Page 4 of 10 FirstFirst 12345678910 LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 148

Thread: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

  1. #46
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Pacific NW, USA
    Posts
    10,687

    Re: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Just one when I congratulated myself for having figured it out, you came and threw a spanner into the works! I respect your comments for I know you're not one to say the first thing that comes into your head. But by and by, it proves that Dan 7:24 is not as simple as many have believed. I suppose it calls for further study with prayers for discernment as well.
    When I see something unusual like the "3 kings are defeated" prophecy, I normally look for verification. I believe much prophetic revelation is verified by previous revelations.

    But in some circumstances, there are "firsts" in prophecy. In other words, the prophecy is coming directly from the mouth of God without any prior revelation to back it up. It may be the first and the last time biblical prophecy addresses this particular point.

    If so, we can only accept it along with the rest of the prophecies of Daniel, which are indeed very credible. We do not need to understand the totality of it, in fine detail, if the central idea is established. And that is, there will be opposition to Antichrist's usurpation of the 10 horned confederacy.

    This, I think, may be important, because Armageddon itself may represent a conflict, with forces opposed to Antichrist. In other words, this isn't just God coming down from heaven with the nuclear blast from His mouth. God may be directing events on earth, having Man destroy Man, in the effort to annihilate Antichrist's whole mission.

  2. #47
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    7,817
    Blog Entries
    13

    Re: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    Yes, that takes me back to my earlier understanding, because the Little Horn is DIVERSE from the First Roman Beast.

    My earlier understanding was that there are 10 Kings/Powers that give their Power unto the Beast, but he subdues three who understand who he is and tries to back out of the agreement. He no doubts replaces them with another leader etc. etc., just because John is not given the details means nothing. Daniel is not given the False Prophet, John is given the False Prophet, God has his reasons. My thinking on that is the Jews would have been trying to kill High Priests for the next 500 or so years had Daniel been given the False Prophet angle, I think the False Prophet is a High Priest like unto Jason {under Antiochus}. So God has His reasons, just because he doesn't mention it to John means very little in my eyes.

    In Prophecy we always have to double check before we go forth, or triple check.....so it's just part of progression.

    As per who they are, they will be Three Kings who try to back out of the agreement they made with the Anti-Christ.
    Your remarks above seem logical but without scriptural proof, it, unfortunately, remains a conjecture. How do you respond to post #33?

  3. #48
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    7,817
    Blog Entries
    13

    Re: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Likewise I see why most think that sense it says horns that it most be three of the ten. But again, it cant be three of the ten as all ten are in tact and none appear subdued upon the time of the 2nd coming.

    Note Daniel does clarify that three "kings" are subdued. So Daniel is one verse says three horns but in another says three kings...…. So we know the ten horns are ten kings thus why can't the three kings (lion, bear, leopard) be horns as well?

    24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.


    Thus the three subdued must be the Lion, bear, Leopard.

    1. All 10 horns intact at the second coming.
    2. Daniel does state also three kings are subdued.
    3. Daniel does mention the three beasts having power taken away which would allude to being subdued.
    4.. The Lion, Bear, Leopard are the only set of three mentioned which could be the three subdued.
    5. And it does make sense the 4th beast would subdue those before him and not part of himself.
    Ross, the pertinent connection that your position has refused to address is this:

    Dan 7:20 and about the ten horns that were on its head, and the other horn [the 11th] that came up and before which three of them fell, the horn that had eyes and a mouth that spoke great things, and that seemed greater than its companions

    There is a direct connection between the AC and the 3 kings that were subdued. So I'm not sure how you hope to connect the timeline from when the Lion, Bear and Leopard fell to the coming of the AC which we are told is the time the 3 will be subdued? You might have a good case if you can explain how this fits your view rather than ignoring it.

  4. #49
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    4,877
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Ross, the pertinent connection that your position has refused to address is this:

    Dan 7:20 and about the ten horns that were on its head, and the other horn [the 11th] that came up and before which three of them fell, the horn that had eyes and a mouth that spoke great things, and that seemed greater than its companions

    There is a direct connection between the AC and the 3 kings that were subdued. So I'm not sure how you hope to connect the timeline from when the Lion, Bear and Leopard fell to the coming of the AC which we are told is the time the 3 will be subdued? You might have a good case if you can explain how this fits your view rather than ignoring it.
    Rev 13 is this 4th beast of Dan 7 rising up. Rev 13 is future and notice the Lion, Bear, Leopard are rising up but not by themselves but now are part of this 4th beast as they have been subdued. The second beast is the man AC little horn.

