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Thread: What happens to the devil at the end..

  1. #1

    What happens to the devil at the end..

    along with the wicked, as sin is brought to an end and those under its bondage meet Gods judgement?


    Ezekiel 28:11-19
    11 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. 13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. 14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. 15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. 16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. 17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. 18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. 19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

    Malachi 4:1-3
    4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. 2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. 3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

    Psalms 37:20 20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

    Psalms 68:1-3
    1 Let God arise, let his enemies be scattered: let them also that hate him flee before him.
    2 As smoke is driven away, so drive them away: as wax melteth before the fire, so let the wicked perish at the presence of God. 3 But let the righteous be glad; let them rejoice before God: yea, let them exceedingly rejoice.

    Psalms 73:27 For, lo, they that are far from thee shall perish: thou hast destroyed all them that go a whoring from thee.

    Isa 41:11-12
    11 Behold, all they that were incensed against thee shall be ashamed and confounded: they shall be as nothing; and they that strive with thee shall perish. 12 Thou shalt seek them, and shalt not find them, even them that contended with thee: they that war against thee shall be as nothing, and as a thing of nought.

    John 3:14-18
    14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

    2 Thessalonians 2:10-12
    10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

    2 Peter 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

    2 Pet 3: 9-12
    9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

    Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire

  2. #2
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    Re: What happens to the devil at the end..

    Quote Originally Posted by hobie View Post
    along with the wicked, as sin is brought to an end and those under its bondage meet Gods judgement?


    Ezekiel 28:11-19
    11 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. 13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. 14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. 15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. 16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. 17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. 18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. 19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

    Malachi 4:1-3
    4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. 2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. 3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

    Psalms 37:20 20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

    Psalms 68:1-3
    1 Let God arise, let his enemies be scattered: let them also that hate him flee before him.
    2 As smoke is driven away, so drive them away: as wax melteth before the fire, so let the wicked perish at the presence of God. 3 But let the righteous be glad; let them rejoice before God: yea, let them exceedingly rejoice.

    Psalms 73:27 For, lo, they that are far from thee shall perish: thou hast destroyed all them that go a whoring from thee.

    Isa 41:11-12
    11 Behold, all they that were incensed against thee shall be ashamed and confounded: they shall be as nothing; and they that strive with thee shall perish. 12 Thou shalt seek them, and shalt not find them, even them that contended with thee: they that war against thee shall be as nothing, and as a thing of nought.

    John 3:14-18
    14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

    2 Thessalonians 2:10-12
    10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

    2 Peter 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

    2 Pet 3: 9-12
    9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

    Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire
    Perishing has to do with removal from the earth and from human society. God has wanted a universal theocracy on earth from the beginning. And He can achieve this only by a complete removal of incorrigibles.

    We have all heard of the Lake of Fire. There were places outside of Jerusalem where apostate Hebrews offered up their children to their idols by fire. God is saying, in a sense, that those who choose to live outside of God's city, who want to indulge in paganism, will themselves, be permanently removed from God's Kingdom.

    I don't believe the wicked, including the Devil, will "perish" in the sense of annihilation from existence. Rather, the idea is of a removal of citizenship in God's Kingdom, which is essentially what death was originally intended to be--removal from God's garden.

    The "2nd Death" will also be a removal by a complete cessation of presence in God's earthly Kingdom, not by annihilation, but by a forced absence of perpetual duration. It is as an eternal exile, either away from the earth, or in some kind of quarantine on earth. A "Lake" is a confined location, and it is a specified place of removal.

    I don't believe "fire" is to be used as a literal place of torture, but rather, as a literal place of "torment." The torment is itself being removed from God's theocratic paradise on earth, as well as a sense of remorse or unhappiness. But "Fire" conveys the sense of removal in this respect, and does not mean to convey a particular instrument of torture.
    Last edited by randyk; Jun 3rd 2019 at 03:18 PM.

  3. #3
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    Re: What happens to the devil at the end..

    Why did you leave out the key verse that answers your question specifically?

    Revelation 20:10
    And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
    Some people don't mind contradicting themselves as long as they can keep disagreeing with you...

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    Re: What happens to the devil at the end..

    Quote Originally Posted by ChangedByHim View Post
    Why did you leave out the key verse that answers your question specifically?

    Revelation 20:10
    And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
    Good point. Is this person attempting to find an answer other than from Scriptures? I should hope not!

    But I think many of us are curious about the state of those who are relegated to the outer darkness, removed from God's earthly Kingdom. Though it may tease our curiosity, is it really in our interest to focus upon a place where we should *not* want to go? Why should we focus on a fate that is *not* our goal? Why should we be curious about those who did wrong, who pursue a kingdom not of God?

    Maybe this is why we are given so little on the fate of angels and men who have chosen to be wayward. Our focus should be on "what is pure, and what is lovely," right?

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    Re: What happens to the devil at the end..

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Good point. Is this person attempting to find an answer other than from Scriptures? I should hope not!

    But I think many of us are curious about the state of those who are relegated to the outer darkness, removed from God's earthly Kingdom. Though it may tease our curiosity, is it really in our interest to focus upon a place where we should *not* want to go? Why should we focus on a fate that is *not* our goal? Why should we be curious about those who did wrong, who pursue a kingdom not of God?

    Maybe this is why we are given so little on the fate of angels and men who have chosen to be wayward. Our focus should be on "what is pure, and what is lovely," right?
    Hi Randy, yes, our principle focus is to be on God, His word, and as you pointed out, on the things mentioned in verses like Philippians 4:8. That said, the Lord clearly intended that we know something about the life to come and interestingly, I believe there is actually more that is written about the fate/eternity of the wicked who are outside of Christ (in the OT/NT) than there is about the age to come for believers.

    ~Deuteronomy
    p.s. - I think knowing about Hell/the Lake of Fire is not only meant as a warning to unbelievers, but as an admonishment/reminder for those of us who believe to double our efforts in bringing the Gospel to bear in the lives of those who so desperately need to hear and believe it.

    "If sinners be damned, at least let them leap to Hell over our bodies. If they perish, let them perish with our arms about their knees. Let no one go unwarned and unprayed for. ~Charles Haddon Spurgeon
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Matthew 5
    16 Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.


    Matthew 7
    12 However you want people to treat you, so treat them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.


    1 Corinthians 13
    1 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.

    1 Peter 3
    15 Sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence.


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    Re: What happens to the devil at the end..

    In Matthew 25:41 we learn; "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels". The Lake of Fire is used interchangeably with "Gehenna", "destruction" and "perdition" and "the Second Death" (Matt.10:28; Rev.20:14, etc.). If we study the Greek word that our eminent Translators have rendered "Perdition" we will find that it means "exquisite lack of well-being" (Vine). It does not have the connotation of annihilation but of continuing in a state of extreme suffering both the body and soul. An example of this would be a man who, at the same time, is being eaten by cancer and having continuous kidney stones while he is in the process of both a divorce and bankruptcy while watching his child die. Our Lord Jesus suffered this on that fateful Passover. In Gethsemane He cried that His soul was "sorrowful unto death", and while this sorrow continued throughout the day until He cried; "Father, why have you forsaken me", He suffered the most horrible of physical deaths' over six hours. That is, EXTREME perdition of both body and soul.

    As there is no salvation for the Devil, his portion is, after the battle of Magog, to experience EXTREME perdition FOREVER. That is, he will be alive, he will be in sight of men (Isa.66:24), and, since an angel cannot die (Lk.20.36), he will squirm and bellow in agony forever (Rev.20:10). Isaiah 14 prophesies this in verses 12-16:

    12 "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
    13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
    14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
    15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
    16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms."


    Verses 12 to 14 show the reason for his fate and specifically him being cast out of heaven for the last 3 years of this age (Lk.10:18; Rev.12:8-9)
    Verse 15 shows his subterranean imprisonment during the Millennial Kingdom of Christ (Rev.20.1-3)
    Verse 16 shows him in perdition in view of men for eternity future (Isa.66:24)

  7. #7

    Re: What happens to the devil at the end..

    I believe the devil and all of his spiritual children will suffer before the judgment seat of Christ and then be no more.

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    Re: What happens to the devil at the end..

    Quote Originally Posted by journeyman View Post
    I believe the devil and all of his spiritual children will suffer before the judgment seat of Christ and then be no more.
    It is an understandable and common belief that the evil of the ages meet some sort of fate that obliterates them. This is usually caused by the notion that at some point utopia will be instated by God and that all offending things are removed. But the fate of all things, animate and inanimate, must align with God's character. If a man is obedient and righteous, and suffers for this, as Christ did, or, as the prophets did, he/she receives a rewards that no man can remove. To remove this reward would be unjust. Likewise, those who have made it their goal to thwart the purposes of the Almighty, and to cause injury to His councils, will suffer just deserts. God's Words to this effect are found in Exodus 34:6-7 among others:

    6 "And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,
    7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation*."


    In verse 7 God Himself declares that He will not "clear" the guilty. To annihilate a guilty party is to relieve them of their just deserts. If the threat of God is that His enemies suffer "for ever", we can all be sure He means "for ever".


    * Just in case this causes a question, the "visiting of the iniquity of a father upon his children" must be explained. It is not that they will pay for their father's sins, for that is not just. It is that the consequences of the father's sins will follow them. If a man is born and raised in Cambodia, but uses the opportunity to immigrate to the USA, the rest of his life, the lives of his children, and the lives of the children's children will be influenced by this decision. They will be born in the USA, have its citizenship and enjoy the advantages of the USA and suffer the disadvantages of the USA, without having asked for them. The father's decisions always affect his children.

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    Re: What happens to the devil at the end..

    Quote Originally Posted by journeyman View Post
    I believe the devil and all of his spiritual children will suffer before the judgment seat of Christ and then be no more.
    Hi Journeyman, I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Are you saying that God will torture demons and unbelievers at the Judgment (before the Great White Throne), and then eliminate their existence altogether, or do you mean something else?

    Also, where does the Bible tell us that things will happen the way that you are describing them?

    Thanks!

    ~Deut
    Matthew 5
    16 Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.


    Matthew 7
    12 However you want people to treat you, so treat them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.


    1 Corinthians 13
    1 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.

    1 Peter 3
    15 Sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence.


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    Re: What happens to the devil at the end..

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuteronomy Skaggs View Post
    Hi Randy, yes, our principle focus is to be on God, His word, and as you pointed out, on the things mentioned in verses like Philippians 4:8. That said, the Lord clearly intended that we know something about the life to come and interestingly, I believe there is actually more that is written about the fate/eternity of the wicked who are outside of Christ (in the OT/NT) than there is about the age to come for believers.

    ~Deuteronomy
    p.s. - I think knowing about Hell/the Lake of Fire is not only meant as a warning to unbelievers, but as an admonishment/reminder for those of us who believe to double our efforts in bringing the Gospel to bear in the lives of those who so desperately need to hear and believe it.

    "If sinners be damned, at least let them leap to Hell over our bodies. If they perish, let them perish with our arms about their knees. Let no one go unwarned and unprayed for. ~Charles Haddon Spurgeon
    Good point. Hell is a reality. I was discussing the Genesis story with my brother today. We are considering why God designed Genesis to begin with the Creation Account as it is? My thought is that God designed Man for a habitat upon the earth, surrounded by seas, so that he would have an eternal place to fellowship with God and with one another. There was no intention to throw people into Hell.

    But the 1st thing God made, before the land, was the water that afterwards formed the Seas. This was a place we weren't intended to live. Hell is a place where we shouldn't want to live. And now that Man has sinned, we need to be warned that the land was created only for the righteous. If we do not choose the righteousness of Christ, we will be burned and removed from the earth. And our eternity will be spent in the "outer darkness." Thankyou. It needs to be said!

    The water that formed the seas can be a Flood to destroy Man from the earth, or it can be purifying waters flowing from Christ to the repentant soul. We need to find the River of Life, where we can easily access the Tree of Life.

  11. #11

    Re: What happens to the devil at the end..

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    It is an understandable and common belief that the evil of the ages meet some sort of fate that obliterates them. This is usually caused by the notion that at some point utopia will be instated by God and that all offending things are removed.
    All offending things are being removed from God's Kingdom, because we were once an offense to God. It's not a fate evil will eventually meet. It's God. And no evil will survive that meeting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    But the fate of all things, animate and inanimate, must align with God's character.
    It's precisely this reason that evil cannot exist eternally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    If a man is obedient and righteous, and suffers for this, as Christ did, or, as the prophets did, he/she receives a rewards that no man can remove. To remove this reward would be unjust. Likewise, those who have made it their goal to thwart the purposes of the Almighty, and to cause injury to His councils, will suffer just deserts. God's Words to this effect are found in Exodus 34:6-7 among others:

    6 "And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,
    7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation*."


    In verse 7 God Himself declares that He will not "clear" the guilty. To annihilate a guilty party is to relieve them of their just deserts. If the threat of God is that His enemies suffer "for ever", we can all be sure He means "for ever".
    The suffering of "forever" pertains to the the wrongdoing of the "forever" committed in this world, which isn't eternal.
    Even in this world, capital punishment isn't clearing the guilty. It's the ultimate penalty for criminal behavior.


    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    * Just in case this causes a question, the "visiting of the iniquity of a father upon his children" must be explained. It is not that they will pay for their father's sins, for that is not just.
    Perfectly said and exactly why the sacrifice of Jesus has been distorted by theologians beyond all Godly reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    It is that the consequences of the father's sins will follow them. If a man is born and raised in Cambodia, but uses the opportunity to immigrate to the USA, the rest of his life, the lives of his children, and the lives of the children's children will be influenced by this decision. They will be born in the USA, have its citizenship and enjoy the advantages of the USA and suffer the disadvantages of the USA, without having asked for them. The father's decisions always affect his children.
    Like nailing God to a cross.

  12. #12

    Re: What happens to the devil at the end..

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuteronomy Skaggs View Post
    Hi Journeyman, I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Are you saying that God will torture demons and unbelievers at the Judgment (before the Great White Throne), and then eliminate their existence altogether, or do you mean something else?

    Also, where does the Bible tell us that things will happen the way that you are describing them?

    Thanks!

    ~Deut
    Yes brother, all unrepentant sinners will be tormented in the presence of Jesus as their sins are exposed one by one,

    For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known. Lk.12:2

    It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God Heb.10:31

    Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men 2Cor.5:11

    This terror is the result of facing the truth. It doesn't go on eternally.

    People don't appreciate life. They're not thankful for every second God gives them. They don't realize the gift it truly is, or do most people every really know it, but they will at the judgment seat of Christ when they see the truth of God.

    At that time, those who thought of themselves as mighty will be exposed as the cowards they really were.

    We can discuss this further, but it will lead to no agreement unless you're willing to consider that "forever and ever" can describe the totality of an individual's existence, which doesn't mean that person is eternal like God.

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    Re: What happens to the devil at the end..

    Quote Originally Posted by journeyman View Post
    All offending things are being removed from God's Kingdom, because we were once an offense to God. It's not a fate evil will eventually meet. It's God. And no evil will survive that meeting.


    It's precisely this reason that evil cannot exist eternally.
    But we do not dicuss evil. We discuss punishment - retribution. Sure, evil put away, but the theme of the thread is What happens to the Devil. But maybe we could discuss in a more efficient way if you posted verses for your belief.

    The suffering of "forever" pertains to the the wrongdoing of the "forever" committed in this world, which isn't eternal.
    Even in this world, capital punishment isn't clearing the guilty. It's the ultimate penalty for criminal behavior.
    I'm sorry. I do not understand your idea. I'll have to pass. Please forgive me.

    Like nailing God to a cross.
    Again, I do not understand your response.

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    Re: What happens to the devil at the end..

    Quote Originally Posted by journeyman View Post
    Yes brother, all unrepentant sinners will be tormented in the presence of Jesus as their sins are exposed one by one,

    ....

    We can discuss this further, but it will lead to no agreement unless you're willing to consider that "forever and ever" can describe the totality of an individual's existence, which doesn't mean that person is eternal like God.
    In Revelation 20:10 we read; "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever." The language is plain. The use of "day and night" indicates the TIME of light and the TIME of darkness. And the last phrase "for ever and ever", if rendered literally, means, "into the perpetuity of age upon age". The word "Eternal" means "without beginning and without end". That word is not used here because the "torment" has a beginning. But because it has no end, the phrase "into the perpetuity of age upon age" is used to show that no matter how many ages there are, the torment will be perpetuated into that age.

    That there are multiple ages still to come is shown in Ephesians 2:7; "That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus." This is addressed to believers and shows that it will take a number of ages to show the richness of the grace that we have received in Christ. So also, the torment of the Devil will stand as an everlasting (not "Eternal") monument to God's justice.

  15. #15
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    Re: What happens to the devil at the end..

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    That there are multiple ages still to come is shown in Ephesians 2:7; "That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus." This is addressed to believers and shows that it will take a number of ages to show the richness of the grace that we have received in Christ. So also, the torment of the Devil will stand as an everlasting (not "Eternal") monument to God's justice.
    Hi Walls, very nice post above to Journeyman .If you don't mind however, I have a couple of questions.

    Ephesians 2:7 talks about "ages" to come, but other verses, like Ephesians 1:21/Matthew 12:32, talk about this age, and the "age" [singular] to come. Is there a difference, or do you think that they basically mean the same thing? Also, if "ages" is correct for the eternity to come (instead of "age"), is there anything in the Bible that tells us what those future "ages" might be?

    Finally, you said "everlasting .. not Eternal" above. What is the difference between the two?

    Thanks!

    ~Deut
    Matthew 5
    16 Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.


    Matthew 7
    12 However you want people to treat you, so treat them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.


    1 Corinthians 13
    1 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.

    1 Peter 3
    15 Sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence.


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