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Thread: Meaning of 666

  1. #16
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    Re: Meaning of 666

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    Just some thoughts. Each of the three numbers in 666 has a root meaning, I don't fully understand the details but the root meanings seem to be as follows

    This is know as root fallacy. chi does not mean unmarried. Xi does not mean to do good. They are simply letters that have a numerical designation. Stigma does mean a mark but in this usage it's used as a number (6).
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  2. #17
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    Re: Meaning of 666

    Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
    Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is 666.

    It's clear the 666 is the number of his name...most likely the letters adding up to 666. There's a lot of claims out there that this or that name adds up but sometimes it's not accurate.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  3. #18
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    Re: Meaning of 666

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
    Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is 666.

    It's clear the 666 is the number of his name...most likely the letters adding up to 666. There's a lot of claims out there that this or that name adds up but sometimes it's not accurate.
    The wording implies another method than numerology, because numerology and specifically gematria was common knowledge back then.

    Yet knowing this, the Bible requires wisdom/understanding regarding 666 implying its not the simple standard way of converting names to numbers. The wording is strange requiring us to calculate his number although the number is already given, being 666.

  4. #19
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    Re: Meaning of 666

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    This is know as root fallacy. chi does not mean unmarried. Xi does not mean to do good. They are simply letters that have a numerical designation. Stigma does mean a mark but in this usage it's used as a number (6).
    I found those roots of those numbers using the Strongs dictionary. I'm not claiming that is the correct association, was just trying to open the discussion to see if anyone has better ideas. The matching of those three Greek letters making up 666, with the 3 Arabic symbols meaning "Islam, in the name of Allah" is also an interesting theory. Ie was John actually reading an Arabic sentence meaning "Islam in the name of Allah" , but thought he was reading 3 Greek letters? It is strange how those 3 symbols occur in Greek letters but also Arabic words.

  5. #20
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    Re: Meaning of 666

    Here is the approximate match between the 3 Greek letters found in the text of Rev 13, and the words Islam (crossed sword) and "in the name of Allah" images.jpeg

    (click on image if you need to expand it)

  6. #21

    Re: Meaning of 666

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    We are conditioned to think 666. But scripture gives the number in writing first "hexakosioi", "hexakonta", "hex", and then only the figure "chi xi stigma".
    That's right; the oldest manuscripts spell the number out in words (hexakosioi hexēkonta hex). It is later manuscripts that use the somewhat strange Greek numerals χξϛ.

    That last symbol, which we call "stigma," was only invented 800 years after Christ, as a shorthand for the letter combination στ = ST (prior to that, the Greeks used ϝ to mean 6). It should not be confused with the rather similar "final sigma" (ς), which would have the numerical value 200.

    Trying to assign meanings to the numerals χξϛ is not helpful. We know what they mean. They mean six hundred sixty six.

    Of course, what that means is the real puzzle.

  7. #22

    Re: Meaning of 666

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    Here is the approximate match between the 3 Greek letters found in the text of Rev 13, and the words Islam (crossed sword) and "in the name of Allah" images.jpeg

    (click on image if you need to expand it)
    There are several reasons why that is ridiculous. First, John wrote hexakosioi hexēkonta hex, not χξϛ.

    Second, the symbol ϛ was only invented many centuries after John was writing, so obviously John never used it.

    Third, John very clearly states that he is giving us a number.

    Fourth, the passage is not about Islam.

    Fifth, that's absolutely nothing like the Arabic for "in the name of Allah" anyway -- it would be بِسۡمِ اللّٰہِ

    Sixth, "Islam" does not mean "crossed sword."

  8. #23
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    Re: Meaning of 666

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    Here is the approximate match between the 3 Greek letters found in the text of Rev 13, and the words Islam (crossed sword) and "in the name of Allah" images.jpeg

    (click on image if you need to expand it)
    Lots of coincidences take place, and appear to draw connections between similar things. But this has nothing to do with *interpretation* of a text. For example, we may find many things add up to or utilized the number 666, and yet have nothing to do with the number of the Beast.

    I continue to think that John was speaking to his contemporary audience, who would understand he was using gematria. It was the numerical equivalent of a man's name, and would be impressed upon the forehead or hand of those who follow this "Beast."

    Since we don't use gematria today, we have to wonder how this will be fulfilled? Here is an interesting perspective--one that I could attach myself to. I generally focus upon how those in the Early Church viewed the Revelation. And I do believe that John secretly pointed to Rome, hiding more explcit identifications with it to avoid persecution.

    https://covenanterreformation.wordpr...ists-critique/
    The historicist view is that 666 is the calculation of the Greek word, LATEINOS (the Latin one). The earliest record of this interpretation is found in Irenaeus’ book, Against Heresies (180 AD). I will let Rev. Wilhelmus à Brakel explain the reason for this understanding.
    The Greeks calculated with their alphabet. Their letters were also numbers. That means that one word can represent a certain matter, place, or person, as well as a number. This was the number 666. The Greek letters, which were used for this number, were also a number of man, spelling a human name. Shortly after the time of the apostles the number 666 translated to the name LATEINOZ, the first king of the region where Rome is located. The land was called Latium after him. And the language they spoke was called the Latin language, as it is still called.

  9. #24
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    Re: Meaning of 666

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    Here is the approximate match between the 3 Greek letters found in the text of Rev 13, and the words Islam (crossed sword) and "in the name of Allah"

    (click on image if you need to expand it)
    666 in the Greek manuscripts does not look like that.

    666 and Allah greek - Copy.jpg
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  10. #25
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    Re: Meaning of 666

    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  11. #26
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    Re: Meaning of 666

    A good discussion of this is found here:

    https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.c...evelation-1318


    "Bruce Alderman has given a very good answer to the question. It emerges clearly that Shoebat’s claim about the Vatican manuscript is a blatant fraud. Of course, if he knew anything about Greek he would know that all Greek manuscripts at the time of the composition of Revelation are written in majuscules (capital letters), so there is no way that the original text of Revelation would have used miniscules. But this does not bother Shoebat.

    I would like to address a different aspect of the same question. Allāh is the name of God in the Arabic language. It is used not only by Muslims, but also by the many millions of Arabic-speaking Christians in Egypt, Lebanon, Palestine, Syria, Iraq and other countries, and they write it exactly the same way as the Muslims: الله. Shoebat is thus actually claiming that the “number of the beast” is “God”. If I were a Christian I would surely say that this is an obscene blasphemy. Even as a non-Christian I need to say that in an age where the Christians in Syria, Iraq etc. are sorely pressed by their enemies it is enormously irresponsible to insinuate that the Arabic-speaking Christians are in fact worshipers of the beast."
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  12. #27

    Re: Meaning of 666

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    I continue to think that John was speaking to his contemporary audience, who would understand he was using gematria.
    Agreed. Personally, I think it's a reference to Nero (or rather, since Nero was dead, a "new Nero").

  13. #28

    Re: Meaning of 666

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Of course, if he knew anything about Greek he would know that all Greek manuscripts at the time of the composition of Revelation are written in majuscules (capital letters)
    Yeah, that too.

    None of the oldest Greek manuscripts use numerals (they all spell out six hundred and sixty six in words), but the numerals of the time would have looked something like ΧΞϜ.

    In the Codex Sinaiticus, spelled out in words, the number looks like this:

    666.jpg

  14. #29
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    Re: Meaning of 666

    Quote Originally Posted by Radagast View Post
    Agreed. Personally, I think it's a reference to Nero (or rather, since Nero was dead, a "new Nero").
    I held to Nero until just recently I read this is largely a modern view. That means the message would've had no value in the Early Church. So I'm exploring the King of Rome view.

  15. #30

    Re: Meaning of 666

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    I held to Nero until just recently I read this is largely a modern view. That means the message would've had no value in the Early Church. So I'm exploring the King of Rome view.
    Well, the "Nero" interpretation fits well with the common myth at the time that Nero would be reborn. A number of early Christian writers take the "Nero" view, or say that Nero will return before the Antichrist. For example, Commodianus, writing around the year 250 (link):

    Then, doubtless, the world shall be finished when he shall appear. He himself shall divide the globe into three ruling powers, when, moreover, Nero shall be raised up from hell, Elias shall first come to seal the beloved ones; at which things the region of Africa and the northern nation, the whole earth on all sides, for seven years shall tremble. But Elias shall occupy the half of the time, Nero shall occupy half. Then the whore Babylon, being reduced to ashes, its embers shall thence advance to Jerusalem; and the Latin conqueror shall then say, I am Christ, whom ye always pray to; and, indeed, the original ones who were deceived combine to praise him. He does many wonders, since his is the false prophet. Especially that they may believe him, his image shall speak. The Almighty has given it power to appear such.

    Of course, "King of Rome" and "Nero Reborn" wind up meaning exactly the same thing.

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