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Thread: The Timing of Events

  1. #136
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    Re: The Timing of Events

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    Many prophesies tell about a time when the Lord's people will live in all of the holy Land and how they will know the Lord is helping them; not by His visible presence, but by His deeds for them. Ezekiel says this over 25 times....you will know that I am the Lord, who helps you.
    I should have pointed out that if you follow the book of Revelation in the chronology that is written, your chronology makes sense.
    However, I don't believe that chronology is supported in other texts. I also don't believe that it accounts for the repetition of the same events found in different sections of the Revelation.

    Isn't the lack of God's presence in Ezekiel, the opposite of Rev 6? Aren't both the throne of God and Jesus visible in Rev 6:16? "...Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb"

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    Proof of this is how the Christian people will choose for themselves a leader. Hosea 1:11, Jeremiah 30:21
    Please explain why Hosea 1:11 and Jeremiah 30:21 aren't specific to Judah and Israel, at the time they turn to God?
    After God raises the 2 witnesses and destroys the enemies of Israel, Israel will indeed be gathered from the nations to the land of Israel and will worship God during the MK. Where do you find another kingdom coming against Israel before the 1,000 years are over in the context of these verses?
    You seem to include all Christian people in this group and not just the recently converted Jews. Why?
    Other than the 144,000, there is no mention of other Israelites being converted to Christianity in Rev 7.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    Then the detailed instructions given to them in Ezekiel 40 to 48, show plainly that Jesus has not Returned as yet.
    Do you agree that Jesus is walking the earth in chapter 43 of Ezekiel?

  2. #137
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    Re: The Timing of Events

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    I finally got my brand new computer to work properly after a year.....it would just freeze on everything, right out of the box, I installed a new bios {scary} and everything else, took like 6 hours, so no more keypads with not letters showing, LOL. Look like I couldn't spell, but half my letters were blank/or black.



    There is only three earthquakes, the Rev. 11 earthquake and the Rev. 16 earthquake are the SAME ONE. As per the "Mountains and Islands its prose, its meant to show what happens during earthquakes, "THINGS MOVE" There can be gigantic earthquake in California that in no wise effects Europe, likewise Japan can have a quake that doesn't effect America, etc. etc. etc. These Plagues hit the whole world. As per to the earthquakes, we can see them described.

    Rev. 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

    {{{ This earthquake announces Gods Wrath to Mankind, it happens on day 1261, and thus the Beast has 1260 days to rule. All 6 Seals are basically opened at the same time, the 7th Seal, which is the 7 Trumpets is held up until the Jews reach Petra. I see Satan being cast out of Heaven as THE STARS here.}}}

    Rev. 8:5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake. 6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

    {{{ Then in chapter 8 we have another Earthquake at the very moment that the 7th Trumpets are being readied. These coming Plagues will be in the 1/3's the Sun and moon go dark by 1/3's. }}}

    Rev. 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

    {{{ The above is the Rev. 16 vial number 7 Earthquake. That's why Jesus TAKES OVER here !! Just like in Rev. 16:19. }}}

    Actually verse 19 or 18-19...………. Rev. 16:18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. 9 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

    {{{ Jesus destroys the Beast and TAKES OVER HERE. }}}


    Different Events, the Anti-Christ will kill a 1/3 of all Mankind, the Judging Angelic Army of God will take out 1/4 of all mankind left on earth.



    I was speaking about chapters 12, 13, 17 and 18. I will look over the other post later, God Bless.



    I finally got my brand new computer to work properly after a year.....it would just freeze on everything, right out of the box, I installed a new bios {scary} and everything else, took like 6 hours, so no more keypads with not letters showing, LOL. Look like I couldn't spell, but half my letters were blank/or black.



    There is only three earthquakes, the Rev. 11 earthquake and the Rev. 16 earthquake are the SAME ONE. As per the "Mountains and Islands its prose, its meant to show what happens during earthquakes, "THINGS MOVE" There can be gigantic earthquake in California that in no wise effects Europe, likewise Japan can have a quake that doesn't effect America, etc. etc. etc. These Plagues hit the whole world. As per to the earthquakes, we can see them described.

