Page 2 of 17 FirstFirst 12345678910111213 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 241

Thread: The Timing of Events

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    14,382
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: The Timing of Events

    Quote Originally Posted by 6paths View Post
    2 witnesses rise into heaven Rev 11:11-12 - God's intervention - raising them from the dead - which keeps world from destroying itself Matt 24:22
    2 witnesses are the 144,000, first fruits of God's harvest Rev 14:4 Only the 2 witnesses have been raised from the dead and have gone to heaven (first fruits)
    Only the two prophets rise from the dead and go up to heaven, not 144k prophets.

    The 144k are likely part or all of those alive and remaining who are raptured up to the clouds of Earth (not to heaven).
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    14,382
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: The Timing of Events

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    God intervenes in the great tribulation by causing the 2 witnesses to rise from the dead into heaven.
    Only the two prophets rise from the dead to heaven not the "two witnesses" which is said to be two candlesticks/churches and two olive trees/anointed prophets. Nothing in Rev says two churches of people are killed then resurrected into heaven.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    218

    Re: The Timing of Events

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    End times sequence:
    A biblically supported and logical series of events as prophesied in our Bibles:

    THE PAST AGES, the first 5 seals opened, the 4 horsemen released and persecution started, from the murder of Stephen until the Return. Luke 21:9-11
    1/ The present day, Wars, rumours of wars, natural disasters, economic problems, food shortages, overpopulation, false teaching, etc, etc. Matthew 24:4-8
    But what is worse, is the rejection of a Creator God and our civilization is once again as in the days of Noah. Matthew 24:37-39, 2 Peter 3:1-7
    I agree that would be world conquerors (seal 1) have caused war, (seal 2) famine (seal 3), and pestilence (seal 4). In my opinion, Christians (Martyrs of seal 5) have prevented these would be world conquerors from gaining world prominence like Babylon, Media-Persia, Greece, and Rome. These would be world conquerors have been limited to 1/4 of the earth.

    When Israel conquered Jerusalem and then gave it back, it was a sin similar to the 1st century rejection of Jesus; and a price will be paid.

    2/ The great and terrible day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath, the Sixth Seal, Revelation 6:12-17, will be a Coronal Mass Ejection, a sunstrike. Isaiah 30:26. Resulting in a worldwide disaster, but the Middle East is completely cleared and cleansed: Psalms 83, Deuteronomy 32:34-43, Amos 1, but a small Jewish remnant will survive in Jerusalem. Isaiah 6:11-13 Many will die elsewhere: Isaiah 17:4-10, but most will survive and eventually re establish the infrastructure. Isaiah 2:12-21, 2 Peter 3:7 & 10 [/QUOTE]

    In my opinion, the sixth seal shows the time of God's wrath as the time that starts immediately after the great tribulation, through the great day (last day) of God's wrath.
    When the one who sits on the throne comes to earth (God the Father), there is an earthquake. When Jesus comes, there is hail.
    Either of these signs signals the end of Gentile reign on earth and the beginning of the millennial kingdom.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    The Seventh seal is 'about' a 15 to 20 year time gap on earth, from the Sixth Seal until the Return of Jesus.
    The elders sing a new song in heaven whenever something new happens on earth. They sing about creation Rev 4:10-11. They sing about redemption Rev 5:9-10. They sing about the reign of God the Father Rev 11:16-17. They could not learn the song of the 144,000, the first to be raised from the dead and ascend into heaven. The 144,000 are the 2 witnesses who were also the first to be raised from the dead and ascend into heaven. While the 2 witnesses/144,000 are being raised, no songs, silence in heaven for 1/2 hour.

    Timing wise, the earthquake that occurs when the 2 witnesses are raised from the dead is the same earthquake as the one that starts the 6th seal. This is the end of the great tribulation. This is God's intervention that keeps mankind from complete destruction. Everything after this is part of the wrath of God.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    3/ The Lord’s people: every faithful Christian, gather in the new nation of Beulah. Isaiah 62:4, Revelation 7:9 They live in peace and security and 144,000 missionaries are selected from them, to go out to all peoples and preach the coming Kingdom of Jesus. Revelation 14:1-6, Isaiah 66:19
    In my opinion, the 144,000 will be the last of those who die and go to heaven during the great tribulation. The 144,000 will be different than the rest because they will already have their spiritual body together with their raised physical body. All who die and go to heaven during the great tribulation are pictured here.

    This is part of a story that goes from Rev 7:1 -8:5. Rev 8:5 pictures the throne of God and an earthquake, which occurs at the end of the period of God's wrath. This is not a picture of revival. It is a picture of martyrdom.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    4/ A One World Government is formed, led by ten Presidents. Before long three will be taken over and the other seven will confer their power onto another strong leader. Daniel 7:24-25, Revelation 17:12-14
    This is the government of Rev 13.
    The before long time is the midpoint of the 7 years.
    10 nations will still be part of this kingdom. Three of them will just have 3 different leaders.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    5/ A Northern confederation, led by a person referred to as Gog, will be motivated to attack Beulah – an unprotected land, of great wealth. They will be totally wiped out and it takes seven years to bury them and clean the land. Ezekiel 38 & 39, Joel 2:20
    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    6/ The strong leader of the World Government, will make a seven year treaty with Beulah. This marks the commencement of the seventieth ‘week’ [seven years] of Daniel. There is a 3˝ year period of calm and peace in the world. Daniel 9:27
    After the antichrist has taken power over Israel and Egypt and is threatening Ethiopia and Libya, another coalition will come against him Dan 11:43, including Ethiopia, Libya, and Iran. Parts of Ez 38-39 seem to take place after the 1,000 year reign.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    7/ The world dictator comes to Jerusalem in force and declares himself to be god in the new Temple. This starts the Great Tribulation of the trumpet and bowl judgements. The ‘Woman’- faithful Christians, are taken to a safe place on earth for 1260 days. Zechariah 14:2, Revelation 12:14
    8/ The Glorious Return of Jesus. The battle of Armageddon. The final gathering of all the Lord’s people, all those who have kept faithful. Then the 1000 year Millennium reign.[/QUOTE]

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    9/ The final attack and the armies are instantly cremated. Satan into the lake of fire.
    The Great White Throne judgement, New Heaven and New Earth. Revelation 21

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Thames, New Zealand
    Posts
    2,342
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: The Timing of Events

    The mistake in your end times belief is evident, 6paths, from the way you place the Sixth Seal after the Great Tribulation.
    To do this means shuffling the given sequence of Revelation. Not a good idea and It is plain to anyone that in order to open a scroll, the seals must be opened first.

    Nowhere does the Bible say the 144,000 are martyred and go to heaven, This is not their fate, they are the people who will proclaim the coming Kingdom to the world. Isaiah 66:19 Not the angel as Rev 14:6-7 describes in an allegory for them. Luke 10:1-10 is the precursor for them.

    For sure: the next few years are going to be interesting!

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    218

    Re: The Timing of Events

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    The context of Ephesians 1:13 is verses 13-14.

    13 "In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
    14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession
    , unto the praise of his glory."


    1. The Saints at Ephesus, a Church, BELIEVED
    2. The SEAL is the Holy Spirit which they received by FAITH because of a Promise (Jn.7:39)
    3. The Holy Spirit dwells in our human spirits (Jn.3:6)
    4. The SEAL in the "earnest" or "guarantee" in our spirits of the future resurrection of the body by the same Holy Spirit (Rom.8:11)

    Let us compare it with Revelation 7:3-4 and 9:4;
    3 "Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
    4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. ...
    4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads."
    I agree with everything to this point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    1. The recipients are Israelites - not a Church
    2. ALL Israel is concluded by God to be in UNBELIEF (Rom.11:32)
    3. The SEAL is on the forehead
    4. The SEAL is so that the mechanisms of the Great Tribulation does not HURT these Israelites

    Although both have a SEAL, they are totally different entities.
    Are you saying that Israelites can not accept Jesus and become part of his church? What are Messianic Jews?
    Romans 11:32 says that everybody is concluded by God to unbelief, both Jews and Gentiles, and that without God's mercy, nobody would be saved.
    Even if this is a physical seal on the forehead, it is only an outward sign of belief in Jesus. Outward signs such as seals or circumcision are not as important as what they symbolize.
    In Rev 9:4, I think it means that Christians are not yet in range to be targeted. They will be by the next trumpet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    Concerning the two groups of 144,000 ...
    • The 144,000 of Chapter 7 are Israelites - the 144,000 of Chapter 14 are "redeemed from among men"
    • The 144,000 of 7 have a SEAL in their foreheads - those of 14 the Father's Name
    • Those of 7 are on earth - those of 14 are where the 24 Elders and 4 Beasts are - heaven (see Chapter 4)
    • Israel rejected the Lamb - those of 14 are "with" the Lamb
    • Those of 7 are SEALED to protect them from things on the earth - those of 14 are "redeemed FROM the earth"
    • Those 7 are not firstfruits - those of 14 are. This is a big difference for Christians who are "begotten" only are firstfruits (Jas.1:18)
    • Israel hates and reviles Jesus - those of 14 "have no guile in their mouths"
    • Israel murdered the Prince of Life - those of 14 are "without fault"

