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Thread: Why is only satan bound for 1000 years?

  1. #91
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    Re: Why is only satan bound for 1000 years?

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Sorry, but the people who were raised from the dead in Matthew, were raised PRIOR to Jesus' resurrection. Yet NO ONE is resurrected prior to Jesus.
    Very true.

    Nope, it simply means what it says, that through the testimony of saints THROUGH the Age, and WITH the blood of the Lamb (BOTH required) Satan is defeated IN Heaven.
    It does NOT refer to Satan being cast out of an individual's life.
    Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

    Does the testimony of saints through the ages and their pleading of the blood of the Lamb lead to Satan's defeat in heaven? Not according to the above. In the preceding verse 10, Satan is called "the accuser of the brethren". This gives us an understanding of v-11.

    Satan's primary objective is to deceive and (report/accuse them before God). He succeeds when the gullible turn against God. Conversely, the devout and faithful know their God and are consequently impervious to Satan's lies. In their defence, they testified Christ and used his blood as a weapon to overcome the wiles of the devil. Their faith in God is unshakable, so much so that they are willing to die rather than yield to Satan.

    This is sum total of what v-11 means - it is merely the redemption of the saints for their trust and faith in Christ. There's nothing in the passages that leads one to believe the victory of the saints is the reason Satan is defeated in heaven. Satan's defeat is a long time coming - he is not being judged on the victory of the church over him, but for his disobedience and attacks against God.

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    Re: Why is only satan bound for 1000 years?

    You said “early Christian” wrote about your view point. Regardless if they were Jewish or gentile would make them apart of the ante nicean group associated with those fathers. We only have a limited number of records of any of those “early Christian” writings. No one taught that the beast in Daniel was different that’s the beast in Rev.

    Using pre Christian sources like Maccabees does not qualify as “early Christian” and cannot be a valid source of our discussion because Revelation was not even written then!
    I didn't say anyone wrote on it I said some believed it and passed it on down that's how I am aware of it so some did believe it. again I didn't say that the Maccabees was a Christian source and of course revelation wasn't written back in that time my point was to shed light on Antiochus Epiphanies life and events which match the little horns events.


    It’s not ridicules, I actually study their writings. You do not. Therefore, by what authority can you say my statement is ridicules when you don’t even know the material? There is a plethora of historical writings available on the believers, church leaders and theologians of the first millennia. To my knowledge there was not anyone who taught that the beast in Dan was DIFFERENT than the one in Rev in any of the historical writings. They all taught they were the same. Your interpretation is simply a private one compared to the understanding of church history dating back to the time of Christ.
    Now saying to your knowledge is a good fair statement but it is not my private view. I bend and honor the bible and history not other people views.

  3. #93
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    Re: Why is only satan bound for 1000 years?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Very true.
    Agreed.

    Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

    Does the testimony of saints through the ages and their pleading of the blood of the Lamb lead to Satan's defeat in heaven? Not according to the above. In the preceding verse 10, Satan is called "the accuser of the brethren". This gives us an understanding of v-11.

    Satan's primary objective is to deceive and (report/accuse them before God). He succeeds when the gullible turn against God. Conversely, the devout and faithful know their God and are consequently impervious to Satan's lies. In their defence, they testified Christ and used his blood as a weapon to overcome the wiles of the devil. Their faith in God is unshakable, so much so that they are willing to die rather than yield to Satan.

