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Thread: These signs shall follow them that believe

  1. #46
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    Re: These signs shall follow them that believe

    Originally Posted by Walls

    The greatest Gentile king who ever lived, who is a Type of the coming Beast, and of whom God said in Daniel 2:37-38 ...

    37 "Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory.
    38 And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold."


    ..., when God had suitably chastised him for seven years, said this of God in Daniel 4:34-35;

    34 "And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:
    35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?"


    That is, God not only has total power over men and their doings, but men's mechanisms "are as NOTHING" to God. Do you think that the Bible, as it stands to day, with the closing verses of Mark included in all the influential translations, even those who don't use the Alexandrian texts, and which has stood for over 1,700 years, is men's ability to overpower God? Or has God exercised His power to have the version He wanted?

    If these verses are added, God allowed it. He has allowed His faithful to have them. And then again, what grand truth do these verses overturn? Or are they in harmony with the rest of the Bible?

    Especially when a person studies the progression of God's use of disciples, first with just the twelve (including Judas), then the many disciples (70/72), then after Pentecost with all the Body of disciples. While the Mark 16 verses can be debated (inclusion in scripture), what CAN'T be debated is that ALL that those verses speak about, there are enough examples found ALL throughout scriptures, showing us all that the "topic" (of those scriptures) cannot be debated.

    "What" those verses speak about... can only be accepted or not be accepted.
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


  2. #47

    Re: These signs shall follow them that believe

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    The greatest Gentile king who ever lived, who is a Type of the coming Beast, and of whom God said in Daniel 2:37-38 ...

    37 "Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory.
    38 And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold."


    ..., when God had suitably chastised him for seven years, said this of God in Daniel 4:34-35;
    The man of sin is nothing but a thug. The Assyrian from Nineveh named Nebuchadnezzar is an instrument of God's wrath to mow down the nations. Btw, Daniel 2 is an overview of the Millennium, not ancient history. The mountain that Daniel descend is the New Jerusalem, which shaped like a mountain, not a cube. Babylon was never gold, silver or anything precious, but it will be.

    34 "And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:
    35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?"


    That is, God not only has total power over men and their doings, but men's mechanisms "are as NOTHING" to God. Do you think that the Bible, as it stands to day, with the closing verses of Mark included in all the influential translations, even those who don't use the Alexandrian texts, and which has stood for over 1,700 years, is men's ability to overpower God? Or has God exercised His power to have the version He wanted?

    If these verses are added, God allowed it. He has allowed His faithful to have them. And then again, what grand truth do these verses overturn? Or are they in harmony with the rest of the Bible?
    God can do all things, but are so quick to accuse Him? The thing you are missing is the concept of co-labor. The kingdom of heaven isn't a dictatorship. Men got together and decided what they could and could not believe. Which Bible are you referring to? Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, Coptic, Ethiopian? If God alone wanted a perfect Bible He wouldn't have let so many exist. Also, what about the several books Jesus spoke of and called scripture that are not in the Bible? Unbelief is the problem. The addition to Mark 1400 years later is small potatoes compared to the bigger issues, like missing books.

    God isn't the problem. The unbelief of man is.

  3. #48
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    Re: These signs shall follow them that believe

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnE View Post
    The man of sin is nothing but a thug. The Assyrian from Nineveh named Nebuchadnezzar is an instrument of God's wrath to mow down the nations. Btw, Daniel 2 is an overview of the Millennium, not ancient history. The mountain that Daniel descend is the New Jerusalem, which shaped like a mountain, not a cube. Babylon was never gold, silver or anything precious, but it will be.



    God can do all things, but are so quick to accuse Him? The thing you are missing is the concept of co-labor. The kingdom of heaven isn't a dictatorship. Men got together and decided what they could and could not believe. Which Bible are you referring to? Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, Coptic, Ethiopian? If God alone wanted a perfect Bible He wouldn't have let so many exist. Also, what about the several books Jesus spoke of and called scripture that are not in the Bible? Unbelief is the problem. The addition to Mark 1400 years later is small potatoes compared to the bigger issues, like missing books.

    God isn't the problem. The unbelief of man is.
    You didn't address whether God was able to overcome men who would add or subtract from His desired Word. Your personal speakings with the Lord are your business. If you claim to base the authenticity of the closing verses of Mark on the personal speaking of the Lord Jesus to you, that is fine for you. What we need to established is; can God can have His way with the content of the Bible or not? Your insistence that certain Books that our Lord Jesus wanted in His Word are not there is the highest "unbelief". Either God can do what He claims in Daniel, or He cannot. You seem to think that He is unable to have His way among men. I say that the Bible's layout is EXACTLY how God wanted it - including the closing verses of Mark. They overturn nothing in the rest of the Bible, they are in harmony with the rest of the Bible, and they have been in the New Testament since the late 100's.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    Especially when a person studies the progression of God's use of disciples, first with just the twelve (including Judas), then the many disciples (70/72), then after Pentecost with all the Body of disciples. While the Mark 16 verses can be debated (inclusion in scripture), what CAN'T be debated is that ALL that those verses speak about, there are enough examples found ALL throughout scriptures, showing us all that the "topic" (of those scriptures) cannot be debated.

    "What" those verses speak about... can only be accepted or not be accepted.
    Correct .

  4. #49
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    Re: These signs shall follow them that believe

    Quote Originally Posted by mailmandan View Post
    [FONT="]I was recently in a discussion with a Pentecostal who cited the following verses below in an effort to teach that ONLY those who believe and are baptized will be saved, along with these signs mentioned below MUST follow or else you have not been saved. He calls that the gospel. He especially heavily focuses on tongues and believes that everyone who has not spoken in tongues have not received the Holy Spirit and are not saved. Just how wide spread is that ludicrous doctrine within Pentecostal circles?

    Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and [/FONT]
    [FONT="]preach the gospel[/FONT][FONT="] to every creature.[/FONT]
    [FONT="]16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.[/FONT]
    [FONT="]17 [/FONT][FONT="]And these signs shall follow them that believe;[/FONT][FONT="] In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;[/FONT]
    [FONT="]18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.[/FONT]

    [FONT="]19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.[/FONT]
    [FONT="]20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, [/FONT]and confirming the word with signs following.
    Dan, you shouldn't associate the term 'Pentecostal' with this heresy. Basically, it's the Oneness or Jesus-Only people who don't believe in the Trinity that hold to this erroneous doctrine about only those who speak in tongues are saved. If someone thinks otherwise, I'd ask them to post the tenants of faith of any major pentecostal denomination that says as much.
    Some people don't mind contradicting themselves as long as they can keep disagreeing with you...

  5. #50
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    Re: These signs shall follow them that believe

    Quote Originally Posted by ChangedByHim View Post
    Dan, you shouldn't associate the term 'Pentecostal' with this heresy. Basically, it's the Oneness or Jesus-Only people who don't believe in the Trinity that hold to this erroneous doctrine about only those who speak in tongues are saved. If someone thinks otherwise, I'd ask them to post the tenants of faith of any major pentecostal denomination that says as much.
    Hooah! In many of my posts I've focused on "Oneness" concerning this specific false theology and in their case, doctrine.
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


  6. #51
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    Re: These signs shall follow them that believe

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnE View Post
    I know many cannot accept this, but this part of Mark doesn't sound like Jesus at all. I speak with Him on a daily basis and this just doesn't fit His voice. I asked Him about this and He told me that He didn't say it, and then He showed me where this was added some 1400 years after His death. But, I know how so many love religion in the church, just like the Pharisees. Religion is nothing but a justification for doing evil. In this case, it is a weapon used to cause people to doubt their salvation, and a way to control people. These are satan's ways, not God's.
    John, I had never heard this before, I love when the Lord leads you on a search of a matter. I know for myself that I hold Matthew and John to be the best of the gospels as they were both His disciples. I did search the net on what you say here and did find it out there.
    https://www.gotquestions.org/Mark-16-9-20.html

    The link has links that show it was added as you said, so I learned something new, thank you.

  7. #52
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    Re: These signs shall follow them that believe

    Quote Originally Posted by kyCyd View Post
    John, I had never heard this before, I love when the Lord leads you on a search of a matter. I know for myself that I hold Matthew and John to be the best of the gospels as they were both His disciples. I did search the net on what you say here and did find it out there.
    https://www.gotquestions.org/Mark-16-9-20.html

    The link has links that show it was added as you said, so I learned something new, thank you.
    And as you know a coin has two sides and I learned something too .

    https://www.apologeticspress.org/apc...13&article=704

  8. #53
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    Re: These signs shall follow them that believe

    Quote Originally Posted by ChangedByHim View Post
    Dan, you shouldn't associate the term 'Pentecostal' with this heresy. Basically, it's the Oneness or Jesus-Only people who don't believe in the Trinity that hold to this erroneous doctrine about only those who speak in tongues are saved. If someone thinks otherwise, I'd ask them to post the tenants of faith of any major pentecostal denomination that says as much.
    As I pointed out in post #5, I'm not one who paints the entire Pentecostal movement with a broad brush. I've met wonderful Pentecostals who love the Lord, have a balanced view of scripture and do not abuse spiritual gifts or pervert the gospel, in spite of certain people within Pentecostal circles who have a false theology, abuse spiritual gifts and pervert the gospel. This man I was talking about openly identifies himself as "Pentecostal" and is associated with The Revival Fellowship church and claims he is not Oneness Pentecostal, although Oneness Pentecostals also teach some of the same erroneous doctrines that he teaches.
    Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

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