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Thread: Has the Blindness of Israel been removed or not?

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    Has the Blindness of Israel been removed or not?

    God spoke through Isaiah:

    chapter 6:9 And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.

    This became a recurring theme throughout the Bible; paraphrased by other OT prophets and NT Apostles. A lot has been said about this topic, but I'm hoping for a rethink and review of our understanding of our understanding of the passage.

    My question therefore is, has this blindness of heart been removed from Israel or not? If you believe it has, what is your scriptural evidence? The same goes for those who believe it is not yet removed.

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    Re: Has the Blindness of Israel been removed or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    God spoke through Isaiah:

    chapter 6:9 [FONT="]And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.[/FONT]10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.

    This became a recurring theme throughout the Bible; paraphrased by other OT prophets and NT Apostles. A lot has been said about this topic, but I'm hoping for a rethink and review of our understanding of our understanding of the passage.

    My question therefore is, has this blindness of heart been removed from Israel or not? If you believe it has, what is your scriptural evidence? The same goes for those who believe it is not yet removed.
    Yes

    Rom 11:31 In the same way, because of the mercy that you have received, the Jews now disobey God, in order that they also may now receive God's mercy.
    Rom 11:32 For God has made all people prisoners of disobedience, so that he might show mercy to them all.

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    Re: Has the Blindness of Israel been removed or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalahari View Post
    Yes

    Rom 11:31 In the same way, because of the mercy that you have received, the Jews now disobey God, in order that they also may now receive God's mercy.
    Rom 11:32 For God has made all people prisoners of disobedience, so that he might show mercy to them all.
    Yes - as in Israel's blindness has been removed or not? Please clarify...

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    Re: Has the Blindness of Israel been removed or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Yes - as in Israel's blindness has been removed or not? Please clarify...
    Yes the blindness has been removed.

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    Re: Has the Blindness of Israel been removed or not?

    No blindness has not been removed YET...… a day in the future it will be removed.

    EZ 36:26
    22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, thus saith the Lord God; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.
    23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord, saith the Lord God, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.
    24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
    25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
    26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

    Joel 2
    27 And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the Lord your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.
    28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

  6. #6

    Re: Has the Blindness of Israel been removed or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    God spoke through Isaiah:

    chapter 6:9 [FONT="]And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.[/FONT][FONT="]10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.

    This became a recurring theme throughout the Bible; paraphrased by other OT prophets and NT Apostles. A lot has been said about this topic, but I'm hoping for a rethink and review of our understanding of our understanding of the passage.

    My question therefore is, has this blindness of heart been removed from Israel or not? If you believe it has, what is your scriptural evidence? The same goes for those who believe it is not yet removed.[/FONT]

    it can be it is Christ who heals the blind

    “Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament;

    which veil is done away in Christ.

    But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the veil shall be taken away. Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.”
    **2 Corinthians‬ *3:12-18‬ *KJV‬‬

    thier blindness was to the messiah , the kingdom didn't change when they rejected Jesus ....but was then opened up into gentile as well as Jew...remember Paul , Peter, John , James ...all Jewish men.

    “For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

    How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; ...Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
    **Ephesians‬ *3:1, 3, 5-6‬ *KJV‬‬

    there's no difference Jew and gentile Israelite and Greek..what determines everything is faith

    “For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
    **Galatians‬ *3:26-29‬ *KJV‬‬


    “Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

    But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

    And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

    For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.”
    **Ephesians‬ *2:11-22‬ *KJV‬‬


    Blindness comes when a person Israelite or not rejects the gospel. Even if they are looking at Moses Israels blindness came from

    “Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

    Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which veil is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart.

    Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the veil shall be taken away. Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.”
    **2 Corinthians‬ *3:6, 12-18‬ *KJV‬‬


    it's only Jesus there's nothing else offered or coming later if we remain blind to him, there's no light....













    the blindness of Israel has

  7. #7

    Re: Has the Blindness of Israel been removed or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    God spoke through Isaiah:

    chapter 6:9 [FONT="]And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.[/FONT]10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.

