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Thread: My coming is like Noah's day.

  1. #46

    Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Beginner View Post
    Again, the four beasts and twenty four elders should have said "an they reign with Him" because according to your view, they had been already reigning. Instead the passage is securing the future reign of the saints. This is grammar 101
    John makes a similar statement in Rev.1:6. It's ludicrous that he's currently a priest of nothing. Even worse is the belief that Jesus was born King of nothing. I'm not an ambassador for the King of nothing. Unbelievers might think so, but then they don't know there was never a time when Jesus wasnt reigning.

    Paul clearly rebuked the church of Corinth for thinking they were currently "reigning" just as you belief.
    Not like I believe. They were loading it over the congregation, but Jesus said,

    he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. Mt.23:11

    I already showed you, Jesus will divide the spoil with the mighty. They were mighty before they received glorified bodies.

    And as far as any congregation (like the Corinthians), Jesus will decide who was saved and who wasn't.

    [B]1Co 4:9-13* For I think that God has displayed us, the apostles, last, as men condemned to death; for we have been made a spectacle to the world
    This is an indictment against the world and last are really first.

    This is why Romans 8 says that this current age is a "time of suffering" but that "glory SHALL BE revealed in us" when the sons of God are glorified and Christ lifts the curse upon the physical creation at the 2nd coming. This is not the season in which the church reigns.
    Jesus reigned through suffering. He defeated all the powers of darkness this way. Here's the glory,

    For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God. 1Pet.2:20

    And this glory will be revealed to unbelievers. Believers already see it because of Jesus.

    How do you answer the fact that Jesus said to the disciples, "IN THE REGENERATION, you who have followed me will sit on twelve thrones and judge the twelve tribes of Israel". When did the disciples receive this reward of reigning over Israel?
    It's very simple. This reward is given in the regeneration, which the unregenerated aren't part of. They're not part of it, because all corruptable flesh is destroyed.

    Are you saying that the New Heavens and New Earth are now??? Are you a full preterist?
    They're being formed now. I've never studied preterist.

    I was speaking about Rev 21 and the NHNE.
    I was speaking of how only the born again see and enter the Kingdom of God, which Jesus said was in our midst.

    I do not know what your talking about here. Can you restate...
    He's showing how after the reign of Christ ends, the evil spirit along with his army never touched those in Christ.

    Even the great AMILLENNIAL scholar G.K Beale admits that John 11:24-25 is about a physical resurrection
    Jesus's statement in vs.25 doesn't end there.

    Comparing the apostolic martyrs who were "entrusted with the faith once and for all delivered to the saints" and whom many were the chief apologist for the church against the gnostic belief systems to a faithless and apostate group who wondered for 40 years and died in the wilderness because of unbelief is a horrible view of the early church to hold to. And that you have discovered the real truth (i.e. first resurrection as past) that ALL the Apostles failed to transmit down to their disciples is a bold assertion.
    The NT shows that false teachers were entering the church while the Apostles were still living.

  2. #47
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    Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    Quote Originally Posted by journeyman View Post
    John makes a similar statement in Rev.1:6. It's ludicrous that he's currently a priest of nothing.
    You need to study into the tense of the Greek verb in that verse. Also, being a priest and king does not equal ruling over the nations with a rod of iron. That particular reign does not begin until the return of Christ as per the ending verses of Rev 2.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  3. #48

    Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    You need to study into the tense of the Greek verb in that verse. Also, being a priest and king does not equal ruling over the nations with a rod of iron. That particular reign does not begin until the return of Christ as per the ending verses of Rev 2.
    You got it backwards. That's when the Kings administration in mercy over the ungodly comes to an end.

    For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. Lk.9:56

    And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. Jn.12:47

    So said the Judge of heaven and earth.

  4. #49
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    Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    Quote Originally Posted by journeyman View Post
    You got it backwards. That's when the Kings administration in mercy over the ungodly comes to an end.

    For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. Lk.9:56

    And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. Jn.12:47

    So said the Judge of heaven and earth.
    EWQ is correct. Your not honoring the Greek verb tenses. Notice he has made us TO BE a kingdom of priests... and they SHALL reign on the earth.


    Rev 5:10 "You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they shall reign upon the earth."

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    Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    You need to study into the tense of the Greek verb in that verse. Also, being a priest and king does not equal ruling over the nations with a rod of iron. That particular reign does not begin until the return of Christ as per the ending verses of Rev 2.
    True.

  6. #51
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    Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    The saints will reign when the Messiah returns, they are not reigning presently.

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    Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    The saints will reign when the Messiah returns, they are not reigning presently.
    How does that compare with what happened in Noahs day? Who did Noah reign over after the flood?

    Your future reign only lasts 1000 years after Jesus comes , and it all comes to nothing as God destroys those who we supposedly reign over by fire after the 1000 years.....So what was the point of that?.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    The saints will reign when the Messiah returns, they are not reigning presently.
    How does that compare with what happened in Noahs day? Who did Noah reign over after the flood?

    Your future reign only lasts 1000 years after Jesus comes , and it all comes to nothing as God destroys those who we supposedly reign over by fire after the 1000 years.....So what was the point of that?.
    And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

  8. #53
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    Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    Quote Originally Posted by journeyman View Post
    You got it backwards. That's when the Kings administration in mercy over the ungodly comes to an end.
    Rev 2 does not agree with you. The reign over the nations is said to start after Christ returns. Scripture should be above any teaching of a doctrine.

    Rev 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

    Second coming.

    Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
    Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

    Power to rule over the nations given after the second coming. Any doctrine teaching differently is teaching in error.

    "rule" in the Greek is also important:

    G4165
    ποιμαίνω
    poimainō
    poy-mah'ee-no
    From G4166; to tend as a shepherd (or figuratively superviser): - feed (cattle), rule.

    The nations will be tended like sheep tended (protected) by a shepherd.

    G4165
    ποιμαίνω
    poimainō
    Thayer Definition:
    1) to feed, to tend a flock, keep sheep
    1a) to rule, govern
    1a1) of rulers
    1a2) to furnish pasture for food
    1a3) to nourish
    1a4) to cherish one’s body, to serve the body
    1a5) to supply the requisites for the soul’s need
    Part of Speech: verb
    A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G4166
    Citing in TDNT: 6:485, 901
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  9. #54
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    Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffweeder View Post
    How does that compare with what happened in Noahs day? Who did Noah reign over after the flood?

    Your future reign only lasts 1000 years after Jesus comes , and it all comes to nothing as God destroys those who we supposedly reign over by fire after the 1000 years.....So what was the point of that?.
    The same things are in all of our bibles and yes people are killed by fire. You should answer the question since it's the same thing in your doctrine, "So what was the point of that?.". ie: Why reign over people destined to die in fire anyways?

    This isn't specifically a Premill or Amil issue.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Cool Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffweeder View Post
    How does that compare with what happened in Noahs day? Who did Noah reign over after the flood?

    Your future reign only lasts 1000 years after Jesus comes , and it all comes to nothing as God destroys those who we supposedly reign over by fire after the 1000 years.....So what was the point of that?.
    Where does it say all this happens? Jesus will deliver the kingdom to the Father at the end of the reign. No destruction in fire.
    John 15:17 "These things I command you, that ye love one another."

  11. #56
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    Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    The same things are in all of our bibles and yes people are killed by fire. You should answer the question since it's the same thing in your doctrine, "So what was the point of that?.". ie: Why reign over people destined to die in fire anyways?

    This isn't specifically a Premill or Amil issue.
    Amill believes we reign in Jesus now , in order to save some of them today. That is the point of that.


    Jesus coming is more like the days of Noah if he comes after the millennium, as that day is judgment of fire.

    2pet 3

    3 Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts, 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation.” 5 For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water, 6 through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water. 7 But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.




    2Thess 1

    6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, 8 dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed—for our testimony to you was believed.



    act 17

    30 Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent, 31 because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead.”

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    Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffweeder View Post
    Amill believes we reign in Jesus now , in order to save some of them today. That is the point of that.
    So reigning during the thousand years is designed to save some people. Guess what? It's exactly the same thing in Premill!


    Jesus coming is more like the days of Noah if he comes after the millennium, as that day is judgment of fire.
    The bible says he comes before the millennium not after it. There is no millennium period in the story of Noah. What happened that day and when Christ returns is one being taken and one being rejected. The millennium and reigning over unbelieving nations would come place afterward which isn't something found in Noah's story.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  13. #58

    Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Beginner View Post
    EWQ is correct. Your not honoring the Greek verb tenses.
    The only dishonor going on is toward the Lord of all creation, who showed how strong he really is as a man, not only to men who hated him, but to spirits who did also. Any theologian who says Jesus was not reigning over all in this manner is dead wrong. And any teacher of the word of God who says Christ does not now reign by his Spirit in believers over the ungodly is dead wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Beginner View Post
    Rev 5:10 "You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they shall reign upon the earth."
    (now because of this)

  14. #59
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    Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    So reigning during the thousand years is designed to save some people. Guess what? It's exactly the same thing in Premill!
    We are not told anything about the fruits of the premill reign. What we are told is that numbers like the sand on the sea shore will perish in fire at the end of the 1000 years.

    For those who are Amill, the Lord prophecies unto us that people from all nations and tongues will be saved out of the GT that you will not be able to count.

    The exact opposite happens in your premill age after his coming, as numbers of people you cannot count will be destroyed by fire.

    You would think we could improve our numbers after the GT and into your supposed millennium with us being visibly glorified along with the returned Christ.
    The whole premill proposal is a complete nonsense.

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    Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffweeder View Post
    How does that compare with what happened in Noahs day? Who did Noah reign over after the flood?

    Your future reign only lasts 1000 years after Jesus comes , and it all comes to nothing as God destroys those who we supposedly reign over by fire after the 1000 years.....So what was the point of that?.



    How does that compare with what happened in Noahs day? Who did Noah reign over after the flood?

    Your future reign only lasts 1000 years after Jesus comes , and it all comes to nothing as God destroys those who we supposedly reign over by fire after the 1000 years.....So what was the point of that?.
    Exactly it would seam like a failed reign would the purpose be that everyone gets saved

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffweeder View Post
    How does that compare with what happened in Noahs day? Who did Noah reign over after the flood?

    Your future reign only lasts 1000 years after Jesus comes , and it all comes to nothing as God destroys those who we supposedly reign over by fire after the 1000 years.....So what was the point of that?.



    How does that compare with what happened in Noahs day? Who did Noah reign over after the flood?

    Your future reign only lasts 1000 years after Jesus comes , and it all comes to nothing as God destroys those who we supposedly reign over by fire after the 1000 years.....So what was the point of that?.
    Exactly it would seam like a failed reign would the purpose be that everyone gets saved

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