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Thread: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 years?

  1. #46
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    Re: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 year

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    It's just not possible that there are two different 1260 day time periods between the two. The Two-witnesses die at the 2nd Woe, so in order for your assumption to be correct there would have to be 1260 days between the 2nd Woe {Two-witnesses die} and the 7th Vial {Beast dies}.

    The answer is very clear, the Two-witnesses show up to turn Israel back unto God JUST BEFORE the DOTL just as Malachi 4:5 says. We are trying to solve a problem the bible is very clear about in reality. The First Seal starts the 1260 days that the Jews Flee......thus the 2nd Woe is way down the line, in my estimation, 75 days before Jesus Second Coming kills the Beast. Apollyon is released at the 1st Woe, but he kills the Two-witnesses at the end of the 2nd Woe, because immediately after their bodies arise the 7th Trumpet sounds, which is the 3rd Woe.

    Rev. 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

    Yes, the Two-witnesses show up BEFORE the DOTL, and the Jews REPENT before the DOTL. That is why the Flee to Petra, they understand Jesus' warning in Matt. 24. Israel repents BY FAITH, as we all must do. God is not going to just show up ad say you are saved, them must repent by Faith alone, as we all do. So the 1/3 who repent flee Judea, they re already saved, they however need protecting because God has promised Abraham a seed forever.

    The REMNANT Church......the Church is in Heaven Marrying the Lamb, the Remnant Church can only be Gentiles who come unto Jesus after the Rapture. This discounts all who say that the Church has to have taken the place of Israel because we all are one. Both Jews and Gentiles will be Raptured via FAITH during the Church Age. And both Jews and Gentiles come unto Christ Jesus after the Rapture, via FAITH in Jesus. We are all ONE in Christ in that all men com into Christ in the exact same manner, by FAITH ALONE. The timing is not relevant at all.
    Note the following:

    1. The Witnesses die at the 1st Woe, not the second. See post #33.
    2. 1260 days is actually 3.5 years. And since you concede that the 2Ws will complete their ministry (1260 days) BEFORE the Beast's 3.5 years begins to count, then there's no disagreement that the 1260 days that Israel hides out in the desert is the same timeline for the Beast's 3.5yrs.

    3. Malachi 4:5 is about John the Baptist and already fulfilled. See post #33.
    4. There is very little logic to your timing; "75 days before Jesus Second Coming kills the Beast" would suggest that the 3.5 years of the Beast and the 2Ws 1260 days are concurrent. So unless I've misunderstood your position all along, this clearly is contradictory to your position.

    5. The position supported by scripture is that after the death of the Witnesses, there will be 3.5 years [time of the AC] before Jesus returns! Therefore, there's no logical explanation for your 75 days.
    6. I repeat that your post is full of contradiction. For e.g. (and this is the right interpretation) you posited that the Jews will repent because of the Witnesses ministry and flee to Petra where they remain for 1260 days/3.5 years until Jesus returns. So how does this square up with the 75 days you claimed earlier? Or are you suggesting that Israel will flee before the end of the Witnesses ministry which does make sense?

  2. #47
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    Re: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 year

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    I have followed this idea that the last trump is not the 7th for a while and can only conclude that the doctrine is inconclusive. There is no hard evidence that the trumpet heralding the Feast of Tabernacles is indeed the "Last" trump that Paul associated with the Second Coming. That is not to say the possibility is not there.
    The Seventh Trumpet is obviously not the Last Trump. Revelation goes on to describe the Seven Bowls, Armageddon and the Return of Jesus for His millennium reign.

    Paul doe NOT associate the last trump in 1 Corinthians 15:52, with the Return of Jesus. All of that prophecy is about the Judgement at the end of the Millennium.
    The Last Trump is the call for all the dead to rise and stand before God on His Throne. Revelation 20:11-15

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    Re: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 year

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Note the following:

    1. The Witnesses die at the 1st Woe, not the second. See post #33.
    They lie dead for 3.5 days then the second woe ends. Exactly how did they die in the first woe? Is the 2nd woe 3.5 days long??



