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Thread: My coming is like Noah's day.

  1. #61
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    Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffweeder View Post
    Amill believes we reign in Jesus now , in order to save some of them today. That is the point of that.


    Jesus coming is more like the days of Noah if he comes after the millennium, as that day is judgment of fire.

    2pet 3

    3 Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts, 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation.” 5 For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water, 6 through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water. 7 But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.




    2Thess 1

    6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, 8 dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed—for our testimony to you was believed.



    act 17

    30 Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent, 31 because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead.”
    Yes that is the point to save now

    The bible is full of messages and the main message is that today is the day of salvation

  2. #62
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    Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffweeder View Post
    We are not told anything about the fruits of the premill reign. What we are told is that numbers like the sand on the sea shore will perish in fire at the end of the 1000 years.
    As if that isn't doesn't happen in Amil.


    For those who are Amill, the Lord prophecies unto us that people from all nations and tongues will be saved out of the GT that you will not be able to count.
    If that is true in Amil, it is in Premil.


    The exact opposite happens in your premill age after his coming, as numbers of people you cannot count will be destroyed by fire.
    lol....why don't you understand that all these things happen in both doctrines? The bible tells us these things yet somehow it's only negatively applied to Premil?

    You would think we could improve our numbers after the GT and into your supposed millennium with us being visibly glorified along with the returned Christ.
    The whole premill proposal is a complete nonsense.
    The bible itself is Premil.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  3. #63

    Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Rev 2 does not agree with you. The reign over the nations is said to start after Christ returns. Scripture should be above any teaching of a doctrine.

    Rev 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.
    What we have now is the power to rule sinners in mercy, as Jesus did with us before we came to know him. It's a shame for anyone not to see this.

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Second coming.

    Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
    Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

    Power to rule over the nations given after the second coming. Any doctrine teaching differently is teaching in error.
    The error is thinking Jesus's people are weaklings and have no authority, because they don't bash the heads of people who commit sin.
    Jesus made it clear in his teaching and more importantly by his example, that we are not to rule by condrmnation during his current administration.

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    "rule" in the Greek is also important:

    G4165
    ποιμαίνω
    poimainō
    poy-mah'ee-no
    From G4166; to tend as a shepherd (or figuratively superviser): - feed (cattle), rule.

    The nations will be tended like sheep tended (protected) by a shepherd.

    G4165
    ποιμαίνω
    poimainō
    Thayer Definition:
    1) to feed, to tend a flock, keep sheep
    1a) to rule, govern
    1a1) of rulers
    1a2) to furnish pasture for food
    1a3) to nourish
    1a4) to cherish one’s body, to serve the body
    1a5) to supply the requisites for the soul’s need
    Part of Speech: verb
    A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G4166
    Citing in TDNT: 6:485, 901
    Guess what? Those "nations" being cherished and nourished....are us right now. The Messiah came, the Jews preached and the nations have everything their souls need, right now.

  4. #64

    Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    Ps. Shattering the pots comes when the garbage is thrown out.

  5. #65
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    Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    Quote Originally Posted by journeyman View Post
    What we have now is the power to rule sinners in mercy, as Jesus did with us before we came to know him. It's a shame for anyone not to see this.
    What you describe isn't even real, nor scriptural. The rule of the rod of iron will be a real reign over people in a very literal sense. That isn't happening now and won't until Christ returns.


    Guess what? Those "nations" being cherished and nourished....are us right now.
    No, it's not now nor "us". It's a future reign according to scripture. The nations are not reigned by Christ nor his saints currently.

    Quote Originally Posted by journeyman View Post
    What we have now is the power to rule sinners in mercy, as Jesus did with us before we came to know him. It's a shame for anyone not to see this.
    What you describe isn't even real, nor scriptural. The rule of the rod of iron will be a real reign over people in a very literal sense. That isn't happening now and won't until Christ returns.


    Guess what? Those "nations" being cherished and nourished....are us right now.
    No, it's not now nor "us". It's a future reign according to scripture. The nations are not reigned by Christ nor his saints currently.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  6. #66
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    Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    Quote Originally Posted by journeyman View Post
    Ps. Shattering the pots comes when the garbage is thrown out.
    Not according to scripture. The pots are broken, then the pieces are reigned over because they are now powerless since their power and organizations have been broken up.

    Rev_2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.


