Page 5 of 26 FirstFirst 12345678910111213141516 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 376

Thread: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 years?

  1. #61
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Clanton Alabama
    Posts
    1,074

    Re: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 year

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    The Bible isnt always clear, so how do we gain truth when it's easy to get confused: quite simply we take the uncomplicated face value as truth. Which is that Jesus comes to rule this world immediately after the witnesses are resurrected. The text says "soon" but the Greek word is "tachy" meaning without delay, suddenly.
    11 But after the three and a half days the breath[b] of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and terror struck those who saw them. 12 Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they went up to heaven in a cloud, while their enemies looked on.
    13 At that very hour there was a severe earthquake and a tenth of the city collapsed. Seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake, and the survivors were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven.
    14 The second woe has passed; the third woe is coming soon.15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said:

    “The kingdom of the world has become
    the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah,
    and he will reign for ever and ever.”
    We get our English word tachometer from the Greek work TACHOS which Rev. 1:1 describes as SHORTLY meaning in a short time frame, in SPEED, in HASTE, Jesus will come, once the Father gives him the word to return. So maybe TACHY is from the same root word, or an off shoot thereof. As per Revelation 11, its not a real time event per se.

    The Key to understanding Rev. 11 is that it is ALL ABOUT the Two-witnesses 1260 day Ministry of Witnessing to Mankind. Just like Rev. 2 is mentioned, but NO DETAILS are given, and we understand the 2nd Woe happened in Rev. ch. 9 where all THE DETAILS we also given, likewise Rev. 11 gives us the 7th Trumpet {which is the 3rd Woe} but gives us NO DETAILS, because the 7 Vials {which is the 3rd Woe} and THE DETAILS thereof are given unto us in Rev. ch. 16.

    The fault we make is not getting the point that Rev. 11 is a Parenthetical Citation, not a real time event. It's a chapter about the SPECIFICS of the Two-witnesses Ministry. Rev. 14 is about all three Harvests, the Wheat {Jews} are gathered on Mt. Zion as Jesus returns, the Wicked Tares are bundled together {to the grave} in verses 18-20 at Armageddon, then 1000 years later they are judged. The Church are Harvested in verse 14 on the Cloud. The Jews were indeed properly mentioned first, even though the Rapture comes first, they were the First fruits of God, Daniel/Abraham/ Moses etc. all died in Christ Jesus via THE PROMISE of his coming {THEY BELIEVED}.

    So I know it looks like Jesus comes back in Rev. ch. 11, {and he does} but Rev. ch. 11 is not a part of the Chronological Order per se. Rev. 11 ends with the Rev. 16 events. Its just telling the story of the Two-witnesses, without some of the Details given elsewhere.

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Coastal Mountains
    Posts
    8,240

    Re: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 year

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    We get our English word tachometer from the Greek work TACHOS which Rev. 1:1 describes as SHORTLY meaning in a short time frame, in SPEED, in HASTE, Jesus will come, once the Father gives him the word to return. So maybe TACHY is from the same root word, or an off shoot thereof. As per Revelation 11, its not a real time event per se.

    The Key to understanding Rev. 11 is that it is ALL ABOUT the Two-witnesses 1260 day Ministry of Witnessing to Mankind. Just like Rev. 2 is mentioned, but NO DETAILS are given, and we understand the 2nd Woe happened in Rev. ch. 9 where all THE DETAILS we also given, likewise Rev. 11 gives us the 7th Trumpet {which is the 3rd Woe} but gives us NO DETAILS, because the 7 Vials {which is the 3rd Woe} and THE DETAILS thereof are given unto us in Rev. ch. 16.

    The fault we make is not getting the point that Rev. 11 is a Parenthetical Citation, not a real time event. It's a chapter about the SPECIFICS of the Two-witnesses Ministry. Rev. 14 is about all three Harvests, the Wheat {Jews} are gathered on Mt. Zion as Jesus returns, the Wicked Tares are bundled together {to the grave} in verses 18-20 at Armageddon, then 1000 years later they are judged. The Church are Harvested in verse 14 on the Cloud. The Jews were indeed properly mentioned first, even though the Rapture comes first, they were the First fruits of God, Daniel/Abraham/ Moses etc. all died in Christ Jesus via THE PROMISE of his coming {THEY BELIEVED}.

    So I know it looks like Jesus comes back in Rev. ch. 11, {and he does} but Rev. ch. 11 is not a part of the Chronological Order per se. Rev. 11 ends with the Rev. 16 events. Its just telling the story of the Two-witnesses, without some of the Details given elsewhere.
    I think the simple face value points to Jesus coming immediately after the witnesses are resurrected. We don't need to look at root words when the Greek word itself has a clear meaning:
    Tachy:
    Quickly, immediately, without delay

    ταχύ tachı, takh-oo'; neuter singular of G5036 (as adverb); shortly, i.e. without delay, soon, or (by surprise) suddenly, or (by implication, of ease) readily:—lightly, quickly.

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    4,976
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 year

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    Dan.7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

    Rev. 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

    So what gives ? That is what I asked myself !! How can one passage say his BODY is Destroyed, and the he is cast into hell, but the other passage say he is cast ALIVE ?
    Originally Posted by ewq1938
    IMO yours doesn't make any sense. I believe Daniels prophecies were changed after the end of the first covenant and the beginning OS the new one and thus God gave the newest information about the endtimes to John in Revelation. There's a lot of stuff Daniel writes that will never happen because God changed it and now the new info is in Rev. The length of the GT is shorter now, none of the ten horns are plucked up, and the beasts body is not dead when cast into the LOF. There's likely more but that's what I can think of off the top of my head.
    The answer is that the word "ALIVE" does not mean "living".

    The Lord killeth, and maketh alive: he bringeth down to the grave, and bringeth up.

    Thus for any man one must be brought up from the grave to be judged. God will not skip this phase with the man AC, little horn, ect…. he will bow the knee like all others then given judgment and thrown into the LOF.

    So no contradiction, body is destroyed and he is cast alive (from the dead) into the LOF.

  4. #64
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Clanton Alabama
    Posts
    1,074

    Re: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 year

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    The answer is that the word "ALIVE" does not mean "living".

    The Lord killeth, and maketh alive: he bringeth down to the grave, and bringeth up.

    Thus for any man one must be brought up from the grave to be judged. God will not skip this phase with the man AC, little horn, ect…. he will bow the knee like all others then given judgment and thrown into the LOF.

    So no contradiction, body is destroyed and he is cast alive (from the dead) into the LOF.
    Good thought process. But the Beast and False Prophet are cast into hell straight away, Satan and everyone else 1000 years later at the Second Death.

    I think the simple face value points to Jesus coming immediately after the witnesses are resurrected. We don't need to look at root words when the Greek word itself has a clear meaning:
    Tachy:
    Quickly, immediately, without delay

    ταχύ tachı, takh-oo'; neuter singular of G5036 (as adverb); shortly, i.e. without delay, soon, or (by surprise) suddenly, or (by implication, of ease) readily:—lightly, quickly.
    Revelation 11 is not a part of the Chronological Order of the Book of Revelation. Trump number 7 is all 7 Vials combined or the 3rd Woe. You do believe all 7 Vials come to pass before Jesus returns right ? Jesus returns at the 7th Via which ends the 3rd Woe, so with the 7th Trumpet REPRESENTING the 3rd Woe, jesus will come back, as soon as the 7 Vials of the 3rd Woe ends. Yu see the 7th Trumpet STANDS FOR all 7 Vials in Rev. 11. Just like the 6th Trumpet was the 2nd Woe and the 5th Trumpet was the 1st Woe. We know thus via chapter 8.

    Rev. 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

    The Last Three Trumpets are the THREE WOES. The 3rd Woe is all 7 Vials so Rev. 11 is telling the story of the Two-Witnesses 1260 days of witnessing. Rev. 11 tells of the 2nd Woe but gives NO DETAILS, and likewise when Rev. 11 tells of the 7th Trumpet {3rd Woe} NO DETAILS are given. Sure, Jesus will come back as soon as the 3rd Woe is finished, that is true, now go to Rev. 16 and look at the DETAILS of the 7 Vials {3rd Woe}, when they are finished Jesus Returns at the 7th Vial.

    Rev. 11 covers 1335 days in essence, overlapping Rev. 6, 7, 8, 9, 15&16.

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    4,976
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 year

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    Good thought process. But the Beast and False Prophet are cast into hell straight away, Satan and everyone else 1000 years later at the Second Death.
    What if there is not a 1000 years?

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Coastal Mountains
    Posts
    8,240

    Re: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 year

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    We get our English word tachometer from the Greek work TACHOS which Rev. 1:1 describes as SHORTLY meaning in a short time frame, in SPEED, in HASTE, Jesus will come, once the Father gives him the word to return. So maybe TACHY is from the same root word, or an off shoot thereof. As per Revelation 11, its not a real time event per se.

    The Key to understanding Rev. 11 is that it is ALL ABOUT the Two-witnesses 1260 day Ministry of Witnessing to Mankind. Just like Rev. 2 is mentioned, but NO DETAILS are given, and we understand the 2nd Woe happened in Rev. ch. 9 where all THE DETAILS we also given, likewise Rev. 11 gives us the 7th Trumpet {which is the 3rd Woe} but gives us NO DETAILS, because the 7 Vials {which is the 3rd Woe} and THE DETAILS thereof are given unto us in Rev. ch. 16.

    The fault we make is not getting the point that Rev. 11 is a Parenthetical Citation, not a real time event. It's a chapter about the SPECIFICS of the Two-witnesses Ministry. Rev. 14 is about all three Harvests, the Wheat {Jews} are gathered on Mt. Zion as Jesus returns, the Wicked Tares are bundled together {to the grave} in verses 18-20 at Armageddon, then 1000 years later they are judged. The Church are Harvested in verse 14 on the Cloud. The Jews were indeed properly mentioned first, even though the Rapture comes first, they were the First fruits of God, Daniel/Abraham/ Moses etc. all died in Christ Jesus via THE PROMISE of his coming {THEY BELIEVED}.

    So I know it looks like Jesus comes back in Rev. ch. 11, {and he does} but Rev. ch. 11 is not a part of the Chronological Order per se. Rev. 11 ends with the Rev. 16 events. Its just telling the story of the Two-witnesses, without some of the Details given elsewhere.
    Sure it is a parenthesis. Even so there is a simple order of events within the chapter, and the second coming occurs immediately after the resurrection of the two witnesses. No matter how technical the analysis, the simplicity of the wording speaks for itself.

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    4,976
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 year

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    Revelation 11 is not a part of the Chronological Order of the Book of Revelation. Trump number 7 is all 7 Vials combined or the 3rd Woe. You do believe all 7 Vials come to pass before Jesus returns right ? Jesus returns at the 7th Via which ends the 3rd Woe, so with the 7th Trumpet REPRESENTING the 3rd Woe, jesus will come back, as soon as the 7 Vials of the 3rd Woe ends. Yu see the 7th Trumpet STANDS FOR all 7 Vials in Rev. 11. Just like the 6th Trumpet was the 2nd Woe and the 5th Trumpet was the 1st Woe. We know thus via chapter 8.

    Rev. 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

    The Last Three Trumpets are the THREE WOES. The 3rd Woe is all 7 Vials so Rev. 11 is telling the story of the Two-Witnesses 1260 days of witnessing. Rev. 11 tells of the 2nd Woe but gives NO DETAILS, and likewise when Rev. 11 tells of the 7th Trumpet {3rd Woe} NO DETAILS are given. Sure, Jesus will come back as soon as the 3rd Woe is finished, that is true, now go to Rev. 16 and look at the DETAILS of the 7 Vials {3rd Woe}, when they are finished Jesus Returns at the 7th Vial.

    Rev. 11 covers 1335 days in essence, overlapping Rev. 6, 7, 8, 9, 15&16.

    I agree..... Note also the same 3.5 years period described in each chapter 11,12,13. I think then chapters 14,15,16,17,18 describe events from 1260-1335 with chapters 19 being the 7th trumpet.

    So then you have the 2nd coming in chapters 11 and then in 19.....so why the pause or delay? John is then told to retell the prophecy this time to a different audience thus the replication though not exact description..

    Rev 10
    10 And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.
    11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    8,054
    Blog Entries
    13

    Re: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 year

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    As the Seven Plagues [Bowls] of Revelation 16:1-17 are near to and finish at the end of the final 3 1/2 years before Jesus Return, they coincide with what the Two Witnesses do. Revelation 11:3-6. Those two men will in fact; bring on God's punishment to the Anti-Christ and to those who have taken his mark.
    Unless you can provide some, I personally haven't seen any scriptural evidence that the "2Ws will bring on God's punishment to the Antichrist and those who have taken his mark". Rev 11:5 says if any man hurt them fire will proceed from their mouth and devour. If any man will hurt them, he will be killed in this manner.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    Therefore, they are present and doing God's work during the second half of that 7 year treaty, as per Daniel 9:27, When they are killed, at the end of the 1260 days, they are taken to heaven, but will soon return with Jesus, as He brings the souls of all those martyrs killed during the GT and they will live again for the Millennium.
    Kindly explain how the following fit into your position:

    1. When does the woman (Rev 12:6) flee into the desert? Before the 2Ws ministry, after or during the same time the Witnesses ministry is ongoing?
    2. Your position suggests that the 2Ws will be on earth at the time of the Great Tribulation. Do have any scriptural support to substantiate this view?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    ewq makes the contention that the Seventh Trumpet is the last and final trumpet.
    This idea cannot be correct, as in 1 Corinthians 15:50-56, Paul is prophesying about the final Judgment; the Great White Throne, when immortality is given to those whose names are Written in the Book of Life. THAT is when the last trumpet will sound; to call up all the people who have ever lived. AFTER the Millennium.
    The above has nothing to do with me, so I offer no response.

  9. #69
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    8,054
    Blog Entries
    13

    Re: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 year

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    What we do know, if prophecy if carefully studied, is that the Jews will no longer be a separate people, the remnant of them will join their Christian brethren, living in all of the holy Land. As Isaiah 56:1-8 plainly states, they will all make offerings in the new Temple. Jeremiah 17:26, Ezekiel 45:13-25
    I agree that believing Jews will not be different from the church. But it's imperative to clarify that Jewish converts will not be part of those offering daily oblation and sacrifice since there is no requirement for it under Christ. So those engaging in animal sacrifice will be Jewish unbelievers still in Judaism.

    Dan 12:11 11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate setup, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    14,325
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 year

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post

    Its obvious to me that the Anti-Christ is killed but never allowed to go to the Grave, hes judged and then cast straight into hell.
    He isn't killed before being cast into the LOF.

    We only die via the flesh bodies, we OUR ESSENCE, never dies, you are looking at things only with the human eye and in the human realm, we are Spirit Men also, our Spirit man looks exactly like our flesh body.
    Doesn't have anything to do with the fact the AC is not dead when cast into the LOF.

    Since Daniel specifically states the Anti-Christ/Beast dies, then he indeed dies as per his body,
    And John specifically states the Anti-Christ/Beast is not dead before being cast into the LOF.

    God doesn't have to change Prophecy
    He already has.

    The length of the Great Tribulation does not change either,
    It was changed from 7 years to half of that.

    the 70th week is still 7 years and the Wrath of God is still 3.5 years

    The wrath of God is not 3.5 years.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  11. #71
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    8,054
    Blog Entries
    13

    Re: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 year

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Scripture doesn't support this concept. While his identity is hidden for some time, it's not 3.5 years because the beast the AC will rule over only has 42 months and when that time expires, so will the beast and the AC. There is no extra 3.5 years either before the beasts 42 months or after it. There is simply only the 42 months, nothing more. We also know it's been shortened from 7 years (84 months) to 3.5 (42 months) because Christ told us:

    Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
    Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
    I'm not sure of the basis of your disagreement? The timeline recognised by scripture for the reign of the AC is 3.5 years which is synonymous with 42 months. We all know he will be in the world BEFORE he will fully reveal his true identity. What should be considered is the likelihood that he will probably be well known by some of his deeds. This is the time he will rely on cunning and deceit to fool people into seeing him as a man of peace. But when his 3.5 years officially starts, the gloves will be off. He will no longer require cunning to have his way - either one does his bidding or they are killed

    No, the two prophets are killed 3.5 days before the end of the second woe, not the 1st woe. The same hour they go up to heaven there is an earthquake then with no delay in time the 3rd woe/7th trump happens and Christ returns also in no delay of time. There is no extra 3.5 years that can be squeezed into this timeline.
    I have asked everyone who shares your view this question and I pose the same to you. When does the woman of Rev 12:6 flee into the desert? During the Witnesses' ministry, after or at the same time they are preaching in Jerusalem?

    They weren't effective in death. They were effective when alive for the second time, having been killed by the beast but then resurrect from that death showing that their God is more powerful than the false God the AC. The resurrection is what makes people realize the AC was actually a false god. Seeing Christ immediately return solidifies that truth especially if the other guy claimed to have been the returned Christ.
    The Witnesses are apparently more effective in death than alive because according to Rev 11:13, many believed and gave glory to the God of heaven after witnessing their ascension to heaven. I notice you said they were effective "the second time alive" which basically is the same thing I said.

    There's only 3.5 days before Christ returns. And the 3.5 years in the end of Rev 12 is before the GT even starts so whatever that 3.5 years period is, it starts before the 42 months does for the beast.
    I'm not sure how you worked out that there are 3.5 days before Christ returns? Which scripture said that? Now you confuse me with [I]"And the 3.5 years in the end of Rev 12 is before the GT even starts so whatever that 3.5 years period is, it starts before the 42 months does for the beast."[/I

    If the 3.5 years of the Beast is BEFORE the GT, are you then saying that at the end of the GT, the AC will last another 3.5 years before Jesus returns?

  12. #72
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    8,054
    Blog Entries
    13

    Re: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 year

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    They die just before the end of the 2nd woe: Rev 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
    Thanks for this passage.

  13. #73
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    4,976
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 year

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    He isn't killed before being cast into the LOF.
    4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
    5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
    6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
    7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
    8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

  14. #74
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    8,054
    Blog Entries
    13

    Re: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 year

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly. 15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign forever and ever.

    The Demon Apollyon is destined for perdition, but that only means he has destiny to be damned to hell, the timing isn't relevant. Apollyon is the Scarlet Colored Beast of Rev. 17 with NO CROWNS. He was the prince of Persia in Dan. 10, he was over the Mediterranean Sea Region until God placed him in the bottomless pit for the duration of the Church Age. He will be released to coincide with the Anti-Christ taking over the Mediterranean Sea Region again.

    They start their Ministry 75 Days before the Anti-Christ, they thus finish their 1260 day "OFFICE" 75 days before the Beast finishes his 1260 day "OFFICE" as the Beast.
    On reflection, I concede that the 2Ws die at the 2nd and not the 1st Woe. Thank you. Where did the 75 days come from? If you subtract 1260 from 1290 you get 30 days? Please explain?

    Unfortunately people misconstrue these passages, Jesus is not saying that John the Baptist is Elijah, he's MAKING A POINT, that if the Jews had of been ready to Repent, John did just as good a job as Elijah will do. He came in the Spirit of Elijah, {a call unto repentance}. I can put it together if needed to prove the passages are not saying the John is Elijah. Jesus tells them that Elijah will indeed come to restore Israel before the Son of Man returns to save/restore Israel. But that is just before the Second Coming and 75 days before the DOTL. If needed I can go through it and show that Jesus even states that John is not Elijah, or is it an Angel that says it. Anyway Jesus is just taking up for John the Baptists Ministry, hes saying basically, no man ever born to a woman was ever a better man than John the Baptist, [its not his fault Israel did not Repent as a nation.] You can trust me on this or I can go through it, either way, its all good.
    I value your exegesis so perhaps you can explain it to me at your convenience. Not that I'm still in doubt, it's just for my knowledge and edification.

    You have to JUXTAPOSE the two against each other. If the Beast reigns 42 Months {1260 days} and the Two-witnesses show up 75 days before he comes to power as the Beast, then they DIE 75 days before he dies as the Beast, then don't they both have parallel "OFFICES" save the 75 day offsets ? If two businesses open for 10 years, one opens 75 days before the 2nd one and closes 75 days before the 2nd one closes, aren't they both open for 10 years ?

    The 1335, 1290 and 1260 gives us our timeline of Events. Each is how many days from a certain event until these Wonders End. The 1260 is the Beast Conquering the Holy people, Jesus {Man in Linen} says that its 1260 days from the time Jerusalem is conquered until all these wonders end {Second Coming} The 1290 is likewise 1290 days until these Wonders End {Second Coming} ad the 1335 is 1335 days until these wonders end {Second Coming.}.

    1.) 1335 the Two-witnesses show up to turn Israel back unto God.

    2.) 1290 is the False Prophet {High Priest} forbidding the Jews from worshiping Jesus and then defiling the Temple by placing an Image of the E.U. President in the Temple.

    3.) The Anti-Christ Conquers Jerusalem, the Jews had 30 days to Flee Judea.

    So they do show up for 1260 days, but its not parallel with the Beasts 1260 days, the Jews HAVE to repent first, else how would they know to Flee Judea ? Or where to go ?

    Look at it like this.....

    ..........................................1335 days BEFORE the Second Coming the Two-witnesses show up................................................ .........{2W die}......Second Coming.
    .................................................. 1290 days BEFORE the Second Coming the Abomination happens........................................... ............................Second Coming.
    .................................................. .......1260 day's BEFORE the Second Coming the Anti-Christ Conquers Jerusalem......................................... .........Second Coming.

    From the 1335 until the 2 witnesses die is 1260 days, they just show up before the Beast Conquers Jerusalem via 75 days.

    Well I didn't want to put all this Scripture in to make the point, so I pointed towards the Rev. 11 passage where they die. We are each more familiar to some passages so.....

    Rev. 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. 9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. 10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth. {They pray down Every Plague}

    11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. 12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. 13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

    14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly. 15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

    They die, then 3 1/2 days later the Second Woe Ends and the 7th Trumpet {3rd Woe starts}. The Demons during he 1st Woe are commanded to not hurt any men. The Two-witnesses job is two fold 1.) Preach Christ Jesus Crucified to the Jews and others, get the Jews to repent BEFORE the DOTL. 2.) Pray down the plagues on Mankind, so they die at the end of the 2nd Woe, thus their prayers for the 3rd Woe {7th Trumpet} have already gone out to the Father/Son/God. This is why they are reviled by the world. So they die, lay in the streets for 3.5 days, then arise and the 7th Trumpet is blown as the 2nd Woe is ending, they must die during the 2nd Woe.

    The Demon Apollyon is destined for perdition, but that only means he has destiny to be damned to hell, the timing isn't relevant. Apollyon is the Scarlet Colored Beast of Rev. 17 with NO CROWNS. He was the prince of Persia in Dan. 10, he was over the Mediterranean Sea Region until God placed him in the bottomless pit for the duration of the Church Age. He will be released to coincide with the Anti-Christ taking over the Mediterranean Sea Region again.

    They start their Ministry 75 Days before the Anti-Christ, they thus finish their 1260 day "OFFICE" 75 days before the Beast finishes his 1260 day "OFFICE" as the Beast.

    Well if Elijah is one of the Two-witnesses {and he is} then both have to show up at the same time.

    Unfortunately people misconstrue these passages, Jesus is not saying that John the Baptist is Elijah, he's MAKING A POINT, that if the Jews had of been ready to Repent, John did just as good a job as Elijah will do. He came in the Spirit of Elijah, {a call unto repentance}. I can put it together if needed to prove the passages are not saying the John is Elijah. Jesus tells them that Elijah will indeed come to restore Israel before the Son of Man returns to save/restore Israel. But that is just before the Second Coming and 75 days before the DOTL. If needed I can go through it and show that Jesus even states that John is not Elijah, or is it an Angel that says it. Anyway Jesus is just taking up for John the Baptists Ministry, hes saying basically, no man ever born to a woman was ever a better man than John the Baptist, [its not his fault Israel did not Repent as a nation.] You can trust me on this or I can go through it, either way, its all good.

    You have to JUXTAPOSE the two against each other. If the Beast reigns 42 Months {1260 days} and the Two-witnesses show up 75 days before he comes to power as the Beast, then they DIE 75 days before he dies as the Beast, then don't they both have parallel "OFFICES" save the 75 day offsets ? If two businesses open for 10 years, one opens 75 days before the 2nd one and closes 75 days before the 2nd one closes, aren't they both open for 10 years ?

    The 1335, 1290 and 1260 gives us our timeline of Events. Each is how many days from a certain event until these Wonders End. The 1260 is the Beast Conquering the Holy people, Jesus {Man in Linen} says that its 1260 days from the time Jerusalem is conquered until all these wonders end {Second Coming} The 1290 is likewise 1290 days until these Wonders End {Second Coming} ad the 1335 is 1335 days until these wonders end {Second Coming.}.

    1.) 1335 the Two-witnesses show up to turn Israel back unto God.

    2.) 1290 is the False Prophet {High Priest} forbidding the Jews from worshiping Jesus and then defiling the Temple by placing an Image of the E.U. President in the Temple.

    3.) The Anti-Christ Conquers Jerusalem, the Jews had 30 days to Flee Judea.

    So they do show up for 1260 days, but its not parallel with the Beasts 1260 days, the Jews HAVE to repent first, else how would they know to Flee Judea ? Or where to go ?

    Look at it like this.....

    ..........................................1335 days BEFORE the Second Coming the Two-witnesses show up................................................ .........{2W die}......Second Coming.
    .................................................. 1290 days BEFORE the Second Coming the Abomination happens........................................... ............................Second Coming.
    .................................................. .......1260 day's BEFORE the Second Coming the Anti-Christ Conquers Jerusalem......................................... .........Second Coming.

    From the 1335 until the 2 witnesses die is 1260 days, they just show up before the Beast Conquers Jerusalem via 75 days.
    I have diligently considered the above and find it hard to accept for these reasons. According to you:

    1. At 1335 days to the Return of Christ, the Witnesses show up.
    2. At 1290 to the return of Christ, the FP or the AC himself desecrates the temple.
    3. And the AC conquers Jerusalem and the Jews have 30 days to flee into the wilderness.

    From the above, how then do you justify the fact that scriptures say that Israel will actually spend 1260 days in Petra (Rev 12:6 & 14)? The problem with your theory is that it places Israel in Petra at the same time the Witnesses ministry is ongoing making it impossible to prove that their flight resulted from their believing the 2Ws. Logically, it would mean that they have already believed BEFORE or at the SAME TIME the Witnesses began to preach. I don't need to remind you that this doesn't make sense.

    Moreso, when we see those in Rev 11:13 that believe "and gave glory to God" after seeing the resurrection and ascension of the Witnesses. It is my contention that these believers who give glory to God are the ones that flee for dear life. Meaning their flight occurs at the END of the 2Ws 1260 days!

    Furthermore, it is impossible to believe that Jerusalem capitulated to the Beast while the 2Ws was still preaching in Jerusalem because we know the fall of Jerusalem.

    So I posit the following as appropriate and logical.

    a. The 2Ws finish their ministry for 1260 days, die and ascend to heaven.
    b. A majority of Israel believe.
    c. The AC moves into the temple claiming to be God.
    d. To quote you some while ago - the believers' will recognise the desecration as the sign to get out of Dodge - and consequently, flee to Petra where they remain for another 1260 days until Jesus returns.
    e. This scenario will thus place the 1260 days of the 2Ws BEFORE the flight of Isreal with another 1260 days prior to Christ' return.
    f. Therefore, the only reasonable timescale that runs concurrently is the Beast's 3.5 years and Israel's 1260 days in a protective sojourn in Petra.

  15. #75
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    8,054
    Blog Entries
    13

    Re: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 year

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    The Seventh Trumpet is obviously not the Last Trump. Revelation goes on to describe the Seven Bowls, Armageddon and the Return of Jesus for His millennium reign.

    Paul doe NOT associate the last trump in 1 Corinthians 15:52, with the Return of Jesus. All of that prophecy is about the Judgement at the end of the Millennium.
    The Last Trump is the call for all the dead to rise and stand before God on His Throne. Revelation 20:11-15
    The way I understand it, the *last trump* in 1 Cor 15:52 heralds the resurrection and rapture of the saints BEFORE Jesus return to earth. On the contrary, you seem to place it a thousand years later, i.e. at the Throne Judgment. I don't think it's correct.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 7
    Last Post: Mar 9th 2017, 07:56 PM
  2. Replies: 44
    Last Post: Aug 20th 2015, 06:09 PM
  3. The Dome of the Rock is not related to the 1260 days.
    By Aijalon in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: Dec 17th 2013, 10:37 PM
  4. Please Help Are the 1260 days the same as time, times, and a half of time?
    By ross3421 in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: Nov 27th 2013, 04:12 PM
  5. Replies: 15
    Last Post: May 5th 2013, 06:57 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •