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Thread: Does anyone believe in Evolution anymore?

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    Does anyone believe in Evolution anymore?

    The Bible tells us that in the beginning God created the earth in seven days, not a million years. It seems that the more we learn as scientific and archaeological finds come to light, the less people believe in Evolution. Scientist summarizing Darwinism tell us as follows: “Life on earth evolved gradually beginning with one primitive species — perhaps a self-replicating molecule — that lived more than 3.5 billion years ago; it then branched out over time, throwing off many new and diverse species; and the mechanism for most (but not all) of evolutionary change is natural selection.”(Jerry A. Coyne, Why Evolution Is True (New York: Viking, 2009), p. 3.)

    Yet there are no not one piece of evidence found of a gradual change from a "self-replicating molecule" to all the different species. There are no evidence of gradualism or that later species should have traits that make them look like the descendants of earlier ones. We don't find a fish changing to land crawler or a lizard changing to bird, in fact there is no evidence whatsoever of the ancestors or fossils that would show the lineage of any species. People are finding out that Evolution is a empty shell of false ideas and arguments, that is being exposed like the story of the King with no clothes.

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    Re: Does anyone believe in Evolution anymore?

    Quote Originally Posted by hobie View Post
    The Bible tells us that in the beginning God created the earth in seven days, not a million years. It seems that the more we learn as scientific and archaeological finds come to light, the less people believe in Evolution. Scientist summarizing Darwinism tell us as follows: “Life on earth evolved gradually beginning with one primitive species — perhaps a self-replicating molecule — that lived more than 3.5 billion years ago; it then branched out over time, throwing off many new and diverse species; and the mechanism for most (but not all) of evolutionary change is natural selection.”(Jerry A. Coyne, Why Evolution Is True (New York: Viking, 2009), p. 3.)

    Yet there are no not one piece of evidence found of a gradual change from a "self-replicating molecule" to all the different species. There are no evidence of gradualism or that later species should have traits that make them look like the descendants of earlier ones. We don't find a fish changing to land crawler or a lizard changing to bird, in fact there is no evidence whatsoever of the ancestors or fossils that would show the lineage of any species. People are finding out that Evolution is a empty shell of false ideas and arguments, that is being exposed like the story of the King with no clothes.
    The reason that people (unreasonably) embrace Evolution is not because it is scientific, as you have pointed out, but because of the ramifications in believing that there is a Creator. If it is once admitted that there is a Creator, then we, and that all around us, are His creature. And if we are His creature, then we belong to Him - for He made us. And if we belong to Him we are bound to hear His instructions. And that ... is where a scientifically minded man chooses superstition above science. Man has an innate hate and horror of being subject to God, and so he will rather hold to a fairy tale than look at the facts. The fairy tale is more convenient.

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    Re: Does anyone believe in Evolution anymore?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    The reason that people (unreasonably) embrace Evolution is not because it is scientific, as you have pointed out, but because of the ramifications in believing that there is a Creator.
    What would you say about those who believe in God and that evolution is part of His creative design?
    「耶和華聖潔無比,獨一無二,沒有磐石像我們的上帝。
    撒母耳記上 (1 Samuel) 2:2

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    Re: Does anyone believe in Evolution anymore?

    Quote Originally Posted by hobie View Post
    The Bible tells us that in the beginning God created the earth in seven days, not a million years. It seems that the more we learn as scientific and archaeological finds come to light, the less people believe in Evolution. Scientist summarizing Darwinism tell us as follows: “Life on earth evolved gradually beginning with one primitive species — perhaps a self-replicating molecule — that lived more than 3.5 billion years ago; it then branched out over time, throwing off many new and diverse species; and the mechanism for most (but not all) of evolutionary change is natural selection.”(Jerry A. Coyne, Why Evolution Is True (New York: Viking, 2009), p. 3.)

    Yet there are no not one piece of evidence found of a gradual change from a "self-replicating molecule" to all the different species. There are no evidence of gradualism or that later species should have traits that make them look like the descendants of earlier ones. We don't find a fish changing to land crawler or a lizard changing to bird, in fact there is no evidence whatsoever of the ancestors or fossils that would show the lineage of any species. People are finding out that Evolution is a empty shell of false ideas and arguments, that is being exposed like the story of the King with no clothes.
    I spent a lot of time, from my position of ignorance, debating this with someone much more knowledgeable than me. And the experience was beneficial to me.

    My thought is that Darwinism is an outmoded form of evolution, but evolution will *never* go away in this present evil age. And that's because it's all people have who do not begin with the presupposition that a Creator exists.

    What these scientists begin with is the reality that all of these things existed, the planet--with long ages--and a great number of species that appeared in different periods. Nobody can say whether the evidence found shows a definite pattern, but we have what we have.

    Somehow one thing led to another thing. If you don't have a Creator in mind, what you have is described as evolution. Gradually you get species after species after species. And you have to posit that one thing somehow managed to lead to another thing. Without supernatural interference all you have are naturalistic explanations.

    How would you explain a miraculous healing? One day you have cancer, and the next day it's gone. You can only describe it as damaged tissue one day and undamaged tissue the next day.

    You can't, unless you presume as much, say that some thing that is supernatural stepped into our world and manipulated the tissues. These people don't assume something supernatural happened because they don't believe the supernatural can even be legitimately described using the language of natural realities. I believe Hobbes said that kind of thing, as well as many philosophers of his brand later.

    But yes, I think the scientists have moved beyond Darwin. They just haven't given up evolution--that's all they have.

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    Re: Does anyone believe in Evolution anymore?

    Evolution without a Creator makes no sense.

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    Re: Does anyone believe in Evolution anymore?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aviyah View Post
    What would you say about those who believe in God and that evolution is part of His creative design?
    Aviyah, I used to be one of those people in my mid to late 20's.

    I erred because I didn't not fully understand Genesis nor Darwin. I had a superficial knowledge of both - allowing me to believe the two could co-exist.

    When I educated myself on both, I understood evolution denied what was in the Genesis account. I choose to believe the Creation account only.

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    Re: Does anyone believe in Evolution anymore?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aviyah View Post
    What would you say about those who believe in God and that evolution is part of His creative design?
    I am probably better off letting God answer that Himself. Genesis 1:20-29:

    20 "And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
    21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
    22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
    23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
    24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
    25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
    26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
    27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
    28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
    29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat."


    • There were no intermediate "kinds" needed
    • Man is not after any "kind" until he reached God's image and likeness. Both male and female are unique at creation
    • The word "create" in the Hebrew means "created out of nothing". Where the word "made" is used it refers to its substance - earth, as is seen in Isaiah 43:7; "Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created ("bara" - Heb.) him for my glory, I have formed ("yatsar" - Heb.) him; yea, I have made ("asha" - Heb) him." Man is made of three parts. (i) The dust of the earth is clay and so he is "formed" like a clay vessel. (ii) The spirit of man is the breath of God - already existing, so man's spirit is "made". Man's soul never existed before so at the meeting of clay and God's breath, man BECAME a living soul - that is, "created" out of nothing.

    In Genesis 1:11-12;

    11 "And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
    12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good."


    This law of anything with seed in itself bringing forth ONLY "its kind" is observable and unchangeable before our eyes. We find no mutations reproducing another "kind" in the whole of nature.

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    Re: Does anyone believe in Evolution anymore?

    I have no issue with evolution as means of creation of the diversity of life as we see it on earth today.

    Likewise, I don't really care if one adheres to a YEC position.

    I very strongly disagree with organizations like Answers in Genesis that demand acceptance of their form of YEC to mark you as a genuine Christian.

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    Re: Does anyone believe in Evolution anymore?

    This quote is getting dated now, but it's from one of my favorite YEC scientists, Dr. Todd Wood:
    Evolution is not a theory in crisis. It is not teetering on the verge of collapse. It has not failed as a scientific explanation. There is evidence for evolution, gobs and gobs of it. It is not just speculation or a faith choice or an assumption or a religion. It is a productive framework for lots of biological research, and it has amazing explanatory power. There is no conspiracy to hide the truth about the failure of evolution. There has really been no failure of evolution as a scientific theory. It works, and it works well
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    Re: Does anyone believe in Evolution anymore?

    Quote Originally Posted by ProDeo View Post
    Evolution without a Creator makes no sense.
    I agree, but that's all the world has, who do not presuppose a Creator. So they are forced to speculate about how, over time, different species managed to arrive. Smart people will always come up with some ingenious explanation.

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    Re: Does anyone believe in Evolution anymore?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    I agree, but that's all the world has, who do not presuppose a Creator. So they are forced to speculate about how, over time, different species managed to arrive. Smart people will always come up with some ingenious explanation.
    Oh, the arrogance.
    Do not say, “Why were the old days better than these?” For it is not wise to ask such questions.
    Ecc 7:10

    John777 exists to me only in quoted form.



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    Re: Does anyone believe in Evolution anymore?

    Quote Originally Posted by teddyv View Post
    I have no issue with evolution as means of creation of the diversity of life as we see it on earth today.

    Likewise, I don't really care if one adheres to a YEC position.

    I very strongly disagree with organizations like Answers in Genesis that demand acceptance of their form of YEC to mark you as a genuine Christian.
    Young Earth Creationists appear to be overly dogmatic to me. And that causes me to question their level of "certainty." I agree with the evidence, which God created Man to have--an Old Earth. If it was otherwise, I'm good with that. But so far, the evidence suggests an Old Earth.

    God said, "Come now, let us reason together." God will reason with honest men. God doesn't load the evidence in the wrong direction. He leads men back to Himself, in my opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by teddyv View Post
    Oh, the arrogance.
    Really? How so? I'm not anti-evolution. There are questions about how to define it.

    I'm not against naturalistic explanations of cause and effect. Certainly God guided the process. If we played back a video of the appearance of species in Creation, what would that look like? And would we call it "Evolution?"

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    Re: Does anyone believe in Evolution anymore?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Young Earth Creationists appear to be overly dogmatic to me. And that causes me to question their level of "certainty." I agree with the evidence, which God created Man to have--an Old Earth. If it was otherwise, I'm good with that. But so far, the evidence suggests an Old Earth.

    God said, "Come now, let us reason together." God will reason with honest men. God doesn't load the evidence in the wrong direction. He leads men back to Himself, in my opinion.



    Really? How so? I'm not anti-evolution. There are questions about how to define it.

    I'm not against naturalistic explanations of cause and effect. Certainly God guided the process. If we played back a video of the appearance of species in Creation, what would that look like? And would we call it "Evolution?"
    Saying people are forced to speculate is presuming a lot about those that work in the biological sciences. Sentences like "Smart people will always come up with ingenious explanations" also rings with sarcasm. Perhaps you are referring to people who are incorporating evolutionary theory within their worldview, in which case I misread your intention of the post.
    Do not say, “Why were the old days better than these?” For it is not wise to ask such questions.
    Ecc 7:10

    John777 exists to me only in quoted form.



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    Re: Does anyone believe in Evolution anymore?

    Quote Originally Posted by teddyv View Post
    Saying people are forced to speculate is presuming a lot about those that work in the biological sciences. Sentences like "Smart people will always come up with ingenious explanations" also rings with sarcasm. Perhaps you are referring to people who are incorporating evolutionary theory within their worldview, in which case I misread your intention of the post.
    Yes, I think you misread the intention of my post. Sarcasm isn't what I'm interested in. As I said, I learned to respect the intellectual I was arguing with, and actually liked him. His brother was a scientist, and I have nothing but respect for that. He made a number of arguments for the likelihood of evolutionary development, and the arguments went beyond my "pay grade."

    I can't argue, for example, about the commonalities of retrovirus DNA in man and animals! He made great arguments for multiple proofs for dating the earth over a long period of time.

    To ignore that is to ignore reason, I should think? I don't believe we should put religious dogmatism over scientific realities. We need to consider where the two may be in agreement.

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    Re: Does anyone believe in Evolution anymore?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    I agree, but that's all the world has, who do not presuppose a Creator. So they are forced to speculate about how, over time, different species managed to arrive. Smart people will always come up with some ingenious explanation.
    Smart people, in the sense they gathered knowledge, can not be 100% atheist.

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