    This is sum total of what v-11 means - it is merely the redemption of the saints for their trust and faith in Christ. There's nothing in the passages that leads one to believe the victory of the saints is the reason Satan is defeated in heaven. Satan's defeat is a long time coming - he is not being judged on the victory of the church over him, but for his disobedience and attacks against God.
    I have to disagree for the very simple reason that verse 11 starts with "And they overcame..."
    What is the AND related to?
    Rev 12:10* And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, “Now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God.*

    Very clearly to verse 10. Now we agree that Satan is the Accuser, for that is what that particular name of his means.
    Yet the statement is about Satan being thrown down.
    Thrown down FROM where and TO where?
    FROM heaven TO earth as verse 9 attests:
    Rev 12:9* And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

    IOW verses 7 - 11 speak about the mechanism of Satan's defeat.
    Satan is defeated in the war in heaven and is thrown down - as stated in verse 8 and 9, then verse 10 affirms that the accuser has been thrown down, THEN verse 11 states that he (which is ONLY referring to the accuser - Satan) has been thrown done by the blood of the Lamb AND the word of THEIR testimony (which can ONLY refer to believers).

    Verse 11 is NOT stated in a vacuum, but in a CONTEXT in which the accuser is cast OUT of heaven.
    This speaks of THEY as a group and NOT about an individual.

    It is also NOT about the redemption of the saints either as you claim, as the redemption of the saints is by the blood of the Lamb, NOT by works or by our patient endurance even to death.
    So yes to understand verse 11 we need to understand verse 10, but you seem to home in ONLY on what Satan's name means, and miss the ENTIRE wood for the tree.

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    Re: Why is only satan bound for 1000 years?

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post

    The 7 Heads of Rev. are all the Beasts.
    None of them are beasts. The heads are mountains where the whore sits, and also is land where the ten kingdoms/horns occupy.

    Rev 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

    Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: Why is only satan bound for 1000 years?

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    The 11th Horn is the 7th Head. Only six heads have come, the 7th will be the Anti-Christ.

    The CROWNS DESIGNATE who is being spoken of, the 7 Heads and 10 horns ever change, Daniel just isn't told about anything that came before him per se, and Gabriel/God is vague about the Last Beast a reconstituted Rome so to speak. But he is different from the 1st [Rome Beast] in that he is the Beast all unto himself.

    Rev. 12 is about Satan, thus the CROWNS are on the Head and Satan is over all the Kingdoms of the Earth, these are just 7 in a certain Region.

    Rev. 13 is about the Anti-Christ, thus the CROWNS are on the 10 Horns who freely give their power unto him. This hes over 10 Kings, who the Conquer the World, but they are all under Satan, thus he has ONLY CROWNS on the 10 Kings [Horns}.

    Rev. 17 is about a Demon named Apollyon, thus he a Scarlet Colored Beat not the Red Dragon, he has NO CROWNS, because in the heavenlies hes under Satan he is a King, but hes the King of the bottomless pit, thus he is of the 7 but is an 8th. Satan places Demon over regions/cities/countries etc. He was the prince of Persia who withstood Michael for 21 days, he was over Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, then Greece and Rome....then he WAS NOT in that God placed him in the bottomless pit where he resides even now. When its time to revive the Beast he will be released at the 1st Woe, thus HE WAS........IS NOT...........YET IS.

    Daniel and Revelation is about the same Kingdoms on earth, John is just shown more details about the Little Horn and eve about Apollyon. John is given the False Prophet, Daniel was not given the False Prophet, though he does talk a little about his TYPE without mentioning his name {Jason} in Daniel 11 when he speaks about the children of Israel doing exploits to save their country in Daniel 11:30-33.

    The reason Daniel was not given the info about the coming False Prophet is very evident, remember how King Herod tried to kill all the babies under 2 because of a Prophecy about the coming King Jesus ? Well times 100 the High Priests of Israel who would have been killed during the next 500 years if Daniel had of bee given what John was given, thus Daniel was given nothing about the coming False Prophet, who will be a High Priest. {Jason, real name Yeshua, tried to Hellenize the Jews but the Maccabeans Revolted}.

    The 7 Heads of Rev. are all the Beasts.
    I use to view these things like you do but now I see most of this as historical

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    Re: Why is only satan bound for 1000 years?

