesh" being saved are the animals for the up coming wedding feast for the elect's sake, where do you think the food comes from?

    The Mark is given out DURING the GT, which is the span of the 42 months as Rev 13 shows.
    The GT is after the AOD which Daniel shows is the 1290 day of the 1335. But again you can't see it as your blinded with that preterist teaching.

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    5,744

    Re: The Prophetic Word

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    And? I have not disagreed with this.
    I have stated the GT is NOT God's wrath, but you seem to confuse the Seals, Trumpets and Vials with the GT. They are NOT the same thing. You seem to have accepted Pre-trib teachings that this is ALL tied into that.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Incorrect on a number of levels.
    1) The Day of Judgement is the GWToJ, and so I am agreeing with you about this, EXCEPT that is NOT the ONLY time God's wrath is out poured IN Judgement.IF it were then the GT would (according to YOUR definition) have to be on that one day.

    2) Peter states:
    1 Pe 4:17* For it is time for judgment to begin at the household of God; and if it begins with us, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God?*

    Jesus also gives a parable:
    Mat 13:24* He put another parable before them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field,*
    Mat 13:25* but while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat and went away.

    You know the rest, the point being that he weeds and wheat grow together UNTIL the time of harvest - which is when the GT happens. They gather the WEEDS first, NOT the wheat. IOW the weeds, the false believers are removed form the church THROUGH the GT.

    The GT is NOT about people who are NOT Believers, but about those who ARE Believers. However at the time of the GT, God will act against those who take the Mark.

    3) Their is NO GT in the air - there is simply a test done of our works.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    And? No one is disputing this.
    Noah was saved from God's wrath on the earth by being in an ark. God's wrath was poured out on the earth and Noah had to go through it too.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Huh? I didn;t say that and I am not sure what you are trying to argue.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Note that the "delivered" is in the PAST tense, NOT a future tense. The waiting is future. So we wait for Jesus, having been delivered from God's wrath, which is about the Judgement as noted in the GWToJ.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Indeed. And? What form is that wrath and against whom at that time? Does it affect Believers? No.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Most certainly not a part of the GT.
    The PEOPLE claim it as the wrath of the Lamb (notice not God). However it isn't. It just seems like it. Notice that God does NOT say IT IS the Day of the wrath of the Lamb - ONLY people make this declaration.
    One of the BIG mistakes is to confuse what happens in the order stated.
    What should REALLY clarify for anyone is that this so called wrath of the Lamb, has no one noted as dying, and no mention of Jesus' return.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    This is ONLY stated AFTER the 7th Trumpet is blown, and is NOT in connection with the woes, but with the change in the heavenlies when Jesus is crowned King and Satan has been kicked out of heaven to the earth, which initiates the GT.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Indeed he certainly does reign on earth, and he is the one CAUSING the GT, with the wrath of Satan:
    Rev 12:12* Therefore, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to you, O earth and sea, for the devil has come down to you in great wrath, because he knows that his time is short!”
    And you should read what you sate because it is the Beast's worshippers who experience the wrath of God DURING the time of the GT.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    You are so close...
    The 7 vials are DURING the GT, but are NOT the GT.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    You mean destroying Mystery Babylon.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Here we find the SOURCE of your error.
    God's wrath is poured out at various times on various people for ungodliness.
    His WRATH is indeed 100% for the ungodly nations and people.
    However the Great Tribulation is NOT God's wrath, but rather is the wrath of Satan AGAINST those who ARE godly, who follow Jesus.
    This is made abundantly clear in Rev 12.
    Satan tries to destroy Israel, and then goes to destroy those who hold to the testimony of Jesus:
    Rev 12:17* Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.


    Nope, firstly because that is NOT what the prophecy states.
    Secondly because it builds an expectation to avoid tribulation whilst Jesus taught the opposite.
    Thirdly, because it conflates God's wrath with that of Satan. Wrongly insinuating that God cannot tell the difference between those who are His, and this contrary to what is EXPLICITLY stated in Revelation.
    Fourthly, it gives a FALSE comfort for itching ears. It suggests peace and safety on a physical level when our peace and safety is NOT as the world gives it.
    It would seem that I missed your posting as it was posted just minutes before mine. I will let my arguments stand as in many cases you do not refute me with commentary on verses. Also, we seem to agree on some points. I will just answer three points.