    Barnes:


    As the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers - The ironic here is that of the vessel of a potter - a fragile vessel of clay - struck with a rod of iron and broken into fragments. That is, as applied to the nations, there would be no power to oppose His rule; the enemies of his government would be destroyed. Instead of remaining firm and compacted together, they would be broken like the clay vessel of a potter when struck with a rod of iron.
    The notion of breaking a nation or kingdom up so it is powerless is nothing new in scripture:

    Dan 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
    Dan 2:45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.


    The kingdom of God which Christ rules will break up the existing kingdoms of the nations leaving the people powerless to rebel. This is when the reign of the rod of iron over these nations takes place for a thousand years.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  7. #67
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    Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    There is another use of a vessel being destroyed and it is not about killing people but breaking up an organization of people who rebel against God:

    Isa 30:12 Wherefore thus saith the Holy One of Israel, Because ye despise this word, and trust in oppression and perverseness, and stay thereon:
    Isa 30:13 Therefore this iniquity shall be to you as a breach ready to fall, swelling out in a high wall, whose breaking cometh suddenly at an instant.
    Isa 30:14 And he shall break it as the breaking of the potters' vessel that is broken in pieces; he shall not spare: so that there shall not be found in the bursting of it a sherd to take fire from the hearth, or to take water withal out of the pit.

    The metaphor of a vessel being broken is never about individuals being killed. God didn't kill every Jew. But their rebellion and sin against him caused the demise of their chosen status, even the covenant between them and God. Fast forward to the Millennium and again those who rebel against Christ shall have their wicked organizations broken up, leaving them powerless and unable to organize against Christ during this period of TIME of the reign/rule with a rod of iron. They live to be reigned over. When God allows satan to deceive them, then a brief and failed rebellion occurs and they are killed and judged and are no more forever.

    Barnes:

    As the breaking of the potter’s vessel - That is, as an earthen, fragile vessel, which is easily dashed to pieces. The image here is all drawn from the bursting forth, or the complete ruin of the swelling wall; but the sense is, that the Jewish republic would be entirely broken, scattered, demolished.



    Psa 2:9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

    Barnes:

    Psalms 2:9

    Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron - That is, evidently, thine enemies, for it cannot be supposed to be meant that he would sway such a scepter over his own people. The idea is that he would crush and subdue all his foes. He would have absolute power, and the grant which had been made to him would be accompanied with authority sufficient to hold it. That dominion which was to be conceded to him would be not only one of protection to his friends, but also of punishment on his enemies; and the statement here is made prominent because the former part of the psalm had respect to rebels, and the Messiah is here represented as being invested with power sufficient to punish and restrain them. The Vulgate renders this “thou shalt rule;” the Septuagint, “thou shalt feed - p??µa?e??? poimaneis; that is, thou shalt feed them as a shepherd does his flock; thou shalt exercise over them the care and protection of a shepherd.

    So, all the evidence shows that it is very likely these people are cared for in a physical sense as well as a spiritual sense which would be receiving the gospel and all that it entails.

    Kings and Priests help Christ rule over unsaved mortals. And the word rule means to Shepherd which means to take care for. Same job a King has, and the job of a Priest is to minister in a religious way. All this during a time Satan cannot deceive anyone for the first time in human history. When you add all of this up, you have perfect situation for the possibility of repentance.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  8. #68

    Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    What you describe isn't even real, nor scriptural.
    Jesus's defeat of all who opposed him which was proved by his resurrection is scriptural.

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    The rule of the rod of iron will be a real reign over people in a very literal sense. That isn't happening now and won't until Christ returns.
    When Jesus returns, he shows to all what was always true.

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    No, it's not now nor "us". It's a future reign according to scripture. The nations are not reigned by Christ nor his saints currently.
    Your position is no different from saying, "Mankind doesn't listen to God. Therefore, God doesn't reign over mankind."

  9. #69

    Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Not according to scripture. The pots are broken, then the pieces are reigned over because they are now powerless since their power and organizations have been broken up.

    Rev_2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

    Barnes:

    The notion of breaking a nation or kingdom up so it is powerless is nothing new in scripture:

    Dan 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
    Dan 2:45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

    The kingdom of God which Christ rules will break up the existing kingdoms of the nations leaving the people powerless to rebel. This is when the reign of the rod of iron over these nations takes place for a thousand years.
    The nations were proven powerless when Jesus rose from death,

    Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things? The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ. For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together Act.4:25-27

    It's a vain imagination to think Christ can be opposed by anyone, no matter how big there organization is.

  10. #70

    Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    So, all the evidence shows that it is very likely these people are cared for in a physical sense as well as a spiritual sense which would be receiving the gospel and all that it entails.
    Which is what we have now in Christ.

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Kings and Priests help Christ rule over unsaved mortals. And the word rule means to Shepherd which means to take care for. Same job a King has, and the job of a Priest is to minister in a religious way.
    Which is what we do now.

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    All this during a time Satan cannot deceive anyone for the first time in human history.
    Satan is bound by the truth of Christ, so that the nations wouldn't be deceived. There is no promise that people who reject the truth won't continue being deceived.

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    When you add all of this up, you have perfect situation for the possibility of repentance.
    Which is what we have now.

    I can see being fractured before before ultimate destruction, because my own world, my old life, was smashed in pieces by the gospel, but the revelation of Jesus Christ is the unveiling of what was always true and no evil is going beyond that.

  11. #71
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    Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    Quote Originally Posted by journeyman View Post
    Which is what we have now in Christ.

    Which is what we do now.

    Satan is bound by the truth of Christ, so that the nations wouldn't be deceived. There is no promise that people who reject the truth won't continue being deceived.

    Which is what we have now.

    I can see being fractured before before ultimate destruction, because my own world, my old life, was smashed in pieces by the gospel, but the revelation of Jesus Christ is the unveiling of what was always true and no evil is going beyond that.
    Well said journeyman

  12. #72
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    Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    Ewq1938 said All this during a time Satan cannot deceive anyone for the first time in human history.

    Your putting the onus on the wrong person as this verse is about what Satan can’t do anymore And it’s because of the gospel. On the other hand any person at anytime can allow themselves to be deceived by Satan

  13. #73
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    Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    Ewq1938 said All this during a time Satan cannot deceive anyone for the first time in human history.

    Your putting the onus on the wrong person as this verse is about what Satan can’t do anymore And it’s because of the gospel. On the other hand any person at anytime can allow themselves to be deceived by Satan
    In Rev 20 the ONUS is most certainly on Satan, and on him being bound AND put in the pit. It also states Satan can no longer deceive the nations from WHEN he is bound and placed in the pit.
    So IF Satan presently is able to deceive nations - and ALL the evidence points to this as a FACT - then it means that Satan is NOT presently bound and placed in the pit.
    This is a self-evident TRUTH and fairly simple to understand.
    Why people DENY that we are in a real battle with the forces of this dark world right now and living delusional lives and delude others.
    Any claim that Satan is bound for ALL nations and in the pit right now are contrary to ALL that Paul wrote and what Revelation simple states. It is contrary to what Jesus declared, about the need to bind the strong man. Why would that be necessary IF the strong man is ALREADY bound?

    What is worse is that when you highlight this discrepancy between scriptural TRUTH and the dogma of Amillennialism/Postmillennialism, the response is that we are somehow denigrating Jesus or making Satan more than he is. This is a falsehood, and would recommend reading "The Screwtape Letters" by CS Lewis to get a perspective on this. With Christ we have the victory, but the battle is tough and we actually deny God glory when He is involved in our trials. Jesus highlighted that we would have trials UNTIL He returns, and Paul noted these trials are led by the prince of the air.

    In conclusion, let us put the ONUS of a scripture WHERE that scripture puts the onus. A temporary victory over Satan for a duration of a thousand years, which changes the whole world, and this victory was achieved in the previous chapter, by a returning King of Kings!

  14. #74

    Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    Ewq1938 said All this during a time Satan cannot deceive anyone for the first time in human history.

    Your putting the onus on the wrong person as this verse is about what Satan can’t do anymore And it’s because of the gospel. On the other hand any person at anytime can allow themselves to be deceived by Satan
    Exactly right marty. The idea that no souls can be taken from Satan until a future 1000 years time period isn't true. I know this, because I was in the devils house until Jesus got me out of there. Seems like Jesus freed you also.

  15. #75
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    Re: My coming is like Noah's day.

    Quote Originally Posted by journeyman View Post
    Exactly right marty. The idea that no souls can be taken from Satan until a future 1000 years time period isn't true. I know this, because I was in the devils house until Jesus got me out of there. Seems like Jesus freed you also.
    What a terrible strawman. No one is suggesting that souls can't be taken off Satan until a future 1,000 years. It is misrepresentation of this order which makes debate difficult.
    You actual agree with the point that you needed to be take from the devil's house which demonstrates the devil IS presently NOT bound and in the pit, but a roaring lion seeking to devour whomever he may and so needs defeating individual by individual. This is so different from the Millennium when Satan will not need defeating in this way because he will be bound and in the pit.
    The very fact you acknowledge you were deceived by the devil means that the devil is still in the business of deceiving, which is something he will NOT be doing DURING the Millennium.

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