    [QUOTE=ForHisglory;3509597]
    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    You said it said through the age not me that was your statement
    I don’t see what your getting at Michael cast Satan out of heaven not us we over come satan in our lives through Christ/QUOTE]
    I did indeed say through the age.
    The statement in Rev 12 is very CLEAR and I wonder at you not reading what is stated:
    Rev 12:11* And they have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, for they loved not their lives even unto death.

    Is this Michael conquering Satan?
    No, this is about HOW Michael is able to cast Satan out of Heaven.
    TWO things stated:
    1) the blood of the Lamb
    2) the word of their testimony

    The "their" in their testimony is NOT Michael's testimony but the saints.

    So Michael casts Satan out of heaven BECAUSE of the blood of the Lamb AND the word of testimony.

    This is NOT about US overcoming Satan in our lives, but about US together, by our testimony gaining the victory over Satan.
    It is NOT about an individual therefore triumphing over Satan, but the COLLECTIVE of ALL our testimony triumphing over Satan.

    IOW it is NOT about ME an individual, but US as His witnesses.
    This ties back into the delay in Rev 6:11 whilst they wait for more to be slain - note they loved not their lives unto death.

    Therefore there is NO POSSIBLE way this can be referring to people who died PRIOR to Jesus, nor is about when Jesus died.
    The way i see it is Jesus ascends Back up to his throne back in acts 1 which is the same time as Daniel 7:13-14


    Satan is then cast out of heaven by Michael because of Jesus took his authority (Michael and his angels are mentioned for a reason) he can’t accuse us anymore because Jesus has made us perfect

    Then we over come satan in our life by being made perfect in life from Jesus and we love God more than our lives and hold fast to our end

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    Re: Why is only satan bound for 1000 years?

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    I use to view these things like you do but now I see most of this as historical
    Why ? Rev. 1:1 has a lot of people confused, or a few people confused as per the timing. Jesus is referencing thar when he returns it will be in a SHORT or SPEEDY TIME FRAME. Like in the block of an eye, it doesn't mean he was coming back shortly. The Greek root words tell us that. There are two Greek root words used there where the placed shortly. One is EN and means at a FIXED POINT IN TIME [PLACE OR STATE]. And the other is TACHOS {where we get the word tachometer from} and it means SPEEDILY or in HASTE or in a SHORT TIME FRAME [a flash....BOOM].

    So Jesus will come at a future point in time, when the Father says GO.....And he will come in a flash ot in miliseconds.....BOOM [Speedily or in haste].

    So how do people come up with these new found understandings when they are not in the scriptures, is it misconstruing the passages ? I don't get it to be honest.

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    I use to view these things like you do but now I see most of this as historical
    Why ? Rev. 1:1 has a lot of people confused, or a few people confused as per the timing. Jesus is referencing thar when he returns it will be in a SHORT or SPEEDY TIME FRAME. Like in the block of an eye, it doesn't mean he was coming back shortly. The Greek root words tell us that. There are two Greek root words used there where the placed shortly. One is EN and means at a FIXED POINT IN TIME [PLACE OR STATE]. And the other is TACHOS {where we get the word tachometer from} and it means SPEEDILY or in HASTE or in a SHORT TIME FRAME [a flash....BOOM].

    So Jesus will come at a future point in time, when the Father says GO.....And he will come in a flash ot in miliseconds.....BOOM [Speedily or in haste].

    So how do people come up with these new found understandings when they are not in the scriptures, is it misconstruing the passages ? I don't get it to be honest.

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    Re: Why is only satan bound for 1000 years?

    [QUOTE=marty fox;3509695]
    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post

    The way i see it is Jesus ascends Back up to his throne back in acts 1 which is the same time as Daniel 7:13-14


    Satan is then cast out of heaven by Michael because of Jesus took his authority (Michael and his angels are mentioned for a reason) he can’t accuse us anymore because Jesus has made us perfect

    Then we over come satan in our life by being made perfect in life from Jesus and we love God more than our lives and hold fast to our end
    This all clearly happens at the Midway point of the Tribulation. Daniel 12:1-2 says it happens when the Resurrection happens at the End Times.