    Revelation 12:12.
    The immediate context is those brethren who OVERCAME Satan and make up the Man-Child raptured to heaven. The remainder of the context is "the REMAINDER of the seed of the Woman. Those left on earth. So verse 12, taken in context, addresses THEM. Satan hates all men because it is the "seed of the woman" in Genesis 3 that will be his downfall. But Satan is not so foolish as to destroy his own lackeys - the Beast, the ten kings etc,. The wrath of Satan in Revelation 12 is aimed at the REMNANT or REMAINDER of the Woman's seed - not all men. It is aimed at "those that dwell on earth" AS OPPOSED to those raptured to the Throne. It is a grand lesson, once learned, to always use scripture within its context.

    The Parable of the Tares.
    The Parable of the Tares does not show SECULAR rule on earth. It shows RELIGION as it will unfold during the age of Grace. The Wheat is sown by the Son of Man - showing Christianity (and I mean those born again by Christ - Jn.12:24). The Tares are sown in parallel and look like, in all respects, Christianity. But they are of another seed - the seed of Satan. Because they look like Christianity, have the name of Jesus but not His substance, they form that vast RELIGIOUS COUNTERFEIT that men see on earth today - viz. the Roman Catholic Church. So when we come to the DESTINY of these TWO SEEDS, we look for the destiny of TWO RELIGIOUS seeds. And this is found NOT AT ARMAGEDDON, for that is the SECULAR Change of World Government, BUT IT IS FOUND IN THE DEMISE OF MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT WHORE in Revelation Chapter 17. AND SHE IS DESTROYED BEFORE THE MAN OF PERDITION IS WORSHIPED. The Ten Kings give their power to the beast for WORSHIP and REMOVE the Whore because she is in competition with the Beast. In this, the Parable of the Wheat and Tares is absolutely accurate. Mystery Babylon the WHORE - the COUNTERFEIT RELIGION of the World is harvest FIRST.

    Revelation Chapter 18.
    When I said "Commercial Babylon" or "The world's money system", I meant the destruction of Babylon THE GREAT in Revelation Chapter 18. You will notice that there, GOD DESTROYS IT. The world's money, the lve of which is the root of all evil, is diametrically opposed to God as provider of men. Men rely on money. But it is God who supplies men, animals and birds. The "world" is at odds with God. And so God makes it His Personal vendetta to destroy His opposing system. It has nothing to do with the Rapture, but it might help in understanding the sequence and what is destroyed in Chapter 17 and Chapter 18 of Revelation.

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Thames, New Zealand
    Posts
    2,154
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: The Prophetic Word

    Walls, your posts are always made with the premise that the Church will be taken to heaven in a 'rapture'.
    I do not see this happening anywhere in the Bible. There is a transportation from wherever those who remain are to where Jesus is at His Return. 1 Thess 4:17
    What I do see, is many prophesies that tell how all the faithful Christians will gather and live in all of the holy Land. They; the holy people of God will be here when the Anti-Christ conquers them 3 1/2 years before Jesus Returns, Daniel 7:23-25, Revelation 13:5-8
    As Revelation 12:14-17 says; of the holy People, all the Christian peoples in the holy Land, half will be taken to a place of safety on earth and the other half must remain under persecution. Paralleled by Zechariah 14:1-2 and Daniel 11:32-35

    So I must ask for proofs of your basic premise. Scriptures that infer, seem to and that you believe; mean a 'rapture', are not good enough. Ones like; We are not appointed to God's wrath, do not say or even hint that to avoid God's wrath, removal is necessary. Dozens of scriptures tell us how the Lord will protect His own during His wrath.

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    218

    Re: The Prophetic Word

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    Walls, your posts are always made with the premise that the Church will be taken to heaven in a 'rapture'.
    I do not see this happening anywhere in the Bible. There is a transportation from wherever those who remain are to where Jesus is at His Return. 1 Thess 4:17
    What I do see, is many prophesies that tell how all the faithful Christians will gather and live in all of the holy Land. They; the holy people of God will be here when the Anti-Christ conquers them 3 1/2 years before Jesus Returns, Daniel 7:23-25, Revelation 13:5-8
    As Revelation 12:14-17 says; of the holy People, all the Christian peoples in the holy Land, half will be taken to a place of safety on earth and the other half must remain under persecution. Paralleled by Zechariah 14:1-2 and Daniel 11:32-35

    So I must ask for proofs of your basic premise. Scriptures that infer, seem to and that you believe; mean a 'rapture', are not good enough. Ones like; We are not appointed to God's wrath, do not say or even hint that to avoid God's wrath, removal is necessary. Dozens of scriptures tell us how the Lord will protect His own during His wrath.
    Let me help you clear the mud out of your eyes.

    At the end of the Olivet Discourse, Matthew, Mark, & Luke all give a summarial conclusion to the things that Jesus told them about would happen. It's known as the parable of the fig tree.
    Matthew said this:

    *[[Mat 24:33]] KJV* So likewise ye, when ye shall see ALL these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

    Mark said this:

    *[[Mar 13:29]] KJV* So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors.

    But Luke said this:

    *[[Luk 21:31]] KJV* So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.

    He said that the KOG would only be NEAR at that time. But don't get any false notions here. Matthew used the word all, as in everything. So what does that word everything include?

    But let's not get things out of order and fail to define when the kingdom of God shall come. It comes at the sounding of the 7th trumpet.

    Verse list:
    Rev 11:15-18 KJVLite And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

    The sounding of the 7th trumpet brings both the kingdom of God AND the wrath of God. You might be inclined to say that the wrath of God comes at the 6th seal.

    *[[Rev 6:17]] KJV* For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

    But here in Rev 6, the words "wrath is come" is in the aorist tense. In Rev 11:18 "wrath is come" is in the aorist participle tense. The aorist tense means that the time of action (of the verb) is NOT defined. But an aorist participle gives a simple, yet not continuous, declaration of the time of action of the verb. In this case, AT the sounding of the 7th trumpet. Because of the sun going dark and the MOON turning into blood red color, is one of the 7 sound that are to take place BEFORE the DOTL comes, as recorded in the book of Joel (namely chapter 1 and 2), the world thinks that the DOTL has come when the 6th seal is opened. But all of the things that Joel tells us about [wonders of heaven, blood, fire, pillars of smoke, darkened sun, blood moon, an army of horses and horsemen, earthquake, and Elijah (Mal 4:5)], are ALL found in the discourse of the trumpets (Rev 8,9,10 & 11).

    Joel 2:2 says that the DOTL will be unequaled in all of history:

    *[[Joe 2:2]] KJV* A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.

    So, with Luke & Matthew saying that all these things would take place BEFORE the kingdom of God comes, what do we find in the list of events?

    Matthew says:

    *[[Mat 24:30]] KJV* And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

    Mark says:
    *[[Mar 13:26]] KJV* And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

    Luke says:
    *[[Luk 21:27]] KJV* And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

    All three of them say that Jesus will be seen coming on a cloud(s) with great power and glory. All three day that this will take place BEFORE the kingdom of God comes. Luke didn't say that it takes place AT that time. He said that the KOG would be nigh, meaning that it is something separate and yet to happen. Now, I will grant you that it only mentions Jesus coming with clouds and power and glory, but you can't get around saying that it does not happen BEFORE the kingdom of God shall come. Make no mistake about it. Paul says that the dead in Christ are raised and the living will be changed... when Jesus comes with the clouds.