  5. #50
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    7,817
    Blog Entries
    13

    Re: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

    Quote Originally Posted by henrychills View Post
    It took me 25 years of prayerful study. The Holy spirit has His way of leading us to truth. And His own timing.
    I agree that the Holy Spirit is the ultimate teacher and revealer of truth; only I'm not convinced in this case that the H.S. has a hand in your rendition of the prophecy because you couldn't be further from the truth.

    Quote Originally Posted by henrychills View Post
    However, They do align with the partial fulfillment when the papal allies toppled three kings from the Western Roman Empire when the portion of the Roman Empire that contained the city state of Rome was carved up
    I think you are fixated with a fable centred around the Vatican and American politics as the answer to the prophecy. However, I don't see how it relates since Dan 7:20 connects the fall of the 3 kings to the time of the Antichrist.

    Quote Originally Posted by henrychills View Post
    In the endtime, the lion links to President Reagan; bear, Bush I; leopard, Clinton. But a study of Daniel 7:11-12 is needed to establish that.
    Are you really serious about this? I dismay to think you are even half serious.

    Quote Originally Posted by henrychills View Post
    Daniel 7 focused on the sea-beasts: Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and Rome. When the interpretation 7:17 moved from Rome to the 4 kings that arise from the earth; the prophecy moved from Europe (around Rome) to the USA.

    Here is what happened: In Revelation 13 the first sea-beast is religio-Roman. The second best is from the earth. Sea and earth are different. An identifying features of the second beast is that he calls fire down from heaven. President Truman did that upon Japan in WWII.

    Since the second beast (R 13:11-18) is identified by its ability to call fire down from the sky, let's say that that preliminary evidence proves it to be the US. Based on that unscientific "hunch" go back to the prophecy in Daniel 7.

    After the papacy (the prophecy took us all the way to Rome) held sway for a time, times, and half a time (1260 years) from 538 AD to 1798, the French took the pope prisoner in 1798. Thus, the prophecy that brought us from Babylon, to Medo-Persia, to Greece, and to Rome reaches a place where the prophecy is to transition to the 4 earth kings.

    In 1798 France took Pope Pius VI captive and in 1805, France sold the Louisiana Purchase/Territory (sparsely populated PROPHETIC EARTH) to the united States. It doubled the size of the USA and President Truman, the man who called fire down from the sky came from Missouri (right in the heart of the prophetic earth/Louisiana Territory). [that is the summarized version, I am going to give a more detailed Bible study on this in another Prophecy thread, prophecy: who's fooling who].

    NOTE the harmony between Daniel 7 and Revelation 13. They both start with sea-beasts and transition to earth beasts. In Revelation 13:1-10 the sea-beast is the post 1929 to 2013 papacy (a prophetic hour of 83 years 4 months based on 1/12 of a 1000-year day is allotted to it). The 7 heads on this sea-beast are the popes that had their kingdom (that had been taken away in 1798) restored to them in 1929; Pius XI & XII, John XXIII, Paul VI, John-Paul I & II, & Benedict XVI. The ten horns that bonded with these popes during this hour are earth-kings/American: Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush I, & Clinton. During the reign of pope Benedict XVI Rev. 13 transitioned to Bush II...That is a fascinating prophecy that I will also cover in Who's fooling Who.

    Bottom line America is now the focus of Daniel 7 and Revelation 13. The last 4 kings/Presidents identified in these prophecies are Bush II, Obama, Trump, and Pence.
    Your patriotism and America's place in the world stage is admirable. But unfortunately, human politics is not the same as God's divine plans revealed through prophecy. You are not the first American to force the USA into scripture when that is uncalled for. Among your numerous mistakes is that claim a fire from heaven is synonymous with a bomb dropped by plane as claimed that Harry Truman fulfilled that in WWII.

    It's obvious you have a proclivity of replacing some scriptural messages with a fantasy. For example, even baby Christians recognise that the 2nd Beast of Rev 13:11-18 is the False Prophet. Yet despite professing 25 years of study, you still believe it is the US?

    Furthermore, there's no such thing as "sea beasts" and "earth beasts" in Dan 7 and Rev 13. The prophecy has 10 kings/horns and another (11th) said to be different from the others, yet by your account, the US presidents you've introduced into the fray has reached 15 - from Truman to Trump/Pence!

    Quote Originally Posted by henrychills View Post
    At one time I could only follow the prophecies to Bush II. Then came Obama. Then I prayerfully studied until I found him. Then came Trump. Then I had to go back to more prayer and Bible Study. Trump was there along with the little time of trouble that is to be followed by the Time of Jacob's Trouble (that many Christians think that they will be raptured away from) and Michael Pence will be there standing for his people.

    If I am wrong, I may have to look for a receipt for crow.
    God's people will have some things to unlearn and some things to learn again to get ready to meet Jesus.

