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  1. #31
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    Re: Question

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    Don’t you think that the beast dying and coming back to life is giving Satan the same power as God as only God can raise the dead and has power over death?
    No one has the power to resurrect except God. Since all men will be resurrected (1st Cor.15:22), all that the Beast is allowed by God is to be resurrected out of the normal time. Notice the grammar of Daniel 7:25; "And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time." Neither the Beast nor Satan can change things that God has ordained. Nero should be raised at the White Throne when "the rest of the dead" are raised. To be raised at the end of this age, a thousand years early, it must be "given" him by God.

    The rule of the earth is given to mankind (Gen.1:26-28). Either a man supported by an angel, Lucifer, or a Man supported by God, Jesus Christ, will have rule over the whole earth. God has designated Jesus as this Man, but men refuse Him. Men, in their fallenness and resulting perfidy want a man like them - one who will offer them the depravity they love. God gives them this man. He is not a "Beast" for nothing. For this man to be credible he must be (i) a king, (ii) a risen king, and (iii) a king who does miracles. Only in this way will he seem to fulfill Israel's prophets. Because men want what they want, and not what He wants, God gives it to them. Israel wanted flesh so God rained quail upon them. Israel wanted a king other than God, so they get human and fallen kings who led them astray. Israel, when faced with the choice of Jesus or Caesar, cried; "We have no king but Caesar!" (John 19:15). So they get their Caesar - Nero, a Roman resurrected from the dead.

  2. #32
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    Re: Question

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    Yes I don’t believe another temple will be built built either but if the Jews do build one it won’t be Gods temple
    That's the main thing, in my opinion. All of the times God had a temple built, it was built with prophecy, and great regalia--with pomp and ceremony, or with great attention to detail. Solomon's temple had lots of Scripture devoted to it. Moses' tabernacle had lots of Scripture devoted to it. The restoration temple in Nehemiah and Ezra's time had lots of Scripture devoted to it.

    Where do we see much Scripture devoted to an endtimes temple? We don't! And that's for a very good reason. There will be no more temples based on the Law of Moses. The Law was fulfilled in the works of Christ.

    The old temple was patterned after God's heavenly temple, which means that God's heavenly temple is greater. The old temple was just a "shadow." So why do we emphasize the "shadow," rather than the reality?

    We shouldn't. If Antichrist situates himself in a temple of God, it is not really God's temple at all. And it is certainly not a restored temple of animal sacrifices (that God sanctions). This has to be a place where Antichrist *fashions himself a deity,* rather than usurp God's actual place of Deity!

  3. #33
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    Re: Question

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    That's the main thing, in my opinion. All of the times God had a temple built, it was built with prophecy, and great regalia--with pomp and ceremony, or with great attention to detail.

    If Antichrist situates himself in a temple of God, it is not really God's temple at all.
    Rev 17 shows us the culmination of the abomination which shall cause desolation. Here we see the beast set up in the sanctuary/temple fornicating with the woman (the woman being the same as in Rev 12) whom was to be God's wife but is a whore. The man beast is arrayed in scarlet like king Jesus, the woman (the holy city) arrayed in blue and scarlet linen from the people as in times past. The woman is also decked with GOLD and JEWELS and gold cup showing a victory over it's enemies. What more, regalia, pomp, and ceremony do you need?

    3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
    4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
    5 And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.
    6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

    John wondered and marveled at this site...why? For if John did not know better he is seeing God himself and the Bride, shaking his head saying this can't be wow what a delusion to behold.

    Matt 24
    15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

    11 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
    2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

    It is time to see the deception which shall befall the world. We can't stop it but we can help.....

    Dan 11
    33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.

  4. #34
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    Re: Question

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    The beast does not die and then come back to life. What is written is one of the heads/mountains of this beast/empire received a wound that would have been deadly but was healed before it died. It's only part of the beast that is wounded and that one part did not die and come back to life. It was wounded and healed and it's all concerning a mountain not a person. Always stick to the actual text!

    Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
    Yes this is what I am saying I agree

  5. #35
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    Re: Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    It would depend on your understanding of Revelation 13:6. "And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven." The Greek is "Skčnč", an interesting choice. Moses made the Tabernacle after the pattern of the heavenly Tabernacle, so we have to choose which "Tabernacle" is meant in this verse. Does John speak of an earthly "Habitation" or the heavenly? The choice is easy as far as I can see. The root for "Skčnč" is "cloth", which a tent is made of. The Tabernacle of the Wilderness was made from cloth to make it moveable. The Tabernacle of heaven is permanent. So although the next phrase addresses heaven, I judge the Tabernacle of Revelation 13:6 to be the earthly "habitation". The Tabernacle of the Wilderness, and both the "Tabernacle" of Solomon and Zerubbabel, proved to be "re-moveable". They were all destroyed. The Temple, or "habitation" that the Beast desecrates will also be "re-moved", most probably by the earthquake the hits Jerusalem (Rev.11.13). Emmanuel - Jesus Christ, will not ever enter this Temple. His "Habitation" when He returns will be the Temple of Ezekiel.

    As to why the word for "Temple" is not used in this respect in the Book of Revelation, I cannot speak for God for He alone chooses His Words. But if Daniel, Matthew and Paul had already established it, I would not repeat it. The Book of Revelation is built on the rest of the Bible. Those who study Revelation without a good knowledge of the rest of the Bible will be hard pressed to understand it.
    I agree to understand revelation you need the other books of the bible but that adds to my point about the temple not being mentioned as being desecrated in revelation

  6. #36
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    Re: Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    When our Lord Jesus returns He will physically live somewhere. Since He is Emmanuel - "God with us", His habitation will be the "House of God". I dare say that this "Habitation" is a vital part of the picture. For extremely important reasons, our Lord Jesus could not live in any Temple yet made by Israel. His death and resurrection changed things forever. Ezekiel's Temple reflects these changes.

    The Beast, to be taken seriously as a deity, must live in a Temple. But he is restricted because Israel live in the Old Testament since they still wait for their Messiah. Thus, the Temple that the Beast desecrates will not reflect the changes that our Lord Jesus' Work did. Matthew 24:15 says that the Beast will occupy the "Holy Place". If we take the understanding of Hebrews that this is the Holy of Holies (Heb.9:12, 25), one can immediately see that it is an Old Testament effigy. Christ's death caused God to rent the Veil and so the Holy of Holies under Christ's regime will include the preceding room with the Shewbread Altar, Lampstand and the Altar of Incense. Ezekiel's Temple reflects these changes whiles any Temple built by Israel will not. So the Beast will occupy an out-of-date Temple.
    But Revelation does say that there won't be any temple in the NJ

    I see Matthew 24 as happening in the first century with the old temple

  7. #37
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    Re: Question

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    That's the main thing, in my opinion. All of the times God had a temple built, it was built with prophecy, and great regalia--with pomp and ceremony, or with great attention to detail. Solomon's temple had lots of Scripture devoted to it. Moses' tabernacle had lots of Scripture devoted to it. The restoration temple in Nehemiah and Ezra's time had lots of Scripture devoted to it.

    Where do we see much Scripture devoted to an endtimes temple? We don't! And that's for a very good reason. There will be no more temples based on the Law of Moses. The Law was fulfilled in the works of Christ.

    The old temple was patterned after God's heavenly temple, which means that God's heavenly temple is greater. The old temple was just a "shadow." So why do we emphasize the "shadow," rather than the reality?

    We shouldn't. If Antichrist situates himself in a temple of God, it is not really God's temple at all. And it is certainly not a restored temple of animal sacrifices (that God sanctions). This has to be a place where Antichrist *fashions himself a deity,* rather than usurp God's actual place of Deity!
    Yes agreed thanks

  8. #38
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    Re: Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    No one has the power to resurrect except God. Since all men will be resurrected (1st Cor.15:22), all that the Beast is allowed by God is to be resurrected out of the normal time. Notice the grammar of Daniel 7:25; "And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time." Neither the Beast nor Satan can change things that God has ordained. Nero should be raised at the White Throne when "the rest of the dead" are raised. To be raised at the end of this age, a thousand years early, it must be "given" him by God.

    The rule of the earth is given to mankind (Gen.1:26-28). Either a man supported by an angel, Lucifer, or a Man supported by God, Jesus Christ, will have rule over the whole earth. God has designated Jesus as this Man, but men refuse Him. Men, in their fallenness and resulting perfidy want a man like them - one who will offer them the depravity they love. God gives them this man. He is not a "Beast" for nothing. For this man to be credible he must be (i) a king, (ii) a risen king, and (iii) a king who does miracles. Only in this way will he seem to fulfill Israel's prophets. Because men want what they want, and not what He wants, God gives it to them. Israel wanted flesh so God rained quail upon them. Israel wanted a king other than God, so they get human and fallen kings who led them astray. Israel, when faced with the choice of Jesus or Caesar, cried; "We have no king but Caesar!" (John 19:15). So they get their Caesar - Nero, a Roman resurrected from the dead.
    I see the beast as a demon influencing Rome and its leaders in the first century and Nero as he main figure.

    I also see the wound as he civil war which almost destroyed Rome just before 70AD

  9. #39
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    Re: Question

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    But Revelation does say that there won't be any temple in the NJ
    It says there is no temple within the city.

    22 And I saw no temple therein (the city): for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

    But there is a temple outside the city to the north.

    I see Matthew 24 as happening in the first century with the old temple
    Well then I guess you will never see the truth.

  10. #40
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    Re: Question

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    I agree to understand revelation you need the other books of the bible but that adds to my point about the temple not being mentioned as being desecrated in revelation
    How can you say this with the following scriptures...…

    11 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
    2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.


    Thus it is clear there is a temple.

  11. #41
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    Re: Question

    [QUOTE=ross3421;3512142]

    It says there is no temple within the city.

    22 And I saw no temple therein (the city): for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

    But there is a temple outside the city to the north.


    Well then I guess you will never see the truth.
    You lost me here about the temple outside the city

    [QUOTE=ross3421;3512142]

    It says there is no temple within the city.

    22 And I saw no temple therein (the city): for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

    But there is a temple outside the city to the north.


    Well then I guess you will never see the truth.
    You lost me here about the temple outside the city

  12. #42
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    Re: Question

    [QUOTE=ross3421;3512142]

    It says there is no temple within the city.

    It says, "the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple".

    Scripture does not speak of a temple outside NJ.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  13. #43
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    Re: Question

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    How can you say this with the following scriptures...…

    11 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
    2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.


    Thus it is clear there is a temple.
    Yes there is it was the current temple I believe at the time of the writing of revelation. Notice that it speaks as a current temple as it just says the temple not a future temple.

    But my point of this thread is that there is no mention of a future temple being desecrated in revelation

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    How can you say this with the following scriptures...…

    11 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
    2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.


    Thus it is clear there is a temple.
    Yes there is it was the current temple I believe at the time of the writing of revelation. Notice that it speaks as a current temple as it just says the temple not a future temple.

    But my point of this thread is that there is no mention of a future temple being desecrated in revelation

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    Re: Question

    [QUOTE=ewq1938;3512152]
    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post


    It says, "the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple".

    Scripture does not speak of a temple outside NJ.
    Yes agreed that’s my point no literal temple because it won’t be needed

  15. #45
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    Re: Question

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    Yes there is it was the current temple I believe at the time of the writing of revelation. Notice that it speaks as a current temple as it just says the temple not a future temple.
    So you think that this verse speaks of a current and or past temple?

    1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
    2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

    So the 42 months has past wherein the not only the time of the gentiles and of the 2W's?????

    Do you live in Colorado?

    But my point of this thread is that there is no mention of a future temple being desecrated in revelation
    The verse shows there is a future temple for one. I tried to show you this future temple is not desecrated (ie destroyed by the AC) but will be destroyed by God ie the abomination of desolations.....

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