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Thread: Meaning of 666

  1. #31
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    Re: Meaning of 666

    Quote Originally Posted by Radagast View Post
    Well, the "Nero" interpretation fits well with the common myth at the time that Nero would be reborn. A number of early Christian writers take the "Nero" view, or say that Nero will return before the Antichrist. For example, Commodianus, writing around the year 250 (link):

    Then, doubtless, the world shall be finished when he shall appear. He himself shall divide the globe into three ruling powers, when, moreover, Nero shall be raised up from hell, Elias shall first come to seal the beloved ones; at which things the region of Africa and the northern nation, the whole earth on all sides, for seven years shall tremble. But Elias shall occupy the half of the time, Nero shall occupy half. Then the whore Babylon, being reduced to ashes, its embers shall thence advance to Jerusalem; and the Latin conqueror shall then say, I am Christ, whom ye always pray to; and, indeed, the original ones who were deceived combine to praise him. He does many wonders, since his is the false prophet. Especially that they may believe him, his image shall speak. The Almighty has given it power to appear such.

    Of course, "King of Rome" and "Nero Reborn" wind up meaning exactly the same thing.
    Commodianus' views don't fit in well with my eschatology, but it's an interesting read. Thanks!

  2. #32
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    Re: Meaning of 666

    I'd like to repeat what I said earlier on the subject of 666.
    I enjoy this quote...

    https://covenanterreformation.wordpr...ists-critique/
    "The historicist view is that 666 is the calculation of the Greek word, LATEINOS (the Latin one). The earliest record of this interpretation is found in Irenaeus’ book, Against Heresies (180 AD). I will let Rev. Wilhelmus à Brakel explain the reason for this understanding.
    The Greeks calculated with their alphabet. Their letters were also numbers. That means that one word can represent a certain matter, place, or person, as well as a number. This was the number 666. The Greek letters, which were used for this number, were also a number of man, spelling a human name. Shortly after the time of the apostles the number 666 translated to the name LATEINOZ, the first king of the region where Rome is located. The land was called Latium after him. And the language they spoke was called the Latin language, as it is still called."

    So what is 666? I really don't know, but it's fun to speculate. Here are a few of my thoughts, based on the above quote. 666 appears to be the numerical value of a significant name in the time of the Apostle John. John could not give out the name of a well-known Roman figure, and view him as "evil." So he provides a riddle that he knows fellow Christians can solve, and one of those names may represent a Roman king.

    Some thought the name adds up to Nero, though that is questionable. It seems more natural that John is depicting a Roman emperor in general, rather than a specific king. The thought is that the Beast will be a Roman emperor, of sorts, and control European commerce and business. Those who serve him will in effect be serving an unholy, Satanic cause. The Nero theory may be a relatively recent view in history, which would, in my mind, rule it out.

    It does not seem logical that the Christians of our time are supposed to figure out the riddle and apply numerical values to any prominent name or political figure today. That's because we no longer assign numerical values to letters in a name. So my guess is that we have to allow the church of John's day solve the riddle, and then apply the results in our day. That would mean that 666 adds up to be a "Latin king," which in our time would mean the Antichrist is also a "Latin king." This numerical value, or name, applied to commerce and business in Europe, would in effect be the stamp of the Antichrist upon them. And those who agree to do business through the Antichristian Empire are stamping themselves as members of that evil Empire.

  3. #33
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    Re: Meaning of 666

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    I'd like to repeat what I said earlier on the subject of 666.
    I enjoy this quote...

    https://covenanterreformation.wordpr...ists-critique/
    "The historicist view is that 666 is the calculation of the Greek word, LATEINOS (the Latin one). The earliest record of this interpretation is found in Irenaeus’ book, Against Heresies (180 AD). I will let Rev. Wilhelmus à Brakel explain the reason for this understanding.
    The Greeks calculated with their alphabet. Their letters were also numbers. That means that one word can represent a certain matter, place, or person, as well as a number. This was the number 666. The Greek letters, which were used for this number, were also a number of man, spelling a human name. Shortly after the time of the apostles the number 666 translated to the name LATEINOZ, the first king of the region where Rome is located. The land was called Latium after him. And the language they spoke was called the Latin language, as it is still called."

    So what is 666? I really don't know, but it's fun to speculate. Here are a few of my thoughts, based on the above quote. 666 appears to be the numerical value of a significant name in the time of the Apostle John. John could not give out the name of a well-known Roman figure, and view him as "evil." So he provides a riddle that he knows fellow Christians can solve, and one of those names may represent a Roman king.

