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Thread: Who is the Beast which comes up from the bottomless pit and kills the 2W?

  1. #31
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    Re: Who is the Beast which comes up from the bottomless pit and kills the 2W?

    Quote Originally Posted by boangry View Post
    Ive never heard the pit as the sea before? isn't that a rather large stretch? Peter was a fisher of men, and he fished the fish out of the sea, can you see how I could possibly come to the conclusion the beast out of the sea could possibly be a man? The only time I can think of the sea as referring to the abyss is when the Lord made the swine run into the sea, but the play on words there will go over most peoples heads, as the name of the lake refers to the deep, (abyssos)

    The gates of hell are in the earth, right? Thus there is a 66% chance the gates are covered over by water.

    John is on an Island surrounded be seas. Thus when standing on the seashore he sees a beast rise up in front of him from the water (sea). The origination of the beast would be Hell but then he has to come up thru the water to surface to earth.

    So yes the bottomless is located off the Island of Patmos to the west side underneath the sea. If you go back before the flood the land mass was one (Pangea) and had an circle in the middle of water and a river flowing out to the great sea. Plato spoke of such as well. But logically looking at the map you can see the land mass connecting into one and you can notice a circular motion of water in the Greek Islands.


    So sea is not actually Hell itself but a place where hell is located beneath the sea is some instances.

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    Re: Who is the Beast which comes up from the bottomless pit and kills the 2W?

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    The gates of hell are in the earth, right? Thus there is a 66% chance the gates are covered over by water.

    John is on an Island surrounded be seas. Thus when standing on the seashore he sees a beast rise up in front of him from the water (sea). The origination of the beast would be Hell but then he has to come up thru the water to surface to earth.

    So yes the bottomless is located off the Island of Patmos to the west side underneath the sea. If you go back before the flood the land mass was one (Pangea) and had an circle in the middle of water and a river flowing out to the great sea. Plato spoke of such as well. But logically looking at the map you can see the land mass connecting into one and you can notice a circular motion of water in the Greek Islands.


    So sea is not actually Hell itself but a place where hell is located beneath the sea is some instances.
    Revelation 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

    Revelation 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

    Both verses are speaking of the same beast. One verse says...a beast rise up out of the sea...the other one says...shall ascend out of the bottomless pit.

    So in my mind then, it sounds correct to understand Revelation 13:1 like such, in light of Revelation 17:8...And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast ascend out of the bottomless pit, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

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    Re: Who is the Beast which comes up from the bottomless pit and kills the 2W?

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    Ross, do you not remember what Jesus said about a kingdom divided against itself can't stand?

    Those that don't have the seal of God in their foreheads, who's team would they be on? God's or satan's? Those that have the seal of God in their foreheads, who's team would they be on? God's or satan's? Which team are not to be tormented? Is it not the latter? Would not the latter be part of God' team?
    Tormented is a by product of being indwelled with a demonic spirit. The main reason why these locusts come forth are not to harm but to gather his army.

    5 And they came over unto the other side of the sea, into the country of the Gadarenes.
    2 And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit,
    3 Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains:
    4 Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him.
    5 And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones.
    6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,
    7 And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.


    14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

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    Re: Who is the Beast which comes up from the bottomless pit and kills the 2W?

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    The main reason why these locusts come forth are not to harm but to gather his army.
    They do both though, apparently. It sure looks like they are doing some harming in Rev 9.

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    Re: Who is the Beast which comes up from the bottomless pit and kills the 2W?

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    So in my mind then, it sounds correct to understand Revelation 13:1 like such, in light of Revelation 17:8...And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast ascend out of the bottomless pit, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

    The only issue is that there are two beasts Rev 13, one from the sea and one from the earth. Both would have to be the pit.

    Note I contend that the second beast is the one from the pit Rev 17. But can they both really be from the pit?

    Now interestingly the dragon is a land/sea creature and Rev 12 says woe to both.

    Also there are two beasts described in Job one a sea creature and one land. Behemoth and Leviathan.


    Thoughts

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    Re: Who is the Beast which comes up from the bottomless pit and kills the 2W?

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    The only issue is that there are two beasts Rev 13, one from the sea and one from the earth. Both would have to be the pit.

    Note I contend that the second beast is the one from the pit Rev 17. But can they both really be from the pit?

    Now interestingly the dragon is a land/sea creature and Rev 12 says woe to both.

    Also there are two beasts described in Job one a sea creature and one land. Behemoth and Leviathan.


    Thoughts

    You make some interesting points. As far as the book of Job goes, there's a lot in that book I fail to fully grasp and have no problem admitting it. What you brought up being some of it. IOW, I have invested very little time in actually studying that book.

  7. #37

    Re: Who is the Beast which comes up from the bottomless pit and kills the 2W?

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    The gates of hell are in the earth, right? Thus there is a 66% chance the gates are covered over by water.

    John is on an Island surrounded be seas. Thus when standing on the seashore he sees a beast rise up in front of him from the water (sea). The origination of the beast would be Hell but then he has to come up thru the water to surface to earth.

    So yes the bottomless is located off the Island of Patmos to the west side underneath the sea. If you go back before the flood the land mass was one (Pangea) and had an circle in the middle of water and a river flowing out to the great sea. Plato spoke of such as well. But logically looking at the map you can see the land mass connecting into one and you can notice a circular motion of water in the Greek Islands.


    So sea is not actually Hell itself but a place where hell is located beneath the sea is some instances.
    I hear what your saying, I think, yet the vision is when John is in the spirit in heaven, what I mean is I need something more to abandon the sea being a picture of people, and to take a literal interpretation? I view it as symbolic, people are often described as a flood when they invade countries or in sports analogies, what I mean is I don't think its a cryptic symbol that's hard to work out.

    Ezek 26:3 therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: I am against you, Tyre, and I will bring many nations against you, like the sea casting up its waves.

    Also the first beast is mortally wounded, the first beast is wounded by the sword, There is an image built of the first beast which is a big image, a statue like Nebuchadnezzar built of himself.

    The Antichrist also is the seventh head, he has 10 horns, the dragon gives him power (so its not Satan) and it rises out of the sea which in symbolic picture is most common the nations/people, even John saw the people in heaven on a sea of glass.

    To me there are lots of reasons he is a man which would need explained before I can dismiss the idea.

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    Re: Who is the Beast which comes up from the bottomless pit and kills the 2W?

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Rev 11
    7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

    The only possibility is Satan. Satan is the only one mentioned being thrown in the pit.

    Rev 20
    1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
    2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
    3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

    Thus Rev 20 CANNOT be speaking of a time period after the 2nd coming when a beast arises up from the pit before the 2nd coming.

    Are there two beasts which are thrown into the pit and arise on two different occasions? Not likely.

    Also when is the beast in Rev 11 thrown into the pit per scripture?

    And if the beast coming up from the pit in Rev 11 is not Satan then who is it?
    It is Apollyon, the Scarlet Colored Beast, know as the prince of Persia who withstood Micheal for 21 days. I am going to try brief illustrations instead of longform writing here:

    Seven Beast Heads Rev. 12, 13 and 17 incorporate all these players. They are all over Israel at various times. Satan places Apollyon over this region.
    1. Egypt
    2. Assyria
    3. Babylon
    4. Persia
    5. Greece
    6. Rome...........The Beast Creature is WOUNDED HERE. The Church is inserted into God's plans, He forsakes the Jews for 2000 years except a SMALL PORTION who become part of the Church vua Faith in Christ. But Israel as a whole refused to repent, rejected God's laws/plas, then rejected Jesus to boot. So they are as Dead Men's Bones to God.

    God places Apollyon in the Bottomless Pit for 2000 years for night 2000 years {he will be released at the 1st Woe}. Apollyon was thus "OF THE 6"......placed in the Bottomless Pit, and when he is released he will once again be placed in charge of the Mediterranean Sea Region by Satan. Jesus allows the Anti-Christ to Conquer the region again, once Apollyon is released he will be over the Anti-Christ via the Spirit world and will thus be "OF THE 7" and he is an 8th, the Scarlet Colored Beast with NO CROWNS of Rev. 17.

    Rev. 12 is Satan the Red Dragon
    Rev. 13 is the Anti-Christ

    Rev. 17 is Apollyon the Scarlet Colored Beast. He WAS...............IS NOT {hes in the pit}...........YET IS.

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    Re: Who is the Beast which comes up from the bottomless pit and kills the 2W?

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by boangry View Post
    I hear what your saying, I think, yet the vision is when John is in the spirit in heaven, what I mean is I need something more to abandon the sea being a picture of people, and to take a literal interpretation? I view it as symbolic, people are often described as a flood when they invade countries or in sports analogies, what I mean is I don't think its a cryptic symbol that's hard to work out.

    Would not someone standing on the sand of the sea quantify the location of the event being the seashore? And then that someone seeing something rise out of the sea in front of him. And John being on an island where there is a nearby seashore. Clearly the sea is literal. Now it appears you and many others tow the same line.....which appears more of following another's translation and premise.


    Also the first beast is mortally wounded, the first beast is wounded by the sword, There is an image built of the first beast which is a big image, a statue like Nebuchadnezzar built of himself.
    Just a note here Nebs image was 60X6 cubits which just so happens to be the size of the doorway to the temple.

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    Re: Who is the Beast which comes up from the bottomless pit and kills the 2W?

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    It is Apollyon, the Scarlet Colored Beast, know as the prince of Persia who withstood Micheal for 21 days. I am going to try brief illustrations instead of longform writing here:

    Seven Beast Heads Rev. 12, 13 and 17 incorporate all these players. They are all over Israel at various times. Satan places Apollyon over this region.
    1. Egypt
    2. Assyria
    3. Babylon
    4. Persia
    5. Greece
    6. Rome...........The Beast Creature is WOUNDED HERE. The Church is inserted into God's plans, He forsakes the Jews for 2000 years except a SMALL PORTION who become part of the Church vua Faith in Christ. But Israel as a whole refused to repent, rejected God's laws/plas, then rejected Jesus to boot. So they are as Dead Men's Bones to God.

    God places Apollyon in the Bottomless Pit for 2000 years for night 2000 years {he will be released at the 1st Woe}. Apollyon was thus "OF THE 6"......placed in the Bottomless Pit, and when he is released he will once again be placed in charge of the Mediterranean Sea Region by Satan. Jesus allows the Anti-Christ to Conquer the region again, once Apollyon is released he will be over the Anti-Christ via the Spirit world and will thus be "OF THE 7" and he is an 8th, the Scarlet Colored Beast with NO CROWNS of Rev. 17.

    Rev. 12 is Satan the Red Dragon
    Rev. 13 is the Anti-Christ

    Rev. 17 is Apollyon the Scarlet Colored Beast. He WAS...............IS NOT {hes in the pit}...........YET IS.
    Very interesting. So this demon prince is in the pit, from before Israel was destroyed at 70AD.

    Then the demon prince is released from the pit, at the start of the antichrist's 42 month reign. This is when Israel has significant power in the region under the false Jewish Messiah who comes to power in Jerusalem, and comes to his end in Israel.

    Would you agree with this?

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    Re: Who is the Beast which comes up from the bottomless pit and kills the 2W?

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    It is Apollyon, the Scarlet Colored Beast, know as the prince of Persia who withstood Micheal for 21 days. I am going to try brief illustrations instead of longform writing here:

    Seven Beast Heads Rev. 12, 13 and 17 incorporate all these players. They are all over Israel at various times. Satan places Apollyon over this region.
    1. Egypt
    2. Assyria
    3. Babylon
    4. Persia
    5. Greece
    6. Rome...........The Beast Creature is WOUNDED HERE. The Church is inserted into God's plans, He forsakes the Jews for 2000 years except a SMALL PORTION who become part of the Church vua Faith in Christ. But Israel as a whole refused to repent, rejected God's laws/plas, then rejected Jesus to boot. So they are as Dead Men's Bones to God.

    God places Apollyon in the Bottomless Pit for 2000 years for night 2000 years {he will be released at the 1st Woe}. Apollyon was thus "OF THE 6"......placed in the Bottomless Pit, and when he is released he will once again be placed in charge of the Mediterranean Sea Region by Satan. Jesus allows the Anti-Christ to Conquer the region again, once Apollyon is released he will be over the Anti-Christ via the Spirit world and will thus be "OF THE 7" and he is an 8th, the Scarlet Colored Beast with NO CROWNS of Rev. 17.

    Rev. 12 is Satan the Red Dragon
    Rev. 13 is the Anti-Christ

    Rev. 17 is Apollyon the Scarlet Colored Beast. He WAS...............IS NOT {hes in the pit}...........YET IS.
    Actually Apollyon also known as the destroyer in revelation wasnít placed over Egypt he was the one who actually killed all of the first male born

    Exodus 12:23
    23 When the Lord goes through the land to strike down the Egyptians, he will see the blood on the top and sides of the doorframe and will pass over that doorway, and he will not permit the destroyer to enter your houses and strike you down.

    He is also called a king in revelation not a prince

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    Re: Who is the Beast which comes up from the bottomless pit and kills the 2W?

    Adding to my post above if you notice just like the so called angel of death the destroyer in exodus 12 couldnít harm the ones with the blood marked doorways these locusts in revelation 9 also canít harm those who have the seal of God

    Revelation 9:4
    4 They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads

    The book of revelation always refers back to the OT which helps us to understand it

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    Re: Who is the Beast which comes up from the bottomless pit and kills the 2W?

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    Very interesting. So this demon prince is in the pit, from before Israel was destroyed at 70AD.

    Then the demon prince is released from the pit, at the start of the antichrist's 42 month reign. This is when Israel has significant power in the region under the false Jewish Messiah who comes to power in Jerusalem, and comes to his end in Israel.

    Would you agree with this?
    You are close, the Demon Apollyon is released at the First Woe, which is after the First Seals are opened of Course. So hes not around for the full 1260 days, but Satan is cast to earth n say 1261, leaving him chasing the Woman for 1260 days, so Apollyon kinda has more help on earth this time, but the thinking is basically spot on via my thought process.

    Also, when can't know the exact date he was placed in the pit, it might have been before 70 AD or even after. But that is basically right. I think the Church is what wounded the Beast the gates of hell can not prevail against the Church, so the Holy Spirit working through is is what Hinders or wounds the Beast. And after the Rapture the Beast will again come to fruition.

    I also don't think Israel has tremendous power under the Beast, he's going to kill the 2/3 who do not repent {Zechariah 13:8-9} whilst chasing the 1/3 that Repents into the Wilderness. Now the False Prophet is a Jewish High Priest after the likeness of Jason whom Antiochus appointed, who tried to Hellenize the Jews, but the Jews don't follow this Anti-Christ man, IMHO. That is a misnomer.

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    Re: Who is the Beast which comes up from the bottomless pit and kills the 2W?

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    Actually Apollyon also known as the destroyer in revelation wasn’t placed over Egypt he was the one who actually killed all of the first male born

    Exodus 12:23
    23 When the Lord goes through the land to strike down the Egyptians, he will see the blood on the top and sides of the doorframe and will pass over that doorway, and he will not permit the destroyer to enter your houses and strike you down.

    He is also called a king in revelation not a prince
    He is over the region, and his Demonic Orders from Satan of course is to destroy the Jews/Israel, but he still has to OBEY God, thus in Dan. 10 as the prince of Persia, he resisted Michael for 21 days, but he eventually had to allow Alexander the Great to conquer Persia, very speedily at that. So he was of the 7 {counting the coming Anti-Christ} and is an 8th King......King and prince are the same thing basically, he will never be the King because Satan is over all Darkness, but he can be a King over portions, whilst still being under Satan also makes him a prince. Jesus is called both a King and a Prince.

    So he BEASTS over the Region, but he still must take orders from God of course on occasion.

    Adding to my post above if you notice just like the so called angel of death the destroyer in exodus 12 couldn’t harm the ones with the blood marked doorways these locusts in revelation 9 also can’t harm those who have the seal of God

    Revelation 9:4
    4 They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads

    The book of revelation always refers back to the OT which helps us to understand it
    This is true and a very good observation I intend to borrow and add to my thought process, thanks....

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    Re: Who is the Beast which comes up from the bottomless pit and kills the 2W?

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    You are close, the Demon Apollyon is released at the First Woe, which is after the First Seals are opened of Course. So hes not around for the full 1260 days, but Satan is cast to earth n say 1261, leaving him chasing the Woman for 1260 days, so Apollyon kinda has more help on earth this time, but the thinking is basically spot on via my thought process.

    Also, when can't know the exact date he was placed in the pit, it might have been before 70 AD or even after. But that is basically right. I think the Church is what wounded the Beast the gates of hell can not prevail against the Church, so the Holy Spirit working through is is what Hinders or wounds the Beast. And after the Rapture the Beast will again come to fruition.

    I also don't think Israel has tremendous power under the Beast, he's going to kill the 2/3 who do not repent {Zechariah 13:8-9} whilst chasing the 1/3 that Repents into the Wilderness. Now the False Prophet is a Jewish High Priest after the likeness of Jason whom Antiochus appointed, who tried to Hellenize the Jews, but the Jews don't follow this Anti-Christ man, IMHO. That is a misnomer.
    Thanks for the feedback. Daniel 7 is clear the four beasts are 4 kingdoms, each which historically lasted for hundreds of years, yet the beasts are ALSO 4 kings according to the text, and how can a king survive for hundreds of years? So for a while now I have agreed with your perspective that they are demon princes over regions.

    You actually defining which beast/demon prince is the one that " was and is not" is an interesting viewpoint, definitely something to ponder on.

    We may differ on the false prophet though, which is described as a beast with two horns like a lamb. I feel the same type of horn/beast imagery applies to the false prophet. Two little horns means two tiny regions. A beast refers to a demon prince over an area. This second beast has religious influence if you read Rev 13 carefully. I see this two-part beast as the two feet of Rome, two final superpowers of Daniel 2. It is unrealistic to have FOUR superpowers at the end, it is more realistic that the two little horns match the two feet.
    Rome and Istanbul unite and support the rise of the Middle Eastern demon when the antichrist rules the Middle East and comes to power in Jerusalem.

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