    Verse list:
    1Th 4:15-18 KJVLite For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

    Be Blessed.
    The PuP

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Thames, New Zealand
    Posts
    2,154
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: The Prophetic Word

    Nice try, The Pup.
    There is no 'mud in my eyes', I see quite clearly the end time events as written by all the Prophets.
    I see that there is no time that we humans leave this earth, except for the souls of those killed for their faith, that Jesus will bring back with Him and will resurrect then. Revelation 20:4
    The rest of the dead must await the GWTJ, after the Millennium. Then God Himself will come to dwell with mankind on earth. Revelation 21:1-7

    Re The Son of Man coming in His glory; Revelation 16:14-17 plainly states it will happen at the Seventh Bowl, NOT the Seventh Trumpet. Revelation 11:15 just states that Jesus has the Sovereignty, but He has yet to Return and take it up.
    The Day of His Return, Revelation 19:11, commences the Millennium of the Kingdom of Jesus. After 1000 years, He will hand it back to the Father. 1 Cor 15:24

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    218

    Re: The Prophetic Word

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    Nice try, The Pup.
    There is no 'mud in my eyes', I see quite clearly the end time events as written by all the Prophets.
    I see that there is no time that we humans leave this earth, except for the souls of those killed for their faith, that Jesus will bring back with Him and will resurrect then. Revelation 20:4
    The rest of the dead must await the GWTJ, after the Millennium. Then God Himself will come to dwell with mankind on earth. Revelation 21:1-7

    Re The Son of Man coming in His glory; Revelation 16:14-17 plainly states it will happen at the Seventh Bowl, NOT the Seventh Trumpet. Revelation 11:15 just states that Jesus has the Sovereignty, but He has yet to Return and take it up.
    The Day of His Return, Revelation 19:11, commences the Millennium of the Kingdom of Jesus. After 1000 years, He will hand it back to the Father. 1 Cor 15:24
    The 7th trumpet is the DOTL and the arrival of the kingdom, not the day of his coming. Luke tells us that Jerusalem shall be trodden down in those days until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. And John tells us that it is 42 months. But you miss muy point. In agreement with Luke saying that the KOG does not come with observation, Matthew & Mark says that no man knows THAT DAY (not even the Son). Matt, Mark & Luke all say that Christ comes in the clouds with power and glory BEFORE that day arrives. This means that he comes at least 42 months before Armageddon. This is what Daniel 7 says. The children of Israel are given into the hands of the beast & his kingdom for a time, times and the dividing of time. This is after the kingdom of God is set up. There is no mention of the beast or his kingdom in the Olivet Discourse because it's not included. The abomination of desolation is among the events that will take place before the kingdom of God comes. It (AoD) has absolutely nothing to do with the beast and his kingdom. This is what Paul is telling the Thessalonians in 2 Thess 2 when he says that goods wrath comes when the man of sin is revealed, which can't happen until the kingdom of God comes. The parousia (coming) of Christ takes place before that day. Matthew & Mark includes the gathering of the elect as precursors to "that day" coming. This is when the kingdom of God comes for John says "is come" (aorist participle, meaning the moment the 7th trumpet sounds) to judge the dead and gives reward unto the prophets and saints, not to mention his wrath too. The kingdom comes at that time, but his coming to rule with a rod off iron will come later at Armageddon . Paul, by dating "I beseech you by the coming and gathering together", is saying that the day of Christ shall not come (be present, enistemi) until the parousia and gathering together happens, and that man of sin is revealed.

    Be Blessed.
    The PuP

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    5,744

    Re: The Prophetic Word

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    Walls, your posts are always made with the premise that the Church will be taken to heaven in a 'rapture'.
    I do not see this happening anywhere in the Bible. There is a transportation from wherever those who remain are to where Jesus is at His Return. 1 Thess 4:17
    What I do see, is many prophesies that tell how all the faithful Christians will gather and live in all of the holy Land. They; the holy people of God will be here when the Anti-Christ conquers them 3 1/2 years before Jesus Returns, Daniel 7:23-25, Revelation 13:5-8
    As Revelation 12:14-17 says; of the holy People, all the Christian peoples in the holy Land, half will be taken to a place of safety on earth and the other half must remain under persecution. Paralleled by Zechariah 14:1-2 and Daniel 11:32-35