  6. #51
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    7,817
    Blog Entries
    13

    Re: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberseeker View Post
    Here is Jerome's (347-420 AD) account:




    Within a few centuries of Jerome 3 former provinces of the original Roman Empire fell to an upstart Islamic Caliphate, and 7 remained intact.



    Of course Jerome and "all the commentators of the Christian Church" were expecting Antichrist and the end of the world to follow straight afterwards. And, indeed, Islam WAS antichrist. But here is where we need to understand the way prophecy fulfills. There are numerous examples where prophecy fulfills in part, then fulfills later in completeness. So I believe, as some here do, that a European confederation may lend its support to the last manifestation of Antichrist. (Revelation 17:12)

    However, the '3 fallen horns' of Daniel are past as I have shown. And the leader of a resurgent caliphate will be (IMO) the Antichrist. So, the original historical fulfillment provides us with the information for modern end-timers (us) to use to construct a likely end time scenario.
    The Bible is consistent that the Antichrist [singular] will be a man. So Islam doesn't fit. Sorry.

  7. #52
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    7,817
    Blog Entries
    13

    Re: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Yes, that was an interesting approach, and I considered it. However, the translations say that the 3 kings are from among the 10 kings. And this would seem to exclude this perspective?

    I do see it as possible that 3 kings within the European Community may resist centralization, such as the people of the UK are resisting it now. It appears to be futile to pursue independence from the E.U.? And it's not that I was ever opposed to European unity--I just think that unity apart from Christianity can be very dangerous. Right?

    So I continue to view the 3 kings, who are put down by Antichrist, as 3 strong members of the current European Union. Who they are I couldn't say. Whether I'm right I can't say. At this point we're all kind of shooting in the dark.
    Yes, we are all indeed shooting in the dark at best. But what is relative is whether the 3 subdued kings belong in the past (Lion, Bear and Leopard) or in the future as in the time of the AC? If we can work this out without identifying who the kings are, that would be wonderful.

  8. #53
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Oklahoma - USA
    Posts
    542

    Cool Re: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Yes, that was an interesting approach, and I considered it. However, the translations say that the 3 kings are from among the 10 kings. And this would seem to exclude this perspective?

    I do see it as possible that 3 kings within the European Community may resist centralization, such as the people of the UK are resisting it now. It appears to be futile to pursue independence from the E.U.? And it's not that I was ever opposed to European unity--I just think that unity apart from Christianity can be very dangerous. Right?

    So I continue to view the 3 kings, who are put down by Antichrist, as 3 strong members of the current European Union. Who they are I couldn't say. Whether I'm right I can't say. At this point we're all kind of shooting in the dark.
    Randyk, I believe you are in the ballpark with this post. If the EU begins to embrace the RCC, you can be sure the UK will withdraw. The following is an excerpt from my second book:

    Since the end of World War II, the popes had called for settling political differences through faith, with their Church at the center. The most powerful statement came from Pope Paul VI on October 18, 1975. He was addressing the Third Symposium of Bishops of Europe in Rome. Present were more than 100 bishops, cardinals, and prelates from 24 different European countries. He stated. “Can it not be said that it is faith, the Christian faith, the Catholic faith that made Europe…?” And he continued. “And it is there that our mission as bishops in Europe can render the service that is confided to us, promoters of the faith, to reawaken Europe’s Christian soul, where unity is rooted.”

    Pope Paul VI also called the Catholic faith “the secret to Europe’s identity.” Pope John Paul II had often stated he had a literal calling from God for unifying Europe.

    Political leaders had also echoed the same sentiment: Dr. Otto van Habsburg, the eldest son of the last Austro-Hungarian Emperor, has stated he saw a relation of the Holy Roman Empire and his view of the coming “United States of Europe.” Dr. Habsburg saw a strong religious role for any future united Europe. He advocated that the Roman Catholic Church should be central to that theme. He stated. “The cross doesn’t need Europe, but Europe needs the cross.”

    Other political figures had expressed the same sentiment. It seemed inevitable that any united Europe would include some participation of the Roman Catholic Church. The coming Renovatio imperii Romanorum, restoration of the Roman Empire, would astound the world!
    John 15:17 "These things I command you, that ye love one another."

  9. #54
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    near Chattanooga
    Posts
    193

    Re: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

    The wonderful thing about truth, is that it is true.
    In God's time, He will have prophecy fulfilled as He has ordained.

    The sad thing about truth is that it is not cherished and searched for with all the heart.
    There are those who find a partial truth and believe that they have arrived.
    And the devil is oh so happy to have the clock run down.

