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Thread: My coming is like Noah's day.

  1. #16

    Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    Agreed well said
    I didn't see this for a long time. I didn't see it because my sense of "power, strength, ruling over" etc was distorted.

    we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. Rom.8:37

    Herod....killed James the brother of John with the sword. Act.12:1-2

    Conquerors? Conquerors???

    he shall divide the spoil with the strong Isa.53:12

    The people who are strong....thousands of years in the future?

    And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Rev.12:11

    Overpowered Satan....and then died?

  2. #17
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    Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by journeyman View Post
    Shall reign because of what Jesus did, not shall reign in the distant future.
    Your ignoring the normal rules of grammar. If the church was currently reigning in 96AD, then John should have used the present tense "and they reign with Him". Instead he uses the future tense, "shall reign". The future tense verbs and even the future tense verb "basileuo" (reign) is use several times in the next chapter in the new heavens and new earth (Rev 22:5). Even a amillennialist would relegate those verse to a the "distant future". However, in chapter 20 you are arbitrarily and inconsistently using the same Greek word and tense to signify a PAST and PRESENT reality. This is a inconsistent hermeneutic.

    for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; Rev.5:9

    They're saying we shall reign because of and by the example Jesus showed and reigned in victory over all the powers of darkness.
    Again, if John wanted to commutate your belief, all he had to say way " and we reign on the earth". Instead he used the future tense for "reign". John is saying that the FUTURE reigning of the saints over the earth is due to the sacrifice of Christ and the redemption of His people. Changing the rules of grammar to fit a theological framework is sloppy exegesis...

    The 1st resurrection is being made alive in Christ.
    Rev 20:5* But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection (anastasis).

    The greek noun "resurrection" (anastasis) is used 100% of the time in the New Testament and the old testament (LXX) to denote a PHYSICAL RESURRECTION. Not one time is the noun "anastasis" used to denote a SPIRITUAL resurrection. Therefore, your interpretation is a ISOLOATED private interpretation from the rest of scripture.

    Also, can you produce ONE person in Christianity within the first 300 years of the church that taught or believed that the "first resurrection" was spiritual (beside the gnostics) or that it occurred at the first advent?

    Thanks

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    Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    Matthew 24-36-41
    36 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[f] but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

    Jesus was referring to that the days of Noah that no one expected it as the verse right before verse 37 states

    I believe Jesus is also referring to His coming in judgement upon Jerusalem in 70AD as the Jews didn’t expect to be concurred by the Romans because they thought that God would save them.

    The ones taken in verses 30-41 are taken in judgement just like the ones taken by the flood in Noah’s time in verse 39 were taken in judgement as in Noah’s day it was better to of been left behind than taken away
    Hey Marty, out of curiosity, which verse or verses in the Bible (if any) do you think directly speak about a future bodily 2nd Comkng of Christ? You can list few or all of them as a reference and do not have to paste the whole verse if you wish. Thanks man

  4. #19

    Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    [QUOTE=The Beginner;3507772]
    Your ignoring the normal rules of grammar. If the church was currently reigning in 96AD, then John should have used the present tense "and they reign with Him". Instead he uses the future tense, "shall reign".
    I'm looking at the tense in relation to who's speaking,

    the four beasts and four and twenty elders Rev.5:8

    I believe they represent the whole body of Christ 5:9, not only in the 1st century and shall reign by Jesus's victory 5:10

    And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle....
    and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come. Rev.4:7-8

    We do this now because of Jesus,

    God created man in his image....The ox knoweth his owner....the righteous are bold as a lion....they shall mount up with wings as eagles Gen.1:27, Isa.1:3, Pro.28:1, Isa.40:31

    This is our current state in Christ.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Beginner View Post
    The future tense verbs and even the future tense verb "basileuo" (reign) is use several times in the next chapter in the new heavens and new earth (Rev 22:5). Even a amillennialist would relegate those verse to a the "distant future".
    He's not speaking of a distant future, but the future of those in Christ,

    Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 2Cor.5:17

    We no longer look at things like we used to. We understand that God reigns over this universe by his word and always has and always will. "Run Jesus, because there's a conspiacy. The religious elite and Pilates are going to put you to death!!!"

    Looking back, conspiring to put the Word of God to death wasn't possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Beginner View Post
    However, in chapter 20 you are arbitrarily and inconsistently using the same Greek word and tense to signify a PAST and PRESENT reality. This is a inconsistent hermeneutic.
    He's looking at the end of the reign of believers in Christ. The followers of Christ, Jesus....who reigned in love and mercy and patience and then left an empty tomb. And the bottom line was,

    the evil one cannot touch him. 1Jn.5:18....They went up on the broad plain of the earth and encircled the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven and devoured them completely. Rev.20:9

    Bring some marshmellows. We're camping out.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Beginner View Post
    Rev 20:5* But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection (anastasis).

    The greek noun "resurrection" (anastasis) is used 100% of the time in the New Testament and the old testament (LXX) to denote a PHYSICAL RESURRECTION.
    That's incorrect my friend. Jesus said,

    I am the resurrection Jn.11:25

    Read his coversation with Martha. He tells her Lazarus isn't dead and she responds, I know he's going to live....in the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Beginner View Post
    Also, can you produce ONE person in Christianity within the first 300 years of the church that taught or believed that the "first resurrection" was spiritual (beside the gnostics) or that it occurred at the first advent?

    Thanks
    300 years? No my friend. I believe when God delivered Israel from bondage, it took much less time than that for them to go astray and I don't believe there's any reason why the same thing didn't happen again.

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    Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    [QUOTE=journeyman;3507796]
    Quote Originally Posted by The Beginner View Post
    I'm looking at the tense in relation to who's speaking,

    the four beasts and four and twenty elders Rev.5:8

    I believe they represent the whole body of Christ 5:9, not only in the 1st century and shall reign by Jesus's victory 5:10

    And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle....
    and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come. Rev.4:7-8

    We do this now because of Jesus,

    God created man in his image....The ox knoweth his owner....the righteous are bold as a lion....they shall mount up with wings as eagles Gen.1:27, Isa.1:3, Pro.28:1, Isa.40:31

    This is our current state in Christ.

    He's not speaking of a distant future, but the future of those in Christ,

    Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 2Cor.5:17

    We no longer look at things like we used to. We understand that God reigns over this universe by his word and always has and always will. "Run Jesus, because there's a conspiacy. The religious elite and Pilates are going to put you to death!!!"

    Looking back, conspiring to put the Word of God to death wasn't possible.

    He's looking at the end of the reign of believers in Christ. The followers of Christ, Jesus....who reigned in love and mercy and patience and then left an empty tomb. And the bottom line was,

    the evil one cannot touch him. 1Jn.5:18....They went up on the broad plain of the earth and encircled the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven and devoured them completely. Rev.20:9

    Bring some marshmellows. We're camping out.

    That's incorrect my friend. Jesus said,

    I am the resurrection Jn.11:25

    Read his coversation with Martha. He tells her Lazarus isn't dead and she responds, I know he's going to live....in the future.

    300 years? No my friend. I believe when God delivered Israel from bondage, it took much less time than that for them to go astray and I don't believe there's any reason why the same thing didn't happen again.
    I’ll get to your post when I get some time. Quick note, I did not say 300 years, I said “anyone WITHIN the first 300 years.” This includes anyone writing immediately during or after the lives of the apostles. I can show you clear proof that the men that the apostles discipled believed the First Resurrection to be future at the 2nd coming. Not One Person said it happened at the first coming until 350 years later with Augustine.
    Jude said it was their responsibility to “Hand down the faith that had been entrusted to them”. If the apostolic doctrine was actually Amill, then all the apostles failed in their stewardship. Men like Polycarp and Irenaeus, Barnabas all stared they held to the doctrines pass down directly from John, and they were all historic premillennialist.

  6. #21
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    Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    Quote Originally Posted by journeyman View Post
    I'm looking at the tense in relation to who's speaking,

    the four beasts and four and twenty elders Rev.5:8

    I believe they represent the whole body of Christ 5:9, not only in the 1st century and shall reign by Jesus's victory 5:10

    And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle....
    and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come. Rev.4:7-8
    Again, the four beasts and twenty four elders should have said "an they reign with Him" because according to your view, they had been already reigning. Instead the passage is securing the future reign of the saints. This is grammar 101


    We do this now because of Jesus,

    God created man in his image....The ox knoweth his owner....the righteous are bold as a lion....they shall mount up with wings as eagles Gen.1:27, Isa.1:3, Pro.28:1, Isa.40:31

    This is our current state in Christ.

    Paul clearly rebuked the church of Corinth for thinking they were currently "reigning" just as you belief.

    1Co 4:8* You are already full! You are already rich! You have reigned as kings without us—and indeed I could wish you did reign, that we also might reign with you!


    Paul, sarcastically rebukes the church who acted like they were already reigning and had received the comforts living as kings and priests describes in the writings of the prophets. Paul says, "I wish this was really true, because that would mean we would be reigning with you as fellow believers" (Paraphrase). Paul then goes on to describe the apostles current condition of being "put on display, condemned to death...weak, dishonored, hungry, thirsty, poorly clothed, beaten and homeless, etc".

    1Co 4:9-13* For I think that God has displayed us, the apostles, last, as men condemned to death; for we have been made a spectacle to the world, both to angels and to men. *(10)* We are fools for Christ's sake, but you are wise in Christ! We are weak, but you are strong! You are distinguished, but we are dishonored! *(11)* To the present hour we both hunger and thirst, and we are poorly clothed, and beaten, and homeless. *(12)* And we labor, working with our own hands. Being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we endure; *(13)* being defamed, we entreat. We have been made as the filth of the world, the offscouring of all things until now.

    This is why Romans 8 says that this current age is a "time of suffering" but that "glory SHALL BE revealed in us" when the sons of God are glorified and Christ lifts the curse upon the physical creation at the 2nd coming. This is not the season in which the church reigns.

    How do you answer the fact that Jesus said to the disciples, "IN THE REGENERATION, you who have followed me will sit on twelve thrones and judge the twelve tribes of Israel". When did the disciples receive this reward of reigning over Israel?

    He's not speaking of a distant future, but the future of those in Christ,

    Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 2Cor.5:17
    Are you saying that the New Heavens and New Earth are now??? Are you a full preterist?

    I was speaking about Rev 21 and the NHNE.

    We no longer look at things like we used to. We understand that God reigns over this universe by his word and always has and always will. "Run Jesus, because there's a conspiacy. The religious elite and Pilates are going to put you to death!!!"

    Looking back, conspiring to put the Word of God to death wasn't possible.

    He's looking at the end of the reign of believers in Christ. The followers of Christ, Jesus....who reigned in love and mercy and patience and then left an empty tomb. And the bottom line was,

    the evil one cannot touch him. 1Jn.5:18....They went up on the broad plain of the earth and encircled the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven and devoured them completely. Rev.20:9

    Bring some marshmellows. We're camping out.
    I do not know what your talking about here. Can you restate...

    That's incorrect my friend. Jesus said,

    I am the resurrection Jn.11:25

    Read his conversation with Martha. He tells her Lazarus isn't dead and she responds, I know he's going to live....in the future.
    John 11:24 is in CONTEXT to a PHYSICAL RESSURECTION. Jesus is personifying the means by which Lazerus is about to be PHYSICALLY raise through Christ and is also personifying the means by which all men will be PHYSICALLY raised "on the last day". There is no spiritual invisible resurrection happening here...

    Even the great AMILLENNIAL scholar G.K Beale admits that John 11:24-25 is about a physical resurrection saying "Anastasis appears forty one times in the NT and refers to physical resurrection... when read in context, even John 11 (v.25) refers to a physical resurrection." (Beal, G.K The Book of Revelation. 1004)

    300 years? No my friend. I believe when God delivered Israel from bondage, it took much less time than that for them to go astray and I don't believe there's any reason why the same thing didn't happen again.
    Comparing the apostolic martyrs who were "entrusted with the faith once and for all delivered to the saints" and whom many were the chief apologist for the church against the gnostic belief systems to a faithless and apostate group who wondered for 40 years and died in the wilderness because of unbelief is a horrible view of the early church to hold to. And that you have discovered the real truth (i.e. first resurrection as past) that ALL the Apostles failed to transmit down to their disciples is a bold assertion.

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    Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    Quote Originally Posted by journeyman View Post
    I didn't see this for a long time. I didn't see it because my sense of "power, strength, ruling over" etc was distorted.

    we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. Rom.8:37

    Herod....killed James the brother of John with the sword. Act.12:1-2

    Conquerors? Conquerors???

    he shall divide the spoil with the strong Isa.53:12

    The people who are strong....thousands of years in the future?

    And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Rev.12:11

    Overpowered Satan....and then died?
    Yes we reign now and even though we die we still live and reign

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    Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Beginner View Post
    Hey Marty, out of curiosity, which verse or verses in the Bible (if any) do you think directly speak about a future bodily 2nd Comkng of Christ? You can list few or all of them as a reference and do not have to paste the whole verse if you wish. Thanks man
    Sure at the rapture just to name a few

    Matthew 25:31-34

    1 Corinthians 15:50-56

    1 Thess 4:13-18

    Rev 20::9 as the same time as 2-Peter 3:10

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    Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    Sure at the rapture just to name a few

    Matthew 25:31-34

    1 Corinthians 15:50-56

    1 Thess 4:13-18

    Rev 20::9 as the same time as 2-Peter 3:10
    Cool, thanks for clarifying your position

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    Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Beginner View Post
    Cool, thanks for clarifying your position
    Your welcome I'm not a full preterist just an partial one LOL

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    Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    Sure at the rapture just to name a few

    Matthew 25:31-34

    1 Corinthians 15:50-56

    1 Thess 4:13-18

    Rev 20::9 as the same time as 2-Peter 3:10
    There are 4 clear prophesies that tell us about Jesus' Return; Zechariah 14:3, Matthew 24:30, Acts 1:11, and Revelation 19:11.

    Matthew 25:31-34 is about the Judgment of the nations after the Return.

    1 Corinthians 15:50-56, is all about what will happen at the Great White Throne Judgment; after the Millennium. Proved by how it is only then that Death is no more.

    1 Thess 4:13-18 is about what happens to the Christians then. The dead in Christ will rise and those who are still alive will join them in the clouds. Note well 2 things: The only dead that will be brought back to life then, are the GT martyrs. Revelation 20:4. This 'rising' isn't to heaven, as Jesus has come from there, on His way to the earth for His Millennium reign.

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    Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    There are 4 clear prophesies that tell us about Jesus' Return; Zechariah 14:3, Matthew 24:30, Acts 1:11, and Revelation 19:11.

    Matthew 25:31-34 is about the Judgment of the nations after the Return.

    1 Corinthians 15:50-56, is all about what will happen at the Great White Throne Judgment; after the Millennium. Proved by how it is only then that Death is no more.

    1 Thess 4:13-18 is about what happens to the Christians then. The dead in Christ will rise and those who are still alive will join them in the clouds. Note well 2 things: The only dead that will be brought back to life then, are the GT martyrs. Revelation 20:4. This 'rising' isn't to heaven, as Jesus has come from there, on His way to the earth for His Millennium reign.
    Sure but that is a difference of opinion

    I agree with Acts 1

    Since Zachariah 14 Jesus did stand on the mount of olives when He commanded the deciples to take the gospel to the world with the Holy Spirit (the living water) within them and it shook the world

    I see Matthew 24:30 as Jesus gathering the elect the ones he choose to protect which survived 70AD

    I also see Revelation 19 as Jesus repeatedly defeating his enemies with the sword of his mouth his word

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    Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    Yes we reign now and even though we die we still live and reign
    The reign over the nations is not now according to Christ.

    Rev 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

    That is the second coming.

    Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

    After "the end" comes, there is given power over the nations to those that are overcomers which naturally includes those who "are alive and remain" at the second coming. They will be given power over the nations.

    Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

    After the second coming and after "the end" will the overcomers be given power over the nations, ruling them with a rod of iron. That proves the rod of iron rule over the nations for a thousand years does not even start until Christ has returned and has given overcomers this power to rule over the nations.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    The reign over the nations is not now according to Christ.

    Rev 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

    That is the second coming.

    Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

    After "the end" comes, there is given power over the nations to those that are overcomers which naturally includes those who "are alive and remain" at the second coming. They will be given power over the nations.

    Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

    After the second coming and after "the end" will the overcomers be given power over the nations, ruling them with a rod of iron. That proves the rod of iron rule over the nations for a thousand years does not even start until Christ has returned and has given overcomers this power to rule over the nations.
    This isn’t talking about the current reigning but the judging of the nations at the end of our world

    Jesus is currently reigning as king and we reign with him because we are in his kingdom

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    The reign over the nations is not now according to Christ.

    Rev 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

    That is the second coming.

    Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

    After "the end" comes, there is given power over the nations to those that are overcomers which naturally includes those who "are alive and remain" at the second coming. They will be given power over the nations.

    Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

    After the second coming and after "the end" will the overcomers be given power over the nations, ruling them with a rod of iron. That proves the rod of iron rule over the nations for a thousand years does not even start until Christ has returned and has given overcomers this power to rule over the nations.
    This isn’t talking about the current reigning but the judging of the nations at the end of our world

    Jesus is currently reigning as king and we reign with him because we are in his kingdom

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    Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    This isn’t talking about the current reigning but the judging of the nations at the end of our world

    Doesn't say that at all. It speaks of the reign over the nations starting after Christ returns which proves that the reign isn't happening now. That's already obvious just looking at the state of the world anyways, but scripture showing the reign isn't happening matches the reignless world we live in.

    Jesus is currently reigning as king and we reign with him because we are in his kingdom
    You guys are doing a terrible job The real reign will take place when Christ returns and it will look nothing like this awful world.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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