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Thread: Will you stand on the right ? Or on the left?

  1. #1

    Will you stand on the right ? Or on the left?

    When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: ...And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.


    Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:


    For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.


    Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.


    Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.


    Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.


    And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.”
    **Matthew‬ *25:31-46‬ *KJV‬‬

    For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
    **2 Corinthians‬ *5:10-11‬ *KJV‬‬

    And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained;


    whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.”
    **Acts‬ *17:30-31‬ *KJV‬‬

    For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living. But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.”
    **Romans‬ *14:9-12‬ *KJV‬‬


    And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. Matthew 24:14


    ..Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds:


    To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;


    But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God.......In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.”
    **Romans‬ *2:4-11, 16‬ *KJV‬‬





    "He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.


    The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

    Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.”
    **Matthew‬ *13:37-43‬ *KJV‬‬


    “Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind: Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.


    So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”
    **Matthew‬ *13:47-50‬ *KJV‬‬



    It's not about our sins , but about how we treat other people , especially the least among us. We Christians are free from the law , but we will be judged according to the gospel , the words of Jesus Christ. Consider if today you were called to appear before the judge ....which group would you belong to based on what he says ?


    God bless just scripture to consider

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Europe
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    Re: Will you stand on the right ? Or on the left?

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower1977 View Post
    When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: ...And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.


    Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:


    For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.


    Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.


    Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.


    Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.


    And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.”
    **Matthew‬ *25:31-46‬ *KJV‬‬

    For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
    **2 Corinthians‬ *5:10-11‬ *KJV‬‬

    And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained;


    whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.”
    **Acts‬ *17:30-31‬ *KJV‬‬

    For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living. But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.”
    **Romans‬ *14:9-12‬ *KJV‬‬


    And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. Matthew 24:14


    ..Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds:


    To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;


    But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God.......In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.”
    **Romans‬ *2:4-11, 16‬ *KJV‬‬





    "He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.


    The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

    Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.”
    **Matthew‬ *13:37-43‬ *KJV‬‬


    “Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind: Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.


    So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”
    **Matthew‬ *13:47-50‬ *KJV‬‬



    It's not about our sins , but about how we treat other people , especially the least among us. We Christians are free from the law , but we will be judged according to the gospel , the words of Jesus Christ. Consider if today you were called to appear before the judge ....which group would you belong to based on what he says ?


    God bless just scripture to consider
    Well have you pointed out that ALL men must account for their WORKS. It is almost a lost theme in the Church. Just to set the various judgments in order, I propose that 1 Peter 4:17 is decisive. "For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?" And so the very first Person judged is the very House of God - Jesus. This is the judgment given by the Most High concerning Jesus in Philippians 2:5-11,

    5 "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
    6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
    7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
    8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
    9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
    10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth
    11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."


    Notice that the judgment is for what our Lord Jesus DID - His WORKS

    Next is us Christians. The judgment seat is not a THRONE for our Lord Jesus will be TRAVELING from above the highest heaven to earth and will pause in the clouds to judge His Church - God's House. We face the Bema ((Gk.). Romans 14:10 and 2nd Corinthians 5:10 say severally:
    10 "But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ."
    10 "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad."

    Notice again that we are judged for "what he hath DONE" - Works!

    Next is Israel. Israel is one of the Nations (Deut.11:23), but a special nation UNDER LAW. Romans 2:12 establishes ... "For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law."

    Next are the other Nations who survive the Great Tribulation. Matthew 25:31-46 starts with;
    31 "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
    32 And before him shall be gathered ALL NATIONS: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:"


    This time it is not the "Bema", for our Lord Jesus has reached earth, defeated the Beast, chastened Edom and established His THRONE (Gk.) on earth at Jerusalem. The criteria is how these of the NATIONS treated "the least of His brethren" during the Great Tribulation. Why "THE LEAST"? Because it is the slothful and sinful Christian who will be left on earth during the Great Tribulation and must be "help by the earth" (Rev.12:16).

    Again it is plain and easily understood. Those of the Nations who survive the Great Tribulation are judge by what they DID - their WORKS.

    A thousand years pass, and many die (Isa.65:20), especially in the final rebellion of Magog (Rev.20:7-9). Then God calls for Hades to give up her dead and a Great White THRONE (Gk.) is set up on earth. The dead "stand" - in resurrection and are judged - BY THEIR WORKS. Among them are Cain, and Hitler, and all the aborted babies of the Nations, plus those who died as infants and children, and those who were hacked to death in genocides. There are no Christians here for they were raised and judged as the house of God "when He came" (1st Cor.15:23). The Books OF WORKS are opened. The criteria is found in Isaiah 66:24. Did the person actively go against God, His people and His plans? If so, their portion is the Lake of Fire. If they are not found to have actively gone against God in their lifetime, short or long, they are allowed to be SUBJECTS of the Kingdom of God on the New Earth. And so is fulfilled the Promise to Abraham -

    3 "And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed."
    14 "And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed." (Genesis 12:3, 28:14)

    Who was IN Abraham? A Seed (Singular and Capital 'S') - Jesus! (Matt.1:1; Gal.3:16). Will ALL unbelievers go to Gehenna? NO! The Lord Jesus came as Abraham's Son to judge His ENEMIES and His FRIENDS. Hitler, who made it his business to take on the Jews will perish in the Lake of Fire, but the baby Tutsi of Rwanda who was chopped to pieces at age 1 year, will enter God's Kingdom on earth as a subject and be "blessed" by the righteous rule on earth, for this Kingdom is one of "Righteousness, Peace and Joy" (Rom.14:17)

    ALL men face judgment. All men will be alive when they are judged. Judgment begins in the house of God. Judgment ends wit the "rest of the dead" at the White Throne. ALL JUDGMENT IS FOR WORKS. The judgment of the Christian decides if he/she will be (i) a co-king with Jesus or not, and (ii) invited to the Wedding Feast with Christ or cast into Outer Darkness for a thousand years (Matthew 25:1-30).

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Pacific NW, USA
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    10,462

    Re: Will you stand on the right ? Or on the left?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    Well have you pointed out that ALL men must account for their WORKS. It is almost a lost theme in the Church. Just to set the various judgments in order, I propose that 1 Peter 4:17 is decisive. "For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?" And so the very first Person judged is the very House of God - Jesus. This is the judgment given by the Most High concerning Jesus in Philippians 2:5-11,

    5 "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
    6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
    7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
    8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
    9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
    10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth
    11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."


    Notice that the judgment is for what our Lord Jesus DID - His WORKS
    I know you're a Dispensationalist, but what do you mean when you say Jesus was judged by his works? He was perfect, right--sinless. How can he be judged by his works?

  4. #4

    Re: Will you stand on the right ? Or on the left?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    Well have you pointed out that ALL men must account for their WORKS. It is almost a lost theme in the Church. Just to set the various judgments in order, I propose that 1 Peter 4:17 is decisive. "For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?" And so the very first Person judged is the very House of God - Jesus. This is the judgment given by the Most High concerning Jesus in Philippians 2:5-11,

    5 "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
    6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
    7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
    8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
    9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
    10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth
    11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."


    Notice that the judgment is for what our Lord Jesus DID - His WORKS

    Next is us Christians. The judgment seat is not a THRONE for our Lord Jesus will be TRAVELING from above the highest heaven to earth and will pause in the clouds to judge His Church - God's House. We face the Bema ((Gk.). Romans 14:10 and 2nd Corinthians 5:10 say severally:
    10 "But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ."
    10 "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad."

    Notice again that we are judged for "what he hath DONE" - Works!

    Next is Israel. Israel is one of the Nations (Deut.11:23), but a special nation UNDER LAW. Romans 2:12 establishes ... "For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law."

    Next are the other Nations who survive the Great Tribulation. Matthew 25:31-46 starts with;
    31 "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
    32 And before him shall be gathered ALL NATIONS: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:"


    This time it is not the "Bema", for our Lord Jesus has reached earth, defeated the Beast, chastened Edom and established His THRONE (Gk.) on earth at Jerusalem. The criteria is how these of the NATIONS treated "the least of His brethren" during the Great Tribulation. Why "THE LEAST"? Because it is the slothful and sinful Christian who will be left on earth during the Great Tribulation and must be "help by the earth" (Rev.12:16).

    Again it is plain and easily understood. Those of the Nations who survive the Great Tribulation are judge by what they DID - their WORKS.

    A thousand years pass, and many die (Isa.65:20), especially in the final rebellion of Magog (Rev.20:7-9). Then God calls for Hades to give up her dead and a Great White THRONE (Gk.) is set up on earth. The dead "stand" - in resurrection and are judged - BY THEIR WORKS. Among them are Cain, and Hitler, and all the aborted babies of the Nations, plus those who died as infants and children, and those who were hacked to death in genocides. There are no Christians here for they were raised and judged as the house of God "when He came" (1st Cor.15:23). The Books OF WORKS are opened. The criteria is found in Isaiah 66:24. Did the person actively go against God, His people and His plans? If so, their portion is the Lake of Fire. If they are not found to have actively gone against God in their lifetime, short or long, they are allowed to be SUBJECTS of the Kingdom of God on the New Earth. And so is fulfilled the Promise to Abraham -

    3 "And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed."
    14 "And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed." (Genesis 12:3, 28:14)

    Who was IN Abraham? A Seed (Singular and Capital 'S') - Jesus! (Matt.1:1; Gal.3:16). Will ALL unbelievers go to Gehenna? NO! The Lord Jesus came as Abraham's Son to judge His ENEMIES and His FRIENDS. Hitler, who made it his business to take on the Jews will perish in the Lake of Fire, but the baby Tutsi of Rwanda who was chopped to pieces at age 1 year, will enter God's Kingdom on earth as a subject and be "blessed" by the righteous rule on earth, for this Kingdom is one of "Righteousness, Peace and Joy" (Rom.14:17)

    ALL men face judgment. All men will be alive when they are judged. Judgment begins in the house of God. Judgment ends wit the "rest of the dead" at the White Throne. ALL JUDGMENT IS FOR WORKS. The judgment of the Christian decides if he/she will be (i) a co-king with Jesus or not, and (ii) invited to the Wedding Feast with Christ or cast into Outer Darkness for a thousand years (Matthew 25:1-30).

    What's your point?

  5. #5

    Re: Will you stand on the right ? Or on the left?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    Well have you pointed out that ALL men must account for their WORKS. It is almost a lost theme in the Church. Just to set the various judgments in order, I propose that 1 Peter 4:17 is decisive. "For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?" And so the very first Person judged is the very House of God - Jesus. This is the judgment given by the Most High concerning Jesus in Philippians 2:5-11,

    5 "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
    6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
    7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
    8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
    9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
    10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth
    11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."


    Notice that the judgment is for what our Lord Jesus DID - His WORKS

    Next is us Christians. The judgment seat is not a THRONE for our Lord Jesus will be TRAVELING from above the highest heaven to earth and will pause in the clouds to judge His Church - God's House. We face the Bema ((Gk.). Romans 14:10 and 2nd Corinthians 5:10 say severally:
    10 "But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ."
    10 "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad."

    Notice again that we are judged for "what he hath DONE" - Works!

    Next is Israel. Israel is one of the Nations (Deut.11:23), but a special nation UNDER LAW. Romans 2:12 establishes ... "For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law."

    Next are the other Nations who survive the Great Tribulation. Matthew 25:31-46 starts with;
    31 "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
    32 And before him shall be gathered ALL NATIONS: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:"


    This time it is not the "Bema", for our Lord Jesus has reached earth, defeated the Beast, chastened Edom and established His THRONE (Gk.) on earth at Jerusalem. The criteria is how these of the NATIONS treated "the least of His brethren" during the Great Tribulation. Why "THE LEAST"? Because it is the slothful and sinful Christian who will be left on earth during the Great Tribulation and must be "help by the earth" (Rev.12:16).

    Again it is plain and easily understood. Those of the Nations who survive the Great Tribulation are judge by what they DID - their WORKS.

    A thousand years pass, and many die (Isa.65:20), especially in the final rebellion of Magog (Rev.20:7-9). Then God calls for Hades to give up her dead and a Great White THRONE (Gk.) is set up on earth. The dead "stand" - in resurrection and are judged - BY THEIR WORKS. Among them are Cain, and Hitler, and all the aborted babies of the Nations, plus those who died as infants and children, and those who were hacked to death in genocides. There are no Christians here for they were raised and judged as the house of God "when He came" (1st Cor.15:23). The Books OF WORKS are opened. The criteria is found in Isaiah 66:24. Did the person actively go against God, His people and His plans? If so, their portion is the Lake of Fire. If they are not found to have actively gone against God in their lifetime, short or long, they are allowed to be SUBJECTS of the Kingdom of God on the New Earth. And so is fulfilled the Promise to Abraham -

    3 "And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed."
    14 "And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed." (Genesis 12:3, 28:14)

    Who was IN Abraham? A Seed (Singular and Capital 'S') - Jesus! (Matt.1:1; Gal.3:16). Will ALL unbelievers go to Gehenna? NO! The Lord Jesus came as Abraham's Son to judge His ENEMIES and His FRIENDS. Hitler, who made it his business to take on the Jews will perish in the Lake of Fire, but the baby Tutsi of Rwanda who was chopped to pieces at age 1 year, will enter God's Kingdom on earth as a subject and be "blessed" by the righteous rule on earth, for this Kingdom is one of "Righteousness, Peace and Joy" (Rom.14:17)

    ALL men face judgment. All men will be alive when they are judged. Judgment begins in the house of God. Judgment ends wit the "rest of the dead" at the White Throne. ALL JUDGMENT IS FOR WORKS. The judgment of the Christian decides if he/she will be (i) a co-king with Jesus or not, and (ii) invited to the Wedding Feast with Christ or cast into Outer Darkness for a thousand years (Matthew 25:1-30).


    there's only one judge, for Jew or gentile well all be judged the same day

    “And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.”
    **Acts‬ *17:30-31‬ *KJV‬‬


    “And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.”
    **Acts‬ *10:42-44‬ *KJV‬‬

    I understand all the scholarly positions out there but there's just the one way for Jew or gentile there's no other salvation that will ever come from God to man , no other covenants , nothing but the gospel is available for salvation from the coming wrath upon mankind and even the earth itself. Jesus is Gods " ark" all we can do , being Christians whether Jewish or gentile , is jump on board with the gospel and grow in it.


    we will all be judged by what we each have done good or bad....repentance and forgiveness is now , judgement will come as a thief on the just one day of judgement for all mankind. We can accept Jesus Christ , the gospel which is his covenant sealed n his own blood are his eternal and unchanging words. Salvation available to all men whether Jewish, Greek , black , white , Asian, whether male or female , young or old, anyone can be saved .....but like Noah , we have to believe the flood is coming in order to simply repent and begin living the life Jesus taught. We have his atonement for our sins, his mercy that is renewed daily, we have his spirit available to us through the gospel , we have the comfort of his words like this


    “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one.”
    **John‬ *10:27-30‬ *KJV‬‬


    and all of the teachings which teach us " hear the gospel , learn the gospel , obey the gospel ...people don't like to see that thier judgement is found there in Matthew 25 but every nation of men will be gathered before his throne , and be judged by his words ....it's simply the truth . Our so called " works" should be our nature through the gospel ....

    “By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.”
    **1 John‬ *5:2-4‬ *KJV‬‬

    obeying the commandments shouldn't be a grievance to us , nor should loving others especially the least among us can't just talk the talk at some point

    “Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him? My little children,

    let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.”

    **1 John‬ *3:16-19‬ *KJV‬‬

    gotta as the church , abide in his doctrine, it will lead us to do the things were supposed to , just gotta accept it first even though it clearly requires of us as we grow.....


    “Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:”
    **2 John‬ *1:9-10‬ *KJV‬‬


    that will never change , nor will the coming wrath

    “In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;”
    **2 Thessalonians‬ *1:8-9‬ *KJV‬‬


    “Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.”
    **Matthew‬ *25:45-46‬ *KJV‬‬



    what people don't sometimes grasp is eternal life , life is eternal through Christ , as is the punishment everlasting. There's just the one way truth and life whether Jew or gentile .....there's no more distinction

  6. #6

    Re: Will you stand on the right ? Or on the left?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    I know you're a Dispensationalist, but what do you mean when you say Jesus was judged by his works? He was perfect, right--sinless. How can he be judged by his works?

    it says it right there in the scripture you quoted back to him. This sort of shows a bit better the context

    “If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies, Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.

    Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

    Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.”
    **Philippians‬ *2:1-12‬ *KJV‬‬

    the works there like in the op have nothing to do with commandments it's about being merciful to other people, giving help to them , showing true compassion on others in his name, taking the time to lend a helping hand cloth the needy feed them , behind in life to people , generous in our prosperity to the needs of others rather than the wants we harbor for our selves. Actually learning to love other people , even people not in our family or circles , but love them truly in deed in his name , because he loves them and has made sincerity and truth in love the way of salvation for us who are already all guilty of sins.....mercy triumphs

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    Re: Will you stand on the right ? Or on the left?

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower1977 View Post
    it says it right there in the scripture you quoted back to him. This sort of shows a bit better the context

    “If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies, Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.

    Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

    Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.”
    **Philippians‬ *2:1-12‬ *KJV‬‬

    the works there like in the op have nothing to do with commandments it's about being merciful to other people, giving help to them , showing true compassion on others in his name, taking the time to lend a helping hand cloth the needy feed them , behind in life to people , generous in our prosperity to the needs of others rather than the wants we harbor for our selves. Actually learning to love other people , even people not in our family or circles , but love them truly in deed in his name , because he loves them and has made sincerity and truth in love the way of salvation for us who are already all guilty of sins.....mercy triumphs
    That didn't answer my question at all! Walls indicated Jesus' works are what condemned him, or so it sounds?

    Walls said, "Notice that the judgment is for what our Lord Jesus DID - His WORKS."

    Nothing you said explains this?

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    Re: Will you stand on the right ? Or on the left?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    I know you're a Dispensationalist, but what do you mean when you say Jesus was judged by his works? He was perfect, right--sinless. How can he be judged by his works?
    Our Lord Jesus was a Man born under Law. Galatians 4:4; "But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law." And He, "... was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin" (Hebrews 4:15). As a Man under Law He must give account (Romans 2:12; 1st Peter 1:17, 2:23). And not only is He a Man under Law and must be judged according to the Law, but He was given a Stewardship - a Ministry. For this He must answer as well (Jn.17:4). Thus, our Lord Jesus is judged in all things pertaining to Law and being Teacher, Preacher, Prophet and Healer to Israel.

    Justice demands that all men pay for their own sins. The wages of sin (singular) is death, and the wages of sins (trespasses) is the Second Death (Matt.10:28). It would be UNJUST to make our Lord Jesus die for other men. He had to do it voluntarily. The Father hatched a plan of recovery for man but it needed Someone to pay for their sin and sins. Our Lord Jesus was under no obligation to leave His comfort zone and do what He did. But He knew it was the Father's will. So He did it. The Father looks upon any man's work with TWO criteria;
    1. Was it a good work
    2. Was it ordered by God

    After the man has done what he has done, God judges him. In the case of Jesus, as you have said, He was perfect in His Works and in perfect obedience. For this He is made the highest in the universe save the Father. Our Lord was perfect and did not fail once, but he still faced judgment - and one more strict than any other man, "... For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more" (Luke 12:48), "... for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him (Jesus)" - John 3:34.

  9. #9
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    Re: Will you stand on the right ? Or on the left?

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower1977 View Post
    What's your point?
    In your OP you laid out various Judgments. I put them in order of occurrence. I have no objection to your posting. Mine was an supplement.

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    Re: Will you stand on the right ? Or on the left?

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower1977 View Post
    there's only one judge, for Jew or gentile well all be judged the same day

    “And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.”
    **Acts‬ *17:30-31‬ *KJV‬‬
    You had better define the "DAY". If we are true to interpret prophecy without using private interpretation, then we must study to find which "DAY" is meant. This is imperative because, as my posting showed, the Church is judged first, followed by Israel, followed by the "living" of the Nations, followed by a thousand years, AFTER which the "rest of the DEAD" are judged at the White Throne. A diligent study of the whole Bible will show that there are FIVE "DAYS":
    1. The time of daylight
    2. The time from sunset to sunset
    3. And event - like "the Day of the Lord"
    4. A day in prophecy is a year
    5. A day is to God a thousand years

    Now, if, as Acts 17:30-31 says, He will judge the world, and it must all fit into a day, then number 5 is the correct "DAY". If you are not sure, then then try to define the "DAYS" of Hosea 6:1-2. Only one fits.

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower1977 View Post
    “And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.”
    **Acts‬ *10:42-44‬ *KJV‬‬
    If you study all the judgements in the Bible you will find that ALL judgments are when the man or woman is LIVING. The Church is judged after the resurrection and the rapture, Israel is judged after resurrection and gathering back to their Land, the Beast and False prophet are reurrected and living when they are judged, the Sheep and the Goats are SURVIVORS of the great Tribulation - that is, alive. And the "rest of the dead" are first RAISED and then judged at the White Throne. So, you'll have to apply this verse in a different way to get its meaning. The wording is correct, but the "quick and the dead" speak of something else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower1977 View Post
    I understand all the scholarly positions out there but there's just the one way for Jew or gentile there's no other salvation that will ever come from God to man , no other covenants , nothing but the gospel is available for salvation from the coming wrath upon mankind and even the earth itself. Jesus is Gods " ark" all we can do , being Christians whether Jewish or gentile , is jump on board with the gospel and grow in it.
    We discuss JUDGMENT not "salvation". Judgment is the act of a judge judging a man who is required to account for himself. This is what your OP was about. May I pass on the rest of your posting, as it alludes to what the result of the judgment is. Thanks for your understanding bro.

  11. #11
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    Re: Will you stand on the right ? Or on the left?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    Our Lord Jesus was a Man born under Law. Galatians 4:4; "But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law." And He, "... was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin" (Hebrews 4:15). As a Man under Law He must give account (Romans 2:12; 1st Peter 1:17, 2:23). And not only is He a Man under Law and must be judged according to the Law, but He was given a Stewardship - a Ministry. For this He must answer as well (Jn.17:4). Thus, our Lord Jesus is judged in all things pertaining to Law and being Teacher, Preacher, Prophet and Healer to Israel.

    Justice demands that all men pay for their own sins. The wages of sin (singular) is death, and the wages of sins (trespasses) is the Second Death (Matt.10:28). It would be UNJUST to make our Lord Jesus die for other men. He had to do it voluntarily. The Father hatched a plan of recovery for man but it needed Someone to pay for their sin and sins. Our Lord Jesus was under no obligation to leave His comfort zone and do what He did. But He knew it was the Father's will. So He did it. The Father looks upon any man's work with TWO criteria;
    1. Was it a good work
    2. Was it ordered by God

    After the man has done what he has done, God judges him. In the case of Jesus, as you have said, He was perfect in His Works and in perfect obedience. For this He is made the highest in the universe save the Father. Our Lord was perfect and did not fail once, but he still faced judgment - and one more strict than any other man, "... For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more" (Luke 12:48), "... for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him (Jesus)" - John 3:34.
    Yes, I sort of knew you were orthodox, with respect to Jesus' deity. He was perfect in every way, and his works were flawless. That's why I asked you how you could justify saying that Jesus was condemned for his works, which were blameless?

    You didn't answer the question. It seems you're hinting at the idea that somehow Jesus willfully paid for his own works, even though they were perfect, for no other reason than he was willing, as someone greater, to pay for works above all other men that he did not have to pay for?

    This sounds illogical to me, so I can't concur. But at least I know for sure that you're orthodox with respect to Jesus' deity.

    It seems that you have an agenda of pushing against human Works? I think you're one of those whose dichotomy looks like this: Faith vs. Works? I think perhaps this can be done if it is done properly. It is Faith + the Works of Faith vs. the autonomous Works of Man - Works of Faith.

    In other words, it is not Works themselves that are wrong, because even Faith requires Works. But if you define "Works" by the notion that they are strictly void of Faith, then you are neglecting the Works of Faith, such as the keeping of Christ's Commandments.

    And so, I don't think you should pursue an agenda that pits Faith vs. Works, unless you are clear that Faith has Works and that Works can be distinguished between Works of Faith and the Works of autonomous Man. Though this is somewhat difficult, I hope you can appreciate where I've been going with this?

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    Re: Will you stand on the right ? Or on the left?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Yes, I sort of knew you were orthodox, with respect to Jesus' deity. He was perfect in every way, and his works were flawless. That's why I asked you how you could justify saying that Jesus was condemned for his works, which were blameless?

    You didn't answer the question. It seems you're hinting at the idea that somehow Jesus willfully paid for his own works, even though they were perfect, for no other reason than he was willing, as someone greater, to pay for works above all other men that he did not have to pay for?

    This sounds illogical to me, so I can't concur. But at least I know for sure that you're orthodox with respect to Jesus' deity.

    It seems that you have an agenda of pushing against human Works? I think you're one of those whose dichotomy looks like this: Faith vs. Works? I think perhaps this can be done if it is done properly. It is Faith + the Works of Faith vs. the autonomous Works of Man - Works of Faith.

    In other words, it is not Works themselves that are wrong, because even Faith requires Works. But if you define "Works" by the notion that they are strictly void of Faith, then you are neglecting the Works of Faith, such as the keeping of Christ's Commandments.

    And so, I don't think you should pursue an agenda that pits Faith vs. Works, unless you are clear that Faith has Works and that Works can be distinguished between Works of Faith and the Works of autonomous Man. Though this is somewhat difficult, I hope you can appreciate where I've been going with this?
    The various responses at first puzzled me. The answer is simple. In English the noun "Judgment" has TWO meanings.
    noun: judgment
    1. the ability to make considered decisions or come to sensible conclusions.
    2. a misfortune or calamity viewed as a divine punishment.

    But the proffered verses were Romans 14:10 and 2nd Corinthians 5:10 etc. Here the word is "TRIBUNAL" - the act of a Judge judging the actions of the one called to give an account of him/herself. This was my meaning. It never occurred to me that you would not take this meaning, especially when viewing the context of the OP AND my context. But then again, is this not symptomatic of how many on this Forum take God's Words?

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    Re: Will you stand on the right ? Or on the left?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    The various responses at first puzzled me. The answer is simple. In English the noun "Judgment" has TWO meanings.
    noun: judgment
    1. the ability to make considered decisions or come to sensible conclusions.
    2. a misfortune or calamity viewed as a divine punishment.

    But the proffered verses were Romans 14:10 and 2nd Corinthians 5:10 etc. Here the word is "TRIBUNAL" - the act of a Judge judging the actions of the one called to give an account of him/herself. This was my meaning. It never occurred to me that you would not take this meaning, especially when viewing the context of the OP AND my context. But then again, is this not symptomatic of how many on this Forum take God's Words?
    I recognize how you were taking the sense of "judgment," and my question was, how can the Works of Christ be judged if his works were blameless? You seem to think that whether we are talking about Christ's perfect Works or the imperfect Works of sinful men, *all* Works are to be judged?

    Well, certainly Works are to be judged. But this doesn't mean that all Works are judged by death, as Christ was sentenced to death. That was a phony court--a complete mockery of justice. God put him to death for purposes of atonement, but not for purposes of judging his Works as worthy of death.

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    Re: Will you stand on the right ? Or on the left?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    I recognize how you were taking the sense of "judgment," and my question was, how can the Works of Christ be judged if his works were blameless? You seem to think that whether we are talking about Christ's perfect Works or the imperfect Works of sinful men, *all* Works are to be judged?

    Well, certainly Works are to be judged. But this doesn't mean that all Works are judged by death, as Christ was sentenced to death. That was a phony court--a complete mockery of justice. God put him to death for purposes of atonement, but not for purposes of judging his Works as worthy of death.
    I don't think you "recognize how I am taking the sense of judgment". Our Lord Jesus faced an ASSIZE. He ascended to heaven and the Father makes a decision as to His works. They are declared flawless and our Lord is then REWARDED, by the Judge, with the highest position in the universe, save His Father. Our misunderstanding is shown in 1 Corinthians 11:32: "But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world." The Greek for "judged is "krino" and it means "to DISTINGUISH", or a DECISION IS MADE. The result of the ASSIZE is "chastening". I meant the former and you ask questions about the latter.

    Because our Lord took our sins upon Himself Isaiah 53:5 says; "But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed." The bold is what happened to Him because of our sins. But when our Lord presents Himself before the Father with His completed work the Father' DECISION - His JUDGMENT is to accord Him the highest honor BECAUSE HE DID WHAT HE WAS SENT FOR PERFECTLY.

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    Re: Will you stand on the right ? Or on the left?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    I don't think you "recognize how I am taking the sense of judgment". Our Lord Jesus faced an ASSIZE. He ascended to heaven and the Father makes a decision as to His works. They are declared flawless and our Lord is then REWARDED, by the Judge, with the highest position in the universe, save His Father. Our misunderstanding is shown in 1 Corinthians 11:32: "But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world." The Greek for "judged is "krino" and it means "to DISTINGUISH", or a DECISION IS MADE. The result of the ASSIZE is "chastening". I meant the former and you ask questions about the latter.

    Because our Lord took our sins upon Himself Isaiah 53:5 says; "But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed." The bold is what happened to Him because of our sins. But when our Lord presents Himself before the Father with His completed work the Father' DECISION - His JUDGMENT is to accord Him the highest honor BECAUSE HE DID WHAT HE WAS SENT FOR PERFECTLY.
    You're right. I don't understand, as it applies to your overall comments.

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