    5. The position supported by scripture is that after the death of the Witnesses, there will be 3.5 years [time of the AC] before Jesus returns!
    Scripture doesn't support that.

    Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
    Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
    Rev 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
    Rev 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
    Rev 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
    Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
    Rev 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
    Rev 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
    Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.


    There is 3.5 days between the death of the two prophets and the end of the 2nd woe and the return of Jesus at the 3rd woe.

    3.5 days is not 3.5 years.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  4. #49
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    Re: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 year

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    The Seventh Trumpet is obviously not the Last Trump. Revelation goes on to describe the Seven Bowls, Armageddon and the Return of Jesus for His millennium reign.

    Paul doe NOT associate the last trump in 1 Corinthians 15:52, with the Return of Jesus. All of that prophecy is about the Judgement at the end of the Millennium.
    The Last Trump is the call for all the dead to rise and stand before God on His Throne. Revelation 20:11-15
    No trumpet is in those verses. Looks like the last of 7 trumpets is still the last trumpet afterall.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 year

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Note the following:

    1. The Witnesses die at the 1st Woe, not the second. See post #33.
    I read that and replied with proof from the bible that they die and 3.5 days later the 2nd Woe ENDS and the 7th Trumpet sounds {3rd Woe begins}. That's all we can do is go by the scriptures, we can't conjecture things onto the bible, the Two-witnesses die, their bodies lie in the streets 3 1/2 days, the the 2nd Woe ENDS.....So they have to die during the Second Woe. However it wouldn't matter as per the timing, if they died during the First Woe, then the First Woe would just have to come 75 days before the Second Coming. The juxtaposition is set in stone.

    2. 1260 days is actually 3.5 years. And since you concede that the 2Ws will complete their ministry (1260 days) BEFORE the Beast's 3.5 years begins to count, then there's no disagreement that the 1260 days that Israel hides out in the desert is the same timeline for the Beast's 3.5yrs.
    That's not what I said, I stated they must START their Ministry {ORDAINED OFFICE} BEFORE the Anti-Christ STARTS his ordained office. I did not say they must finish BEFORE the Beast comes to power. They start their 1260 journey 75 days before the Beast Conquers Jerusalem, and they preach in Jerusalem whilst the Beast is in power, they can't be touched, then 75 Days before Jesus Second Coming where Jesus kills the Beast, Apollyon is allowed to kill the Two-witnesses.

    3. Malachi 4:5 is about John the Baptist and already fulfilled. See post #33.
    No it is not, as I told you, I can prove it is not about John the Baptist, for starters, NO MAN can be born of a mother twice. Secondly.............

    Luke 1:13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John. 14 And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth. 15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. 16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.

    17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord. 18 And Zacharias said unto the angel, Whereby shall I know this? for I am an old man, and my wife well stricken in years. 19 And the angel answering said unto him, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God; and am sent to speak unto thee, and to shew thee these glad tidings.

    He goes forth in the SPIRIT & POWER of Elijah says Gabriel, he is not Elijah.

    At the Transfiguration in Matt. 17, Elijah and Moses was with Jesus, Jesus told his Disciples to tell no one until he had died and then risen. The he says this to their question.

    Matt. 17:10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?

    11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.

    12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them. 13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

    Jesus says Elijah SHALL COME and restore all things.....not HAS COME. Israel is not RESTORED until they Repent, they do so during the 70th week, God saw them as Dead Men's Bones for nigh 2000 years, turning His back unto them, they were not restored, and still aren't, but will be when Elijah returns.

    Then Jesus says that John The Baptist did the EXACT SAME THING that Elijah will do {Gabriel stated he came in the Spirit and the power of Elijah} he called Israel unto repentance, and many turned to God, but Israel as a nation of course did not repent, they rejected Jesus the express image of God. So John the Baptist SUBMITTED unto the Holy Spirit 100 percent just like Elijah did, so the MESSAGE was no different, but Israel was not ready to accept their Messiah, they will be ready when Elijah and {IMHO} Moses returns.

    Malachi 4:5 is about Elijah, not John the Baptist, he died 2000 years ago, Elijah was TAKEN, and Elijah was seen at the Transfiguration.

    4. There is very little logic to your timing; "75 days before Jesus Second Coming kills the Beast" would suggest that the 3.5 years of the Beast and the 2Ws 1260 days are concurrent. So unless I've misunderstood your position all along, this clearly is contradictory to your position.
    Well of course they are concurrent, {all but the 75 days} they die at the 2nd Woe. They pray down all the plagues. There is zero contradiction to my understandings and what I am saying now. Granted, maybe you aren't grasping it, but what I am saying is 100 percent consistent and 100 percent factual as per the two being almost concurrent, there has never been a doubt about that, one dies at the 2nd Woe and one dies at the 7th Vial. Honestly I don't get how anyone can't see that they have to be almost concurrent as per their timing, there really is no way around it.

    5. The position supported by scripture is that after the death of the Witnesses, there will be 3.5 years [time of the AC] before Jesus returns! Therefore, there's no logical explanation for your 75 days.
    Nowhere in the bible does it state that brother. They die at the 2nd Woe, then immediatly the 3rd Woe starts {and id doesn't last 3.5 years}.

    From the 1st Seal unto the 7th Via is exactly 3.5 years. I don't get your thinking on the timing at all brother. You stretch it out way too far.

    6. I repeat that your post is full of contradiction. For e.g. (and this is the right interpretation) you posited that the Jews will repent because of the Witnesses ministry and flee to Petra where they remain for 1260 days/3.5 years until Jesus returns. So how does this square up with the 75 days you claimed earlier? Or are you suggesting that Israel will flee before the end of the Witnesses ministry which does make sense?
    You just don't seem to understand my position. Many people are confused via the book of Revelation, and many people have a hard time explaining it because it's so jumbled.

    Let me try and tell the story in a legible straight line form or in linear form. Hope this works for us.

    Rev. 1 and 2 is the Church Age. Rev. 4 and 5 is the Raptured Church in Heaven before the Seals are opened {or in the first half of the 70th week on earth}.

    The Two-witnesses show up 75 Days before the First Seal {DOTL} is opened releasing the Beast to go forth. Then 1/3 of the Jews Repent at this time. The High Priest of Israel {the False Prophet} stops the Jews who turned unto Jesus from worshiping in the Temple and places an Image of the E.U, President in the Temple 45 days after the Two-witnesses show up thus we get the AoD, this happens 30 days before the Anti-Christ Conquers Jerusalem/Israel/Jews. The False Prophet is trying to appease this E.U. President no doubt and irk the Messianic/Jesus Jews whom he despises.

    Rev. 6 is Jesus releasing the Anti-Christ to go forth Conquering. Seal 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 are all opened basically simultaneously that is because the first four seals show what the Beast is going to do over a 42 month period via subset periods {White Horse Conquers for 42 Months, Red Horse takes Peace/brings War for 42 Months, Black Horse starves for 42 Months, the Pale Green Horse kills and causes sickness for 42 Months}, there is no waiting for these things to be fulfilled. The 5th Seal is the Saints he kills {Martyrs} over a 42 month period, and the 6th Seal is thus opened, all 6 are opened on day 1260 in the Middle of the week, the first 5 deal with what's coming over the next 42 Months, then God announces His Wrath is come, and Satan is cast out of Heaven, ALL HAPPEN ON DAY 1260}. Its Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, BOOM. All the Seals are opened at the same time, then the 7th Seal is held back, he Jews who are Fleeing, {the 144,000} need to be sealed or PROTECTED in Petra before the Trumpet Judgments that hurt the Sea, Trees and Earth are allowed to come upon mankind.

    From the First Seal to the 7th Vial is 1260 days !! That is the Middle of the 70th Week. The first 1260 days happens BEFORE the Seals are opened, the Anti-Christ comes forth in the Middle of the Week.

    Of course the Jews Flee before the Two-Witnesses Ministry ends, the Two-witnesses remain in Jerusalem brother, nothing can touch them until God allows Apollyon to kill them.

    The Two-witnesses are reviled by the whole World, they actually pray down all the plagues on mankind.

    Rev. 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

    7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

    They pray down all the Plagues on Wicked Mankind. Notice in Rev. 8 God's Nostrils receive incense {prayers} of the Saints then He cast down a Judgment of fire onto the earth. It also says the Beast from the Bottomless Pit has to wait to kill them until their testimony {1260 Day MINISTRY} is finished. So its not relevant when the Beast comes out of the bottomless pit. All that is relevant is when they show up and when their testimony is finished as per when they die.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I hope this Double Posting STOPS......YIKES.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Note the following:

    1. The Witnesses die at the 1st Woe, not the second. See post #33.
    I read that and replied with proof from the bible that they die and 3.5 days later the 2nd Woe ENDS and the 7th Trumpet sounds {3rd Woe begins}. That's all we can do is go by the scriptures, we can't conjecture things onto the bible, the Two-witnesses die, their bodies lie in the streets 3 1/2 days, the the 2nd Woe ENDS.....So they have to die during the Second Woe. However it wouldn't matter as per the timing, if they died during the First Woe, then the First Woe would just have to come 75 days before the Second Coming. The juxtaposition is set in stone.

    2. 1260 days is actually 3.5 years. And since you concede that the 2Ws will complete their ministry (1260 days) BEFORE the Beast's 3.5 years begins to count, then there's no disagreement that the 1260 days that Israel hides out in the desert is the same timeline for the Beast's 3.5yrs.
    That's not what I said, I stated they must START their Ministry {ORDAINED OFFICE} BEFORE the Anti-Christ STARTS his ordained office. I did not say they must finish BEFORE the Beast comes to power. They start their 1260 journey 75 days before the Beast Conquers Jerusalem, and they preach in Jerusalem whilst the Beast is in power, they can't be touched, then 75 Days before Jesus Second Coming where Jesus kills the Beast, Apollyon is allowed to kill the Two-witnesses.

    3. Malachi 4:5 is about John the Baptist and already fulfilled. See post #33.
    No it is not, as I told you, I can prove it is not about John the Baptist, for starters, NO MAN can be born of a mother twice. Secondly.............

    Luke 1:13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John. 14 And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth. 15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. 16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.

    17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord. 18 And Zacharias said unto the angel, Whereby shall I know this? for I am an old man, and my wife well stricken in years. 19 And the angel answering said unto him, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God; and am sent to speak unto thee, and to shew thee these glad tidings.

    He goes forth in the SPIRIT & POWER of Elijah says Gabriel, he is not Elijah.

    At the Transfiguration in Matt. 17, Elijah and Moses was with Jesus, Jesus told his Disciples to tell no one until he had died and then risen. The he says this to their question.

    Matt. 17:10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?

    11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.

    12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them. 13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

    Jesus says Elijah SHALL COME and restore all things.....not HAS COME. Israel is not RESTORED until they Repent, they do so during the 70th week, God saw them as Dead Men's Bones for nigh 2000 years, turning His back unto them, they were not restored, and still aren't, but will be when Elijah returns.

    Then Jesus says that John The Baptist did the EXACT SAME THING that Elijah will do {Gabriel stated he came in the Spirit and the power of Elijah} he called Israel unto repentance, and many turned to God, but Israel as a nation of course did not repent, they rejected Jesus the express image of God. So John the Baptist SUBMITTED unto the Holy Spirit 100 percent just like Elijah did, so the MESSAGE was no different, but Israel was not ready to accept their Messiah, they will be ready when Elijah and {IMHO} Moses returns.

    Malachi 4:5 is about Elijah, not John the Baptist, he died 2000 years ago, Elijah was TAKEN, and Elijah was seen at the Transfiguration.

    4. There is very little logic to your timing; "75 days before Jesus Second Coming kills the Beast" would suggest that the 3.5 years of the Beast and the 2Ws 1260 days are concurrent. So unless I've misunderstood your position all along, this clearly is contradictory to your position.
    Well of course they are concurrent, {all but the 75 days} they die at the 2nd Woe. They pray down all the plagues. There is zero contradiction to my understandings and what I am saying now. Granted, maybe you aren't grasping it, but what I am saying is 100 percent consistent and 100 percent factual as per the two being almost concurrent, there has never been a doubt about that, one dies at the 2nd Woe and one dies at the 7th Vial. Honestly I don't get how anyone can't see that they have to be almost concurrent as per their timing, there really is no way around it.

