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Thread: How do you suppose Christ will return?

  1. #16
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    Re: How do you suppose Christ will return?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    The word "spiritual" in the Bible is an adjective and means one of two things:
    1. It is spirit in SUBSTANCE. God is a Spirit, that is He is off Spirit-Substance. A man is a SOUL and his body is dust-substance. To contact God and give Him an adequate dwelling, a man has a spirit. It is here, in the human spirit, that God, a Spirit, dwells and communicates with that man (Jn.4:24)
    2. It has its ORIGIN in the Holy Spirit. In Romans 1:11 Paul says; "For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established". That is, the gift is NOT a spirit, but it has its ORIGIN in the Holy Spirit.

    In regard to resurrection, point #2 is applicable. The resurrected body of a man is still flesh and bones in SUBSTANCE, but it has its ORIGIN, not in the womb but the Holy Spirit. Romans 8:11 and 2nd Corinthians 5:1 severally tell of the ORIGIN of the resurrected body:
    11 "But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you."
    1 "For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens."

    2nd Corinthians 5:5 and Ephesians 1:13-14 go on to show that the rebirth of a man, which infuses the Spirit of God into the spirit of the man (Jn.3:6), is the guarantee of a future resurrection by this same Spirit.
    • 5 "Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit."
    • 13 "In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
    14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory."

    If there remains any doubt then compare 1st John 3:2 and Luke 24:39;
    2 "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is."
    39 "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."

    Christ, in resurrection, was "flesh and bones", and we will be "like Him" when we see Him.
    Did I ever say what a spiritual body was like? It seems you think I am saying is some invisible glob. No it is physical. See my response #15.

  2. #17
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    Re: How do you suppose Christ will return?

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Could a spiritual body be bloodless? Not need blood to operate? For blood is the contamination making it corruptible. Thus flesh minus blood.

    Jesus had no corruption within him, spotless his blood was precious pure no decay. Thus he would have never died and had to take the sins of others voluntarily upon him to be able to die

    50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.


    Perhaps flesh can but not blood....
    Paul was referring to the current state of flesh and blood. It has been corrupted since the Garden of Eden and the Fall of Man. Jesus was pure flesh and blood, and he inherited the Kingdom of God. So Paul was talking specifically about the present state of flesh and blood existing in Fallen Man. He is talking about *corrupted* flesh and blood.

    *Corrupted* flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. We need to receive new, pure bodies. Christ's body was already pure, but he also received a new body. What that body looks like we don't know.

  3. #18

    Cool Re: How do you suppose Christ will return?

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Did I ever say what a spiritual body was like? It seems you think I am saying is some invisible glob. No it is physical. See my response #15.
    Glorious Body?

    Everyone says that we will have glorified bodies, after our resurrection. I don't agree, I think we will be spirit.

    Scripture says “God is a spirit.” Read John 4:24; 2 Cor. 3:17,18.

    Scripture also says we are going to be just like God and Jesus. I included Jesus for He is the image of the Father. Read Genesis 1:26; John 14:8, 9; 1 John 3:2. Looks like we will be spirits too. God could be among us and invisible like His angels are. He could make Himself visible and has done so in the past.

    Everything made in our universe was made by the unseen (spirits). Scripture speaks of the invisible spirit realm. Read Hebrews 11:3; 1 Timothy 1:17. Angels can make them selves visible also. Read 2 Kings 6:17; Numbers 22:31-34.

    Of course, Christ ascended and came back in a physical body. He even had the wounds from the cross. I believe this was for recognition purposes, so His disciples would recognize Him. Spirits can walk through walls and doors. God does not need a body. Read John 20:19, 20; Luke 24:36-40. Jesus had a tendency to appear from nothing startling the disciples.

    He also generated physical bodies for Himself and two angels (cherubim?) in the Plains of Mamre to talk to Abraham. He is God, He can do anything he wants. They also ate and drank. Jesus suggested we will do the same in the Kingdom. Read Genesis 18:1-8; Luke 22:30; Matthew 26:29. Although God can partake of food and drink, scripture suggests He does not need to. Read Psalms 50:7-13. It seems we can and will produce a body for certain functions in the kingdom, but it does not appear we will be depended on such.

    Stop and think about it. If our life force depended on a physical body, would it not be possible to blow up that body with explosives? How would we travel through the universe having to drag along a body? Would it require oxygen and water?

    What Will We Look Like?

    Okay, we have concluded we will be spirits. Next, let us address how we will appear. We can and will be invisible when we want to, that is a given of any spirit. Some suggests that Christ will look like He appeared after the resurrection for all eternity. I don’t believe He even looks like that now. Read 1 John 3:2; Revelation 1:12-16; Matthew 16:27, 24:30, 25:31; Luke 21:27; Mark 8:38, 18:26; John 17:5; Revelation 19:11-16.

    The transfiguration also suggests His glorified countenance. Read Matthew 17:1-3; Luke 9:29-31.

    Then there is the argument: But that is God we will not be like that. God did not say He was going to adopt us and make us pets, like puppy dogs. He said we will be sons. We will be in the God family, part of God! Read Daniel 12:3. Catch that? We will be bright as the stars.

    David even pondered the potential that God had endowed upon man. Read Psalms 8:1-9. Believe it or not, man has not reached that full potential yet. The author of Hebrews points this out when referring to that Psalms: Read Hebrews 2:5-10.

    What we will actually look like and what we will be capable of, remains somewhat a mystery. It will be glorious! (Read 1 John 3:2).
    John 15:17 "These things I command you, that ye love one another."

  4. #19
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    Re: How do you suppose Christ will return?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deade;3513773[CENTER
    Glorious Body?[/CENTER]

    Everyone says that we will have glorified bodies, after our resurrection. I don't agree, I think we will be spirit.

    Scripture says “God is a spirit.” Read John 4:24; 2 Cor. 3:17,18.

    Scripture also says we are going to be just like God and Jesus. I included Jesus for He is the image of the Father. Read Genesis 1:26; John 14:8, 9; 1 John 3:2. Looks like we will be spirits too. God could be among us and invisible like His angels are. He could make Himself visible and has done so in the past.

    Everything made in our universe was made by the unseen (spirits). Scripture speaks of the invisible spirit realm. Read Hebrews 11:3; 1 Timothy 1:17. Angels can make them selves visible also. Read 2 Kings 6:17; Numbers 22:31-34.

    Of course, Christ ascended and came back in a physical body. He even had the wounds from the cross. I believe this was for recognition purposes, so His disciples would recognize Him. Spirits can walk through walls and doors. God does not need a body. Read John 20:19, 20; Luke 24:36-40. Jesus had a tendency to appear from nothing startling the disciples.

    He also generated physical bodies for Himself and two angels (cherubim?) in the Plains of Mamre to talk to Abraham. He is God, He can do anything he wants. They also ate and drank. Jesus suggested we will do the same in the Kingdom. Read Genesis 18:1-8; Luke 22:30; Matthew 26:29. Although God can partake of food and drink, scripture suggests He does not need to. Read Psalms 50:7-13. It seems we can and will produce a body for certain functions in the kingdom, but it does not appear we will be depended on such.

    Stop and think about it. If our life force depended on a physical body, would it not be possible to blow up that body with explosives? How would we travel through the universe having to drag along a body? Would it require oxygen and water?

    What Will We Look Like?

    Okay, we have concluded we will be spirits. Next, let us address how we will appear. We can and will be invisible when we want to, that is a given of any spirit. Some suggests that Christ will look like He appeared after the resurrection for all eternity. I don’t believe He even looks like that now. Read 1 John 3:2; Revelation 1:12-16; Matthew 16:27, 24:30, 25:31; Luke 21:27; Mark 8:38, 18:26; John 17:5; Revelation 19:11-16.

    The transfiguration also suggests His glorified countenance. Read Matthew 17:1-3; Luke 9:29-31.

    Then there is the argument: But that is God we will not be like that. God did not say He was going to adopt us and make us pets, like puppy dogs. He said we will be sons. We will be in the God family, part of God! Read Daniel 12:3. Catch that? We will be bright as the stars.

    David even pondered the potential that God had endowed upon man. Read Psalms 8:1-9. Believe it or not, man has not reached that full potential yet. The author of Hebrews points this out when referring to that Psalms: Read Hebrews 2:5-10.