    So I must ask for proofs of your basic premise. Scriptures that infer, seem to and that you believe; mean a 'rapture', are not good enough. Ones like; We are not appointed to God's wrath, do not say or even hint that to avoid God's wrath, removal is necessary. Dozens of scriptures tell us how the Lord will protect His own during His wrath.
    Brother, if you believe 1st Thessalonians 4:17 then the destination is NOT the Holy Land. It is THE CLOUDS and THE AIR.

    The word "RETURN" you used is not wrong, but scripture uses, in verse 15 of the same Chapter, "PAROUSIA". "Parousia" means His "PRESENCE". On our Lord's journey to earth for His RETURN, He will pause in the clouds and be PRESENT in the air to receive His Church and judge them. Then, ALL TOGETHER they will return to earth (V.14). He will RETURN to earth but on His way He will pause in the clouds and be PRESENT there for some time to judge millions of Christians. Then, when He ARRIVES on earth (Erchomai - Gk.) He will have the saints with Him (Jude 1:14).

    As to God protecting His people who pass through the Great Tribulation, which is His wrath (10 times in Revelation), you must make a difference between KEEPING THEM FROM, and KEEPING THEM IN. Scripture is careful to do this. Israel wander in the Wilderness for 40 years. Deuteronomy 8:2-6 records how God KEPT them IN the Wilderness. But He admits that it was a place of hunger, thirst, danger and chastisement. But if, as Israel thought, God would have led them via "the way of the Philistines" (Ex.13:17), He would have kept them FROM the tortures of the Wilderness. Again, when Korah rebelled against Moses, God said to all Israel to remove themselves FROM near Korah because if they were PRESENT with Korah the fire meant for Korah would get them TOO. In Revelation 18, which shows the end of the world occult money system the Lord says in Revelation 18:4, "And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." Implicit in this inspired warning is that if God's people did not remove them selves from Mystery Babylon the Great (TRADER), they would partake of her plagues.

    So let it be known that any of the Jewish Remnant, or Christian, who is left on earth during the Great Tribulation, will suffer the torment. Those in Revelation Chapter 7 of the Tribes of Israel must be SEALED so as not to be HURT (Rev.9:4). Why? because their is no rapture for Israel. But those of Revelation 7 from "all nations" and who are connected to Jesus, "... shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes" (Rev.7:16-17). Does this sound like Christ's salvation? Or does it sound like they went through proverbial "hell" and must be comforted, fed and watered?

    So when we come to the promises of scripture concerning this time, Revelation 3:10 says; "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth." This is what Strong tells us of this Greek word "ek". Root: a primary preposition denoting origin (the point whence action or motion proceeds), from, out of place, time, or cause, literal or figurative." (Strong's Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.) The verse,
    • is addressed to a Church - BELIEVERS
    • calls on BELIEVERS to OVERCOME a fallen situation IN THE CHURCH
    • singles out those who have not apostatized themselves but have "kept the word of My patience" - a small group of the WHOLE
    • promises them reward to "keeping the word of Christ's patience"
    • promise the reward of being KEPT FROM the time that the earth goes through trial
    • indicates that the trial will come on ALL the world
    • indicates that the trial will touch ANYBODY who DWELLS on the earth at that time

    There is no escaping the simple and plain language and implications of this verse. It concerns that time "when Christ comes SUDDENLY" (v.11). It is a warning. It is a promise of reward. This reward is CONDITIONAL. The language says "KEPT FROM".