    This became a recurring theme throughout the Bible; paraphrased by other OT prophets and NT Apostles. A lot has been said about this topic, but I'm hoping for a rethink and review of our understanding of our understanding of the passage.

    My question therefore is, has this blindness of heart been removed from Israel or not? If you believe it has, what is your scriptural evidence? The same goes for those who believe it is not yet removed.
    I personally do not think the blindness (as a whole) has been removed, or at least in full. Paul says, "that blindness in part that has happened to Israel", and concludes by saying, "And so all Israel shall be saved".

    When the blindness is removed, then much of Israel will see Jesus as Messiah. I do realize that there are many Jews and people in Israel that have been converted to Christ, but looking at the bigger picture, do you believe Israel (as a whole) have come to Christ?

    Generally speaking, would you say that Israel (as a whole) have come to Jesus?

    Romans 11:
    25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
    26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

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    Re: Has the Blindness of Israel been removed or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    God spoke through Isaiah:

    chapter 6:9 [FONT="]And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.[/FONT]10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.

    This became a recurring theme throughout the Bible; paraphrased by other OT prophets and NT Apostles. A lot has been said about this topic, but I'm hoping for a rethink and review of our understanding of our understanding of the passage.

    My question therefore is, has this blindness of heart been removed from Israel or not? If you believe it has, what is your scriptural evidence? The same goes for those who believe it is not yet removed.
    No. I believe that blindness has come upon Israel at different phases in their history. Keep in mind that Israel is the prototype for the world as a nation dedicated strictly to God. It was intended to be a theocracy, which is a bad word nowadays. This just shows how far Christian nations have fallen from the ideal as well.

    Anyway, at various times in Israel's ancient history the majority wandered away from the truth, and developed "group think." They became enamored with the ways of the flesh, adopting a view of God or gods that would enable them to keep their independence from God. They became "blind," just as Samson did when he began to experiment with going his own way.

    None of these historical episodes with blindness meant that all Israel had to be blind. It was just a general statement about the then-present condition of the nation. Most of them had become spiritually blind, and turning away from God they no longer heard from God. (They were deaf as well.)

    In the NT era Israel has continued along the path of blindness, with the vast majority continuing with "group think," denying that Jesus was their Messiah. They have persisted in the way of the flesh--in the ways of independence from God, even though many of them actually believe they are serving God.

    The Jewish People have now been in this "blind" condition for so long now that many Christians believe that they have been cast off forever from God, and no longer have a place in biblical prophecy. It is thought that as a people they will never again regroup as a nation of God.

    However, Scriptures indicate that God's promise to Abraham about them is forever, and that despite the great length of time the nation will be reconstituted as a godly nation. They will one day no longer be spiritually blind. I believe Zechariah speaks of that day in the last few chapters of Zechariah. And the book of Revelation begins with a quote of that Zechariah passage, referring to Israel's restoration as something that awakens the whole world.

    Rev 1.7
    “Look, he is coming with the clouds,”
    and “every eye will see him,
    even those who pierced him”;
    and all peoples on earth “will mourn because of him.”
    So shall it be! Amen.

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    Re: Has the Blindness of Israel been removed or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalahari View Post
    Yes the blindness has been removed.
    Great. I concur too.

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    Re: Has the Blindness of Israel been removed or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    No blindness has not been removed YET...… a day in the future it will be removed.

    EZ 36:26
    22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, thus saith the Lord God; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.
    23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord, saith the Lord God, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.
    24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
    25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
    26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

    Joel 2
    27 And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the Lord your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.
    28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
    Sorry, it has long been removed. When God asked Isaiah to tell Israel that they will hear and not understand, see and not perceive, etc. Isaiah was understandably alarmed and consequently asked God how long this will last? Let's see scripture:

    Isaiah 6:8 Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.

    9 And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.

    10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.

    11 Then said I, Lord, how long? And he answered, Until the cities be wasted without inhabitant, and the houses without man, and the land be utterly desolate,

    12 And the Lord have removed men far away, and there be a great forsaking in the midst of the land.


    God never said the blindness will remain until the end times! You quoted Ezekiel who, like other Prophets and NT apostles merely referenced Isaiah who received the message directly from God. Upon Isaiah's enquiry on the length of the blindness, God responded in v-12 that it will remain until Israel is taken away as captives.

    It's better to pay attention to scripture than to jump on the popular bandwagon which is often an erroneous interpretation of the text.

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    Re: Has the Blindness of Israel been removed or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower1977 View Post
    it can be it is Christ who heals the blind

    “Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament;

    which veil is done away in Christ.

    But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the veil shall be taken away. Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.”
    **2 Corinthians‬ *3:12-18‬ *KJV‬‬

    thier blindness was to the messiah , the kingdom didn't change when they rejected Jesus ....but was then opened up into gentile as well as Jew...remember Paul , Peter, John , James ...all Jewish men.

    “For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

    How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; ...Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
    **Ephesians‬ *3:1, 3, 5-6‬ *KJV‬‬

    there's no difference Jew and gentile Israelite and Greek..what determines everything is faith

    “For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
    **Galatians‬ *3:26-29‬ *KJV‬‬


    “Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

    But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

    And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

    For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.”
    **Ephesians‬ *2:11-22‬ *KJV‬‬


    Blindness comes when a person Israelite or not rejects the gospel. Even if they are looking at Moses Israels blindness came from

    “Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

    Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which veil is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart.

    Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the veil shall be taken away. Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.”
    **2 Corinthians‬ *3:6, 12-18‬ *KJV‬‬

    it's only Jesus there's nothing else offered or coming later if we remain blind to him, there's no light....the blindness of Israel has
    I must commend your insight and research. You have certainly provided more than is sufficient to convince those genuinely in search of the truth. I really hope this will change the minds of those who claim God still blinded their heart.

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    Re: Has the Blindness of Israel been removed or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by TMarcum View Post
    I personally do not think the blindness (as a whole) has been removed, or at least in full. Paul says, "that blindness in part that has happened to Israel", and concludes by saying, "And so all Israel shall be saved".

    When the blindness is removed, then much of Israel will see Jesus as Messiah. I do realize that there are many Jews and people in Israel that have been converted to Christ, but looking at the bigger picture, do you believe Israel (as a whole) have come to Christ?

    Generally speaking, would you say that Israel (as a whole) have come to Jesus?

    Romans 11:
    25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
    26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
    Like you, I too relied on Rom 11 to argue that their blindness is still on. But I have been recently forced to review my position. As I stated in an earlier post, Isaiah pointedly asked God "how long" the blindness will be (Isaiah 6:11-12)? And God answered that it will be until Israel has been taken captive (Babylonian/Assyrian exile). God went further to say that a remnant (a tenth of the number taken away) shall return v-13.

    This raises the question of whether Paul actually meant that Israel is in unbelief because God has blinded them? I don't think that what he meant. Because Paul said the following concerning Israel and their blindness:

    2 Cor 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
    2 Cor 3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
    2 Cor 3:16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.


    1. Paul says their blindness is removed in Christ, v-14.
    2. In v-15, he says that the veil continues to blind their eyes and their heart as they continue to follow the law in defiance to the sacrifice of Christ.
    3. Verse 16, and here is the clincher: it says when a Jew accepts Christ, the blindness/veil is taken away.

    It's imperative that we recognise the order; it doesn't say the blindness will first be removed BEFORE a Jew believes. Rather, he must first believe and then through his expression of faith/belief, his blindness is removed. If this is not the case, why would God blind them to the truth and still blame them for unbelief? Do you think God is that, unfair? If the blindness must be removed before they believe, then God must have been selective in those he removed their blindness i.e. the Apostles and all Jewish converts from the 1st century to date.

  13. #13

    Re: Has the Blindness of Israel been removed or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Like you, I too relied on Rom 11 to argue that their blindness is still on. But I have been recently forced to review my position. As I stated in an earlier post, Isaiah pointedly asked God "how long" the blindness will be (Isaiah 6:11-12)? And God answered that it will be until Israel has been taken captive (Babylonian/Assyrian exile). God went further to say that a remnant (a tenth of the number taken away) shall return v-13.

    This raises the question of whether Paul actually meant that Israel is in unbelief because God has blinded them? I don't think that what he meant. Because Paul said the following concerning Israel and their blindness:

    2 Cor 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
    2 Cor 3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
    2 Cor 3:16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.


    1. Paul says their blindness is removed in Christ, v-14.
    2. In v-15, he says that the veil continues to blind their eyes and their heart as they continue to follow the law in defiance to the sacrifice of Christ.
    3. Verse 16, and here is the clincher: it says when a Jew accepts Christ, the blindness/veil is taken away.

    It's imperative that we recognize the order; it doesn't say the blindness will first be removed BEFORE a Jew believes. Rather, he must first believe and then through his expression of faith/belief, his blindness is removed. If this is not the case, why would God blind them to the truth and still blame them for unbelief? Do you think God is that, unfair? If the blindness must be removed before they believe, then God must have been selective in those he removed their blindness i.e. the Apostles and all Jewish converts from the 1st century to date.
    The Remanent were those, who were of the seed of Judah that survived Babylonian captivity that would allow to produce the offspring of Jesus. The rest were all but wiped out. But God said that a remnant would be saved.


    But No, the prophecy of blindness was not fulfilled during the time of Jesus, only that when Jesus was there teaching Jew and people of Israel that there were indeed people of Israel who were blinded. He could not teach them direct words of the truth because they were blinded. Therefore, he spoke in parables. The part regarding the blindness in the prophecy of Isaiah 6:11-12, is prophecy fulfilled in the part that Jesus was dealing with blinded people, and when he spoke to them, he spoke in parables. But he never opened their eyes. Only his disciples eyes were opened.

    It was meant for his disciples to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to the scribes and pharisees, it was not. They were of the stiffneck group and did not accept Jesus, even in light of his miracles. Still, they asked from him a sign. They said, if you are the son of God, show us a sign. This was in the mist of them witnessing all the miracles he did. They still asked for a sign. Jesus said, an evil and stiff neck generation seeks a sign. But he said destroy this temple and in 3 days will I raise it up. That was their sign. Which was his resurrection.

    Matthew 13:
    10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
    11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
    12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
    13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
    14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
    15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
    16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
    17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

    So no my friend, they are still blinded. Only a small portion of Israel (in comparison to Israel as a whole) were converted to Christianity. Yeah, 5000 souls were added to the church at the day of Pentecost. That is just a drop in the bucket compared to those who did not convert. And in my opinion was necessary as eye witnesses in order for history to be written; that indeed, a man named Jesus lived, was crucified, seen by many after he was risen, was seen being ascended into Heaven in the clouds.

    But Israel is and has been blinded from the days of Isaiah until now.

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    Re: Has the Blindness of Israel been removed or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    No. I believe that blindness has come upon Israel at different phases in their history. Keep in mind that Israel is the prototype for the world as a nation dedicated strictly to God. It was intended to be a theocracy, which is a bad word nowadays. This just shows how far Christian nations have fallen from the ideal as well.

    Anyway, at various times in Israel's ancient history the majority wandered away from the truth, and developed "group think." They became enamored with the ways of the flesh, adopting a view of God or gods that would enable them to keep their independence from God. They became "blind," just as Samson did when he began to experiment with going his own way.

    None of these historical episodes with blindness meant that all Israel had to be blind. It was just a general statement about the then-present condition of the nation. Most of them had become spiritually blind, and turning away from God they no longer heard from God. (They were deaf as well.)

    In the NT era Israel has continued along the path of blindness, with the vast majority continuing with "group think," denying that Jesus was their Messiah. They have persisted in the way of the flesh--in the ways of independence from God, even though many of them actually believe they are serving God.

    The Jewish People have now been in this "blind" condition for so long now that many Christians believe that they have been cast off forever from God, and no longer have a place in biblical prophecy. It is thought that as a people they will never again regroup as a nation of God.

    However, Scriptures indicate that God's promise to Abraham about them is forever, and that despite the great length of time the nation will be reconstituted as a godly nation. They will one day no longer be spiritually blind. I believe Zechariah speaks of that day in the last few chapters of Zechariah. And the book of Revelation begins with a quote of that Zechariah passage, referring to Israel's restoration as something that awakens the whole world.

    Rev 1.7
    “Look, he is coming with the clouds,”
    and “every eye will see him,
    even those who pierced him”;
    and all peoples on earth “will mourn because of him.”
    So shall it be! Amen.
    I will start with your conclusion and work my way up. Rev 1:7 simply says that Israel like the Gentiles, will see Jesus coming in the clouds. I don't see it as God "removing their blindness". May I refer you to post #12 for the reasons I believe their blindness has been removed? Indeed, God's Abrahamic Covenant is everlasting, but it does not negate the requirement for them to believe in the Messiah. As Paul said in 2 Cor 3:16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away, they MUST accept Christ before the blindness is removed.

    I personally disagree with those who say that Israel has been cast off forever because Paul was emphatic that they *if* they believe, they will be grafted in again (Rom 11:23). Many OT prophets and NT Apostles quoted Isaiah. However, there is no evidence that God continued to blind them while at the same time, accuse them of unbelief. This doesn't sound like the God I serve.

    With regards to the gathering of Israel, that has already been fulfilled. What is remaining is for the minority that believes to turn to the majority. This I believe, will take a seismic event like the coming of the 2Ws and perhaps, Jesus Christ' supplication upon them (Zech 12:10).

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    Re: Has the Blindness of Israel been removed or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by TMarcum View Post
    The Remanent were those, who were of the seed of Judah that survived Babylonian captivity that would allow to produce the offspring of Jesus. The rest were all but wiped out. But God said that a remnant would be saved.


    But No, the prophecy of blindness was not fulfilled during the time of Jesus, only that when Jesus was there teaching Jew and people of Israel that there were indeed people of Israel who were blinded. He could not teach them direct words of the truth because they were blinded. Therefore, he spoke in parables. The part regarding the blindness in the prophecy of Isaiah 6:11-12, is prophecy fulfilled in the part that Jesus was dealing with blinded people, and when he spoke to them, he spoke in parables. But he never opened their eyes. Only his disciples eyes were opened.

    It was meant for his disciples to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to the scribes and pharisees, it was not. They were of the stiffneck group and did not accept Jesus, even in light of his miracles. Still, they asked from him a sign. They said, if you are the son of God, show us a sign. This was in the mist of them witnessing all the miracles he did. They still asked for a sign. Jesus said, an evil and stiff neck generation seeks a sign. But he said destroy this temple and in 3 days will I raise it up. That was their sign. Which was his resurrection.

    Matthew 13:
    10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
    11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
    12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
    13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
    14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
    15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
    16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
    17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

    So no my friend, they are still blinded. Only a small portion of Israel (in comparison to Israel as a whole) were converted to Christianity. Yeah, 5000 souls were added to the church at the day of Pentecost. That is just a drop in the bucket compared to those who did not convert. And in my opinion was necessary as eye witnesses in order for history to be written; that indeed, a man named Jesus lived, was crucified, seen by many after he was risen, was seen being ascended into Heaven in the clouds.

    But Israel is and has been blinded from the days of Isaiah until now.

    You are correct. All should know the times of the gentiles has yet occurred and definitely fulfilled. Simple but others are ignorant of the mystery still.

    Rev 11
    2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

    Rom 11
    25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.


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