    Rev. 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

    {{{ This earthquake announces Gods Wrath to Mankind, it happens on day 1261, and thus the Beast has 1260 days to rule. All 6 Seals are basically opened at the same time, the 7th Seal, which is the 7 Trumpets is held up until the Jews reach Petra. I see Satan being cast out of Heaven as THE STARS here.}}}

    Rev. 8:5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake. 6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

    {{{ Then in chapter 8 we have another Earthquake at the very moment that the 7th Trumpets are being readied. These coming Plagues will be in the 1/3's the Sun and moon go dark by 1/3's. }}}

    Rev. 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

    {{{ The above is the Rev. 16 vial number 7 Earthquake. That's why Jesus TAKES OVER here !! Just like in Rev. 16:19. }}}

    Actually verse 19 or 18-19...………. Rev. 16:18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. 9 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

    {{{ Jesus destroys the Beast and TAKES OVER HERE. }}}


    Different Events, the Anti-Christ will kill a 1/3 of all Mankind, the Judging Angelic Army of God will take out 1/4 of all mankind left on earth.



    I was speaking about chapters 12, 13, 17 and 18. I will look over the other post later, God Bless.
    Congratulations on getting the computer working!

    I have tried to change your red highlight in the second of the double post to show you that the voices, and thunders, and lightnings; all are mentioned with the earthquake.
    Voices, thunders, and lightnings; are a symbol for the throne of God. Rev 4:5 "...out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices"

    What do you think about this? Doesn't this tell us that when the throne of God is visible that an earthquake will occur? This is what occurs in Rev 6.

  3. #138
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    Re: The Timing of Events

    Quote Originally Posted by 6paths View Post
    1 Thes 4:13-17
    "13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
    14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
    15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
    16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
    17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

    Verse 15 says specifically that those who are alive will not prevent or precede those who are dead.
    Verse 16 repeats that the dead will first be raised before anything happens to the living.

    Doesn't this mean that something happens to the dead before something happens to the living?
    To me, the dead come out of the ground like a crop coming up from seeds, then the living crop is changed into a like form as that of the dead, and then they are harvested or cut off from the earth at one time.

    Where do you find the living harvested before the dead?



    1 Thes 4:13-17
    "13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
    14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
    15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
    16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
    17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

    Verse 15 says specifically that those who are alive will not prevent or precede those who are dead.
    Verse 16 repeats that the dead will first be raised before anything happens to the living.

    Doesn't this mean that something happens to the dead before something happens to the living?
    Yes.


    To me, the dead come out of the ground like a crop coming up from seeds, then the living crop is changed into a like form as that of the dead, and then they are harvested or cut off from the earth at one time.
    The dead are in heaven awaiting the time to receive their new bodies which scripture also says is in heaven so the resurrection and receiving new bodies happens in heaven not on Earth. Their old bodies on Earth remain where they are. So in a seed analogy, they are planted on Earth but spring up in heaven.

    Where do you find the living harvested before the dead?
    The living aren't harvested before the dead resurrect. "them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him." They resurrect in heaven then will follow Christ as he descends to the clouds of the Earth to meet the living being "harvested".
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  4. #139
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    Re: The Timing of Events

    Quote Originally Posted by 6paths View Post
    1/ I should have pointed out that if you follow the book of Revelation in the chronology that is written, your chronology makes sense.

    2/ However, I don't believe that chronology is supported in other texts. I also don't believe that it accounts for the repetition of the same events found in different sections of the Revelation.

    3/Isn't the lack of God's presence in Ezekiel, the opposite of Rev 6? Aren't both the throne of God and Jesus visible in Rev 6:16? "...Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb"

    4/ Please explain why Hosea 1:11 and Jeremiah 30:21 aren't specific to Judah and Israel, at the time they turn to God?

    5/ After God raises the 2 witnesses and destroys the enemies of Israel, Israel will indeed be gathered from the nations to the land of Israel and will worship God during the MK.

    6/ Where do you find another kingdom coming against Israel before the 1,000 years are over in the context of these verses?

    7/ You seem to include all Christian people in this group and not just the recently converted Jews. Why?
    Other than the 144,000, there is no mention of other Israelites being converted to Christianity in Rev 7.

    8/ Do you agree that Jesus is walking the earth in chapter 43 of Ezekiel?
    I have split your post into 8 for clarity in my replies:

    1 & 2/ The chronology of Revelation; the seals, Trumpets and then the Bowls, culminating in the Glorious Return of Jesus, is confirmed in the OT, as when Jesus quoted Isaiah 61, He stopped before: and a Day of the Lords vengeance. This shows that will be the next prophesied event; still not happened yet, but it will on the Appointed day. Habakkuk 2:3

    3/ Rev 6:16 does not say that the people, everyone alive in the world at that time, will actually see God on His Throne. They just know it is God's punishment. This does not happen at Jesus' Return. Then; He just destroys the attacking armies and chains u

    4/ Those people who will go to live in all of the holy Land, Psalms 107, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Isaiah 35, must be faithful Christians, from every tribe [of Israel] race, nation and language. John sees then there in Revelation 7:9.
    They will be descendants of the Patriarchs, by faith, Galatians 3:26-29, and most by faith and ethnicity, in order for God's promises to them to be fulfilled.
    Jeremiah 3:15 In the Land, I will give you leaders with knowledge and understanding.

    5/ God's faithful Christian people will inhabit the holy Land years before the time of the 2 Witnesses. Proved by how they are there when the Anti-Christ conquers them. Daniel 7:25, Revelation 13:7 Also they are there when G/M comes to attack them. Ezekiel 38:12

    6/ There is no attacks during the Millennium until at the end of the 1000 years. Revelation 20:7
    The conquest of God's people by the AC, Zechariah 14:1-2, happens 3 1/2 years before Jesus Returns.

    7/ There is only ONE people of God. John 17:20-23, Ephesians 4:4-6
    The 144,000 will be selected by Jesus out of the vast multitude of Christians. Revelation 14:1-5 We will be assigned to a tribe according to our family characteristics, or by our actual ancestry; which God knows. Amos 9:9
    The 'other Israelites' have already been converted, as Jesus mission to save the lost sheep of Israel, was eminently successful. We Christians ARE the Israelites of God, the Overcomers for Him and the Victorious ones, as seen in each of the seven Church's of Revelation.

    8/ No He is here spiritually now and He will guide His people as he did in ancient times. 1 Corinthians 10:4
    When we build the new Temple, Zechariah 6:15, the Shekinah glory will come into it. Ezekiel 43:1-5 It will leave temporarily when the AC desecrates the Temple, then be replaced by the physical Presence of Jesus at His Return.

    6pths, these things will come to pass as prophesied, but right now what we should be aware of and prepared for is the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster, that will kill millions and destroy our modern infrastructure.
    But as Revelation 3:3 says; If you don't wake up, I will come upon you like a thief... Isaiah 35:4-5, Isaiah 29:18 & 24,

  5. #140
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    Re: The Timing of Events

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Yes.




    The dead are in heaven awaiting the time to receive their new bodies which scripture also says is in heaven so the resurrection and receiving new bodies happens in heaven not on Earth. Their old bodies on Earth remain where they are. So in a seed analogy, they are planted on Earth but spring up in heaven.



    The living aren't harvested before the dead resurrect. "them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him." They resurrect in heaven then will follow Christ as he descends to the clouds of the Earth to meet the living being "harvested".
    The dead are in heaven awaiting the time to receive their new bodies which scripture also says is in heaven so the resurrection and receiving new bodies happens in heaven not on Earth. Their old bodies on Earth remain where they are. So in a seed analogy, they are planted on Earth but spring up in heaven.


    How do you interpret Is 26:19-21?
    "19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
    20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
    21 For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain."

    Doesn't this passage state that the remains of the dead come out of the earth?

    Doesn't John 5:28-29 say that the dead will come forth or be resurrected from the grave and not from heaven?
    "28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
    29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

    I agree with you that life is from God, and that God is in heaven.
    It just seems to me that the life from God, from heaven, is put into bodies that come out of the grave.
    The corruptible body from earth "puts on" incorruption whether living or dead. Incorruption is from heaven.

    Do you believe that the living have to go to heaven before they become incorruptible? Or, are they changed on earth before they rise?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Yes.




    The dead are in heaven awaiting the time to receive their new bodies which scripture also says is in heaven so the resurrection and receiving new bodies happens in heaven not on Earth. Their old bodies on Earth remain where they are. So in a seed analogy, they are planted on Earth but spring up in heaven.



    The living aren't harvested before the dead resurrect. "them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him." They resurrect in heaven then will follow Christ as he descends to the clouds of the Earth to meet the living being "harvested".
    The dead are in heaven awaiting the time to receive their new bodies which scripture also says is in heaven so the resurrection and receiving new bodies happens in heaven not on Earth. Their old bodies on Earth remain where they are. So in a seed analogy, they are planted on Earth but spring up in heaven.


    How do you interpret Is 26:19-21?
    "19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
    20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
    21 For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain."

    Doesn't this passage state that the remains of the dead come out of the earth?

    Doesn't John 5:28-29 say that the dead will come forth or be resurrected from the grave and not from heaven?
    "28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
    29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

    I agree with you that life is from God, and that God is in heaven.
    It just seems to me that the life from God, from heaven, is put into bodies that come out of the grave.
    The corruptible body from earth "puts on" incorruption whether living or dead. Incorruption is from heaven.

    Do you believe that the living have to go to heaven before they become incorruptible? Or, are they changed on earth before they rise?

  6. #141
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    Re: The Timing of Events

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    I have split your post into 8 for clarity in my replies:

    1 & 2/ The chronology of Revelation; the seals, Trumpets and then the Bowls, culminating in the Glorious Return of Jesus, is confirmed in the OT, as when Jesus quoted Isaiah 61, He stopped before: and a Day of the Lords vengeance.… This shows that will be the next prophesied event; still not happened yet, but it will on the Appointed day. Habakkuk 2:3
    The Day of the Lords vengeance is found in Is 61:2. This passage is followed in Is 61 and 62 by a description of the MK. Then Is 63:1 starts again from the same Day of Vengeance. Is 64 starts again with the same day of the Lord's vengeance. Do you believe that these describe different days? If this repetition is found in Isaiah, why not find it in Revelation?

    Is 66 contains a chronology where the Day of the Lord's Vengeance is not the next event. Is 66:8 prophesied the new birth of the nation of Israel. This section moves to the MK, but backs up into the Day of Vengeance in 66:15, which again is followed by a description of the MK.

    What is lacking in all of these Is chronologies is the emergence of an antichrist following the Day of the Lord's Vengeance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    3/ Rev 6:16 does not say that the people, everyone alive in the world at that time, will actually see God on His Throne. They just know it is God's punishment. This does not happen at Jesus' Return. Then; He just destroys the attacking armies and chains u
    What do you believe about Rev 6:15 "And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;"

    Why would these unbelievers think to say that their disaster is coming not only from the throne of God, but also from Jesus; if they could not see them?
    This would truly be a great miracle!

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    4/ Those people who will go to live in all of the holy Land, Psalms 107, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Isaiah 35, must be faithful Christians, from every tribe [of Israel] race, nation and language. John sees then there in Revelation 7:9.
    They will be descendants of the Patriarchs, by faith, Galatians 3:26-29, and most by faith and ethnicity, in order for God's promises to them to be fulfilled.
    Jeremiah 3:15 In the Land, I will give you leaders with knowledge and understanding.
    I have still not found 1 instance where God's people will go to Israel after the Day of the Lord's Vengeance that is not a MK reference.
    To prove that these are not MK references, you would have to show scripture that starts with the Day of the Lord's Vengeance, followed by the ingathering, followed by the antichrist. The hodgepodge of scripture verses you list to back your chronology, seem to better support my chronology when they are read in context with the surrounding scripture.

    Until the fulness of the Gentiles has come in, the Gentile nations and the nation of Israel are named separately. Only a remnant of Israel comes to faith during the times of the Gentiles. Romans 11, esp v25-26. Are you suggesting that all of the Gentiles have accepted Jesus as Savior at the time of Rev 7:9?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    5/ God's faithful Christian people will inhabit the holy Land years before the time of the 2 Witnesses. Proved by how they are there when the Anti-Christ conquers them. Daniel 7:25, Revelation 13:7 Also they are there when G/M comes to attack them. Ezekiel 38:12
    If you compare Rev 13:7 with Dan 5:19, this is a description for world power. It does not say that these people are all in Israel.
    Rev 13:7 "And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations."
    Dan 5:19 " And for the majesty that he gave him, all people, nations, and languages, trembled and feared before him: whom he would he slew; and whom he would he kept alive; and whom he would he set up; and whom he would he put down."

    Nothing in Ez 38:12 points to these people as belonging to any place but Israel. Just as Israel was scattered among the nations, they will be gathered back to Israel from the nations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    6/ There is no attacks during the Millennium until at the end of the 1000 years. Revelation 20:7
    The conquest of God's people by the AC, Zechariah 14:1-2, happens 3 1/2 years before Jesus Returns.
    I agree with what you state about the MK.
    Zech 14:1-3
    "1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
    2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
    3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle."

    Verse 1 is the Day of the Lord's Vengeance. It has not happened to this point. The nations have to be gathered to Jerusalem first, so that their spoil can be divided in the midst of Jerusalem when they are defeated.
    Verse 3 is another reference to verse 1, the Day of the Lord's Vengeance.

    Additionally, Zech 14:4, God and the earthquake, is a reference to the earthquake causing the rocks and mountains to fall by "Him who sits on the throne" in Rev 6:16, also symbolized in Revelation 8:5, 11:19, and 16:8 as lightnings, and thunders, and voices and an earthquake. Jesus follows the throne of God to earth in Zech 5, coming with all of his saints as pictured in Dan 7:13. "I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him."

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    7/ There is only ONE people of God. John 17:20-23, Ephesians 4:4-6
    The 144,000 will be selected by Jesus out of the vast multitude of Christians. Revelation 14:1-5 We will be assigned to a tribe according to our family characteristics, or by our actual ancestry; which God knows. Amos 9:9
    The 'other Israelites' have already been converted, as Jesus mission to save the lost sheep of Israel, was eminently successful. We Christians ARE the Israelites of God, the Overcomers for Him and the Victorious ones, as seen in each of the seven Church's of Revelation.
    The 144,000 were not Christians before their conversion in Rev 7:3-4. Therefore, these can only be Israelites.
    Again, the distinction between Jew and Gentile will exist until the fulness of the Gentiles has come in.

    Jesus is still warning that he is coming as a thief in Rev 16:15, after 6 of the last 7 plagues have been poured out. Christians will have to miss all of the signs of Jesus' coming for him to come as a thief to us because he comes with the last sign, the last plague! Christians do not have to worry about an unexpected sign of worldwide disaster! 1 Thes 5:4-5
    "4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
    5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness."

    8/ No He is here spiritually now and He will guide His people as he did in ancient times. 1 Corinthians 10:4
    When we build the new Temple, Zechariah 6:15, the Shekinah glory will come into it. Ezekiel 43:1-5 It will leave temporarily when the AC desecrates the Temple, then be replaced by the physical Presence of Jesus at His Return. [/QUOTE]

    6pths, these things will come to pass as prophesied, but right now what we should be aware of and prepared for is the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster, that will kill millions and destroy our modern infrastructure.
    But as Revelation 3:3 says; If you don't wake up, I will come upon you like a thief...… Isaiah 35:4-5, Isaiah 29:18 & 24,[/QUOTE]

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    Re: The Timing of Events

    Quote Originally Posted by 6paths View Post


    How do you interpret Is 26:19-21?
    "19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
    20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
    21 For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain."

    Doesn't this passage state that the remains of the dead come out of the earth?

    Sure but this is poetry not accurate doctrine of resurrections.


    Doesn't John 5:28-29 say that the dead will come forth or be resurrected from the grave and not from heaven?
    "28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
    29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
    A grave is also where the spirits of the dead dwell such as hades. Heaven is also where the spirits of the righteous dead dwell.



    I agree with you that life is from God, and that God is in heaven.
    It just seems to me that the life from God, from heaven, is put into bodies that come out of the grave.
    The corruptible body from earth "puts on" incorruption whether living or dead. Incorruption is from heaven.

    Do you believe that the living have to go to heaven before they become incorruptible?
    No, they are changed into incorruptible before being raptured to the clouds of the Earth. The dead are already in heaven and that's where scripture says the new bodies are so they resurrect in heaven and follow Christ when he returns to the Earth. I see no evidence that The bodies and spirits in heaven go to the Earth to meet up with the saveds's old bodies and somehow mix the old and new bodies to have another newer body and then return to heaven to follow Christ as he leaves. Remember scripture says the saints follow Christ when he returns to the Earth so their resurrection must be heavenly which seems appropriate to me.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  8. #143
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    Re: The Timing of Events

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Sure but this is poetry not accurate doctrine of resurrections.




    A grave is also where the spirits of the dead dwell such as hades. Heaven is also where the spirits of the righteous dead dwell.





    No, they are changed into incorruptible before being raptured to the clouds of the Earth. The dead are already in heaven and that's where scripture says the new bodies are so they resurrect in heaven and follow Christ when he returns to the Earth. I see no evidence that The bodies and spirits in heaven go to the Earth to meet up with the saveds's old bodies and somehow mix the old and new bodies to have another newer body and then return to heaven to follow Christ as he leaves. Remember scripture says the saints follow Christ when he returns to the Earth so their resurrection must be heavenly which seems appropriate to me.
    That is all I have on the resurrection. Thank you for your responses.

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Sure but this is poetry not accurate doctrine of resurrections.




    A grave is also where the spirits of the dead dwell such as hades. Heaven is also where the spirits of the righteous dead dwell.





    No, they are changed into incorruptible before being raptured to the clouds of the Earth. The dead are already in heaven and that's where scripture says the new bodies are so they resurrect in heaven and follow Christ when he returns to the Earth. I see no evidence that The bodies and spirits in heaven go to the Earth to meet up with the saveds's old bodies and somehow mix the old and new bodies to have another newer body and then return to heaven to follow Christ as he leaves. Remember scripture says the saints follow Christ when he returns to the Earth so their resurrection must be heavenly which seems appropriate to me.
    That is all I have on the resurrection. Thank you for your responses.

  9. #144
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    Re: The Timing of Events

    [What is lacking in all of these Is chronologies is the emergence of an antichrist following the Day of the Lord's Vengeance.] 6paths quote
    Keraz; the AC comes to power by taking over the positions of the ten 'kings' of the final Empire. This One World Govt is well prophesied in Daniel 7:23-25 and Revelation 17:10-14. The OWG will be formed soon after the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster, in order to re-establish law and order in the world.

    [Why would these unbelievers think to say that their disaster is coming not only from the throne of God, but also from Jesus; if they could not see them?
    This would truly be a great miracle! Quote 6paths. ]
    Keraz; The Bible says that everyone will know this disaster is from God, they do not have to see God or Jesus to think that. In fact the world does not see Jesus until His Return in glory, several years later. It is quite common for secular people to attribute events to 'an act of God'.

    [I have still not found 1 instance where God's people will go to Israel after the Day of the Lord's Vengeance that is not a MK reference. Quote 6paths]
    Keraz; Ezekiel 34:11-31 is one of the better ones that tell of the sequence; firstly; a day of cloud and darkness, then the gathering of the 'sheep of the Lord, John 10:14, and the clincher is how they will know the Lord has helped them, by His deeds, not by Hs presence. Ezekiel 34:30
    Most of the other prophesies about the great second exodus, are also before the Millennium, proved again by how Jesus is not present yet. Ezekiel 46:12-18 shows that they will have a ruler, someone other than the Lord. Jeremiah 30:21, Hosea 1:11

    [Nothing in Ez 38:12 points to these people as belonging to any place but Israel. Just as Israel was scattered among the nations, they will be gathered back to Israel from the nations. quote 6paths]
    Keraz; We Christians are the heirs of all the promises of God, thru Jesus. 2 Corinthians 1:20, Romans 8:16-18, Ephesians 3:6 We ARE the Israel of God, currently scattered among the nations, but soon to be gathered into all of the holy Land.
    Ezekiel 38:12 does not relate to the Jewish State of Israel, and the G/M attack isn't the same one as described to happen at the end of the Millennium.
    So who do you think those people, living in peace and prosperity; are?

    [The 144,000 were not Christians before their conversion in Rev 7:3-4. Therefore, these can only be Israelites. quote 6paths].
    Keraz; Purely your unsupported opinion.
    The 144,000 are selected out of the vast multitude, they are all faithful Christians. Revelation 14:5, and Revelation 12:6-17 proves it.

    [Quote; Jesus is still warning that he is coming as a thief in Rev 16:15, after 6 of the last 7 plagues have been poured out. Christians will have to miss all of the signs of Jesus' coming for him to come as a thief to us because he comes with the last sign, the last plague! Christians do not have to worry about an unexpected sign of worldwide disaster! 1 Thes 5:4-5
    "4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
    5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness." Quote 6paths]
    Keraz; You obviously think that you will be removed, raptured; before anything nasty happens. Not going to happen; we must all endure until the end. Matthew 24:13, Revelation 14:12
    Sadly; most Christians are clueless about God's plans for them in the end times. They are 'in the dark' and only after the Day of the Lord's fiery wrath, will their eyes be opened and their ears unstopped. Isaiah 35:4-5, Isaiah 29:18

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