    The three kings have been subdued in America
    and America is getting ready to topple the third king in the former Eastern Roman Empire (Iran)
    But the final events will be rapid ones.
    If it were not for the grace of God, the very elect would be deceived.

  10. #55
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    2,800
    Blog Entries
    5

    Re: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    The Bible is consistent that the Antichrist [singular] will be a man. So Islam doesn't fit. Sorry.
    I said the leader of a resurgent caliphate. Also, we are told that there have always been Antichrists. Also, there are such thing as Antichrist Empires, otherwise known as 'Beasts.' So it is reasonable, don't you think, that in the last days an evil system will be personified in the form of a man.
    "Your name and renown
    is the desire of our hearts."
    (Isaiah 26:8)

  11. #56
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Pacific NW, USA
    Posts
    10,687

    Re: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

    Quote Originally Posted by Deade View Post
    Randyk, I believe you are in the ballpark with this post. If the EU begins to embrace the RCC, you can be sure the UK will withdraw. The following is an excerpt from my second book:
    Very insightful post! This is where my views are. I don't know how anti-Catholic you are, but my view is that the RCC is more a human organization than a God-ordered organization. The Spirit of God has largely been replaced by the human spirit.

    And we can see that as Christian doctrines are put forward at the same time as they are being compromised. All the talk against abortion and homosexuality, at the same time that clergy sex is covered up, and appeals are made for European unity? If Europe is to be embraced, gay people must be accepted, and Moslems must be accepted, along with a host of nonChristian philosophical perspectives. How is this of the Christian spirit?

    But I believe there are many genuine Christians in the RCC. In time, though, the wish to unite Europe must come through compromising more of God's Spirit for the fallen, human spirit, embracing all kinds of corrupt lifestyles.

    And yes, Christianity has been the glue holding European nations together. But as true spiritual Christianity fades from Europe, what kind of Christianity will replace it? The RCC, in my opinion, has been preparing to capitulate to Islam and to humanism, with all of its corrupt lifestyles. We'll see.

  12. #57
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    4,877
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    But what is relative is whether the 3 subdued kings belong in the past (Lion, Bear and Leopard) or in the future as in the time of the AC? If we can work this out without identifying who the kings are, that would be wonderful.
    The Lion, Bear, Leopard (and beast) are future...

    1. The are given animal names as they are no know country.
    2. The four in Dan 2 or not the same four in Dan 7.
    3. There is not a thousand of years between a third past kingdom (supposed leopard) and then the 4th future kingdom (beast) Rev 13.
    4. In reality, the four horseman the first four seals are these four beasts (kings) which rise up from the sea and are still future.

  13. #58
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    7,817
    Blog Entries
    13

    Re: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberseeker View Post
    I said the leader of a resurgent caliphate. Also, we are told that there have always been Antichrists. Also, there are such thing as Antichrist Empires, otherwise known as 'Beasts.' So it is reasonable, don't you think, that in the last days an evil system will be personified in the form of a man.
    I know that the scripture didn't provide a specific clue of where the end-time antichrist will come from. He may come from Europe or the Arab nations, so Muslim caliphate leaders as the Antichrist is borderline conjecture.

  14. #59
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    7,817
    Blog Entries
    13

    Re: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    The Lion, Bear, Leopard (and beast) are future...

    1. The are given animal names as they are no know country.
    2. The four in Dan 2 or not the same four in Dan 7.
    3. There is not a thousand of years between a third past kingdom (supposed leopard) and then the 4th future kingdom (beast) Rev 13.
    4. In reality, the four horseman the first four seals are these four beasts (kings) which rise up from the sea and are still future.
    You started out with something plausible, but since your position was challenged your response has gone from bad to worse. "The four horseman the first four seals are these four beasts (kings) which rise up from the sea and are still future"??? See what I mean?

  15. #60
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    4,877
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: The subdued 3 Kings of Dan 7

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    You started out with something plausible, but since your position was challenged your response has gone from bad to worse. "The four horseman the first four seals are these four beasts (kings) which rise up from the sea and are still future"??? See what I mean?
    No I don't...…why can't the four horseman (kings) represent the four beast (kings)?????

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Discussion 1 Kings 11
    By matthewhenry in forum Bible Chat
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: Sep 27th 2015, 07:09 PM
  2. Replies: 4
    Last Post: Oct 8th 2014, 03:22 PM
  3. Is The WEU The Ten Kings?
    By Ranting in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 65
    Last Post: Jun 24th 2014, 08:03 PM
  4. 10 Kings
    By Saved7 in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: Jul 25th 2011, 09:37 PM
  5. Three kings subdued
    By Beckrl in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: Jul 23rd 2010, 11:09 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •