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Thread: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 years?

  1. #106
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    Re: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 year

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    To all on this thread, the woman cannot be Israel or the church and or "peoples", and Mary for that matter. Man cannot flee heaven to earth.
    Where does the woman give birth?

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Daniel not only says the beast was slain but that the judgement comes before he is cast in the LOF.
    Don't change the subject.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 year

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Daniel not only says the beast was slain but that the judgement comes before he is cast in the LOF.

    Dan 7
    9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
    10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

    THEN the beast is cast into the LOF upon judgement after being slain.

    11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
    Yes....the Anti-Christ and False Prophet will be Judged WHILST those who died refusing the Mark of the Beast are Judged {Rev. 20:4 matches the Daniel scriptures}. The rest of the Wicked are judged in 1000 years.

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    Re: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 year

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    Yes....the Anti-Christ and False Prophet will be Judged
    That's like saying Satan and the Devil will be judged as if they are two different people.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 year

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Where does the woman give birth?
    Heaven.


    Child first in heaven then flees to earth.

    5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
    6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

    But that is a moot point. The woman starts in heaven and then ends up on earth. The birth would only matter for who the man child would be.


    Again, the woman cannot be any person or persons. For people do not flee heaven to earth. The woman is a city and yes cities do come down from heaven as example with NJ.

  5. #110
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    Re: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 year

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post

    Heaven.


    Child first in heaven then flees to earth.
    Scripture doesn't say anyone flees to the Earth. The child is born then is caught UP unto God proving the woman gave birth on the Earth, not in heaven.


    5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
    6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

    But that is a moot point. The woman starts in heaven and then ends up on earth. The birth would only matter for who the man child would be.
    The woman wasn't in heaven.

    Again, the woman cannot be any person or persons. For people do not flee heaven to earth.
    No one is claiming that except you. "Child first in heaven then flees to earth." How did Christ flee heaven to Earth after being born in heaven?
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 year

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    The woman wasn't in heaven.
    1. John says she is in heaven.
    2. A third of the stars seen in heaven around her are cast to earth
    3. There is a war in Heaven with Michael and angels. Does this not happen in heaven?
    4. The dragon is in heaven cast to earth.
    5. Voices heard in heaven as the accuser (dragon) is cast DOWN.

    Where is she if not in heaven?

    Scripture doesn't say anyone flees to the Earth.
    I understand you have to maintain this position for the man child to be Jesus and the woman Mary but clearly the woman flees heaven to the wilderness which is earth.

    So then if you think she was never in heaven but located somewhere on this earth she flees from somewhere on this earth to a wilderness on this earth?

    The child is born then is caught UP unto God proving the woman gave birth on the Earth, not in heaven.
    I may concede the birth takes place on earth as I see IS 66 describing the man child.

    6 A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the Lord that rendereth recompence to his enemies.
    7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.
    8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

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    Re: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 year

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    1. John says she is in heaven.
    The vision is seen in heaven...it's not literal. He also says she is wearing the sun...she would die before giving birth if that was literal.

    Where is she if not in heaven?
    Earth. That's why her son has to go UP to God in heaven. He was born on the Earth so his mother was on the Earth.



    I understand you have to maintain this position for the man child to be Jesus and the woman Mary but clearly the woman flees heaven to the wilderness which is earth.
    It is Jesus being born.

    So then if you think she was never in heaven but located somewhere on this earth she flees from somewhere on this earth to a wilderness on this earth?
    It's not literal fleeing to a wilderness.

    I may concede the birth takes place on earth as I see IS 66 describing the man child.
    Awesome.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 year

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    The vision is seen in heaven...it's not literal. He also says she is wearing the sun...she would die before giving birth if that was literal.
    So then the dragon is not in heaven? The war does not happen in heaven? The voices are not from heaven? Nothing is cast down??

    Sure there is imagery that is not literal but has literal meaning and does not take away where these events are taking place. HEAVEN.

    That's why her son has to go UP to God in heaven. He was born on the Earth so his mother was on the Earth. It is Jesus being born
    .

    The woman is not Mary..oh boy.

    When did this happen to Mary?

    6 where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

    And this?

    14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

    And this?

    15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
    16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

    The woman can't be Mary for many reasons, but also a 3.5 year period occurs right after she flees. Are you sayin the 3.5 year period already occurred?


    It's not literal fleeing to a wilderness.
    6 And the woman fled into the wilderness

    The world has become a literal wilderness.

    16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
    17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

  9. #114
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    Re: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 year

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    My position is that they need to remain in Jerusalem to hear the Gospel prior to their flight. I want to believe that those who gave glory to the God of heaven (Rev 11:13) are those who believed after the end of the Witnesses ministry. For me, timing is important and it makes sense that they thus flee thereafter. But RevelationMan has given me some tips to enable me study this some more before I can take any conclusive position.
    Great I'm glad you are open to new ideas. The chapter about the witnesses does not state who they testify or prophesy to, it is not necessarily the woman.

  10. #115
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    Re: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 year

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Scripture says that the woman/Israel Rev 12:6 will take refuge in the desert for 1260 days, the same number of days that 2Ws will preach. So explain how this fits into the time of the Witnesses? Bear in mind, that the Gospel of the 2Ws leads Israel to repentance. So did Israel repent and flee after the death of the Witnesses or did they believe the moment the Witnesses showed up and fled to Petra while the 2Ws continued to preach in Jerusalem?

    Secondly, the heart of this discussion is not about the return of Jesus in relation to the time of the Witnesses, rather it's how the 1260 days of the 2Ws align with the Beast's 3.5 years? Are they concurrent or consecution? Let's keep the return of Jesus out for now since there's no controversy that he returns at the end of the Beast's 3.5 years to defeat him at Armageddon.
    The return of Jesus is relevant because it gives us the TIMING of the resurrection of the two witnesses. Immediately prior to the second coming. This forces an overlap between the 1260 days of the witnesses and the 1260 days of the beast, both ending with the second coming.

    You say that the Gospel of the two witnesses leads Israel to repentance. Where do you get that from? I see Israel only repenting on the day of the Lord, during the attack of the northern army according to Joel 2. The witnesses are already dead then for 3.5 days, so yes I do agree that their repentance occurs after the witnesses have preached, which doesn't contradict my view.

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    Re: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 year

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    The return of Jesus is relevant because it gives us the TIMING of the resurrection of the two witnesses. Immediately prior to the second coming. This forces an overlap between the 1260 days of the witnesses and the 1260 days of the beast, both ending with the second coming.

    You say that the Gospel of the two witnesses leads Israel to repentance. Where do you get that from? I see Israel only repenting on the day of the Lord, during the attack of the northern army according to Joel 2. The witnesses are already dead then for 3.5 days, so yes I do agree that their repentance occurs after the witnesses have preached, which doesn't contradict my view.
    The Day of the Lord is when Jesus opens the Seals, which bring all the Seal, Trumpet and Vial judgments to pass.

    Let me ask you something, does this verse below mean Jesus was going to return SHORTLY {or immediately} ?

    Rev. 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

    So was these visions to COME TO PASS SHORTLY ? Was Jesus supposed to return shortly or immediately here ? It's the exact same word used in Rev. 11. It means when Jesus returns he does so in a FLASH, or in a short period of time. {like the blink of an eye, after all Jesus is God}.

    The Day of the Lord is the Seals being opened.

    Malachi 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord: 6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

    So the Two-witnesses show up BEFORE Jesus opens the Seals {DOTL} to turn Israel/Jews back unto God. What good would it do to turn them back unto God after the Day of the Lord starts on day 1260 ? Who is going to "GATHER" to listen to preaching when you are being hunted down like dogs to be killed ? Right away, the Beast is going to demand worship or death, he's not going to allow them to gather and listen to preaching, he can't harm the Two-witnesses, but he can harm anyone trying to listen to them.

    The Jews are turned unto God BEFORE the Day of the Lord, that is why they are given a sign to Flee Judea 1290 days before the Second Coming, so they will have time to flee to a place God has prepared for "1260 days" once they get there, it matches the time that the Beast is in power, thus they are to be protected in the Petra/Bozrah area of Jordan for the exact same 1260 days that he rules over Jerusalem, the Mediterranean Sea Region and eventually the whole world. They aren't even in Jerusalem while he is in control of Jerusalem, that is when they are Fleeing or "in flight on eagles wings" between the 1290 and the 1260.

    People ask, well how is it that the 1/3 of the Jews repent so swiftly when the Two-witnesses show up ? Well it is Moses {I assume} amd Elijah come again, they were chosen for this task for a reason. They will have "SPECIAL POWERS" so to speak from the Holy Spirit, the Jews will be receptive because they see what is happening before their very eyes all around the world. They understand that ALL the Christians died at once and the "world" called it a plague of sorts or some freak disease, but they probably are thinking to themselves "that must have been the Rapture", and it will happen like that.

    So the Jews are in need of a "Savior" so to speak, they are desperate, they see a build up that makes Hitler's build up look meek by comparison. There are no Christians left on earth, so its total nut-jobs on earth, or those few Gentiles who were caught napping in "their sins" {Paul tells us to STAY WOKE, don't Sleep, as in stay in Christ} and thus will have to repent after the Rapture and thus become the Martyrs under the 5th Seal/the Remnant [Church] in Rev. 12:17, or else accept the Mark of the Beast.

    Zechariah 12:2 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem. 3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.


    Zechariah 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. 11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.

    In Zechariah 13:8-9 we see 1/3 of the Jews REPENT...............In Zechariah 14:1-2, we see the Day of the Lord comes and the Anti-Christ Conquers Jerusalem. Then in verses 3 and 4 God destroys them {Armageddon}.

    The Two-witnesses show up BEFORE the Day of the Lord and Israel repents BEFORE the DOTL. They then flee to a place prepared for 1260 days in Petra/Bozrah.

    We know where this place is via the Scriptures.

    In Daniel 11:40-43 the Anti-Christ Conquers all of North Africa, Israel, and all of the Mediterranean Sea region, SAVE Southern Jordan.

    Dan. 11:40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over. 41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.

    42 He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape. 43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps.

    The Black BOLD shows the nations he Conquers, the RED BOLD shows Nations that God doesn't allow him to Conquer, those three cited in verse 41 are SOUTHERN Jordan today.

    Other passages that show us where Israel will flee unto.

    My online go to Hebrew Massotite bible below:

    I will surely y622 z8800 assemble, 622 z8799 O Ya`kv יַעֲקֹב, 3290 all x3605 of thee; I will surely y6908 z8763 gather 6908 z8762 the remnant 7611 of Yi$rl יִשׂרָאֵל; 3478 I will put 7760 z8799 them together 3162 as the sheep 6629 of Boxr בָּצרָה, 1223 z8677 y1224 as the flock 5739 in the midst 8432 of their fold: 1699 they shall make great noise 1949 z8686 by reason of [the multitude of] men. 120 x4480

    Boxra 1223 means 1) enclosure, fold, sheepfold (AV - Bozrah)

    —Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)


    #1223.
    בָּצְרָה
    botsrah (131b); from 1219; an enclosure, a fold (for sheep):—

    —NAS Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible with Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek Dictionaries


    Wikipedia: History in Biblical Narrative
    Bozrah means "sheepfold" and was a pastoral city in Edom southeast of the Dead Sea. According to the biblical narrative it was the capital city of Edom and the homeland of Jacob's twin brother, Esau:

    Micah 2:12 I will surely assemble, O Jacob, all of thee; I will surely gather the remnant of Israel; I will put them together as the sheep of Bozrah, as the flock in the midst of their fold: they shall make great noise by reason of the multitude of men.

    God is going to PROTECT Israel in the Bozrah/Petra area, a Natural SHEEP FOLD......There is none better than the city of Petra but its not the only place, God protects the Jews in the whole Mountain range it seems.


    82c8faeb23e58afd84dea480f441a0ca--psalm--isaiah-.jpg

    edom.jpg

    b7ea4e0d5fb13b76f62eaed4fe13a2fc.gif

    So as we can see here {if the Maps actually show up}, the Bozrah/Petra area is where the Jews Flee to, there is a natural protective aspect to this place, which is why God uses it to protect his flock, Israel.

    According to Isaiah 63:1–6, the Lord will come from Edom (modern-day Jordan) and Bozrah in blood-stained clothing on "the day of vengeance" and "the year of My redeemed" (cf. Revelation 19:13: He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood).[2]

    According to one Christian interpretation of Micah 2:12–13, Bozrah, (or a place the Bible cryptically refers to as Bozrah), will also be the scene of a magnificent "break-out" of God's covenant people. According to this interpretation, the deliverance will come at an Edomite controlled place of exile and incarceration in the End times. This epic event referred to in Micah 2:12–13 has been referred to by Dr Gavin Finley as "the Bozrah deliverance". Bozrah is in Hebrew, but most translators render it as "fold"—sheep in the fold. This "break-out" could be tied to Zechariah 14:1–5, when Yahweh fights against the nations, stands on the Mount of Olives (east of Jerusalem), and splits the Mount in two as a valley, so that the remnant of Israel trapped in Jerusalem can escape those who would kill them. If so, Micah 2:12–13 would not relate to the locale of Bozrah.

    Jesus comes from "THE EASTERN SKIES". Jesus lands on Mt. Zion with the 144,000 {the Jews who Flee unto Petra}, therefore some see his path as this BELOW, {I haven't studied this in depth, so I am just putting it out there for others to study}. I do think he comes from the Eastern Skies and brings the 144,000 {All Jews} in Petra/Bozrah with him, but here is a map how some see it BELOW.

    Revelation-Wrath-Path.jpg

    There are other verses in the bible that point to where the Jews will flee unto, this is long enough for now and should suffice anyway.

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    Re: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 year

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    The woman starts in heaven and goes from heaven to earth. Are you saying she is not or never was in heaven??

    Again how can people flee from heaven to earth? Again the woman are not "peoples"
    If you say, brother.....

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    Re: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 year

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    The Day of the Lord is when Jesus opens the Seals, which bring all the Seal, Trumpet and Vial judgments to pass.
    The day of the Lord is the 2nd coming. The sun is darkened ect…..so then is the sun darkened during all seal, trumpets and vials? No.

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    Re: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 year

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    I understand. I have a timeline for Revelation via each chapter worked out to a tee. That, plus God showing me what the 1260, 1290 ad 1335 meant made it all come together.

    Only when I understood that only the chapters that speak about the Seal, Trumpets and Vials are the whole 3.5 years combined, did I understand the other chapters were sub-set chapters, each with a theme, and each happened sometime during the Seal, Trump and Vial chapters.

    Rev. 11 {Two-Witnesses}
    Rev. 12 {Israel Fleeing}
    ReV. 13 {The Beast ad False Prophet arising}
    Rev. 14 {The Three Harvests}
    Rev. 17 {The Harlot or False Religion being destroyed}
    Rev. 18 {Babylon or The World being hit with the Seal, Trumpet and Vial Plagues}
    Rev. 19 {The Church in Heaven, marrying the Lamb, Returning with the Lamb to Armageddon or the Marriage Supper}

    Its like trying to draw a conclusion on what............srurjvoisweasouas means, we have to first unjumble it, then it makes sense.....Jesus is our Savior.



    Genesis 37:9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.

    The Sun, Moon and Stars are Israel. It's not in Heaven brother.
    With regards to the Book of Revelation, you have a certain gift of unravelling the hidden mysteries even though, like everyone else, you are not always 100% correct. But alas, when you're on point, the brilliance of your exegesis is breathtaking. I am particularly impressed with your interpretation of the days [1335 & 1290] in Daniel 12 and how they relate to the eschaton. These numbers have caused a lot of scholars to stumble. With the information you have provided, I now the requisite tool to facilitate my studies to see if all ties up neatly in the end.

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    Re: Will the 2 Witnesses 1260 days run concurrent or consecutive to the AC's 3.5 year

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    That's like saying Satan and the Devil will be judged as if they are two different people.
    Of course, Satan and the False Prophet are different people.

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