    5. The position supported by scripture is that after the death of the Witnesses, there will be 3.5 years [time of the AC] before Jesus returns! Therefore, there's no logical explanation for your 75 days.
    Nowhere in the bible does it state that brother. They die at the 2nd Woe, then immediatly the 3rd Woe starts {and id doesn't last 3.5 years}.

    From the 1st Seal unto the 7th Via is exactly 3.5 years. I don't get your thinking on the timing at all brother. You stretch it out way too far.

    6. I repeat that your post is full of contradiction. For e.g. (and this is the right interpretation) you posited that the Jews will repent because of the Witnesses ministry and flee to Petra where they remain for 1260 days/3.5 years until Jesus returns. So how does this square up with the 75 days you claimed earlier? Or are you suggesting that Israel will flee before the end of the Witnesses ministry which does make sense?
    You just don't seem to understand my position. Many people are confused via the book of Revelation, and many people have a hard time explaining it because it's so jumbled.

    Let me try and tell the story in a legible straight line form or in linear form. Hope this works for us.

    Rev. 1 and 2 is the Church Age. Rev. 4 and 5 is the Raptured Church in Heaven before the Seals are opened {or in the first half of the 70th week on earth}.

    The Two-witnesses show up 75 Days before the First Seal {DOTL} is opened releasing the Beast to go forth. Then 1/3 of the Jews Repent at this time. The High Priest of Israel {the False Prophet} stops the Jews who turned unto Jesus from worshiping in the Temple and places an Image of the E.U, President in the Temple 45 days after the Two-witnesses show up thus we get the AoD, this happens 30 days before the Anti-Christ Conquers Jerusalem/Israel/Jews. The False Prophet is trying to appease this E.U. President no doubt and irk the Messianic/Jesus Jews whom he despises.

    Rev. 6 is Jesus releasing the Anti-Christ to go forth Conquering. Seal 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 are all opened basically simultaneously that is because the first four seals show what the Beast is going to do over a 42 month period via subset periods {White Horse Conquers for 42 Months, Red Horse takes Peace/brings War for 42 Months, Black Horse starves for 42 Months, the Pale Green Horse kills and causes sickness for 42 Months}, there is no waiting for these things to be fulfilled. The 5th Seal is the Saints he kills {Martyrs} over a 42 month period, and the 6th Seal is thus opened, all 6 are opened on day 1260 in the Middle of the week, the first 5 deal with what's coming over the next 42 Months, then God announces His Wrath is come, and Satan is cast out of Heaven, ALL HAPPEN ON DAY 1260}. Its Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, BOOM. All the Seals are opened at the same time, then the 7th Seal is held back, he Jews who are Fleeing, {the 144,000} need to be sealed or PROTECTED in Petra before the Trumpet Judgments that hurt the Sea, Trees and Earth are allowed to come upon mankind.

    From the First Seal to the 7th Vial is 1260 days !! That is the Middle of the 70th Week. The first 1260 days happens BEFORE the Seals are opened, the Anti-Christ comes forth in the Middle of the Week.

    Of course the Jews Flee before the Two-Witnesses Ministry ends, the Two-witnesses remain in Jerusalem brother, nothing can touch them until God allows Apollyon to kill them.

    The Two-witnesses are reviled by the whole World, they actually pray down all the plagues on mankind.

    Rev. 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

    7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

    They pray down all the Plagues on Wicked Mankind. Notice in Rev. 8 God's Nostrils receive incense {prayers} of the Saints then He cast down a Judgment of fire onto the earth. It also says the Beast from the Bottomless Pit has to wait to kill them until their testimony {1260 Day MINISTRY} is finished. So its not relevant when the Beast comes out of the bottomless pit. All that is relevant is when they show up and when their testimony is finished as per when they die.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I hope this Double Posting STOPS......YIKES.