    What we will actually look like and what we will be capable of, remains somewhat a mystery. It will be glorious! (Read 1 John 3:2).
    You really need to use larger print! Anyway, I think that it is very confusing when you refer to our resurrection bodies being "spirits" and not glorified bodies. And I have no idea what you refer to when you say spirits created the universe?

    When the Scriptures say we were made in the image of God, they are not saying we were made spirits. We were made flesh and blood, and in that way made in the image of God. We're not in any way, shape, or form "part of God."

    It sounds like you've dabbled in some kind of esoteric theology, or cult? If not, perhaps you place a premium on being inventive, rather than trust in historic authorities and classic doctrine?

    I wouldn't get too far off the beaten path. You may wind up in total confusion. It's safe to say that Man was physically made in the image of God, so that we have physical bodies containing human spirits. The flesh and blood that must die is the flesh and blood that got corrupted by sin. The physical bodies we will have in the resurrection is unknown, but will be undoubtedly physical. The earth is our eternal home.

  5. #20
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    Re: How do you suppose Christ will return?

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Did I ever say what a spiritual body was like? It seems you think I am saying is some invisible glob. No it is physical. See my response #15.
    Here is your posting #10.

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Not sure anybody really answered the question...…

    He will return in a spiritual body, so not the natural body (flesh) of the earth.

    I Cor 15
    42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
    43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
    44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
    It is this point in red bold I contended with. God well bro.

  6. #21
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    Re: How do you suppose Christ will return?

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by [B
    Deade[/B];3513773][FONT=Book Antiqua][SIZE=1]
    Glorious Body?

    Everyone says that we will have glorified bodies, after our resurrection. I don't agree, I think we will be spirit.

    .../QUOTE]
    Consider this. It was the council of the Almighty to make man's body of dust. And it was to this man of dusty elements that He ordered that he might subdue and rule. Has He changed His plan?

    Our Lord Jesus, "heir to all things" is made a Man. You testify that the Lord Jesus came out the grave in fleshly form with His wounds "for recognition purposes". But scripture says the opposite. They did NOT recognize the Lord. Neither the women at the tomb, nor the men on the road to Emmaus recognized Him. But what is sure is that our Lord was "flesh and bone".

    There are three scriptures that are decisive about our Lord's Body. In ...
    1. John 19:37 is says; "And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced." This took place at the actual crucifixion of the Man Jesus
    2. Revelation 1:7 its say; "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen." When our Lord Jesus bursts forth from the clouds over Mount Olives 2,000 years later, "...the Tribes of the Land will mourn when they see Him Whom they PIERCED"
    3. Zechariah 12:10 it says; "And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn." This is the Lord Jesus as He lives in Jerusalem for 1,000 years after His second coming. For the whole Millennium Israel will look upon He Who is PIERCED

    I dare say that our Lord Jesus will be the same as He was on resurrection day, as He will be at His second coming, as He will be in eternity future - "flesh and bones" with wounds.

  7. #22
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    Re: How do you suppose Christ will return?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    I think that it is very confusing when you refer to our resurrection bodies being "spirits" and not glorified bodies.
    Why can't both can be one in the same?

    When the Scriptures say we were made in the image of God, they are not saying we were made spirits. We were made flesh and blood, and in that way made in the image of God.
    Yes the image of God IS being made a spirit not flesh and blood. Flesh and blood was a "formation" after the first week of created material from the first week.

    1. God is a spirit, his image is invisible thus being created in his image would be a spirit.
    2. Notice first week man is made after the animals, 2nd week man is on earth before animals.
    3. Seth is begat not in God's image but Adam's.

    Gen 5
    3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:

    4. Notice in the day man was created BOTH male and female were call Adam not Adam and Eve.

    Gen 5
    1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
    2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

    5. Paul even states the we were spiritual before we were natural.

    I Cor 15
    46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

    6. Paul also states a body was given unto every seed. Thus the seed and body were sown together, see being the spirit.

    I Cor 15
    38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body

    7. God stopped creating after the first week, all spirits must have been created during this first week, God does not create a spirit upon each birth.