    [QUOTE=marty fox;3509695]
    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post

    The way i see it is Jesus ascends Back up to his throne back in acts 1 which is the same time as Daniel 7:13-14


    Satan is then cast out of heaven by Michael because of Jesus took his authority (Michael and his angels are mentioned for a reason) he can’t accuse us anymore because Jesus has made us perfect

    Then we over come satan in our life by being made perfect in life from Jesus and we love God more than our lives and hold fast to our end
    This all clearly happens at the Midway point of the Tribulation. Daniel 12:1-2 says it happens when the Resurrection happens at the End Times.

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    Re: Why is only satan bound for 1000 years?

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    Why ? Rev. 1:1 has a lot of people confused, or a few people confused as per the timing. Jesus is referencing thar when he returns it will be in a SHORT or SPEEDY TIME FRAME. Like in the block of an eye, it doesn't mean he was coming back shortly. The Greek root words tell us that. There are two Greek root words used there where the placed shortly. One is EN and means at a FIXED POINT IN TIME [PLACE OR STATE]. And the other is TACHOS {where we get the word tachometer from} and it means SPEEDILY or in HASTE or in a SHORT TIME FRAME [a flash....BOOM].

    So Jesus will come at a future point in time, when the Father says GO.....And he will come in a flash ot in miliseconds.....BOOM [Speedily or in haste].

    So how do people come up with these new found understandings when they are not in the scriptures, is it misconstruing the passages ? I don't get it to be honest.



    Why ? Rev. 1:1 has a lot of people confused, or a few people confused as per the timing. Jesus is referencing thar when he returns it will be in a SHORT or SPEEDY TIME FRAME. Like in the block of an eye, it doesn't mean he was coming back shortly. The Greek root words tell us that. There are two Greek root words used there where the placed shortly. One is EN and means at a FIXED POINT IN TIME [PLACE OR STATE]. And the other is TACHOS {where we get the word tachometer from} and it means SPEEDILY or in HASTE or in a SHORT TIME FRAME [a flash....BOOM].

    So Jesus will come at a future point in time, when the Father says GO.....And he will come in a flash ot in miliseconds.....BOOM [Speedily or in haste].

    So how do people come up with these new found understandings when they are not in the scriptures, is it misconstruing the passages ? I don't get it to be honest.
    Because I see revelation much more than a bloody future time in our world

    Revelation is the revelation of Jesus Christ who he is and what he did he is god and he ushered in the new covenant

    Revelation is also a book of transition it a transition from the old covenant to the new covenant a transition from a earthly Jerusalem to the New Jerusalem the Jerusalem from above

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    Re: Why is only satan bound for 1000 years?

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    The way i see it is Jesus ascends Back up to his throne back in acts 1 which is the same time as Daniel 7:13-14
    Satan is then cast out of heaven by Michael because of Jesus took his authority (Michael and his angels are mentioned for a reason) he can’t accuse us anymore because Jesus has made us perfect
    Then we over come satan in our life by being made perfect in life from Jesus and we love God more than our lives and hold fast to our end
    Nope, Satan is NOT cast out of heaven back when Jesus ascended EVEN IF you associate Dan 7 with Acts 1 (which I don't).
    Jesus is directly spoken of by John in 1 John as the Advocate, He is the one who is at the right hand of the Father speaking in our defence against he Accuser of the brethren.
    I do get what you are claiming, and I think why, but Rev 12 doesn't support your interpretation nor do other scriptures.
    Rev 12 does NOT say anything about overcoming Satan in our individual lives.
    So though it is TRUE that we overcome Satan whilst we are being made perfect, the connection is not there for this passage.

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    Re: Why is only satan bound for 1000 years?

    Quote Originally Posted by ForHisglory View Post
    Agreed.