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Thames, New Zealand
    Posts
    2,154
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: The Prophetic Word

    Quote Originally Posted by Pesachpup View Post
    The 7th trumpet is the DOTL and the arrival of the kingdom, not the day of his coming. Luke tells us that Jerusalem shall be trodden down in those days until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. And John tells us that it is 42 months. But you miss muy point. In agreement with Luke saying that the KOG does not come with observation, Matthew & Mark says that no man knows THAT DAY (not even the Son). Matt, Mark & Luke all say that Christ comes in the clouds with power and glory BEFORE that day arrives. This means that he comes at least 42 months before Armageddon. This is what Daniel 7 says. The children of Israel are given into the hands of the beast & his kingdom for a time, times and the dividing of time. This is after the kingdom of God is set up. There is no mention of the beast or his kingdom in the Olivet Discourse because it's not included. The abomination of desolation is among the events that will take place before the kingdom of God comes. It (AoD) has absolutely nothing to do with the beast and his kingdom. This is what Paul is telling the Thessalonians in 2 Thess 2 when he says that goods wrath comes when the man of sin is revealed, which can't happen until the kingdom of God comes. The parousia (coming) of Christ takes place before that day. Matthew & Mark includes the gathering of the elect as precursors to "that day" coming. This is when the kingdom of God comes for John says "is come" (aorist participle, meaning the moment the 7th trumpet sounds) to judge the dead and gives reward unto the prophets and saints, not to mention his wrath too. The kingdom comes at that time, but his coming to rule with a rod off iron will come later at Armageddon . Paul, by dating "I beseech you by the coming and gathering together", is saying that the day of Christ shall not come (be present, enistemi) until the parousia and gathering together happens, and that man of sin is revealed.

    Be Blessed.
    The PuP
    Jesus doesn't Return at the Seventh Trumpet; NOR does the Kingdom arrive then. This fact is proved by Revelation 19:11-21 and Matthew 24:29-30
    When Jesus Returns He will send our His angels to gather His people to him. Again: Matthew 24:28-31 proves this. Thinking there will be the Kingdom or a gathering to Jesus, beore He physically Returns, is error.

    The dead are not judged until after the Millennium, at the GWT and our rewards are given out after Jesus has Returned. Matthew 16:27

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Thames, New Zealand
    Posts
    2,154
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: The Prophetic Word

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    Brother, if you believe 1st Thessalonians 4:17 then the destination is NOT the Holy Land. It is THE CLOUDS and THE AIR.

    The word "RETURN" you used is not wrong, but scripture uses, in verse 15 of the same Chapter, "PAROUSIA". "Parousia" means His "PRESENCE". On our Lord's journey to earth for His RETURN, He will pause in the clouds and be PRESENT in the air to receive His Church and judge them. Then, ALL TOGETHER they will return to earth (V.14). He will RETURN to earth but on His way He will pause in the clouds and be PRESENT there for some time to judge millions of Christians. Then, when He ARRIVES on earth (Erchomai - Gk.) He will have the saints with Him (Jude 1:14). .
    The prophecy of Paul's about meeting Jesus in the clouds, is a contentious one. Are Christians judged then? I do not think so, the verse does not say that.
    Actually I believe that this meeting may be the marriage and the feast as described in Revelation 19:5-9

    God's protection during His wrath is prophesied dozens of times. The example of the 3 men in the furnace demonstrates how He can and will do it. Isaiah 41:13, Isaiah 43:2, Psalms 91, Zechariah 9:15-16, +

    Everyone will be on earth during the Great Tribulation of the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls, but those who Christians who refused to agree to a peace treaty with the Anti-Christ, Daniel 11:32-35 will be taken to a place of safety on earth for those 1260 days. Revelation 12:14
    Those who did agree to it, must remain. Revelation 12:17, Zechariah 14:2

    Revelation 7:15-17 is a prophecy about Eternity. Proved by how God will wipe away every tear then. Revelation 21:4

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. New here Prophetic Watchers
    By saltyfun in forum Introductions
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: Nov 28th 2011, 01:17 PM
  2. Why Are We So Uncomfortable with the Prophetic?
    By ProjectPeter in forum Bible Chat
    Replies: 42
    Last Post: Dec 9th 2010, 07:27 PM
  3. Information The Prophetic- An FYI
    By amazzin in forum Bible Chat
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: Oct 21st 2010, 03:35 AM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •