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Thread: The Timing of Events

  1. #241
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    Re: The Timing of Events

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan Pergola View Post
    Matt 24:3 "Later, Jesus sat on the Mount of Olives. His disciples came to him privately and said, "Tell us when will all this happen? What sign will signal your return and the end of the world?"

    The "all this" is referring to the previous statement:
    The conversations are separated by an hour...we can't say for sure what the disciples were asking about but in any event Christ did not include the destruction of Jerusalem or temple in the OD.




    So they were asking when the buildings would be demolished, what signs would warn them. He said "this generation,"
    No, he did not say this generation regarding when the temple would be destroyed. When he spoke of a certain generation, he said they would see all the GT events plus the second coming...the first century generation saw none of those things.



    Also see 1 Thessalonians 4:17; where Paul said sometime in the 50's or 60's AD: "we who are still alive." Who does he mean by "we." He and his contemporaries of course.
    Paul did not see the second coming. That is known as full preterism and is heresy.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  2. #242
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    Re: The Timing of Events

    I have found this video very helpful with bible prophecy - bit.ly/THATCHART

  3. #243
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    Re: The Timing of Events

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan Pergola View Post
    Matt 24:3 "Later, Jesus sat on the Mount of Olives. His disciples came to him privately and said, "Tell us when will all this happen? What sign will signal your return and the end of the world?"

    The "all this" is referring to the previous statement: -- "Do you see all these buildings? I tell you the truth, they will be completely demolished. Not one stone will be left on top of another!"

    So they were asking when the buildings would be demolished, what signs would warn them. He said "this generation," the generation he was talking to, not one single generation, would not pass. Also see Matt 16:28, Mark 9:1, Luke 9:27. They who were alive back then would see Jesus return. Also see 1 Thessalonians 4:17; where Paul said sometime in the 50's or 60's AD: "we who are still alive." Who does he mean by "we." He and his contemporaries of course.
    History says Paul died, therefore his expectation to participate in the resurrection as a living believer was not actually fulfilled, due to him dying first.

    Not that he was wrong, it's just we all know that we who are still alive will not precede the dead. The dead will rise first at the resurrection. Just because I'm saying that, does not mean I'm predicting I will never die.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_the_Apostle
    According to several Church Fathers and apocryphal books, Paul was beheaded in Rome by orders of Nero

    The phrase "this generation" also means "that generation", ie the generation written about that would experience those events.

    Definition: hoûtos, hoo'-tos; from the article G3588 and G846; the he (she or it), i.e. THIS OR THAT (often with article repeated):—he (it was that), hereof, it, she, such as, the same, these, they, this (man, same, woman), which, who.

    maybe it will be easier to understand if I say :
    THAT GENERATION

  4. #244

    Re: The Timing of Events

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan Pergola View Post
    Matt 24:3 "Later, Jesus sat on the Mount of Olives. His disciples came to him privately and said, "Tell us when will all this happen? What sign will signal your return and the end of the world?"

    The "all this" is referring to the previous statement: -- "Do you see all these buildings? I tell you the truth, they will be completely demolished. Not one stone will be left on top of another!"

    So they were asking when the buildings would be demolished, what signs would warn them. He said "this generation," the generation he was talking to, not one single generation, would not pass. Also see Matt 16:28, Mark 9:1, Luke 9:27. They who were alive back then would see Jesus return. Also see 1 Thessalonians 4:17; where Paul said sometime in the 50's or 60's AD: "we who are still alive." Who does he mean by "we." He and his contemporaries of course.
    Perhaps in the verses prior to verse 15, Jesus may have been referring to the destruction of the temple in 70AD. But in verse 15, he moved on to discuss the end of time and his coming.

    1) The abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet is regarding the man of sin (son of perdition) also described by Paul, this is not referring to 70AD. We know the Lord will consume him with the brightness of his coming when the Lord appears. (2 Thess 2) "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him", and continues to describe the man of sin's destruction.
    2) Jesus make no uncertainty in Verses 27-31 that this is a period of his coming and will send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet to gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heave to the other.
    3) Jesus also advised in verse 34-35 that, this generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Then to say heaven and earth will pass away. He was not referring to 70AD.
    4) Finally in verse 36 stated, "of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."
    If this was referring to 70AD, I'm pretty sure Jesus knew everything regarding that event in 70AD. He knew Peter would deny him 3 times. But regarding the end of time, Jesus says only my Father knows.


    Matthew 24:
    15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
    27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
    28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
    29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
    30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
    31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
    34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
    35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
    36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

  5. #245

    Re: The Timing of Events

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    History says Paul died, therefore his expectation to participate in the resurrection as a living believer was not actually fulfilled, due to him dying first.

    Not that he was wrong, it's just we all know that we who are still alive will not precede the dead. The dead will rise first at the resurrection. Just because I'm saying that, does not mean I'm predicting I will never die.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_the_Apostle
    According to several Church Fathers and apocryphal books, Paul was beheaded in Rome by orders of Nero

    The phrase "this generation" also means "that generation", ie the generation written about that would experience those events.

    Definition: hoûtos, hoo'-tos; from the article G3588 and G846; the he (she or it), i.e. THIS OR THAT (often with article repeated):—he (it was that), hereof, it, she, such as, the same, these, they, this (man, same, woman), which, who.

    maybe it will be easier to understand if I say :
    THAT GENERATION
    Where does history tell us Paul died?

  6. #246

    Re: The Timing of Events

    Can no one see the pointlessness of these arguments?

    "This" now means "that".
    Paul was beheaded, according to writings over a hundred years after by people who had no more knowledge about it than we do. They made it up.

  7. #247
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    Re: The Timing of Events

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan Pergola View Post
    Can no one see the pointlessness of these arguments?
    Proverbs 27:17 Iron sharpens iron, and one man sharpens another.

    How do you suppose that we sharpen one another, by silence, or by honest communication with one another over our contentions ?
    Don't seek too much knowledge. You just may be putting more weight on your shoulders than you're able to bare.
    Let God be the one to decide how quickly you grow

  8. #248
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    Re: The Timing of Events

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan Pergola View Post
    Where does history tell us Paul died?
    Wikipedia claims that the early church fathers and books of the apocraphra record Paul's death.


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_the_Apostle
    According to several Church Fathers and apocryphal books, Paul was beheaded in Rome by orders of Nero

  9. #249
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    Re: The Timing of Events

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan Pergola View Post
    Can no one see the pointlessness of these arguments?

    "This" now means "that".
    Paul was beheaded, according to writings over a hundred years after by people who had no more knowledge about it than we do. They made it up.
    If you can prove that, then I suggest you submit changes to the Wikipedia article. Normally those Wikipedia articles have to have evidence through references.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/biblere...stle-paul/amp/
    [In fact, as early as the early third century, Hippolytus (of Rome) would make a reference to Spain whilst also retaining the Neronian martyrdom. He writes:

    And Paul entered into the apostleship a year after the assumption of Christ; and beginning at Jerusalem, he advanced as far as Illyricum, and Italy, and Spain, preaching the Gospel for five-and-thirty years. And in the time of Nero he was beheaded at Rome, and was buried there.]

    That was only about 150 years after Paul's death, they are more likely to know the true story than we are.

    This is a very important subject because we are told repeatedly what to expect in the future regarding the antichrist and the second coming. There is no reason to see these events in history.

    And if you look into the Greek, it can mean "that generation". Context points to a future generation.

  10. #250
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    Re: The Timing of Events

    This may interest you:
    Acts of the Apostles. The missing Chapter 29:
    220 years ago, this missing chapter of the Book of Acts, written in the same Greek as the rest of the New Testament, was found in the archives of the Sultan, in Istanbul by Frenchman; C.S. Sonnini. It was translated and printed in 1801.
    There are other proofs of Paul's visit to Britain, in the writings of the Early Church Fathers and in many oral traditions of England.
    Note that in the last two verses of Acts 28:30-31, Paul was free in Rome and he stayed there for two full years. Then......nothing more?
    The Bible does not tell us the time and manner of Paul’s death, but we can be sure, he didn’t just retire and tend his garden! If he was beheaded by Nero, as some speculate, surely the Bible would have told us that. Anyway beheading wasn’t Nero’s style. No; Acts infers a departure from Rome....to where?

    Acts 29:1 And Paul full of the blessings of Christ and abounding in the Spirit, departed out of Rome, determining to go to Spain, for he had for a long time purposed to go there and was minded also to go from there into Britain.
    2/ For he had heard in Phoenicia that certain of the children of Israel, at the time of the Assyrian captivity, had escaped by sea to ‘the isles afar off’, as spoken by the prophet, [Jeremiah 31:10] and called by the Romans, Britain.
    3/ As the Lord Commanded, the Gospel was to be preached to the Gentiles and to the lost sheep of the House of Israel. Matthew 15:24
    4/ And no man hindered Paul, for he testified boldly of Jesus before the Tribunes and among the people. He took with him certain of the brethren who were with him in Rome. They took ship at Ostium and having the winds fair, were brought safely into a port of Spain.
    5/ Many people gathered from the towns and the hill country, for they had heard of the conversion of Paul and the many miracles he had done.
    6/ Paul preached mightily in Spain and a great multitude believed and became Christian, for they perceived that he was an Apostle sent by God.

    7/ Then Paul and his company departed out of Spain, finding a ship in Armorica sailing to Britain, they went on it and passing along the south coast arrived in a port called Raphinus. [Portsmouth]
    8/ Now when it was noised abroad that the Apostle had landed, great multitudes of the inhabitants met him and they treated Paul courteously as he entered their town by the East gate and lodged in the home of a Hebrew, one of his own kin. Romans 16:13
    9/ Then they travelled to the main town of Britain, [Londinium] Paul stood upon Mount Lud, [Ludgate hill, where St Pauls Cathedral now stands] and the crowds thronged in Broadway as he preached Christ to them and many believed the Word and the Testimony of Jesus.
    10/ In the evening the holy Ghost fell upon Paul and he prophesied, saying: ‘Behold, in the last days the God of peace shall dwell in this place and the citizens shall be numbered, then in the seventh numbering of the people, their eyes shall be opened and the glory of their inheritance will shine forth before them. Nations shall come up to worship on the mount that testifies to the patience and longsuffering of the servants of the Lord’.
    11/ And in the latter days, new tidings of the Gospel shall issue forth out of Jerusalem and the hearts of the people will rejoice. Behold fountains will be opened and there will be no more plagues.
    12/ In those days there shall be wars and rumours of wars and a king shall rise up, his Sword will be the healing of the nations, his Peace-making shall abide and the glory of his kingdom a wonder to the world. [The Millennium Kingdom of Jesus]

    13/ Then some of the Druids came to Paul privately and showed to Paul by their rites and ceremonies that they were descended from Israel, who had escaped from their bondage in the land of Egypt. The Apostle believed them and he gave them the kiss of peace.
    13/ Paul stayed in his lodging for three months, preaching the Gospel continually and confirming those in the faith.
    15/ After this Paul and his friends sailed from there to Atium in Gaul. [France]
    16/ There Paul preached in the Roman garrisons and among the people, exhorting all to repent and to confess their sins.
    17/ There came to him some of the Belgae, [North Europeans] to enquire of him about this new doctrine and about the man Jesus. Paul opened his heart to them and told them all that had befallen him and how Christ Jesus had come into the world to save sinners. They departed, pondering among themselves the things they had heard.

    18/ After much preaching and toil, Paul and his laborers passed into Helvetia, [Switzerland] and came to Mount Pontius Pilate, where he who had condemned Jesus had dashed himself down headlong, so perishing miserably.
    19/ Then a torrent gushed out of the mountain and washed his broken body into a lake.
    20/ Paul stretched forth his hands over the water and prayed to the Lord: “O Lord God, give a sign that here Pontius Pilate, who condemned your only begotten Son, has gone down into the pit.”
    21/ As Paul was speaking, there came a great earthquake and the sign of the Cross was formed upon the lake.
    22/ A Voice came from heaven saying, “Even Pilate has escaped the wrath to come, because he washed his hands before the crowd at the blood shedding of Jesus.”
    23/ When therefore, Paul and those who were with him, saw the earthquake and heard the Voice, they glorified God and were mightily strengthened in spirit.

    24/ They journeyed on and came to Mt Julius, [the Julian Alps, now the Dolomites] where there stood two pillars; right and left, erected by Caesar Augustus,
    25/ Then Paul filled with the Holy Spirit, stood between those two pillars and said, “Men and brethren, these stones you see here shall testify of my travels to here and I say with certainty that they will remain until the outpouring of the Spirit onto all nations and the way, [the Gospel] will not be hindered throughout all generations.”
    26/ They went forth and come to Illyricum, [the Balkan area; Romans 15:19] where they prospered and had peace, as grace was found in all the churches.

  11. #251
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    Re: The Timing of Events

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan Pergola View Post
    Where does history tell us Paul died?
    Huh?
    Are you suggesting that Paul is still alive? Or perhaps, whisked up to heaven like Elijah?

  12. #252
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    Re: The Timing of Events

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    This may interest you:
    Acts of the Apostles. The missing Chapter 29:
    220 years ago, this missing chapter of the Book of Acts, written in the same Greek as the rest of the New Testament, was found in the archives of the Sultan, in Istanbul by Frenchman; C.S. Sonnini. It was translated and printed in 1801.
    There are other proofs of Paul's visit to Britain, in the writings of the Early Church Fathers and in many oral traditions of England.
    Note that in the last two verses of Acts 28:30-31, Paul was free in Rome and he stayed there for two full years. Then......nothing more?
    The Bible does not tell us the time and manner of Paul’s death, but we can be sure, he didn’t just retire and tend his garden! If he was beheaded by Nero, as some speculate, surely the Bible would have told us that. Anyway beheading wasn’t Nero’s style. No; Acts infers a departure from Rome....to where?

    Acts 29:1 And Paul full of the blessings of Christ and abounding in the Spirit, departed out of Rome, determining to go to Spain, for he had for a long time purposed to go there and was minded also to go from there into Britain.
    2/ For he had heard in Phoenicia that certain of the children of Israel, at the time of the Assyrian captivity, had escaped by sea to ‘the isles afar off’, as spoken by the prophet, [Jeremiah 31:10] and called by the Romans, Britain.
    3/ As the Lord Commanded, the Gospel was to be preached to the Gentiles and to the lost sheep of the House of Israel. Matthew 15:24
    4/ And no man hindered Paul, for he testified boldly of Jesus before the Tribunes and among the people. He took with him certain of the brethren who were with him in Rome. They took ship at Ostium and having the winds fair, were brought safely into a port of Spain.
    5/ Many people gathered from the towns and the hill country, for they had heard of the conversion of Paul and the many miracles he had done.
    6/ Paul preached mightily in Spain and a great multitude believed and became Christian, for they perceived that he was an Apostle sent by God.

    7/ Then Paul and his company departed out of Spain, finding a ship in Armorica sailing to Britain, they went on it and passing along the south coast arrived in a port called Raphinus. [Portsmouth]
    8/ Now when it was noised abroad that the Apostle had landed, great multitudes of the inhabitants met him and they treated Paul courteously as he entered their town by the East gate and lodged in the home of a Hebrew, one of his own kin. Romans 16:13
    9/ Then they travelled to the main town of Britain, [Londinium] Paul stood upon Mount Lud, [Ludgate hill, where St Pauls Cathedral now stands] and the crowds thronged in Broadway as he preached Christ to them and many believed the Word and the Testimony of Jesus.
    10/ In the evening the holy Ghost fell upon Paul and he prophesied, saying: ‘Behold, in the last days the God of peace shall dwell in this place and the citizens shall be numbered, then in the seventh numbering of the people, their eyes shall be opened and the glory of their inheritance will shine forth before them. Nations shall come up to worship on the mount that testifies to the patience and longsuffering of the servants of the Lord’.
    11/ And in the latter days, new tidings of the Gospel shall issue forth out of Jerusalem and the hearts of the people will rejoice. Behold fountains will be opened and there will be no more plagues.
    12/ In those days there shall be wars and rumours of wars and a king shall rise up, his Sword will be the healing of the nations, his Peace-making shall abide and the glory of his kingdom a wonder to the world. [The Millennium Kingdom of Jesus]

    13/ Then some of the Druids came to Paul privately and showed to Paul by their rites and ceremonies that they were descended from Israel, who had escaped from their bondage in the land of Egypt. The Apostle believed them and he gave them the kiss of peace.
    13/ Paul stayed in his lodging for three months, preaching the Gospel continually and confirming those in the faith.
    15/ After this Paul and his friends sailed from there to Atium in Gaul. [France]
    16/ There Paul preached in the Roman garrisons and among the people, exhorting all to repent and to confess their sins.
    17/ There came to him some of the Belgae, [North Europeans] to enquire of him about this new doctrine and about the man Jesus. Paul opened his heart to them and told them all that had befallen him and how Christ Jesus had come into the world to save sinners. They departed, pondering among themselves the things they had heard.

    18/ After much preaching and toil, Paul and his laborers passed into Helvetia, [Switzerland] and came to Mount Pontius Pilate, where he who had condemned Jesus had dashed himself down headlong, so perishing miserably.
    19/ Then a torrent gushed out of the mountain and washed his broken body into a lake.
    20/ Paul stretched forth his hands over the water and prayed to the Lord: “O Lord God, give a sign that here Pontius Pilate, who condemned your only begotten Son, has gone down into the pit.”
    21/ As Paul was speaking, there came a great earthquake and the sign of the Cross was formed upon the lake.
    22/ A Voice came from heaven saying, “Even Pilate has escaped the wrath to come, because he washed his hands before the crowd at the blood shedding of Jesus.”
    23/ When therefore, Paul and those who were with him, saw the earthquake and heard the Voice, they glorified God and were mightily strengthened in spirit.

    24/ They journeyed on and came to Mt Julius, [the Julian Alps, now the Dolomites] where there stood two pillars; right and left, erected by Caesar Augustus,
    25/ Then Paul filled with the Holy Spirit, stood between those two pillars and said, “Men and brethren, these stones you see here shall testify of my travels to here and I say with certainty that they will remain until the outpouring of the Spirit onto all nations and the way, [the Gospel] will not be hindered throughout all generations.”
    26/ They went forth and come to Illyricum, [the Balkan area; Romans 15:19] where they prospered and had peace, as grace was found in all the churches.
    This is indeed an interesting read. I've certainly heard rumours of claims by the Druids that they were descended from Israel, and their bizarre sacrifices were legendry. Acts 29? I'm just hearing it for the first time - certainly worth looking into.

    Thanks for sharing your research.

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