    I have to disagree for the very simple reason that verse 11 starts with "And they overcame..."
    What is the AND related to?
    Rev 12:10* And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, “Now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God.*

    Very clearly to verse 10. Now we agree that Satan is the Accuser, for that is what that particular name of his means.
    Yet the statement is about Satan being thrown down.
    Thrown down FROM where and TO where?
    FROM heaven TO earth as verse 9 attests:
    Rev 12:9* And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

    IOW verses 7 - 11 speak about the mechanism of Satan's defeat.
    Satan is defeated in the war in heaven and is thrown down - as stated in verse 8 and 9, then verse 10 affirms that the accuser has been thrown down, THEN verse 11 states that he (which is ONLY referring to the accuser - Satan) has been thrown done by the blood of the Lamb AND the word of THEIR testimony (which can ONLY refer to believers).

    Verse 11 is NOT stated in a vacuum, but in a CONTEXT in which the accuser is cast OUT of heaven.
    This speaks of THEY as a group and NOT about an individual.

    It is also NOT about the redemption of the saints either as you claim, as the redemption of the saints is by the blood of the Lamb, NOT by works or by our patient endurance even to death.
    So yes to understand verse 11 we need to understand verse 10, but you seem to home in ONLY on what Satan's name means, and miss the ENTIRE wood for the tree.
    This looks like of one those arguments we must agree to disagree. It is not the testimony of the saints that led to the defeat and casting out of Satan from heaven. Far from it, in Isaiah 27:1 God promised he will "punish" the dragon and this was long before the advent of the church. So for me, "they (saints) overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and the word of their testimony" is a testimony of faith and perseverance. Fortunately, we agree that Satan is the accuser of the brethren. We see in the case of Joshua (Zech 3:1-4) in the time before Christ, that God himself had to step in and intervene.

    While the saints are redeemed by the blood of the Lamb, it is their faith and confession of the blood that made them victorious over the devil.

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    Re: Why is only satan bound for 1000 years?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    This looks like of one those arguments we must agree to disagree. It is not the testimony of the saints that led to the defeat and casting out of Satan from heaven. Far from it, in Isaiah 27:1 God promised he will "punish" the dragon and this was long before the advent of the church. So for me, "they (saints) overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and the word of their testimony" is a testimony of faith and perseverance. Fortunately, we agree that Satan is the accuser of the brethren. We see in the case of Joshua (Zech 3:1-4) in the time before Christ, that God himself had to step in and intervene.
    The fact that God would punish the dragon and says so in Isaiah 27 doesn't negate the Church from the picture.
    It is a testimony first of all about Jesus in their lives, and secondly only of faith and perseverance.
    We can also note about Job, how Satan accuses.

    While the saints are redeemed by the blood of the Lamb, it is their faith and confession of the blood that made them victorious over the devil.
    Rev 12 though does NOT speak of a saint's individual overcoming the devil, but a collective triumph, which SPECIFICALLY causes him to be thrown down. CONTEXT states this being thrown down is out of heaven.
    We don't actually need victory over the devil, for that is what He achieves. Yet He chooses to achieve this victory THROUGH us His body. This is an amazing privilege.
    I am not really sure what in my points you are saying is somehow faulty logic based on what IS stated.

  13. #103

    Re: Why is only satan bound for 1000 years?

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    Revelation 20:1-3 & 7
    When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison

    Why is it only satan who is bound and released as he is only a single fallen angle and can only be in one place at a time?
    Hi Marty, Im working my way through reading the whole thread, but wanted to give you my premil perspective on this, although I have adopted some of the reasoning of the amils in regards to Satan.

    During the MK, some of the nations are rebelling against God, while they are punished for this such as they no longer receive rainfall, they obviously do not repent. I can supply verses if you want to see them. At the end of the 1000yrs the Lord who is longsuffering has had enough, so he gathers all the nations to attack Israel this could take a lot longer for sin to have its full outworking and so the Lord quickens up the process by using Satan, who then goes out and gathers the the rebelling nations for battle.


    What about his legion of fallen angles why are not mentioned as being bound as they are mentioned as being kicked out of heaven?
    The demons are not needed by God for did not use them for this purpose, Gods purpose for demons was more specifically against Israel, He sent serpents amongst them to torment them in their unbelief so they would look to the one God lifted up and be healed, we can see this in the first advent, and we can see this in the second advent to come, they again bite, yet this time Israel look to the one they pierced and mourn.

    We can see a bible picture of this in Num 21 where it foretells whats going to happen.

    And the people spoke against God and against Moses: “Why have you brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? For there is no food and no water, and our soul loathes this worthless bread.” So the Lord sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and many of the people of Israel died.

    Therefore the people came to Moses, and said, “We have sinned, for we have spoken against the Lord and against you; pray to the Lord that He take away the serpents from us.” So Moses prayed for the people. Then the Lord said to Moses, “Make a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole; and it shall be that everyone who is bitten, when he looks at it, shall live.” So Moses made a bronze serpent, and put it on a pole; and so it was, if a serpent had bitten anyone, when he looked at the bronze serpent, he lived.

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    Re: Why is only satan bound for 1000 years?

    Quote Originally Posted by boangry View Post
    Hi Marty, Im working my way through reading the whole thread, but wanted to give you my premil perspective on this, although I have adopted some of the reasoning of the amils in regards to Satan.

    During the MK, some of the nations are rebelling against God, while they are punished for this such as they no longer receive rainfall, they obviously do not repent. I can supply verses if you want to see them. At the end of the 1000yrs the Lord who is longsuffering has had enough, so he gathers all the nations to attack Israel this could take a lot longer for sin to have its full outworking and so the Lord quickens up the process by using Satan, who then goes out and gathers the the rebelling nations for battle.


    The demons are not needed by God for did not use them for this purpose, Gods purpose for demons was more specifically against Israel, He sent serpents amongst them to torment them in their unbelief so they would look to the one God lifted up and be healed, we can see this in the first advent, and we can see this in the second advent to come, they again bite, yet this time Israel look to the one they pierced and mourn.

    We can see a bible picture of this in Num 21 where it foretells whats going to happen.

    And the people spoke against God and against Moses: “Why have you brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? For there is no food and no water, and our soul loathes this worthless bread.” So the Lord sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and many of the people of Israel died.

    Therefore the people came to Moses, and said, “We have sinned, for we have spoken against the Lord and against you; pray to the Lord that He take away the serpents from us.” So Moses prayed for the people. Then the Lord said to Moses, “Make a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole; and it shall be that everyone who is bitten, when he looks at it, shall live.” So Moses made a bronze serpent, and put it on a pole; and so it was, if a serpent had bitten anyone, when he looked at the bronze serpent, he lived.
    Hi boangry thanks for your reply

    I use to believe in an actual thousand years but not anymore. Instead of asking how we need to Be more focused on the what and why. What is the purpose for the thousand years and does that line of thought and reasoning match the message of scripture?

    Why have a thousand year reign for it all to future apart the moment satan is released that would seam like a failed reign. I think a literal thousand year reign gives satan too much credit

    What were your scriptures for your interpretation?

    I think you confuse serpents and demons as there is no scripture that points to them being demons

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    Re: Why is only satan bound for 1000 years?

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post

    Why have a thousand year reign for it all to future apart the moment satan is released that would seam like a failed reign.
    Why have a non-literal thousand year reign for it all to fall apart the moment satan is released? That would seem like a failed reign especially with all the deceiving of the nations Satan did while "bound".

    I think a literal thousand year reign gives satan too much credit
    I think a non-literal thousand year reign gives satan too much credit since he was able to do the same evil things and deceiving he has done since he has existed.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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