    Some thought the name adds up to Nero, though that is questionable. It seems more natural that John is depicting a Roman emperor in general, rather than a specific king. The thought is that the Beast will be a Roman emperor, of sorts, and control European commerce and business. Those who serve him will in effect be serving an unholy, Satanic cause. The Nero theory may be a relatively recent view in history, which would, in my mind, rule it out.

    It does not seem logical that the Christians of our time are supposed to figure out the riddle and apply numerical values to any prominent name or political figure today. That's because we no longer assign numerical values to letters in a name. So my guess is that we have to allow the church of John's day solve the riddle, and then apply the results in our day. That would mean that 666 adds up to be a "Latin king," which in our time would mean the Antichrist is also a "Latin king." This numerical value, or name, applied to commerce and business in Europe, would in effect be the stamp of the Antichrist upon them. And those who agree to do business through the Antichristian Empire are stamping themselves as members of that evil Empire.
    John was writing to the present day Christians....in his day. It wasn't hard for them to figure out the numbers meant Nero. It was written that way so if the Roman's got their hands on his letter it would make no sense to them since they didn't assign numbers to letters. https://www.equip.org/bible_answers/...eaning-of-666/

    God bless
    "People do not drift toward holiness. Apart from grace-driven effort, people do not gravitate toward godliness, prayer, obedience to Scripture, faith, and delight in the Lord. We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; We drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; We drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation; we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism; we slide toward godlessness and convince ourselves we have been liberated?" - D A Carson

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    Re: Meaning of 666

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    666 appears to be the numerical value of a significant name in the time of the Apostle John.
    How? John wrote that the beast was "is not" meaning he didn't exist at Johns time. He also said this, "And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. "

    So the name could not be a past or present Roman ruler as it would be a future ruler and he wouldn't continue very long. The last two beasts in Rev only last 42 months and then are cast into the LOF by Christ at the second coming.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: Meaning of 666

    Maybe the answer is 200 million. Let me explain.

    The use of that word "number" in the NT specifically relates to head-counts of number of followers.
    Rev 13. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man. That number is 666.

    Let the person who has insight calculate the head-count of the followers of the demon-king, for it relates to the head-count of a man of 666 followers.

    There is only one man in the Bible who has a head count of 666 followers, and that is Adonikam which means "the king rises"

    Só now its easy to calculate the followers of the demon king who rises, it's 200 million according to Rev 9:16. This verse describes the rising of the demon king Apollyon out the pit with 200 million followers.

    I'm not saying this is the answer, just another thought to add to this discussion.

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    Re: Meaning of 666

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    Maybe the answer is 200 million. Let me explain.

    The use of that word "number" in the NT specifically relates to head-counts of number of followers.
    Rev 13. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man. That number is 666.

    Let the person who has insight calculate the head-count of the followers of the demon-king, for it relates to the head-count of a man of 666 followers.

    There is only one man in the Bible who has a head count of 666 followers, and that is Adonikam which means "the king rises"

    Só now its easy to calculate the followers of the demon king who rises, it's 200 million according to Rev 9:16. This verse describes the rising of the demon king Apollyon out the pit with 200 million followers.

    I'm not saying this is the answer, just another thought to add to this discussion.

    Why would the king of the pit kills his own people? It appears these people were worshipping devils but only one third where killed for now..

    20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:


    Are you sure the army in the 6th trumpet is evil? 5th trumpet where locusts from the pit, 6th trumpet horses. The 6th trumpet army appears to be the good guys.

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    Re: Meaning of 666

    Quote Originally Posted by moonglow View Post
    John was writing to the present day Christians....in his day. It wasn't hard for them to figure out the numbers meant Nero. It was written that way so if the Roman's got their hands on his letter it would make no sense to them since they didn't assign numbers to letters. https://www.equip.org/bible_answers/...eaning-of-666/

    God bless
    I agree that it had to have been written to Christians in John's day. However, I don't now believe that Nero was being referred to. I don't believe those in the Early Church identified him as such, which they likely would've done if this gematria was so intuitive.

    "The fact is that there is no historical evidence that the early church interpreted 666 as the calculation of Nero’s name." Click below.

    Also the following website details that the Hebrew spelling of the name Nero Caesar, in order to tally 666, would have to use an uncommon variant spelling of the name and title. And at any rate, the book of Revelation was written in Greek to those reading Greek, and so would not revert to a Hebrew spelling of the words Nero Caesar. click

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    Re: Meaning of 666

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    How? John wrote that the beast was "is not" meaning he didn't exist at Johns time. He also said this, "And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. "

    So the name could not be a past or present Roman ruler as it would be a future ruler and he wouldn't continue very long. The last two beasts in Rev only last 42 months and then are cast into the LOF by Christ at the second coming.
    Yea, I know. This is what makes this passage among the most difficult for me to interpret. Again, this is pure speculation on my part.

    The way I answer this is as follows. First we must question: How can the Beast both be written as "is not" and "is" at the same time?

    Rev 17. 8 The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction... 10 They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come.

    I think it can only be such if we understand the Beast as both a succession of kings and the final king. He "is not" in the sense that as the final king he has yet to come into existence. And he "is" in the sense that the Roman Empire already existed as part of the succession leading to the final king.

    To make it even more complicated, John said not just that he "is," but also that he "was." How did he preexist his final rule, when it is said that he didn't even exist in John's day?

    He "was," as I view it, in the sense that he began with the 4 beasts and was declared "fatally wounded" at the death of Christ. Though the Roman Empire continued for another 350+ years after the death of Christ, I believe Christ's death signified the death of the Beast even before it is to be realized at the 2nd Coming.

    I'm wide open on this one!

  9. #39
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    Re: Meaning of 666

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    Maybe the answer is 200 million. Let me explain.

    The use of that word "number" in the NT specifically relates to head-counts of number of followers.
    Rev 13. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man. That number is 666.

    Let the person who has insight calculate the head-count of the followers of the demon-king, for it relates to the head-count of a man of 666 followers.

    There is only one man in the Bible who has a head count of 666 followers, and that is Adonikam which means "the king rises"

    Só now its easy to calculate the followers of the demon king who rises, it's 200 million according to Rev 9:16. This verse describes the rising of the demon king Apollyon out the pit with 200 million followers.

    I'm not saying this is the answer, just another thought to add to this discussion.
    I have to give you credit. That is an unusual one!

    But this is the reason I place so much credence on how the Church Fathers interpreted the Revelation. If the Holy Spirit failed to communicate to them, how on earth can He expect us to understand? The Early Church Fathers understood gematria and used it. But they did not identify Nero in this way. Rather, Irenaeus identified a primitive King of Rome as perhaps symbolic of the fact the Antichrist would be a latter day King of Rome.

    The "Mark" was the imperial Roman seal impressed upon coins in that day. It is, I think, symbolic of individuals and businesses allowing Antichrist to be impressed upon their thinking (their foreheads) and their actions (their hands). Unless businesses swear allegiance, in their thinking and in their behaviors, to the Antichrist, they will not be allowed to do business by the Antichrist.

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    Re: Meaning of 666

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    I have to give you credit. That is an unusual one!

    But this is the reason I place so much credence on how the Church Fathers interpreted the Revelation. If the Holy Spirit failed to communicate to them, how on earth can He expect us to understand? The Early Church Fathers understood gematria and used it. But they did not identify Nero in this way. Rather, Irenaeus identified a primitive King of Rome as perhaps symbolic of the fact the Antichrist would be a latter day King of Rome.

    The "Mark" was the imperial Roman seal impressed upon coins in that day. It is, I think, symbolic of individuals and businesses allowing Antichrist to be impressed upon their thinking (their foreheads) and their actions (their hands). Unless businesses swear allegiance, in their thinking and in their behaviors, to the Antichrist, they will not be allowed to do business by the Antichrist.
    I just find the fulfillment in Nero way too vague. We are after all referring to a Rev 13 beast of the final 3.5 years of persecution before Jesus comes, matching the Dan 7 little horn of 3. 5 years until Jesus comes.

    Not only that, but this takes some insight, not just common gematria:
    Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast

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    Re: Meaning of 666

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    I just find the fulfillment in Nero way too vague. We are after all referring to a Rev 13 beast of the final 3.5 years of persecution before Jesus comes, matching the Dan 7 little horn of 3. 5 years until Jesus comes.

    Not only that, but this takes some insight, not just common gematria:
    Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast
    I don't know about that! Gematria is, in fact, a form of special insight, a kind of "wisdom." John seemed to regularly infer something about the Roman Empire without actually stating it. He utilized riddles. We are *supposed to* be able to understand this. And if this was for the Early Church, the Early Church was *supposed to* be able to resolve the riddle.

    I do agree with you that Nero, as interesting a choice as he is, cannot be the Antichrist. He's dead! It is not uncommon for the Lord, when prophesying something, shows parallels in more immediate instances. For example, after reading about the endtimes once, I opened the local newspaper with the heading "End of the Age? Earthquakes, famines, war!" or something like that. God confirms prophecy by utilizing more local events as signs.

    Nero served as a good prototype of the Antichrist, just as Antiochus 4 did. His name even added up to 666 in the Hebrew language. And a rumor was spread that he is coming again. In my view, this is just God's way of demonstrating the reality before its time. It's a model of things to come.

    Ezekiel mentioned the mark...

    Eze 9.3 Then the Lord called to the man clothed in linen who had the writing kit at his side 4 and said to him, “Go throughout the city of Jerusalem and put a mark on the foreheads of those who grieve and lament over all the detestable things that are done in it.”

    This was a spiritual mark, seen only by angels. I think the same thing may be true of the Antichrist's mark. Those who think like the Beast, and act like the beast, will show that they are marked on the forehead and on the hand. Angels will know who they are.

    Nero never had anybody marked. The false prophet may accomplish this by demanding loyalty to the image of the Beast. This "image" may represent the restore Roman Imperial System of paganism. It is "given life" by the restoration of the "deceased" ancient Roman system, which was pagan and judged by the death of Christ.

  12. #42
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    Re: Meaning of 666

    People had to buy and sell using the image of Nero on their money: http://www.wildwinds.com/coins/ric/nero/i.html

    People had to buy and sell using the image of Nero on their money: http://www.wildwinds.com/coins/ric/nero/i.html
    "People do not drift toward holiness. Apart from grace-driven effort, people do not gravitate toward godliness, prayer, obedience to Scripture, faith, and delight in the Lord. We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; We drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; We drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation; we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism; we slide toward godlessness and convince ourselves we have been liberated?" - D A Carson

  13. #43
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    Re: Meaning of 666

    Quote Originally Posted by moonglow View Post
    People had to buy and sell using the image of Nero on their money: http://www.wildwinds.com/coins/ric/nero/i.html

    People had to buy and sell using the image of Nero on their money: http://www.wildwinds.com/coins/ric/nero/i.html
    Did Nero persecute the church for the last 3.5 years before the second coming? This end - times beast that is associated with a mark and an image is destroyed at the second coming:
    19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army. 20 But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.

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    Re: Meaning of 666

    Quote Originally Posted by moonglow View Post
    People had to buy and sell using the image of Nero on their money: http://www.wildwinds.com/coins/ric/nero/i.html

    People had to buy and sell using the image of Nero on their money: http://www.wildwinds.com/coins/ric/nero/i.html
    That's basically true of most cultures and their money...not remotely close to what Rev 13 says:


    Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

    Did Nero cause fire to come down from heaven?

    Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

    Did Nero perform miracles?

    Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

    Did Nero give life to this image?

    Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

    Did Nero give anyone a mark in their right hands OR in their forehead?

    ev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
    Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
    Rev 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
    Rev 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
    Rev 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
    Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
    Rev 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
    Rev 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
    Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.


    Also, did Nero kill the two prophets and days later see them resurrection and rise into heaven? Did the second coming/7th trump happen that same day?
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: Meaning of 666

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    Did Nero persecute the church for the last 3.5 years before the second coming? This end - times beast that is associated with a mark and an image is destroyed at the second coming:
    19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army. 20 But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.
    ewq1938
    Re: Meaning of 666

    Quote Originally Posted by moonglow View Post
    People had to buy and sell using the image of Nero on their money: http://www.wildwinds.com/coins/ric/nero/i.html

    People had to buy and sell using the image of Nero on their money: http://www.wildwinds.com/coins/ric/nero/i.html
    That's basically true of most cultures and their money...not remotely close to what Rev 13 says:


    Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

    Did Nero cause fire to come down from heaven?

    Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

    Did Nero perform miracles?

    Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

    Did Nero give life to this image?

    Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

    Did Nero give anyone a mark in their right hands OR in their forehead?

    ev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
    Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
    Rev 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
    Rev 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
    Rev 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
    Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
    Rev 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
    Rev 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
    Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.


    Also, did Nero kill the two prophets and days later see them resurrection and rise into heaven? Did the second coming/7th trump happen that same day?
    I am having problems with the board just logging me out for no reason and also this is a 'new to me' computer and I don't have all my bookmarks from other websites for these studies transferred to this computer yet. So I went back and did a search on here on the end times topics that I used to post alot on, did alot of lengthy very in-depth studies on though that was years ago and I have to refresh my memory. I was unable to find an old post on this topic directly, I did find a post that would give you all some idea of my point of view on things. You can find it here: https://bibleforums.org/showthread.p...-long-time-ago

    God bless
    "People do not drift toward holiness. Apart from grace-driven effort, people do not gravitate toward godliness, prayer, obedience to Scripture, faith, and delight in the Lord. We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; We drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; We drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation; we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism; we slide toward godlessness and convince ourselves we have been liberated?" - D A Carson

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