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Thread: How do you suppose Christ will return?

  1. #31
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    Re: How do you suppose Christ will return?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deade View Post
    Spirits can walk through walls and doors. God does not need a body. Read John 20:19, 20; Luke 24:36-40. Jesus had a tendency to appear from nothing startling the disciples.

    He also generated physical bodies for Himself and two angels (cherubim?) in the Plains of Mamre to talk to Abraham. He is God, He can do anything he wants. They also ate and drank. Jesus suggested we will do the same in the Kingdom. Read Genesis 18:1-8; Luke 22:30; Matthew 26:29. Although God can partake of food and drink, scripture suggests He does not need to. Read Psalms 50:7-13. It seems we can and will produce a body for certain functions in the kingdom, but it does not appear we will be depended on such.

    Stop and think about it. If our life force depended on a physical body, would it not be possible to blow up that body with explosives? How would we travel through the universe having to drag along a body? Would it require oxygen and water?
    In the end it is not what God needs or not. It is what He has revealed to us in His Word first, and nature second. It is then our duty to embrace that. I have produced very little of my own words in my last posting and much of His Words. You have two options. Embrace God's Words for what they say, or show me that they mean something else than I have proposed. You have not commented on my arguments or the scriptures proffered. So, until that happens, I will let my two previous postings stand.

    Now I will answer your quote above.

    You say that God does not need a Body. Let Him answer that. John 2:21; "But he spake of the temple of his body." God seeks a dwelling on earth. The Tabernacle and the two Temples are the center of the whole Old Testament. But God seeks a more worthy Temple, so He gave Jesus Christ a BODY. This BODY is then expanded by the Church being built, and the Church, the BODY of Christ, will show God's glory "in the ages to come" (Eph.2:7). Thus, Hebrews 10:5 says; "Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me." Then, Christ's job being to build His Church, we learn in 1st Corinthians 6:15 that; "Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid." Your proposal that bodies are done away with, or that God does not need bodies, is diametrically opposed to God's most cherished plan.

    That our Lord suddenly appeared to His disciples who were behind a locked door no doubt proves special ability. So also His ability to disappear from their sight suddenly. But it is an absolute exception. God made physical man for the physical earth (Gen.1:26-28). God made Laws for the earth and man. There is no requirement for "travel through the universe". This is your imagination. When our Lord Jesus was raptured from Mount Olives He did not defy gravity. He was "TAKEN UP" (Act.1:2, 9, 11) indicating the action of outside force - that of angels no doubt. When we are raptured it is in resurrection bodies by angels (Matt.13:39-41). And when Christ collects the Israelites who were scattered to the four winds, it is by angels (Matt.24:31). Even when our Lord was tempted by Satan, it was Satan, an angel, who carried Jesus the Man, to the Temple roof and the high mountain. May I suggest that we don't apply our imagination to scripture. It is dreadfully fallen. From it comes all manner of mischief. Let us stick to God's Words and form our thoughts from that.

    The human body was God's council and desire. If he had eaten from the Tree of Life he would have lived in that bodily condition for ever. Sin came in and polluted the body, so God prepares a new one. This is the grand truth of resurrection.

  2. #32

    Cool Re: How do you suppose Christ will return?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    In the end it is not what God needs or not. It is what He has revealed to us in His Word first, and nature second. It is then our duty to embrace that. I have produced very little of my own words in my last posting and much of His Words. You have two options. Embrace God's Words for what they say, or show me that they mean something else than I have proposed. You have not commented on my arguments or the scriptures proffered. So, until that happens, I will let my two previous postings stand.

    Now I will answer your quote above.

    You say that God does not need a Body. Let Him answer that. John 2:21; "But he spake of the temple of his body." God seeks a dwelling on earth. The Tabernacle and the two Temples are the center of the whole Old Testament. But God seeks a more worthy Temple, so He gave Jesus Christ a BODY. This BODY is then expanded by the Church being built, and the Church, the BODY of Christ, will show God's glory "in the ages to come" (Eph.2:7). Thus, Hebrews 10:5 says; "Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me." Then, Christ's job being to build His Church, we learn in 1st Corinthians 6:15 that; "Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid." Your proposal that bodies are done away with, or that God does not need bodies, is diametrically opposed to God's most cherished plan.

    That our Lord suddenly appeared to His disciples who were behind a locked door no doubt proves special ability. So also His ability to disappear from their sight suddenly. But it is an absolute exception. God made physical man for the physical earth (Gen.1:26-28). God made Laws for the earth and man. There is no requirement for "travel through the universe". This is your imagination. When our Lord Jesus was raptured from Mount Olives He did not defy gravity. He was "TAKEN UP" (Act.1:2, 9, 11) indicating the action of outside force - that of angels no doubt. When we are raptured it is in resurrection bodies by angels (Matt.13:39-41). And when Christ collects the Israelites who were scattered to the four winds, it is by angels (Matt.24:31). Even when our Lord was tempted by Satan, it was Satan, an angel, who carried Jesus the Man, to the Temple roof and the high mountain. May I suggest that we don't apply our imagination to scripture. It is dreadfully fallen. From it comes all manner of mischief. Let us stick to God's Words and form our thoughts from that.

    The human body was God's council and desire. If he had eaten from the Tree of Life he would have lived in that bodily condition for ever. Sin came in and polluted the body, so God prepares a new one. This is the grand truth of resurrection.
    All these words of yours say nothing of what we will be like in the kingdom. Christ will surely not look like a mere man. We even have scripture for that: 1 John 3:2 "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is."

    Rev. 1:13-16 "And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength."

    If we will be like Him will we not be spirit? John 4:24 "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." I don't know about you, but I expect to be.
    John 15:17 "These things I command you, that ye love one another."

  3. #33
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    Re: How do you suppose Christ will return?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deade View Post

    If we will be like Him will we not be spirit? John 4:24 "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." I don't know about you, but I expect to be.

    That is a reference to God the holy spirit not to God the Son. God the Son has a glorified body that is humanoid in form...looks exactly like his old body and even retained the scars. Our glorified body will looks like the body we have now but will be glorified flesh rather than the mortal flesh we have now but we will visually look the same...the bodies will have a certain visible "age" to them I'm sure...so if a man dies at 90, his glorified body won't look 90 IMO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deade View Post

    If we will be like Him will we not be spirit? John 4:24 "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." I don't know about you, but I expect to be.

    That is a reference to God the holy spirit not to God the Son. God the Son has a glorified body that is humanoid in form...looks exactly like his old body and even retained the scars. Our glorified body will looks like the body we have now but will be glorified flesh rather than the mortal flesh we have now but we will visually look the same...the bodies will have a certain visible "age" to them I'm sure...so if a man dies at 90, his glorified body won't look 90 IMO.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  4. #34
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    Re: How do you suppose Christ will return?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    God the Son has a glorified body that is humanoid in form...looks exactly like his old body and even retained the scars.
    I agree with the scars, but nobody seemed to recognize him when he appeared after the resurrection.

    There is hope for the elephant man.
    And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

  5. #35
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    Re: How do you suppose Christ will return?

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffweeder View Post
    I agree with the scars, but nobody seemed to recognize him when he appeared after the resurrection.
    Some did, some didn't.

    Joh 20:15 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.
    Joh 20:16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.
    Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  6. #36
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    Re: How do you suppose Christ will return?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Some did, some didn't.

    Joh 20:15 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.
    Joh 20:16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.
    Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
    cool.


    Lk 24
    13 And behold, two of them were going that very day to a village named Emmaus, which was about seven miles from Jerusalem. 14 And they were talking with each other about all these things which had taken place. 15 While they were talking and discussing, Jesus Himself approached and began traveling with them. 16 But their eyes were prevented from recognizing Him.


    Jn 21
    After these things Jesus manifested Himself again to the disciples at the Sea of Tiberias, and He manifested Himself in this way. 2 Simon Peter, and Thomas called Didymus, and Nathanael of Cana in Galilee, and the sons of Zebedee, and two others of His disciples were together. 3 Simon Peter *said to them, “I am going fishing.” They *said to him, “We will also come with you.” They went out and got into the boat; and that night they caught nothing.
    4 But when the day was now breaking, Jesus stood on the beach; yet the disciples did not know that it was Jesus.

    5 So Jesus *said to them, “Children, you do not have any fish, do you?” They answered Him, “No.” 6 And He said to them, “Cast the net on the right-hand side of the boat and you will find a catch.” So they cast, and then they were not able to haul it in because of the great number of fish. 7 Therefore that disciple whom Jesus loved *said to Peter, “It is the Lord.”


    Fascinating stuff.
    And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

  7. #37
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    Re: How do you suppose Christ will return?

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffweeder View Post
    cool.
    It getts cooler:

    Joh 20:15 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.
    Joh 20:16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.
    Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
    Joh 20:18 Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her.
    Joh 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
    Joh 20:20 And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.

    So, there were times people saw Jesus and knew who he was. Other times people saw him and did not recognize him...but that's because Jesus made them unable to. "But their eyes were prevented from recognizing Him"
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  8. #38
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    Re: How do you suppose Christ will return?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    It getts cooler:

    Joh 20:15 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.
    Joh 20:16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.
    Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
    Joh 20:18 Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her.
    Joh 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
    Joh 20:20 And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.

    So, there were times people saw Jesus and knew who he was. Other times people saw him and did not recognize him...but that's because Jesus made them unable to. "But their eyes were prevented from recognizing Him"
    Amen.
    I was only trying to get on your good side Bro
    And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

  9. #39
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    Re: How do you suppose Christ will return?

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffweeder View Post
    Amen.
    I was only trying to get on your good side Bro
    You and I will have a great many beliefs in common, just not the Amil stuff and nothing Partial Preterist related. You don't accept pretib rapture nor do I, and you likely don't see the Ezekiel 40+ chapters as the future Millennium...I don't. We likely both will agree that gentiles being grafted onto the olive tree means they are joining Israel in faithfulness in Christ.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  10. #40

    Cool Re: How do you suppose Christ will return?

    "And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength" (Rev. 1:15,16).
    Dan. 12:2,3 "And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever."

    Looks like we will be shining also just like Jesus!
    John 15:17 "These things I command you, that ye love one another."

  11. #41
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    Re: How do you suppose Christ will return?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deade View Post
    Looks like we will be shining also just like Jesus! [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
    Yes , when he appears a second time we shall be like him for we shall see him as he is.

    That beats the hell out of being eternally separated when he appears a second time.

    6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, 8 dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed—for our testimony to you was believed.

  12. #42
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    Re: How do you suppose Christ will return?

    Quote Originally Posted by nickm727 View Post
    In the flesh or in the spirit?

    When Jesus ministered he only went through Israel. One must not forget that it was the spirit of the Lord that converted Paul.

    Its not like God came through a loud speaker to the people and everyone heard his voice in the sky. He came through Moses and the beautiful part about that is that Aaron and the rest of the Jews heard God as well. We are all gifted with a telepathic ability that we must cultivate for it is the spirit of the Lord that connects us all.
    My understanding is that it will be both ...

    1 Corinthians 12:27

    Now you are Christ's body, and individually members of it.
    ***
    Lead me in Your truth and teach me,
    For You are the God of my salvation;
    On You I wait all the day.

    Psalms 25:5
    ***

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