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Thread: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 years?

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    Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 years?

    Sometimes a Thread gives rise to another pertinent topic that often requires that it is discussed independently. Therefore, as an offshoot of an ongoing OP, I am compelled to ask; will the 3.5 years of the Antichrist run concurrent or consecutive to the 1260 days of the Two Witnesses? Some posit that there's only one 3.5 years in the end-times, thus pitying the Beast and the 2Ws in the same timescale. I don't think it is true.

    I am personally of the opinion that Israel has to hear the preaching of the Witnesses before their flight into the desert given that it is the same 1260 days (Rev 12:6) they will stay in the wilderness that the 2Ws will preach in Jerusalem.

    What is your opinion?

  2. #2

    Re: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 year

    My view is that the 2 Witnesses' 1260 days run concurrently with the "6 [of the 7] Trumpets" so that these STRADDLE the two halves, like this:

    l------------l------------l = 7-yr trib

  3. #3

    Re: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 year

    ugh... it posted before I finished... the following depicts the 2W's time slot:

    l-------[2W>>>>>>>]------l



    ...with the SEALS before the 2W's time slot, and the 7thTRUMPET & all VIALS after the 2W's time slot (with the 5th Trumpet being the mid-trib point; 4 TRUMPETS fall in the first half; #s 5-6-7 in the second half).

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    Re: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 year

    Trumpets 5-6-7 also being [the 3] "WOES"

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    Re: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 year

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Sometimes a Thread gives rise to another pertinent topic that often requires that it is discussed independently. Therefore, as an offshoot of an ongoing OP, I am compelled to ask; will the 3.5 years of the Antichrist run concurrent or consecutive to the 1260 days of the Two Witnesses? Some posit that there's only one 3.5 years in the end-times, thus pitying the Beast and the 2Ws in the same timescale. I don't think it is true.

    I am personally of the opinion that Israel has to hear the preaching of the Witnesses before their flight into the desert given that it is the same 1260 days (Rev 12:6) they will stay in the wilderness that the 2Ws will preach in Jerusalem.

    What is your opinion?
    Your thinking is colored by how you separate Israel from the Church.

    Define Israel; are they just the Jewish State of Israel, plus another few million people who call themselves Jews?

    Define the Church; is it the established proliferation of denominations who purport to be Christian?

    My contention, supported by much scripture, is that the true Israel is the church of God. Every individual who believes in God, who has accepted the Salvation of Jesus and who keeps the Commandments. Jesus plainly said that there is only one faithful people; John 17:20-23 and Paul makes it crystal clear in Ephesians 4:4-6 and 2:11-18
    The idea that God will eventually redeem and restore that people group who now claim to be Israel, who say the are Jews, but are not; is false teaching, as Jesus says in Revelation 3:9 and Paul in Romans 9:27; only a remnant will be saved.

    Re the OP; the final 3 1/2 years of the Church age is well prophesied in Daniel and Revelation, as the Great Tribulation, when God will send terrible disasters upon the people who follow the Anti-Christ and take his mark. God will send His 2 Witnesses to preach to those Christians who remain in Jerusalem, as Daniel 11:32 tells us; have been divided into 2 groups, one exiled, that is; taken to safety, Revelation 12:14 and the other remains. Rev 12:17. Also Zechariah 14:2b

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    Re: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 year

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Sometimes a Thread gives rise to another pertinent topic that often requires that it is discussed independently. Therefore, as an offshoot of an ongoing OP, I am compelled to ask; will the 3.5 years of the Antichrist run concurrent or consecutive to the 1260 days of the Two Witnesses? Some posit that there's only one 3.5 years in the end-times, thus pitying the Beast and the 2Ws in the same timescale. I don't think it is true.

    I am personally of the opinion that Israel has to hear the preaching of the Witnesses before their flight into the desert given that it is the same 1260 days (Rev 12:6) they will stay in the wilderness that the 2Ws will preach in Jerusalem.

    What is your opinion?

    The two prophets rise up to heaven, the same hour is a great earthquake, then immediately without delay the 3rd woe/7th trump sounds and Jesus returns. There is no room for any more time for the beast and FP to exist because Christ destroys them the day he returns. The end of Rev 11 is crystal clear on this.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 year

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    The two prophets rise up to heaven, the same hour is a great earthquake, then immediately without delay the 3rd woe/7th trump sounds and Jesus returns. There is no room for any more time for the beast and FP to exist because Christ destroys them the day he returns. The end of Rev 11 is crystal clear on this.
    That's right EWQ...……..end of thread.

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    Re: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 year

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
    ugh... it posted before I finished... the following depicts the 2W's time slot:

    l-------[2W>>>>>>>]------l



    ...with the SEALS before the 2W's time slot, and the 7thTRUMPET & all VIALS after the 2W's time slot (with the 5th Trumpet being the mid-trib point; 4 TRUMPETS fall in the first half; #s 5-6-7 in the second half).
    Sorry, I'm still not sure how it fits into the 3.5 years of the Beast...

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    Re: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 year

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    Your thinking is colored by how you separate Israel from the Church.

    Define Israel; are they just the Jewish State of Israel, plus another few million people who call themselves Jews?

    Define the Church; is it the established proliferation of denominations who purport to be Christian?

    My contention, supported by much scripture, is that the true Israel is the church of God. Every individual who believes in God, who has accepted the Salvation of Jesus and who keeps the Commandments. Jesus plainly said that there is only one faithful people; John 17:20-23 and Paul makes it crystal clear in Ephesians 4:4-6 and 2:11-18
    The idea that God will eventually redeem and restore that people group who now claim to be Israel, who say the are Jews, but are not; is false teaching, as Jesus says in Revelation 3:9 and Paul in Romans 9:27; only a remnant will be saved.

    Re the OP; the final 3 1/2 years of the Church age is well prophesied in Daniel and Revelation, as the Great Tribulation, when God will send terrible disasters upon the people who follow the Anti-Christ and take his mark. God will send His 2 Witnesses to preach to those Christians who remain in Jerusalem, as Daniel 11:32 tells us; have been divided into 2 groups, one exiled, that is; taken to safety, Revelation 12:14 and the other remains. Rev 12:17. Also Zechariah 14:2b
    If this is an exam you would have failed woefully because you lost sight of the question and went off on something else. Unfortunately, I found nothing in your post in relation to my question. But thanks for your response.

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    Re: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 year

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    The two prophets rise up to heaven, the same hour is a great earthquake, then immediately without delay the 3rd woe/7th trump sounds and Jesus returns. There is no room for any more time for the beast and FP to exist because Christ destroys them the day he returns. The end of Rev 11 is crystal clear on this.
    So you believe that the woman (Israel) flees into the desert at the same time that the Witnesses' ministry begins and remains there until their death and ascension to heaven, is that correct?
    Problem is if Israel is not in Jerusalem at the time of the 2Ws 1260 days ministry, who then will they preach to? Would that not have defeated the purpose for which God sent them in the first place?

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    Re: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 year

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    So you believe that the woman (Israel) flees into the desert at the same time that the Witnesses' ministry begins and remains there until their death and ascension to heaven, is that correct?
    No, All of Rev 12 happens before the 42 months of the beast and 1260 days of the 2W.


    Problem is if Israel is not in Jerusalem at the time of the 2Ws 1260 days ministry, who then will they preach to?
    Anyone. It isn't written they speak to Israel nor is Israel missing during the 1260 days anyways.


    Would that not have defeated the purpose for which God sent them in the first place?
    The only purpose scripture speaks of is prophesying for 1260 days and later speaks of finishing their testimony. Anything else is speculation not based on the text.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 year

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Sometimes a Thread gives rise to another pertinent topic that often requires that it is discussed independently. Therefore, as an offshoot of an ongoing OP, I am compelled to ask; will the 3.5 years of the Antichrist run concurrent or consecutive to the 1260 days of the Two Witnesses? Some posit that there's only one 3.5 years in the end-times, thus pitying the Beast and the 2Ws in the same timescale. I don't think it is true.

    I am personally of the opinion that Israel has to hear the preaching of the Witnesses before their flight into the desert given that it is the same 1260 days (Rev 12:6) they will stay in the wilderness that the 2Ws will preach in Jerusalem.

    What is your opinion?
    You pose an interesting question. It is not settled whether they preached in the 3 years leading up the Abomination of Desolation, or the the 3 years of the Beast's reign in Jerusalem. Here are some of my considerations.

    The world scene at the emergence of the Beast.
    The world has been faced with two options since the advent of Jesus Christ. (i) Shall we follow the teaching and dictates of this most famous of all men - Jesus? The gospel of grace and of the coming Kingdom predicted in Daniel has reached all nations. The followers of this Jesus teach about His return to earth and His taking up universal Kingship. (ii) Shall we look for another charismatic, powerful, miracle-maker who will seem to be able to solve the world's woes? The answer is that for some seemingly inexplicable reason, Jesus, Who never hurt anybody, and spent His public life doing good, is hated and rejected by men. So the world is ripe to accept a world leader who seems to bale to save the wolrd and at the same time, allow men to exercise their innate perfidy.

    The Beast's Seven Years.
    Daniel divides the authority of the Beast into two three and one half periods. The first is when he has the authority to "strengthen" or "confirm" THE Covenant with Daniel's People. The reinstatement of the daily oblation means that Israel will have the ability to build a Temple in Jerusalem and practice the Law of Moses. The question now is, "Would the Two Witnesses object to this?". The Second three and oe half year reign of the Beast is when he has the power, authority and support of Israel and world politics at large to cancel the daily oblation, set himself up as deity in the Holy of Holies of this Temple and command that he alone be worshipped. Again, the question is, "Would the Two Witnesses object this?

    The Types.
    Scripture does not name the Two Witnesses. But we have clues as to who they are. The crisis in the world at that time is twofold.
    1. The Gentiles have heard the gospel and REJECT Jesus Christ. Another man makes claim to what Jesus claimed for Himself and men ACCEPT him. The setting is Jerusalem, and the issue is, "who rules the earth and who should we give all loyalty to?" A large portion of the earth accept the Beast and bow down to him. God is incensed. But forever gracious He gives a last warning. One, or both of the Witnesses will address the Gentiles about God's wrath - just as Noah did. That Witness, or Witnesses would be a man like Noah, but Noah is dead, and cannot die again. He would most likely be Enoch who was a "WITNESS" of universal judgement upon the Gentiles (for at Noah's time there were no Jews). Enoch was the only WITNESS of the last universal judgement because men were evil. And he would have preached Noah's message WHILE THE EVIL WAS BEING PERPETRATED.
    2. Israel have the Law. In this Law a number of things are forever settled. (i) The Temple is for God to dwell in, (ii) a Gentile cannot enter this Temple, (iii) idols have no place in all Israel especially in the Temple, and (iv) the name of God is Jehovah and not the sum of 666. The only WITNESS of a similar era was Elijah. He stood seemingly alone against all Israel and their idols and the false priests. In judgement, he shut heaven for 3 years WHILE THE EVIL WAS BEING PERPETRATED.

    The Two Witnesses testify IN Jerusalem of God's judgement because Gentiles has chosen an evil king who panders to their wants instead of Jesus, and because Israel is flagrantly breaking the Law. I judge that this testimony is DURING THE LAST 3 YEARS WHILE THE EVIL IS APPARENT

    But this conclusion is not without legitimate objection. It is the timing of the woes. Revelation 9:12 predicts THREE WOES. That means that the murder of the Two Witness by the beast will come just hours before the end of his reign in Jerusalem. Where then is the time left for the third woe? Even if the third woe "comes quickly" or "without delay", as the Greek suggests, what is it and how long does it last? First, though I would dearly like to expound it, I have to admit that I don't know for sure. Here then is my speculation.

    The second woe is followed by the third "quickly". What was the first woe? It was the torment of men (Chapter 9). What was the second woe? The death of seven thousand men in Jerusalem by earthquake. What happened at the moment of resurrection and rapture of the Two Witnesses? A large portion of men who witnessed it "gave glory to God". What would the Beast do to any man giving glory to another God? KILL THEM (Rev.13:15)! Could it be that the army needed for this slaughter was the army of Revelation 9. They are 200 thousand, thousand strong, that is, 200 million. And they kill a third of men. Could it be that the Two Witnesses were more effective in death than life and that at their resurrection and rapture men suddenly gave heed? Though the Two Witnesses are killed in Jerusalem, the events would be televised worldwide. Revelation 11:9 informs us that, "And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves." Could it be that the Two Witnesses had their effect and that men began to question the Beast's authority? What would happen to dissenters? The same as to dissenters of Stalin, or Mao. A general purging of possible dissenters. And when and how quickly could a modern army of 200 million soldiers kill 2.5 billion? Each soldier would only have to kill 13 men or women. It could be done in a few hours.

    There is a legitimate objection to the Two Witnesses serving in the last three and one half years of the Beast's reign. But there is equally a legitimate answer to this objection. The reader may judge.

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    Re: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 year

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    No, All of Rev 12 happens before the 42 months of the beast and 1260 days of the 2W.
    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    The two prophets rise up to heaven, the same hour is a great earthquake, then immediately without delay the 3rd woe/7th trump sounds and Jesus returns. There is no room for any more time for the beast and FP to exist because Christ destroys them the day he returns. The end of Rev 11 is crystal clear on this.
    In your first post (copied above) you said regarding, the aftermath of the ascension of the 2Ws, that "There is no room for any more time for the beast and FP to exist because Christ destroys them the day he returns." This position suggests you believe that the time of the Witnesses and that of the AC will be concurrent. Yet you contradict yourself by saying now that the 1260 days the woman/Israel (Rev 12:6) will spend it the desert is BEFORE the 1260 days of the "2Ws and the 3.5 years of the Beast.

    For this to be possible, it means that the woman will be in the desert for 7 years before Jesus returns. Yet scripture says she will be in the wilderness for 1260 days or 3.5 years. Do the Maths and you'll find your view don't add up.

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Anyone. It isn't written they speak to Israel nor is Israel missing during the 1260 days anyways.
    Anyone, who is anyone? Gentiles? This is the Gospel age for the Gentiles! According to Rom 11:25 "the fulness of the Gentiles would have come in" by that time, meaning that God's attention will revert to ethnic Israel. It's obvious you've not really thought this through and are just making it up as go you.

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    The only purpose scripture speaks of is prophesying for 1260 days and later speaks of finishing their testimony. Anything else is speculation not based on the text.
    Speaking about speculation, yours is out with the fairies. If God is sending the Witnesses expressly for Israel, why didn't he send them to preach in New York, London or any other city? Why Jerusalem?

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    Re: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 year

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    In your first post (copied above) you said regarding, the aftermath of the ascension of the 2Ws, that "There is no room for any more time for the beast and FP to exist because Christ destroys them the day he returns." This position suggests you believe that the time of the Witnesses and that of the AC will be concurrent. Yet you contradict yourself by saying now that the 1260 days the woman/Israel (Rev 12:6) will spend it the desert is BEFORE the 1260 days of the "2Ws and the 3.5 years of the Beast.
    That's not a contradiction. The time periods given in Rev 12 happen before the time periods found in Rev 13. Rev 13's 42 months and the 2w's 1260 days are concurrent, or mostly concurrent. I explained that minor dif in a dif post. Either way, the two periods are not consecutive because when the two prophets rise into heaven, there is a single day or less before the beast and FP are destroyed.


    For this to be possible, it means that the woman will be in the desert for 7 years before Jesus returns. Yet scripture says she will be in the wilderness for 1260 days or 3.5 years. Do the Maths and you'll find your view don't add up.
    My view is unaffected by anything happening in Rev 12.



    Anyone, who is anyone? Gentiles? This is the Gospel age for the Gentiles! According to Rom 11:25 "the fulness of the Gentiles would have come in" by that time, meaning that God's attention will revert to ethnic Israel. It's obvious you've not really thought this through and are just making it up as go you.
    I go by the text and I don't insert things into the text like the 2w preaching to Israel.

    If God is sending the Witnesses expressly for Israel, why didn't he send them to preach in New York, London or any other city? Why Jerusalem?
    They are killed in Jerusalem. The text doesn't say they were in Jerusalem to preach to Israel.

    Here's the full passage on the 2w:

    Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
    Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
    Rev 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
    Rev 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
    Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
    Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
    Rev 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
    Rev 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
    Rev 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
    Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
    Rev 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

    Where does it say they preach to Israel, especially to convert unbelieving Jews to Christ?
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 year

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Sometimes a Thread gives rise to another pertinent topic that often requires that it is discussed independently. Therefore, as an offshoot of an ongoing OP, I am compelled to ask; will the 3.5 years of the Antichrist run concurrent or consecutive to the 1260 days of the Two Witnesses? Some posit that there's only one 3.5 years in the end-times, thus pitying the Beast and the 2Ws in the same timescale. I don't think it is true.

    I am personally of the opinion that Israel has to hear the preaching of the Witnesses before their flight into the desert given that it is the same 1260 days (Rev 12:6) they will stay in the wilderness that the 2Ws will preach in Jerusalem.

    What is your opinion?
    When the Gentiles/ nations receive the outer court at the start of the 2 witnesses 1260 days, is this due to:
    the breaking of a covenant
    or making of a covenant?

    Or both?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Sometimes a Thread gives rise to another pertinent topic that often requires that it is discussed independently. Therefore, as an offshoot of an ongoing OP, I am compelled to ask; will the 3.5 years of the Antichrist run concurrent or consecutive to the 1260 days of the Two Witnesses? Some posit that there's only one 3.5 years in the end-times, thus pitying the Beast and the 2Ws in the same timescale. I don't think it is true.

    I am personally of the opinion that Israel has to hear the preaching of the Witnesses before their flight into the desert given that it is the same 1260 days (Rev 12:6) they will stay in the wilderness that the 2Ws will preach in Jerusalem.

    What is your opinion?
    When the Gentiles/ nations receive the outer court at the start of the 2 witnesses 1260 days, is this due to:
    the breaking of a covenant
    or making of a covenant?

    Or both?

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