    Gen 2
    1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
    2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
    3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

    8. God knew us from the foundation of the world. Spirits are eternal and in spirit we were there from the beginning.

    9. Where in the first week were the "spirits" created? Surely it would be mentioned.

  8. #23
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    Re: How do you suppose Christ will return?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Paul was referring to the current state of flesh and blood. It has been corrupted since the Garden of Eden and the Fall of Man. Jesus was pure flesh and blood, and he inherited the Kingdom of God. So Paul was talking specifically about the present state of flesh and blood existing in Fallen Man. He is talking about *corrupted* flesh and blood.

    *Corrupted* flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. We need to receive new, pure bodies. Christ's body was already pure, but he also received a new body. What that body looks like we don't know.
    ……………………………………………………………..

  9. #24
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    Re: How do you suppose Christ will return?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    Here is your posting #10.



    It is this point in red bold I contended with. God well bro.
    So flesh and blood can not inherit the KOG except for Jesus? So Jesus rose to heaven and sits on the throne in his natural body?

    44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

    Was not Jesus sown in a natural body? Hence he will be raised in a spiritual body and thus return in a spiritual body.

    39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

    Now this could have been just to be as a witness of the resurrection to all to remain in his natural body while on earth for the 40 days but then changed to the spiritual when taken up to heaven.

    Now at some point his natural body was glorified.

    39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)


    So open to thoughts, but I do not believe the son of man is the natural body of Jesus sitting on the throne in heaven.

  10. #25

    Cool Re: How do you suppose Christ will return?

    Originally Posted by Walls: I dare say that our Lord Jesus will be the same as He was on resurrection day, as He will be at His second coming, as He will be in eternity future - "flesh and bones" with wounds.
    1 Cor. 15:50 "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption."

    Rev. 1:12-15 [I]"And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; *And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters." /I]
    John 15:17 "These things I command you, that ye love one another."

  11. #26
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    Re: How do you suppose Christ will return?

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    So flesh and blood can not inherit the KOG except for Jesus? So Jesus rose to heaven and sits on the throne in his natural body?

    44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

    Was not Jesus sown in a natural body? Hence he will be raised in a spiritual body and thus return in a spiritual body.

    39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

    Now this could have been just to be as a witness of the resurrection to all to remain in his natural body while on earth for the 40 days but then changed to the spiritual when taken up to heaven.

    Now at some point his natural body was glorified.

    39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)


    So open to thoughts, but I do not believe the son of man is the natural body of Jesus sitting on the throne in heaven.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deade View Post
    1 Cor. 15:50 "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption."

    Rev. 1:12-15 [I]"And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; *And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters." /I]
    The answer is in the blood. "Flesh and BLOOD cannot inherit the Kingdom of God", but flesh and BONES can. Why?

    In Acts 17:26 we learn; "And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation." And in Genesis 9:4 we learn, "But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat." (See also Leviticus 17:11, 14 and Deuteronomy 12:23.) So, every man came from Adam's blood, and the life of the FLESH is in the blood. I make CAPITALS because a man's VITALITY comes from His spirit (Jas.2:26). The reproduction of all men EXCEPT our Lord Jesus came from Adam's blood, and even medical science knows that most of man's diseases come from his blood. It is Adam's blood that pollutes a man and causes sickness and physical death of a man. This is what is unfit for the Kingdom.*

    It is believed by many Christians that Christ and the Church are a picture of marriage. But it is the other way around. The grammar of Ephesians 5:32 shows the opposite. That is, marriage is but a picture of a much greater mystery - Christ and the Church. So, in the grand type of Christ and the Church, we have NO BLOOD. In BOTH the making of Eve in Genesis 2:23 and the union of Christ and the Church in Ephesians 5:30, THE WOMAN IS FLESH AND BONES of the man - not flesh and blood! The Jew nor the Gentile cannot be the wife of Jesus as they did not come out of Him like Eve came out of Adam. So their life is the blood. But a Christian does not need blood in resurrection. WHY? BECAUSE HE HAS ETERNAL LIFE - the LIFE of God. Thus, in resurrection the Christian is raised with "celestial glory" - because he is heavenly in origin and nature (Heb.3:1), but the Jew and the Gentile are only raised in "terrestrial glory" - men of the earth. They do not have eternal life because eternal life is only to be had by faith in Jesus (Jn.3:15). And this eternal life is the cause, in the next verse, John 3:16, of "everlasting life". So for the nations who have not eternal life, they must be sustained by the LEAVES of the Tree of Life after resurrection (Rev.22:2).

    I hope this is something you can work with.

    * In John 6:53 and 55 we are commanded to drink Christ's blood. Why? It is because His LIFE is in His blood - a LIFE He received not from Adam, but from His Father in heaven (Matt.1:18, Lk.1:35). Of course, we do not drink His physical blood, because it is embodied in the Spirit as you pointed out in John 7:39. When the disciples received this Spirit in John 20:22 they received the whole package of all that our Lord Jesus is and has. The symbolism (if you'll allow) in eating His flesh and drinking His blood is to partake of His HUMANITY. God does not want "spirit-men". He has His angels as spirit beings. He created man as a soul with a body - and it is this man, after his sin is put away and God's Life imparted to him, that makes him all that God wanted for the earth. In Romans 8:29 the "predestination" is NOT for salvation. It reads; "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren." What is the context of this verse ? The salvation of the BODY! (v.23). God wants His Son Jesus, firstfruits of the dead, to be the firstborn from the dead (Col.1:18) of many like Himself.

  12. #27

    Cool Re: How do you suppose Christ will return?

    " Originally Posted by Walls: It is believed by many Christians that Christ and the Church are a picture of marriage. But it is the other way around. The grammar of Ephesians 5:32 shows the opposite. That is, marriage is but a picture of a much greater mystery - Christ and the Church. So, in the grand type of Christ and the Church, we have NO BLOOD. In BOTH the making of Eve in Genesis 2:23 and the union of Christ and the Church in Ephesians 5:30, THE WOMAN IS FLESH AND BONES of the man - not flesh and blood! The Jew nor the Gentile cannot be the wife of Jesus as they did not come out of Him like Eve came out of Adam. So their life is the blood. But a Christian does not need blood in resurrection. WHY? BECAUSE HE HAS ETERNAL LIFE - the LIFE of God. Thus, in resurrection the Christian is raised with "celestial glory" - because he is heavenly in origin and nature (Heb.3:1), but the Jew and the Gentile are only raised in "terrestrial glory" - men of the earth.
    Oh my! It's like trying to witness to Seventh-Day Adventist. They also think there will be fleshly bodies without blood. I am not sure how that is supposed to work. What will carry nutrients to the body, antifreeze?

    Why does everyone deny what God consists of? John 4:24 "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."

    1 John 3:2 "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is."

    Are you suggesting that Jesus will consist of something different than the heavenly Father?

    John 14:9,10 "Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works."

    John 12:45 "And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me." I rest my case.
    John 15:17 "These things I command you, that ye love one another."

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    Re: How do you suppose Christ will return?

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Why can't both can be one in the same?
    If that's what you're saying, fine. But to say we'll have *exclusively spirit bodies,* without any physical attributes, is not a resurrection. It would be a transformation into something entirely different. I do think we will be different. But I believe we will have to have physical bodies to live on the new earth.

    Quote Originally Posted by ross
    Yes the image of God IS being made a spirit not flesh and blood. Flesh and blood was a "formation" after the first week of created material from the first week.
    The first man was made in the image of God, and was, in fact, a physical being of *flesh and blood.*

    Quote Originally Posted by ross
    1. God is a spirit, his image is invisible thus being created in his image would be a spirit.
    I've already shown you where this is wrong. Adam was made in the image of God as a physical human being. That is, his physical being was itself representative of God's image. It is *not* just the spiritual quality within Adam, but the whole body, spirit, soul, and body, that was made in the image of God.

    Quote Originally Posted by ross
    2. Notice first week man is made after the animals, 2nd week man is on earth before animals.
    Not a contradiction. Moses likely wrote both accounts, and obviously did not mean this to be contradictory. Since the first account was clearly the order in time, the 2nd account had to do with God's anticipated purpose, that man, once created, would need company.

    Quote Originally Posted by ross
    3. Seth is begat not in God's image but Adam's.
    Yes, it is a sequence. 1st, we are made in God's image. And then Adam's children take on his image. The 1st man is representative of God's image as a physical human being. Seth is representative of Adam's image as a physical human being.

    Quote Originally Posted by ross
    Gen 5
    3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:

    4. Notice in the day man was created BOTH male and female were call Adam not Adam and Eve.
    The way I read it, Man is a generic term, representing all of mankind. Adam was the 1st man. No, Adam was not Eve! And I seriously hope you will agree with me!

    Quote Originally Posted by ross
    Gen 5
    1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
    2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

    5. Paul even states the we were spiritual before we were natural.

    I Cor 15
    46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

    6. Paul also states a body was given unto every seed. Thus the seed and body were sown together, see being the spirit.

    I Cor 15
    38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body

    7. God stopped creating after the first week, all spirits must have been created during this first week, God does not create a spirit upon each birth.

    Gen 2
    1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
    2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
    3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

    8. God knew us from the foundation of the world. Spirits are eternal and in spirit we were there from the beginning.

    9. Where in the first week were the "spirits" created? Surely it would be mentioned.
    I don't know what you mean by "spirits were there from the beginning?" We did not exist as humans until we were conceived. Our spirits did not pre-exist our bodies.

    As I said earlier, the "natural," referred to by Paul, was what God meant to be spiritual, but turned away to a strict "naturalism." The true spiritual fulfillment of Man came by Christ. And that followed "Natural Man."

  14. #29
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    Re: How do you suppose Christ will return?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deade View Post
    Oh my! It's like trying to witness to Seventh-Day Adventist. They also think there will be fleshly bodies without blood. I am not sure how that is supposed to work. What will carry nutrients to the body, antifreeze?

    Why does everyone deny what God consists of? John 4:24 "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."

    1 John 3:2 "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is."

    Are you suggesting that Jesus will consist of something different than the heavenly Father?

    John 14:9,10 "Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works."

    John 12:45 "And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me." I rest my case.
    OK. I'm sorry you found the verses inaccurate, and not worthy of comment. So all you now have to do is show how both Moses and our Lord Jesus survived 40 days and 40 nights on God's Word alone. You'll no doubt have an explanation as to nutrients - especially no water in Sinai for 40 days. Or don't you believe these scriptures as well?
    Exodus 34:28; "And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments."
    Matthew 4:4; (and Luke 4:4); "But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God."

    And yes, I do make a difference between God's substance and that of Jesus simply because scripture does.
    God:
    John 4:24; "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."
    Numbers 23:19; "God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?"

    Our Lord Jesus:
    1st Timothy 2:5; "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."
    Luke 24:39; "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."

  15. #30

    Cool Re: How do you suppose Christ will return?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    OK. I'm sorry you found the verses inaccurate, and not worthy of comment. So all you now have to do is show how both Moses and our Lord Jesus survived 40 days and 40 nights on God's Word alone. You'll no doubt have an explanation as to nutrients - especially no water in Sinai for 40 days. Or don't you believe these scriptures as well?
    Exodus 34:28; "And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments."
    Matthew 4:4; (and Luke 4:4); "But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God."

    And yes, I do make a difference between God's substance and that of Jesus simply because scripture does.
    God:
    John 4:24; "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."
    Numbers 23:19; "God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?"

    Our Lord Jesus:
    1st Timothy 2:5; "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."
    Luke 24:39; "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."
    Spirits can walk through walls and doors. God does not need a body. Read John 20:19, 20; Luke 24:36-40. Jesus had a tendency to appear from nothing startling the disciples.

    He also generated physical bodies for Himself and two angels (cherubim?) in the Plains of Mamre to talk to Abraham. He is God, He can do anything he wants. They also ate and drank. Jesus suggested we will do the same in the Kingdom. Read Genesis 18:1-8; Luke 22:30; Matthew 26:29. Although God can partake of food and drink, scripture suggests He does not need to. Read Psalms 50:7-13. It seems we can and will produce a body for certain functions in the kingdom, but it does not appear we will be depended on such.

    Stop and think about it. If our life force depended on a physical body, would it not be possible to blow up that body with explosives? How would we travel through the universe having to drag along a body? Would it require oxygen and water?
    John 15:17 "These things I command you, that ye love one another."

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