    Again, these must be two totally different groups. The common number of 144,000 is a compound number indicating a REPRESENTATIVE REMNANT OF GOD'S PEOPLE. 12 is the number of God's People. The 144,000 of Chapter 7 are the Remnant of Israel promised in Deuteronomy 30:1-5 and Romans 9:27 and 11:5. The 144,000 of Chapter 14 are the Overcomers of the Church. One is on earth and faces the Great Tribulation but is sealed to protect them. The other has no need of protection. They are in heaven (after rapture) and miss the Great Tribulation.
    What you see as differences, I see as a progression. In Rev 7, the 144,000 are newborn babes in Christ. In Rev 11, the 2 witnesses/144,000 are given power as were the apostles. In Rev 11 and 14, the 2 witnesses/144,000 are raised from the dead and ascended into heaven. In both Rev 11 and 14, these are the only people since Jesus who have been given this privilege. These are the first part of the total harvest. These are the first to be resurrected, then raptured into heaven. The full harvest to be resurrected, then raptured into heaven comes later in Rev 14.

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    A "Candlestick" in Parable is "Testimony of light" (Matt.5:15). The Churches are God's testimony on earth, but if they apostatize themselves then they lose this status (Rev.2:5). The Two Candlesticks are simply Two Witnesses testifying for God in Jerusalem when Israel allow a Gentile king into the Holy of Holies.
    The 2 witnesses and the 144,000 both testify for God because they are the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    Revelation 9:4 does not mention Christians. On the contrary, Revelation 13:7 says that they are overcome in war by the Beast.
    Those who have the seal of God are Christians. Christians are overcome in war by the Beast. The great numbers of Christians who are killed by the Beast during the Great Tribulation are seen in Rev 7.

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Thames, New Zealand
    Posts
    2,342
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: The Timing of Events

    Quote Originally Posted by 6paths View Post

    Those who have the seal of God are Christians. Christians are overcome in war by the Beast. The great numbers of Christians who are killed by the Beast during the Great Tribulation are seen in Rev 7.
    Revelation 7 does not say anyone is killed.
    This is added to make a false theory work, the very pretentious notion that people can go to live in heaven.

    The vast multitude seen by John in verse 9, are living people, on earth; in Jerusalem. They are every faithful Christian, who will migrate to the holy Land, soon after the Sixth Seal devastation has cleared and cleansed the entire Middle East area. Ezekiel 34:11-16, Isaiah 35:1-10, Romans 9:24-26
    Jesus will be revealed to them, 2 Thess 1:6-10, Revelation 14:1 and He will select the 144,000 out from among them.

    This is a Biblically correct and logical scenario. It doesn't rely on fantasies or adds anything to scripture.

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    218

    Re: The Timing of Events

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    The Anti-Christ makes Agreements (Covenant Dan. 9:27) with MANY Nations and Israel, then in the Middle of the 70th week he reneges or breaches these contractual Agreements, and he then starts CONQUERING (Seal #1 says he goes forth to Conquer). So he a Presidential Leader of the E.U. before he starts Conquering. He only becomes the Beast at the Midway point. The First Four Seals are the Anti-Christs coming reign of terror, the 5th Seal is a testimony of his brute wickedness against the Remnant Church and others, but Seal 5 is only about the Saints/Martyrs.
    I agree that Anti-Christ makes an agreement with many nations, including Israel, but at the time of the agreement, he is probably something like a secretary of state.
    I agree that in the middle of the week he breeches the agreement and starts conquering, and that war, famine and pestilence will result from his actions; along with Martyrdom.
    The difference we have here is that Anti-Christ is just the last in a long line of conquerors. He is not the first. When Anti-Christ comes, death will not be limited to 1/4 of the earth as have all conquerors since Rome. Anti-Christ will have power over all the earth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    He can't rule the World until he starts his Conquest, but he can be he E.U. President for years before that, and of course for the first 3.5 years of Peace. He can't be the Beast however but for 42 Months. So he starts ruling as THE BEAST on day 1261, not day one, the Midway point is the fulcrum point, not day one. The 144, 000 or Jews Flee Judea and are protected by God for how long ? 1260 days (42 months). Israel does repent BEFORE the Day of the Lord, which starts with the First Seal. The Jews as a Nation don't repent until the Two-witnesses show up, which is just before the DOTL.
    I agree that the Beast starts ruling at the midway point, whether day 1260 or 1261.
    This is when the Jews flee for 1260 days, during which time they are nourished (probably physically and spiritually). The Jews as a Nation repent when the 2 witnesses rise from the dead. This is the end of the 7 years. This is when Jews take Jerusalem back from the Beast. This is the end of the Great Tribulation and the beginning of God's wrath.
    The DOTL, the day of Jesus return is the last day or the great day of God's wrath, the end of the 7 bowls of God's wrath.

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    The number 12 represents Fullness, thus 12 x 12,000 = Fullness or ALL ISRAEL. We know only 1/3 repent via Zechariah 13:8-9, but Isaiah says (and Paul quotes him) that ALL Israel will be saved. We know not every Jew however repents, likewise, 144,000 stands for FULLNESS, every Jew who repents = ALL Israel, because the Nation is this preserved, just as God promised Abraham, he would have a perpetual seed forever. There are no lost tribes, the Jews represent every tribe, when the Northern Kingdoms were taken away each tribe had men living in Jerusalem, thus there has always been seed from every tribe, they just all became known as Jews. Remember the TWO STICKS Prophecy by Ezekiel ? God said that his two nations would become one, well they did, a long time ago, no use in looking for lost tribes, the seeds of all 12 were never lost. So the Jews who Flee are the 144,000 or 12 x 12,000, its a Metaphor. NOTICE that God holds up on Breaking the 7th Seal which brings the Trumpet Judgments until AFTER the 144,000 (Fleeing Jews) have been SEALED (make it the protected zone of the Petra/Bozrah area), then God allows the Trumpet Judgments to fall on mankind. That is why it says to hold back from hurting the Earth, Sea and Trees..........that is what the Trumpet Judgments do. See how the Fleeing Jews would fit i right here ?
    I think that it is the army of the 6th trumpet that is used to give Anti-Christ his power at the midpoint of the 7 years.
    The throne of God the Father causes an earthquake in Rev 8:5. This is the end of the story from 7:1 - 8:5. The trumpets start a whole new story that ends in 11:19 with the same throne of God the Father causing an earthquake and the hail that Jesus brings on the great day of God's wrath.
    See how these stories in Revelation may have different beginnings, but they all end when God comes!

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    This is he ideas of men, I read them 30 years go, but its just not scriptural brother. The MIXING PART is speaking about how after the Fourth Beast received a Mortal Wound via the Church via the Church Age (gates of hell can not overcome the Church), Satan will try to reconstitute thos flailing kingdom again and again. The Royals (seed of men) tried to intermarry and reunite Europe many times, bt to no avail, I think that is what the SEEDS OF MEN passage means. Satan also tried to reconstitute the Roman Empire vir War, through Charlemagne and Hitler etc. etc., to no avail.
    These 10 mixed nations do form the final empire.
    I agree that Satan has been trying to bring about another empire and he will when the time is right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    The Anti-Christ will be born in Greece, but he comes to power in the E.U. (Brussels I guess) and thus he starts Conquering the Mediterranean Sea Region, the 10 Kings FREELY GIVE their power unto him, it seems three try to back out. Rev. 17:16 is the 10 Kings in league with the Beast DESTROYING the Harlot. The Harlot = All False Religions, so the Destroy Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism etc. all Religions, after all, this Man will demand to be Worshiped as the ONLY GOD !! No other religions will therefore be allowed to survive, the Harlot is the False Religions that will all be JUDGED by God in Rev. ch. 17.
    The Harlot is always described as "great city." It is never described as anything else. The great city that was ruling when John wrote the Revelation was Rome.
    The king was "married" to the great city. In Rev 18:7, the great harlot is saying that her king will never die. Doesn't it make more sense that the city's king will never die, than the false religion will never die?

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    The Great City he SAW in the vision (verses 4-6) was Babylon stamped on the Harlots head. In days of old Harlots had their name on a headband to announce to their prospective customers whom they were. The HARLOT had four names on her Head of Harlotry, she was associated with ot known by being a 1. Mystery 2. Babylon the Great 3. Mother of Harlots 4. Abominations of the Earth. These DESCRIBED HER, who she was so we can understand who she is, God ha STAMPED A NAME on her forehead, its up to us to figure out who she is via all the clues we are given.

    Mystery = Mysticism or Mystery Religions, you know all the false gods came from Babylon they just changed names, they all had the Sun God, Moon God and resurrected Son of God in every one of them, starting with Nimrod, Semiramis and Tammuz. Babylon is the City assocIated with False Religions (Horoscope etc. etc.), Semiramis was the Mother of Harlotry or False Religions, and of course God sees all worshiping of ANY god but Him as a Abomination. So let's ADD IT ALL UP......................Her name tag on her head stands for All False Religion of ALL TIME !! Its not Rome brother, its False Religion that is Destroyed ad Judged, the Harlot is Judged because God puts it in their hearts to judge, see the very next verse......Rev. 17:17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
    In the days of the Roman Empire, Rome was the great city that ruled over the kings of the earth. Rome was a great harlot.
    In the days of the Babylonian Empire, Babylon was the great city that ruled over the earth. Babylon was a great harlot.
    The last great harlot or great city will cause other cities to kill Christians. That is why she is the mother of harlots. Killing (the blood of) Christians is the wine of her fornication.

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    The Anti-Christ wants to be God SO BAD he destroys all religions except Beast Worship, which God/Jesus will destroy himself at Armageddon, Amen.
    I agree with this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    The Harlot is ALL FALSE RELIGION.

    The Beast (Scarlet Colored Beast) that WAS......IS NOT.....YET IS.....is Apollyon, the Beast from the Bottomless Pit.
    The scarlet beast is Satan powered. Apollyon is under Satanic authority and will be the local spiritual authority that gives rise to the human authority.
    Geographically, I believe the Beast will be a return of Seluecia.


    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    All of the NUMBERS in Dan. 12 are a set number of days UNTIL THESE WONDERS END {Second Coming}. Thus they are all reversed from how we have been trained to think. The 1335 comes first, the 1290 next, then the 1260....THINK ABOUT IT...Why would Jesus tell the Jews to Flee 30 days after the Beast Conquers Jerusalem ? He doesn't, Jesus gives them a MARKER/Sign to flee 30 days before the Beast Conquers Jerusalem, the False Prophet {High Priest} places the IMAGE of the Beast in the Temple (Rev. 13). That is the sign to Flee Judea.
    I gave this a second look since you mentioned it, but I don't see how the numbers could be reversed.
    Rev 12:7 When the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, I believe is a reference to the death of the 2 witnesses, the only ones who could not be killed for a while.
    I am not sure what happens 30 days after the 7 years, day 1290. Maybe it takes that long to drive antichrist out of Jerusalem for good.
    My guess is that the time of God's wrath, which begins at the end of the 7 years, will end 75 days later on day 1335.

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    218

    Re: The Timing of Events

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    Thank you for your time and effort to answer. I grant you your view, and will let the reader judge. They can compare my proofs with yours and we can all learn. Is that in order?
    That is why we post. There were a lot of smaller threads at the time of this posting that I thought a general overview could clear up.

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    218

    Re: The Timing of Events

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Only the two prophets rise from the dead and go up to heaven, not 144k prophets.

    The 144k are likely part or all of those alive and remaining who are raptured up to the clouds of Earth (not to heaven).
    I consider Rev 14:1-5 to be a scene in heaven. Don't you?
    Why would the last part of those alive and remaining who are raptured be called first fruits?

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    218

    Re: The Timing of Events

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Only the two prophets rise from the dead to heaven not the "two witnesses" which is said to be two candlesticks/churches and two olive trees/anointed prophets. Nothing in Rev says two churches of people are killed then resurrected into heaven.
    Why would you make a distinction between the 2 prophets and the 2 witnesses?

  11. #26
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Clanton Alabama
    Posts
    1,088

    Re: The Timing of Events

    Quote Originally Posted by 6paths View Post
    I agree that Anti-Christ makes an agreement with many nations, including Israel, but at the time of the agreement, he is probably something like a secretary of state.
    I agree that in the middle of the week he breeches the agreement and starts conquering, and that war, famine and pestilence will result from his actions; along with Martyrdom.
    The difference we have here is that Anti-Christ is just the last in a long line of conquerors. He is not the first. When Anti-Christ comes, death will not be limited to 1/4 of the earth as have all conquerors since Rome. Anti-Christ will have power over all the earth.
    Hes the President of E.U. at the time more than likely if hes making Agreements. Satan's not dumb, hes going to give the guy a chance to learn the ropes and make friends so they can TRUST HIM, then he double crosses them. The PEACE is a part of his reign, see Dan. 8:24-25. But hes not REVEALED as the Beast until day 1261, from 1261 to 2520 us 1260 days.

    I agree that the Beast starts ruling at the midway point, whether day 1260 or 1261.
    This is when the Jews flee for 1260 days, during which time they are nourished (probably physically and spiritually). The Jews as a Nation repent when the 2 witnesses rise from the dead. This is the end of the 7 years. This is when Jews take Jerusalem back from the Beast. This is the end of the Great Tribulation and the beginning of God's wrath.
    The DOTL, the day of Jesus return is the last day or the great day of God's wrath, the end of the 7 bowls of God's wrath.
    The Jews Repent when Elijah is sent back BEFORE the DOTL...................Malachi 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord: 6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

    Jesus defeats the Beast at he 7th Vial. He defeats him WITHOUT HANDS, meaning by speaking victory. The Jews need protecting for 1260 days for a reason.

    I think that it is the army of the 6th trumpet that is used to give Anti-Christ his power at the midpoint of the 7 years.
    The throne of God the Father causes an earthquake in Rev 8:5. This is the end of the story from 7:1 - 8:5. The trumpets start a whole new story that ends in 11:19 with the same throne of God the Father causing an earthquake and the hail that Jesus brings on the great day of God's wrath.
    See how these stories in Revelation may have different beginnings, but they all end when God comes!
    The 200 Million are conflated by a;most everyone as being MEN, but instead they are an Angelic Army of God, notice they DELIVER the Plagues of God and kill 1/3 of all mankind, and those that refused to repent from their wicked ways.....Rev. 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk: 21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

    The Three Earthquakes are described as different, because they are indeed different.

    These 10 mixed nations do form the final empire.
    I agree that Satan has been trying to bring about another empire and he will when the time is right.
    God seemingly divided their ability to unite like he divided the tongues/languages at Babel.

    The Harlot is always described as "great city." It is never described as anything else. The great city that was ruling when John wrote the Revelation was Rome.
    The king was "married" to the great city. In Rev 18:7, the great harlot is saying that her king will never die. Doesn't it make more sense that the city's king will never die, than the false religion will never die?

    In the days of the Roman Empire, Rome was the great city that ruled over the kings of the earth. Rome was a great harlot.
    In the days of the Babylonian Empire, Babylon was the great city that ruled over the earth. Babylon was a great harlot.
    The last great harlot or great city will cause other cities to kill Christians. That is why she is the mother of harlots. Killing (the blood of) Christians is the wine of her fornication.
    All one has to do is look to Rev. 16:19 to see WHO God sees as Babylon.

    Rev. 16:19 And the great city {Jerusalem}was divided into three parts {Earthquake}, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

    So Jesus lands on Mt Zion, it splits into via a Great Earthquake, Jerusalem is thus divided. The the CITIES OF THE NATIONS FELL !! Do people get this term ? Most countries were City States in those days. So when it says the Cities fall......this is the Nations who come against God at Atmageddon being DEFEATED once and for all. So WHO ARE THEY ? If we can answer this we can then see who God calls BABYLON !!

    Well lets look at who gathers to Armageddon at the 6th Vial. We know its the E.U. and Anti-Christ and the Kings of the East {Persia/Iran area} AND..........

    Rev. 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

    So God sees the Nations he defeats as Babylon the Great and thus GIVES THEM his Wrath.

    I wrote a Blog that said the same thing, ad the Holy Spirit was like Ron, you are wrong, look at the VISION....Look at what John SAW, that is what the Angel referenced John to look at. Babylon us used as a Metaphor for Satan's Wicked World, the one Paul stated that Satan was the god over, and Satan confirmed this in Luke 4, he told Jesus he was over EVERY Kingdom in the whole world. Babylon is Satan's Dark Rule on earth, he CONFUSES the masses. Its the perfect Metaphor in that way and its a Dead City, God could use it and the Romans thus would "LAUGH" at these crazy people. The Harlot is ALL FALSE RELIGION and the Beast she rides the back of is ALL FALSE GOVERNMENTS under Satan.

    The scarlet beast is Satan powered. Apollyon is under Satanic authority and will be the local spiritual authority that gives rise to the human authority.
    Geographically, I believe the Beast will be a return of Seluecia.
    Satan is over all Demons...Hes over the Anti-Christ who is a Beast also. That only means Dominating Israel/Mediterranean Sea Region.

    Those who have the seal of God are Christians. Christians are overcome in war by the Beast. The great numbers of Christians who are killed by the Beast during the Great Tribulation are seen in Rev 7.
    The Saints seen in Heaven in Rev. 7:9-16 are the Church Age Saints, NOT the Martyrs under the 5th Seal, they are judged in Rev. 20:4, it specifically states that all those who refused the Mark of the Beast will REIGN with Christ on earth for 1000 years, meaning they get their glorious bodies at that time. Jesus gave them their White Robes and SPECIFICALLY TELLS THEM, they must wait until their brothers have all been killed in LIKE MANNER, meaning they have wait until the Beasts 42 month reign of terror is over.

    Jesus told us we would have CONTINUAL TRIBULATION, thus the 2000 some odd year Church Age Tribulation is GREATER than the 7 year period of time as in 2000>7. We can't pigeonhole God's ability to use words in VARIOUS WAYS.....Greatest ever Troubles is a specific 3.5 year period............Greatest ever Period of Troubles is the Church Age Period that lasted 2000 some odd years. Its obvious it can't be the martyred Saints of Rev. 7 because Jesus tells them they must WAIT. Its the Raptured Church in Heaven, the same ones we see in Rev. 4 and 5.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I will answer the Daniel 12...1260, 1290 and 1335 in another post.

  12. #27
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Clanton Alabama
    Posts
    1,088

    Re: The Timing of Events

    Quote Originally Posted by 6paths View Post
    I gave this a second look since you mentioned it, but I don't see how the numbers could be reversed.
    Rev 12:7 When the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, I believe is a reference to the death of the 2 witnesses, the only ones who could not be killed for a while.

    I am not sure what happens 30 days after the 7 years, day 1290. Maybe it takes that long to drive antichrist out of Jerusalem for good.
    My guess is that the time of God's wrath, which begins at the end of the 7 years, will end 75 days later on day 1335.
    The 1335, 1290 and 1260 gives us our timeline of Events. Each is how many days from a certain event until these Wonders End. The 1260 is the Beast Conquering the Holy people, Jesus {Man in Linen} says that its 1260 days from the time Jerusalem is conquered until all these wonders end {Second Coming} The 1290 is likewise 1290 days until these Wonders End {Second Coming} ad the 1335 is 1335 days until these wonders end {Second Coming.}.

    1.) 1335 the Two-witnesses show up to turn Israel back unto God.

    2.) 1290 is the False Prophet {High Priest} forbidding the Jews from worshiping Jesus and then defiling the Temple by placing an Image of the E.U. President in the Temple.

    3.) The Anti-Christ Conquers Jerusalem, the Jews had 30 days to Flee Judea.

    So they do show up for 1260 days, but its not parallel with the Beasts 1260 days, the Jews HAVE to repent first, else how would they know to Flee Judea ? Or where to go ?

    Look at it like this.....

    ..........................................1335 days BEFORE the Second Coming the Two-witnesses show up................................................ .........{2W die}......Second Coming.
    .................................................. 1290 days BEFORE the Second Coming the Abomination happens........................................... ............................Second Coming.
    .................................................. .......1260 days BEFORE the Second Coming the Anti-Christ Conquers Jerusalem......................................... .........Second Coming.

    Verse 8 is the KEY, Daniel asks again, when will THESE THINGS END ? So just like the Jews are Conquested 1260 days until these Wonders cease/end, likewise the 1290 and 1335 are HOW LONG it will be from these other two events until, THESE THINGS END.

    If the first question is answered with a NUMBER OF DAYS until the Second Coming {these Wonders End} then all of the numbers are the exact same thing.

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    218

    Re: The Timing of Events

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    The mistake in your end times belief is evident, 6paths, from the way you place the Sixth Seal after the Great Tribulation.
    To do this means shuffling the given sequence of Revelation. Not a good idea and It is plain to anyone that in order to open a scroll, the seals must be opened first.
    I only place it there because the signs that occur immediately after the great tribulation in Matt 24:29 are the same signs that occur after the earthquake of Rev 6:12. It seems to me to be a good idea to put the same signs in the same order.

    I don't believe that I shuffle the signs in the tribulation. The signs are in order, although some take place at the same time. For example the conqueror of the 1st seal causes war which causes famine and pestilence and death. When Christians come against these conquerors, sometimes they are killed. This is the first 5 seals. There have been many conquerors since Rome who have tried to conquer the whole world, but it is not yet time for another world empire.

    In the same way that the first 5 seals take place at the same time, the earthquake of the 6th seal and the silence of the 7th seal occur at roughly the same time. There is an earthquake when the 2 witnesses rise into heaven (6th seal) and there is an elder song in heaven when something new happens, but the elders can't learn the song, leaving silence (7th seal and Rev 14:3) when the 2 witnesses/144,000 rise into heaven as the first of those to rise from the dead and ascend into heaven.

    When God comes to earth, each chronology in the Revelation ends. These stories are all in sequence. The first 2 stories do overlap, but then again, they all do because they all end at the same point in time. Rev 6:1-6:17 is a complete chronologic story. Both God the Father and God the Son come to earth to end this story. Rev 7:1-8:5 is another complete chronologic story. It ends with the throne of God the Father causing an earthquake. Sometimes both the Father and the Son are shown coming to earth and sometimes just one or the other is shown.

    If you compare all of the stories, the great tribulation is always 3.5 years and it always comes before the wrath of God, the last part of which is his physical presence on earth. Parts of the 7th bowl of God's wrath are shown 6 times. How could you put those parts of the 7th bowl into a single sequence and make any sense out of the Revelation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    Nowhere does the Bible say the 144,000 are martyred and go to heaven, This is not their fate, they are the people who will proclaim the coming Kingdom to the world. Isaiah 66:19 Not the angel as Rev 14:6-7 describes in an allegory for them. Luke 10:1-10 is the precursor for them.

    Luke 10:2 " Therefore said he unto them, The harvest truly is great, but the labourers are few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth labourers into his harvest."
    Aren't Christians part of the harvest because we will be cut off from the earth and gathered into Jesus' barn?
    Isn't the harvest made up of first fruits and then the rest of the harvest?
    Why do you suppose the 144,000 are called first fruits?
    Don't you see the rest of Jesus' harvest in Rev 14:14-16?

    No where does the Bible say the 144,000 will be witnesses to the world.

    For sure: the next few years are going to be interesting!

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    8,227
    Blog Entries
    13

    Re: The Timing of Events

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    Scripture says that the 144,000 are "sealed" so that the mechanisms of the Great Tribulation do not hurt them (see Revelation 9:4 as well). It says nothing of them "becoming Christians". Much more, they are the Israelite Remnant predicted by Moses in Deuteronomy 30:1-5 and Romans 9 and 11.
    But faith or belief of any Israelite at that time [end-times] will be based on acceptance of Jesus Christ as Lord, otherwise, how does it differ from their status today as believers, but not in Christ? So yes, I concur that they will become Christians.

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    8,227
    Blog Entries
    13

    Re: The Timing of Events

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    1. I agree with everything up to the the "Assyrian". Could you show this. You had him as a Roman just 1260 days prior, which I agree with.
    2. If the Roman Leader "confirms" or "strengthens" (lit. Heb.) THE Covenant with Israel, why would he want to kill all Jews? As long as they obey and pay obeisance they are safe. In Revelation 12:13-17 he only wants to kill those "who keep the commandments of God" - again, the Jewish Remnant of Deuteronomy 30:1-5.
    How about he never liked the Jews? And the so-called covenant is all a ploy to win their trust while scheming to destroy them? Secondly, don't forget that he wages a full war against Jerusalem which capitulates under his assault. His troops' slaughter, pillage and rape Israeli women. There is nothing in the Beast's character that suggests that obeisance from Israel is enough to appease him. The man is simply BAD, there's nothing decent about him.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 9 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 9 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 6
    Last Post: Aug 19th 2010, 11:45 PM
  2. Timing...Hm..
    By lovex in forum Growing in Christ
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: Mar 1st 2010, 12:14 AM
  3. God's Timing
    By VerticalReality in forum Bible Chat
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: Feb 4th 2010, 09:28 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •