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Thread: Who is the Beast which comes up from the bottomless pit and kills the 2W?

  1. #46
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    Re: Who is the Beast which comes up from the bottomless pit and kills the 2W?

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    Thanks for the feedback. Daniel 7 is clear the four beasts are 4 kingdoms, each which historically lasted for hundreds of years, yet the beasts are ALSO 4 kings according to the text, and how can a king survive for hundreds of years? So for a while now I have agreed with your perspective that they are demon princes over regions.

    You actually defining which beast/demon prince is the one that " was and is not" is an interesting viewpoint, definitely something to ponder on.

    We may differ on the false prophet though, which is described as a beast with two horns like a lamb. I feel the same type of horn/beast imagery applies to the false prophet. Two little horns means two tiny regions. A beast refers to a demon prince over an area. This second beast has religious influence if you read Rev 13 carefully. I see this two-part beast as the two feet of Rome, two final superpowers of Daniel 2. It is unrealistic to have FOUR superpowers at the end, it is more realistic that the two little horns match the two feet.
    Rome and Istanbul unite and support the rise of the Middle Eastern demon when the antichrist rules the Middle East and comes to power in Jerusalem.
    Yes, the Beasts are the Physical Kingdoms, the Beast Demon over the Region, the Scarlet Beast and the Dragon, so its three pronged. Thus Rev. 12, 13 & 17 are different beasts.

    In my Daniel 11 and 12 studies {which I retroactively understood should have bee 10, 11 and 12} showed me a very powerful "SECRET" that almost no one gets, because Daniel was not given the End Time False Prophet understanding, FOR A REASON, however he was told about one of his deeds, the Abomination of Desolation at the 1290. So what was this great secret ? God gave us not only the TYPE of Anti-Christ but this man Antiochus appointed the TYPE False Prophet that we will see in the coming End Times, but God was SILENT on this to Daniel, he did however give this to John.

    So the question is why was Daniel not given this understanding by Jesus or Gabriel ? The answer is, if Daniel had of been told about a coming False Prophet {High Priest} that betrays his people, the Pharisees/Jews would have killed every other High Priest out of fear, like King Herod did when he was told the Prophets pointed a Baby being born in Bethlehem, and King Herod then tried to kill him by killing all babies under 2 years old !! So this man IN TYPE exists, but we were not told about him. Who was he ? Jason, real name Yeshua. He bribed Antiochus, who thus killed a Pious High Priest in Onias III {Jason's real brother}, and appointed Jason, who then tried to Jellenize all the Jews, leading to the Maccabean Revolt. So this man is the EXACT TYPE of False Prophet and Antiochus is the EXACT TYPE of the coming Anti-Christ, thus they were not just TYPES but they were TYPES who ruled at the same time, one over Government, the other over Religion.

    Likewise the coming Anti-Christ will Govern as a BEAST over the Mediterranean Sea Region/Israel, and he will kill off All [False] Religions, {The Harlot Rev. 17:16}, thus he will destroy Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Chase Israel into the Petra/Bozrah area, kill all the Christian Saints {Remnant Church on earth} etc. etc. He demands to be worshiped as the ONLY GOD !! That's his goal. So he Beasts over the region/Israel and eventually the Whole World and allows his False Prophet {High Priest} to BEAST over a One World Religion, which is MANDATED thus the Lamb with two horns represent a Religious figure with power, who acts like hes of God {High Priest} but SPEAKS AFTER THE MANNER OF SATAN as in Worship this MAN BEAST over Governments !! So he is given power to Rule over Beast Worship.....and Rev. 13 tells us he places an IMAGE of the Beast in the Temple and MANDATES all men worship the Beast or die !! {Jason tried to Hellenize the Jews...........SAME THING HERE }

    Its ONE POWER over the Governments {Anti-Christ}, who then allows this Religious Beast to MANDATE BEAST WORSHIP !! Thus he has the Power to kill men who refuse to worship this man as God. He betrays his people just like Jason did. I see no Islamic angle nor any RCC angle. It will be a Fourth Beast.....come alive again as 10 Kings in Europe who give their power to this Anti-Christ/Beast, so its actually a 5th Beast, thus we have 7 Heads not 6. The Little Horn COMES OUT of the Head of the Fourth Beast. That only means he comes out of Europe and his footprint will be almost identical to the Fourth Beasts footprint, once he Conquers the Mediterranean Sea Region, whom he deceives.

    I wouldn't worry about the Feet, that Fourth Beast is dead.....the Feet have 10 toes partly iron and partly clay, meaning this European Kingdom could not get back together for nigh 2000 years no matter how hard Satan tried, via INTERMARRIAGE of the Royals { thus the SEED OF MEN Reference in Dan. 2}, and via wars like WW2 {Hitler}, and others who tried to reunite Europe, BUT....it was of course in vain, util the Church us removed/take out of the way.

  2. #47
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    Re: Who is the Beast which comes up from the bottomless pit and kills the 2W?

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    Yes, the Beasts are the Physical Kingdoms, the Beast Demon over the Region, the Scarlet Beast and the Dragon, so its three pronged. Thus Rev. 12, 13 & 17 are different beasts.

    In my Daniel 11 and 12 studies {which I retroactively understood should have bee 10, 11 and 12} showed me a very powerful "SECRET" that almost no one gets, because Daniel was not given the End Time False Prophet understanding, FOR A REASON, however he was told about one of his deeds, the Abomination of Desolation at the 1290. So what was this great secret ? God gave us not only the TYPE of Anti-Christ but this man Antiochus appointed the TYPE False Prophet that we will see in the coming End Times, but God was SILENT on this to Daniel, he did however give this to John.

    So the question is why was Daniel not given this understanding by Jesus or Gabriel ? The answer is, if Daniel had of been told about a coming False Prophet {High Priest} that betrays his people, the Pharisees/Jews would have killed every other High Priest out of fear, like King Herod did when he was told the Prophets pointed a Baby being born in Bethlehem, and King Herod then tried to kill him by killing all babies under 2 years old !! So this man IN TYPE exists, but we were not told about him. Who was he ? Jason, real name Yeshua. He bribed Antiochus, who thus killed a Pious High Priest in Onias III {Jason's real brother}, and appointed Jason, who then tried to Jellenize all the Jews, leading to the Maccabean Revolt. So this man is the EXACT TYPE of False Prophet and Antiochus is the EXACT TYPE of the coming Anti-Christ, thus they were not just TYPES but they were TYPES who ruled at the same time, one over Government, the other over Religion.

    Likewise the coming Anti-Christ will Govern as a BEAST over the Mediterranean Sea Region/Israel, and he will kill off All [False] Religions, {The Harlot Rev. 17:16}, thus he will destroy Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Chase Israel into the Petra/Bozrah area, kill all the Christian Saints {Remnant Church on earth} etc. etc. He demands to be worshiped as the ONLY GOD !! That's his goal. So he Beasts over the region/Israel and eventually the Whole World and allows his False Prophet {High Priest} to BEAST over a One World Religion, which is MANDATED thus the Lamb with two horns represent a Religious figure with power, who acts like hes of God {High Priest} but SPEAKS AFTER THE MANNER OF SATAN as in Worship this MAN BEAST over Governments !! So he is given power to Rule over Beast Worship.....and Rev. 13 tells us he places an IMAGE of the Beast in the Temple and MANDATES all men worship the Beast or die !! {Jason tried to Hellenize the Jews...........SAME THING HERE }

    Its ONE POWER over the Governments {Anti-Christ}, who then allows this Religious Beast to MANDATE BEAST WORSHIP !! Thus he has the Power to kill men who refuse to worship this man as God. He betrays his people just like Jason did. I see no Islamic angle nor any RCC angle. It will be a Fourth Beast.....come alive again as 10 Kings in Europe who give their power to this Anti-Christ/Beast, so its actually a 5th Beast, thus we have 7 Heads not 6. The Little Horn COMES OUT of the Head of the Fourth Beast. That only means he comes out of Europe and his footprint will be almost identical to the Fourth Beasts footprint, once he Conquers the Mediterranean Sea Region, whom he deceives.

    I wouldn't worry about the Feet, that Fourth Beast is dead.....the Feet have 10 toes partly iron and partly clay, meaning this European Kingdom could not get back together for nigh 2000 years no matter how hard Satan tried, via INTERMARRIAGE of the Royals { thus the SEED OF MEN Reference in Dan. 2}, and via wars like WW2 {Hitler}, and others who tried to reunite Europe, BUT....it was of course in vain, util the Church us removed/take out of the way.
    We differ on a lot then, I see us as nearly at the end times. The power that the second beast has over the world already exists in Rome (through Catholic Ecumenism) and has existed historically in Istanbul (caliphate). So I'm not seeing anything vastly different to what exists.

    I just believe Turkey will once again consolidate the Eastern portion of the old Roman Empire, and then Rome/Istanbul will set up the antichrist as a leader of a portion of the Middle East, and religious icon of the whole world. I'm not expecting other religions to disappear, rather to see some fulfillment in the false Messiah.

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    Re: Who is the Beast which comes up from the bottomless pit and kills the 2W?

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    We differ on a lot then, I see us as nearly at the end times. The power that the second beast has over the world already exists in Rome (through Catholic Ecumenism) and has existed historically in Istanbul (caliphate). So I'm not seeing anything vastly different to what exists.

    I just believe Turkey will once again consolidate the Eastern portion of the old Roman Empire, and then Rome/Istanbul will set up the antichrist as a leader of a portion of the Middle East, and religious icon of the whole world. I'm not expecting other religions to disappear, rather to see some fulfillment in the false Messiah.
    Why would anyone try to unite religions ? We can't even get Baptists and a Methodists to agree on anything. Satan isn't stupid, he is brilliant, he's not going to try to unite world religions, that is why he kills 1.5 to 2 billion people. Turkey has never been a Beast, just because Rome ruled over them doesn't mean Turkey was a Beast over Israel. Its all in juxtaposition to Israel and after 70 AD there was no Israel, they were as Dead Men's Bones unto God. Nothing from that point until 1948 can be a Beast over Israel, because to God there was no Israel. We look at things as men do, not as God does. If God says something is dead to Him, ITS DEAD !! We can't then force a Beast where there can be no Beast, thus God mentions 4 Beasts, not the Ottoman Empire, not the British Empire etc. but only four beasts from Daniel on.....6 counting Rome & Assyria and 7 counting the coming Anti-Christ. To be honest I just don't get the Turkey angle.

    And the RCC is not the 2nd Beast. That is a rabbit hole created by some far out there people like Armstrong, it just not factual brother. The Church is not on earth during the 70th week, save those Gentiles who come to Christ during the 70th week trib., so why would anyone look to Rome ? If they missed the Rapture that explains hey are not of God, if they didn't miss the Rapture then of course they are not here on earth.

    The LAST BEAST is a MAN whom the 10 Kings give their power/authority unto. Both the Islamic angle and the RCC angle are wrong, and most people just buy one, you have combined the two it seems. The Harlot = Al False Religions and she will be destroyed by the 10 Kings of the Beast.

    The Second Beast is clear to me, its not the RCC, it a Jewish High Priest, thus he comes out of he land.

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    Re: Who is the Beast which comes up from the bottomless pit and kills the 2W?

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    Why would anyone try to unite religions ? We can't even get Baptists and a Methodists to agree on anything. Satan isn't stupid, he is brilliant, he's not going to try to unite world religions, that is why he kills 1.5 to 2 billion people. Turkey has never been a Beast, just because Rome ruled over them doesn't mean Turkey was a Beast over Israel. Its all in juxtaposition to Israel and after 70 AD there was no Israel, they were as Dead Men's Bones unto God. Nothing from that point until 1948 can be a Beast over Israel, because to God there was no Israel. We look at things as men do, not as God does. If God says something is dead to Him, ITS DEAD !! We can't then force a Beast where there can be no Beast, thus God mentions 4 Beasts, not the Ottoman Empire, not the British Empire etc. but only four beasts from Daniel on.....6 counting Rome & Assyria and 7 counting the coming Anti-Christ. To be honest I just don't get the Turkey angle.

    And the RCC is not the 2nd Beast. That is a rabbit hole created by some far out there people like Armstrong, it just not factual brother. The Church is not on earth during the 70th week, save those Gentiles who come to Christ during the 70th week trib., so why would anyone look to Rome ? If they missed the Rapture that explains hey are not of God, if they didn't miss the Rapture then of course they are not here on earth.

    The LAST BEAST is a MAN whom the 10 Kings give their power/authority unto. Both the Islamic angle and the RCC angle are wrong, and most people just buy one, you have combined the two it seems. The Harlot = Al False Religions and she will be destroyed by the 10 Kings of the Beast.

    The Second Beast is clear to me, its not the RCC, it a Jewish High Priest, thus he comes out of he land.
    Regarding Turkey, the four beasts of Daniel 7, and the four kingdoms of Daniel 2 can be seen as an unbroken timeline of 4 kingdoms until the second coming.


    If one sees the 4th kingdom of Rome as this unbroken timeline, then the two feet of that 4th kingdom logically represent western Rome (Europe) and Turkey (Byzantium Empire)

    It is this split Rome that unites to support the rise of antichrist. Hopefully you understand the "Istanbul" connection now, representing the Eastern part of the split Roman Empire.

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    Re: Who is the Beast which comes up from the bottomless pit and kills the 2W?

    Adding to my post above if you notice just like the so called angel of death the destroyer in exodus 12 couldnít harm the ones with the blood marked doorways these locusts in revelation 9 also canít harm those who have the seal of God

    Revelation 9:4
    4 They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads

    The book of revelation always refers back to the OT which helps us to understand it
    This is true and a very good observation I intend to borrow and add to my thought process, thanks....

    No problem you are welcome

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    Re: Who is the Beast which comes up from the bottomless pit and kills the 2W?

    Rev 12
    12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.


    Note the DEVIL has come down to earth and the sea.

    Rev13
    1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea,

    11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth;


    So if the DEVIL goes down the earth and sea it is the DEVIL which comes up therein.

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    Re: Who is the Beast which comes up from the bottomless pit and kills the 2W?

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    Regarding Turkey, the four beasts of Daniel 7, and the four kingdoms of Daniel 2 can be seen as an unbroken timeline of 4 kingdoms until the second coming.


    If one sees the 4th kingdom of Rome as this unbroken timeline, then the two feet of that 4th kingdom logically represent western Rome (Europe) and Turkey (Byzantium Empire)

    It is this split Rome that unites to support the rise of antichrist. Hopefully you understand the "Istanbul" connection now, representing the Eastern part of the split Roman Empire.
    Carification/P.S. on the above post I meant adding in Egypt and Assyria, not Rome and Assyria to the Four Beasts of Daniel.

    It can be seen as that, if one wants to see it that way, but its not that way according to God. He inserted the Church Age, and the Beast DIED. Thus it will come alive again. Thus the Mortal Wound and the HEALED WOUND of Rev. 13, the Wound is to the 7 headed Beast, not the man, no man dies and comes back to life, the 7 Headed Beast dies and comes back to life. The Church took Beast number 4 and changed it into a conveyor belt of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

    No one sees the arms as two Kingdoms, I wonder why ? It was one Kingdom. After 70 AD it was no longer a Beast per se over Israel. It eventually faded from a Beast to a center of Christianity all together. The Old Fourth Beast is dead, the new Beast/Little Horn arises out of his Head {Europe} and this man Conquers all of North Africa, Israel, and most of the nations around Israel, maybe even Turkey, in what Daniel 9:27 and 11:40-43 calls THE MANY......and in what Dan. 8:25 says MANY are destroyed BY PEACE. These are MANY Nations or ALL the Mediterranean Sea Region.

    I read about the Islamic angle and the RCC angle years ago,but I saw they were both head fakes by Satan. He arises out of the E.U. ad hes born in Greece, and hes a Turkish person [born in Greece]. Nothing else adds up brother. Hes going to demand Worship and the Muslims will go crazy....but he will have placed them in a no win situation, because hes ruthless. Lets be honest, we could wipeout the entire Muslim world in a few moths if we had a TYRANT running the country who so desired to. They are a paper tiger in reality.

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    Re: Who is the Beast which comes up from the bottomless pit and kills the 2W?

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    Carification/P.S. on the above post I meant adding in Egypt and Assyria, not Rome and Assyria to the Four Beasts of Daniel.

    It can be seen as that, if one wants to see it that way, but its not that way according to God. He inserted the Church Age, and the Beast DIED. Thus it will come alive again. Thus the Mortal Wound and the HEALED WOUND of Rev. 13, the Wound is to the 7 headed Beast, not the man, no man dies and comes back to life, the 7 Headed Beast dies and comes back to life. The Church took Beast number 4 and changed it into a conveyor belt of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

    No one sees the arms as two Kingdoms, I wonder why ? It was one Kingdom. After 70 AD it was no longer a Beast per se over Israel. It eventually faded from a Beast to a center of Christianity all together. The Old Fourth Beast is dead, the new Beast/Little Horn arises out of his Head {Europe} and this man Conquers all of North Africa, Israel, and most of the nations around Israel, maybe even Turkey, in what Daniel 9:27 and 11:40-43 calls THE MANY......and in what Dan. 8:25 says MANY are destroyed BY PEACE. These are MANY Nations or ALL the Mediterranean Sea Region.

    I read about the Islamic angle and the RCC angle years ago,but I saw they were both head fakes by Satan. He arises out of the E.U. ad hes born in Greece, and hes a Turkish person [born in Greece]. Nothing else adds up brother. Hes going to demand Worship and the Muslims will go crazy....but he will have placed them in a no win situation, because hes ruthless. Lets be honest, we could wipeout the entire Muslim world in a few moths if we had a TYRANT running the country who so desired to. They are a paper tiger in reality.
    The Bible focusses in on the Middle East. There are many demon prince's, but those ones get the focus

    Heres a summary of the demon princes and 7 heads :
    1)Egypt
    2)Assyria
    3) Babylon/lion 1st beast
    4) Persia /bear. 2nd beast
    5) Greece/leopard 3rd beast
    6) Rome................. 4th beast
    7) Split Rome......... 4th beast
    8) Re-united Rome..4th beast + beast from the pit.

    This is the background to the rise of the little horn /antichrist beast , 8th kingdom. Rome gives its power over to the beast from the pit, and is represented by the false prophet of 2 horns in Rev 13 (Rome/Istanbul)

  9. #54

    Re: Who is the Beast which comes up from the bottomless pit and kills the 2W?

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Rev 11
    7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

    The only possibility is Satan. Satan is the only one mentioned being thrown in the pit.
    I believe it's Satan in the flesh. The bottomless pit isn't a physical place in the middle of the earth. It's a void within a person that can't be filled apart from God. An example would be the greed of mankind. The beast, a human manifestation of the devil comes from the world.

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    Re: Who is the Beast which comes up from the bottomless pit and kills the 2W?

    The Bottomless Pit appears to be the Abyss, a place where demons, who need to be suppressed, are kept. The Beast is the Roman Empire, whose destiny it was to be destroyed following the death of Christ.

    Dan 9.27 And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.

    The Roman Empire set up a siege against Jerusalem in 66-70 AD, and destroyed it and the temple. But eventually, in 476 AD the Western Empire was destroyed. It had been Christianized, to some extent, but continued to have pagan elements.

    However, Daniel saw this Beast, the 4th pagan empire, as continuing until the appearance of God's Kingdom. Therefore, the Roman Empire, having been thrown into the Bottomless Pit, reemerges--a fatal wound healed--in order to oppress God's People once again, led by the Antichrist.

    Normally, demons are thrown into the Bottomless Pit. But in this case, the Roman Empire is viewed as cast into the Pit, like the demons, because as a pagan empire it was demonically inspired. I'm purely surmising, since this subject is very difficult for me.

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    Re: Who is the Beast which comes up from the bottomless pit and kills the 2W?

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    The Bible focusses in on the Middle East. There are many demon prince's, but those ones get the focus

    Heres a summary of the demon princes and 7 heads :
    1)Egypt
    2)Assyria
    3) Babylon/lion 1st beast
    4) Persia /bear. 2nd beast
    5) Greece/leopard 3rd beast
    6) Rome................. 4th beast
    7) Split Rome......... 4th beast
    8) Re-united Rome..4th beast + beast from the pit.

    This is the background to the rise of the little horn /antichrist beast , 8th kingdom. Rome gives its power over to the beast from the pit, and is represented by the false prophet of 2 horns in Rev 13 (Rome/Istanbul)
    Number 7 is where I see you veering off track. Why would you think a Split Rome is important ? You heard it, like I did, from other men/books/preaches etc. etc. I pondered it for years not knowing, with other things going on, but once I jumped into Prophecy 100 percent with an endeavor to understand these confusing passages of Prophecy, I decided to not accept all of the Men's Traditions passed down through the years.

    You have an 8th Kingdom, and there is no such thing, nor is it ever mentioned. When Rev. ch. 17 speaks of the Scarlet Colored Beast {Apollyon} it says he was OF THE SEVEN which means he was placed over Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome..........AND The Anti-Christ.......but he was an 8th, a Beast over Israel/a King of the Bottomless Pit etc. However, he's NOT a Physical being over a physical Nation of his ow, thus he is OF THE SEVEN !! So each Kingdom he rules over is the Seven mentioned above, and he is a 8th Beast and/or an 8th King in that hes a King over the Bottomless Pit, one can say he's a 9th Beast because Sata is shown to be a Beast in Rev. 12, so I think he is a 8th King is the proper description, because the 7 Kings who have FALLEN are the subject, he a 8th King and he has also Fallen in that all demons are in a fallen state, thus they have no bodies.

    Rev. 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. 11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

    The point is there are ONLY SEVEN EARTHLY Kings who fall brother, their is an 8th Beast who is OF THE SEVEN {Meaning he was over the Mediterranean Sea Region in each case}. There has been no Beast for nigh 2000 years. God has not allowed it and Israel was not a Nation so there was nothing to Beast over, God is not concerned about Egypt and the Region in general and their affairs. So the Ottoman Empire had zero to do with what God is pointing towards, he forsook Israel, so they couldn't be BEASTED OVER. We can't mix and match. From the time Israel was as Dead Men's Bones until Israel was reborn in 1948 there could be NO BEAST. The imagery just doesn't work, REMEMBER, its just IMAGERY...................Beasts over Israel = Egypt one Head....Assyria one Head....Babylon oe Head....Persia one Head....Greece one Head....Rome one Head...Then there was NO ISRAEL, so why would anyone assume God's IMAGERY would not also be wiped out ? Its about a BEAST over ISRAEL !! Israel are no more, thus the Imagery fades away, its all irrelevant. Israel are Dead to God.................thus only after the Church Age do they become relevant again in that they must Repent during the 70th Week !! Thus the Beast is once again allowed to come forth, is a part of the 490 year {70 x 7} punishment to bring Israel unto repentance.....The Church doesn't need to repent, we repent as individuals, Israel as a Nation needs to Repent, they are not in Christ, certain Jews of course are, but as a NATION Israel forsook God and thus He forsook them.

    The Imagery is just not relevant without an Israel in the picture brother.

    God Bless

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    Re: Who is the Beast which comes up from the bottomless pit and kills the 2W?

    Quote Originally Posted by journeyman View Post
    I believe it's Satan in the flesh.
    Agree...kinda like Jesus is God in the flesh.



    The bottomless pit isn't a physical place in the middle of the earth.


  13. #58

    Re: Who is the Beast which comes up from the bottomless pit and kills the 2W?

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Agree...kinda like Jesus is God in the flesh.
    Yes, like that and his followers are his body.

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    The bottomless pit is the spiritual state Satan is relegated to by the knowledge of Jesus Christ.

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    Re: Who is the Beast which comes up from the bottomless pit and kills the 2W?

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    Number 7 is where I see you veering off track. Why would you think a Split Rome is important ? You heard it, like I did, from other men/books/preaches etc. etc. I pondered it for years not knowing, with other things going on, but once I jumped into Prophecy 100 percent with an endeavor to understand these confusing passages of Prophecy, I decided to not accept all of the Men's Traditions passed down through the years.

    You have an 8th Kingdom, and there is no such thing, nor is it ever mentioned. When Rev. ch. 17 speaks of the Scarlet Colored Beast {Apollyon} it says he was OF THE SEVEN which means he was placed over Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome..........AND The Anti-Christ.......but he was an 8th, a Beast over Israel/a King of the Bottomless Pit etc. However, he's NOT a Physical being over a physical Nation of his ow, thus he is OF THE SEVEN !! So each Kingdom he rules over is the Seven mentioned above, and he is a 8th Beast and/or an 8th King in that hes a King over the Bottomless Pit, one can say he's a 9th Beast because Sata is shown to be a Beast in Rev. 12, so I think he is a 8th King is the proper description, because the 7 Kings who have FALLEN are the subject, he a 8th King and he has also Fallen in that all demons are in a fallen state, thus they have no bodies.

    Rev. 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. 11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

    The point is there are ONLY SEVEN EARTHLY Kings who fall brother, their is an 8th Beast who is OF THE SEVEN {Meaning he was over the Mediterranean Sea Region in each case}. There has been no Beast for nigh 2000 years. God has not allowed it and Israel was not a Nation so there was nothing to Beast over, God is not concerned about Egypt and the Region in general and their affairs. So the Ottoman Empire had zero to do with what God is pointing towards, he forsook Israel, so they couldn't be BEASTED OVER. We can't mix and match. From the time Israel was as Dead Men's Bones until Israel was reborn in 1948 there could be NO BEAST. The imagery just doesn't work, REMEMBER, its just IMAGERY...................Beasts over Israel = Egypt one Head....Assyria one Head....Babylon oe Head....Persia one Head....Greece one Head....Rome one Head...Then there was NO ISRAEL, so why would anyone assume God's IMAGERY would not also be wiped out ? Its about a BEAST over ISRAEL !! Israel are no more, thus the Imagery fades away, its all irrelevant. Israel are Dead to God.................thus only after the Church Age do they become relevant again in that they must Repent during the 70th Week !! Thus the Beast is once again allowed to come forth, is a part of the 490 year {70 x 7} punishment to bring Israel unto repentance.....The Church doesn't need to repent, we repent as individuals, Israel as a Nation needs to Repent, they are not in Christ, certain Jews of course are, but as a NATION Israel forsook God and thus He forsook them.

    The Imagery is just not relevant without an Israel in the picture brother.

    God Bless
    The view of the Rome/Istanbul split isn't common, yet it is the obvious fit to the divided empire of two feet in Daniel 2.

    And the 8th kingdom of Rev 17 obviously follows the other 7. On these points we will have to remain at variance.

    Im still researching your Apollyon view, Trivalee also mentioned this. It definitely seems to fit scripture and history.

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