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    Re: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 year

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    one dies at the 2nd Woe and one dies at the 7th Vial.
    Who are you saying dies at the 7th vial?
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 year

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    No trumpet is in those verses. Looks like the last of 7 trumpets is still the last trumpet afterall.
    I gave the scripture, why didn't you check it and see your error?
    1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump; for the Trumpet shall sound and the dead shall be raised.....
    That this prophecy happens after the Millennium, is proved by how it is only then that Death is no more. Revelation 21:1-7

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    Re: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 year

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Who are you saying dies at the 7th vial?
    The Anti-Christ/Beast.

    Dan.7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

    Rev. 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

    Jesus destroys him at the 7th Vial. Rev. 19 is all about the Churches Rapture, Marriage to the Lamb, and Return. Its not a real time event as per the Chronology.

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Who are you saying dies at the 7th vial?
    The Anti-Christ/Beast.

    Dan.7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

    Rev. 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

    Jesus destroys him at the 7th Vial. Rev. 19 is all about the Churches Rapture, Marriage to the Lamb, and Return. Its not a real time event as per the Chronology.

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    Re: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 year

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    The Anti-Christ/Beast.
    Oh ok. It sounded like you thought one of the two witnesses died at the 2nd woe, then one at the 7th vial.

    Just as a slight nit-pick I would say the beast and FP die after the 7th vial...suffering from it but surviving because it does say they are cast alive into the LOF so they survive the 7th vial and it's effects and are cast into the LOF quickly afterward.

    Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  10. #55
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    Re: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 year

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    They lie dead for 3.5 days then the second woe ends. Exactly how did they die in the first woe? Is the 2nd woe 3.5 days long??





    Scripture doesn't support that.

    Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
    Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
    Rev 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
    Rev 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
    Rev 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
    Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
    Rev 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
    Rev 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
    Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.


    There is 3.5 days between the death of the two prophets and the end of the 2nd woe and the return of Jesus at the 3rd woe.

    3.5 days is not 3.5 years.
    Amen...………….again.

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    Re: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 year

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump; for the Trumpet shall sound and the dead shall be raised.....
    That this prophecy happens after the Millennium, is proved by how it is only then that Death is no more. Revelation 21:1-7
    [/QUOTE]

    Your confusion is in thinking there is a millennium. If there is no millennium, and there"s not, then the last trump does occur at the second coming as scriptures shows ie the 7th trumpet..


    The trumpet raises the dead, right?

    I thess 4
    16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
    1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump; for the Trumpet shall sound and the dead shall be raised.....


    So then does I Thess 4 happen after the millennium?

    15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
    16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
    17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
    18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.


    This just proves there is no millennium fairy tale.....,

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    Re: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 year

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Oh ok. It sounded like you thought one of the two witnesses died at the 2nd woe, then one at the 7th vial.

    Just as a slight nit-pick I would say the beast and FP die after the 7th vial...suffering from it but surviving because it does say they are cast alive into the LOF so they survive the 7th vial and it's effects and are cast into the LOF quickly afterward.

    Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
    I had another guy that used to say that, so in order to try and answer him had to ponder why the bible has a seeming CONTRADICTION in the verses I posted above, and my motto is God never contradicts Himself, it is us humans who confuse the passages or mistranslate them, or misunderstand the context. So I refuse to accept contradictions now, ad I go look at the passages and try to find out why WE are missing SOMETHING......since I started doing that, I can usually solve the problem. I solved this one to my satisfaction a year or so ago. The same two verses as above reposted.....

    Dan.7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

    Rev. 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

    So what gives ? That is what I asked myself !! How can one passage say his BODY is Destroyed, and the he is cast into hell, but the other passage say he is cast ALIVE ?

    In Dan. 12 it says the OTHER BEASTS lived on for a time and a Season, but this beast is cast straight into hell. So why are we getting this ?

    The Last Beast is a MAN, the other Beast were Kingdoms, God wants us to know this, Rev. 17 is all about explaining this fact, thus the 7 Kingdoms becomes Kings who have Fallen after they arose as Mountains. And only the LAST KING both Arises and Falls, thus hes a MAN. {THIS HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE POINT....LOL}

    Anyway, we know the Beast's Body is destroyed in Dan. 7:11, thus he must die, so what gives with Rev. 19:20 ?

    We only sleep at death, we are immortals, we live in Heaven or Hell for eternity. So essentially we never die, we just sleep until Judgment Day. But the Beast and False Prophet is JUDGED like all me must be as soon as he dies, he is ever allowed to SLEEP like everyone else is, even the Wicked killed in Armageddon aren't judged for 1000 years, but not the Beast and False Prophet, they are cast ALIVE {Not aloud to sleep in the grave}into hell straight away.

    This solves the problem of Daniel 7:11 which affirms his body is destroyed, that is an affirmation of an action. So only Rev. 19:20 needs to be explained. I think my understanding solves the so called contradiction between the two verses. He has to die and be Judged, but hes not allowed to SLEEP/Rest until everyone else is Judged, hes cast straight into hell, we are ALWAYS ALIVE, eve whilst we sleep in reality, if we even sleep, Jesus preached to the souls i the grave.

    Anyway, Daniel confirms he dies IMHO, so we just have to explain Rev. 19:20. I think this a solid explanation.

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    Re: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 year

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    So what gives ? That is what I asked myself !! How can one passage say his BODY is Destroyed, and the he is cast into hell, but the other passage say he is cast ALIVE ?

    IMO yours doesn't make any sense. I believe Daniels prophecies were changed after the end of the first covenant and the beginning OS the new one and thus God gave the newest information about the endtimes to John in Revelation. There's a lot of stuff Daniel writes that will never happen because God changed it and now the new info is in Rev. The length of the GT is shorter now, none of the ten horns are plucked up, and the beasts body is not dead when cast into the LOF. There's likely more but that's what I can think of off the top of my head.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 year

    The Bible isnt always clear, so how do we gain truth when it's easy to get confused: quite simply we take the uncomplicated face value as truth. Which is that Jesus comes to rule this world immediately after the witnesses are resurrected. The text says "soon" but the Greek word is "tachy" meaning without delay, suddenly.
    11 But after the three and a half days the breath[b] of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and terror struck those who saw them. 12 Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they went up to heaven in a cloud, while their enemies looked on.
    13 At that very hour there was a severe earthquake and a tenth of the city collapsed. Seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake, and the survivors were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven.
    14 The second woe has passed; the third woe is coming soon.15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said:

    “The kingdom of the world has become
    the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah,
    and he will reign for ever and ever.”

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    Re: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 year

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    IMO yours doesn't make any sense. I believe Daniels prophecies were changed after the end of the first covenant and the beginning OS the new one and thus God gave the newest information about the endtimes to John in Revelation. There's a lot of stuff Daniel writes that will never happen because God changed it and now the new info is in Rev. The length of the GT is shorter now, none of the ten horns are plucked up, and the beasts body is not dead when cast into the LOF. There's likely more but that's what I can think of off the top of my head.
    It makes plenty of sense. God can't lie, so its up to us to figure out what the verses mean,{Gabriel gave the vision to Daniel} and Daniel 7:11 can't be any plainer, his body is DESTROYED and hes then cast into hell. So the man is obviously killed. Also, ALL MEN must be judged after their death.

    Its obvious to me that the Anti-Christ is killed but never allowed to go to the Grave, hes judged and then cast straight into hell. We only die via the flesh bodies, we OUR ESSENCE, never dies, you are looking at things only with the human eye and in the human realm, we are Spirit Men also, our Spirit man looks exactly like our flesh body.

    Since Daniel specifically states the Anti-Christ/Beast dies, then he indeed dies as per his body, then the Spirit Man is judged and cast straight into hell, all other men when killed are judged 1000 years later at the Second Death.

    God never changes, you are just looking at things in a human manner. God doesn't have to change Prophecy, He knows all things ahead of time. The length of the Great Tribulation does not change either, the 70th week is still 7 years and the Wrath of God is still 3.5 years, Jesus indeed shortens the troubles by coming back, but he does so as originally planned, aga, God doesn't have to change His plans. Its just us who doesn't understand what he's saying.

    All men die and are judged.

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