View Poll Results: Who is the house of Israel to you today?

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Thread: Who is the house of Israel to you today?

  1. #1
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    Who is the house of Israel to you today?

    I was wondering on the Christian knowledge of scriptures as to who they feel is the house of Israel today. Of course we know this started with Jacob who's name was changed to Israel. I wanted to know what Christians thought.

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    Re: Who is the house of Israel to you today?

    Quote Originally Posted by kyCyd View Post
    I was wondering on the Christian knowledge of scriptures as to who they feel is the house of Israel today. Of course we know this started with Jacob who's name was changed to Israel. I wanted to know what Christians thought.
    In Genesis 1:11-12 God set forth an immutable Law. That everything that had seed inside itself would produce according to itself. So when God made the multiple species on earth he only need to create the first pair, and they would produce "according their KIND" (Gen.1:11-12, 21, 24-25). So also with Israel. ONLY those born from the seed of Jacob are the "HOUSE of Israel". Paul defines this connection in Romans 9:3-5.

    3 "For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
    4 Who are Israelites
    ; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
    5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen."


    A stranger could join Israel by the Law, and be counted for the inheritance IF he kept the Law. But for a man or woman to become a Christian a NEW BIRTH is needed (Jn.1:12-13, 3:6). The FLESH of Jacob is good for making the House of Israel. The FLESH is the enemy of God's Spirit which causes men to be BORN ANEW. Thus, the Church and Israel can never be mixed. One is "brethren according to the flesh" and the other is brethren according to the Spirit. And, "... the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would" (Galatians 5:17). Two different and antagonistic ORIGINS make TWO different and antagonistic "HOUSES". One, the house of Israel, and the OTHER, "the House of God" (1st Tim.3:15)

  3. #3
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    Re: Who is the house of Israel to you today?

    I would have to qualify my vote for "both" father and mother provide the basis for the house of Israel. Israel is, I believe, primarily a genetic entity. But nothing has prevented the introduction of alien genes into the genetic mix.

    It is racial because this entity was to have evolved from father Abraham and mother Sarah. It is a gene pool initially established by Abraham and Sarah. Aliens may enter into this gene pool, through union with the culture associated with that gene pool.

    Therefore, both fathers and mothers provide for the continuation of this gene pool. The father's children or the mother's children may depart from this gene pool by marrying outside of it to the complete loss of any association with it. This happens when Jewish People marry outside of the Jewish culture and no longer return to it.

    This was true of many of the Northern Tribes of Israel during the Assyrian Captivity. Some returned and joined Judah during its restoration. But many remained in the Diaspora, and either remained true to the Jewish identity or mixed in with the foreign culture completely.

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    Re: Who is the house of Israel to you today?

    Today's Israel is not split up like the OT Israel was, into two houses. Today Israel are those who believe in Christ, Jews and Gentiles all under the same "roof" if you will, same tree, same body, same spiritual people etc. Non-believers are the gentiles.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: Who is the house of Israel to you today?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    In Genesis 1:11-12 God set forth an immutable Law. That everything that had seed inside itself would produce according to itself. So when God made the multiple species on earth he only need to create the first pair, and they would produce "according their KIND" (Gen.1:11-12, 21, 24-25). So also with Israel. ONLY those born from the seed of Jacob are the "HOUSE of Israel". Paul defines this connection in Romans 9:3-5.

    3 "For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
    4 Who are Israelites
    ; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
    5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen."


    A stranger could join Israel by the Law, and be counted for the inheritance IF he kept the Law. But for a man or woman to become a Christian a NEW BIRTH is needed (Jn.1:12-13, 3:6). The FLESH of Jacob is good for making the House of Israel. The FLESH is the enemy of God's Spirit which causes men to be BORN ANEW. Thus, the Church and Israel can never be mixed. One is "brethren according to the flesh" and the other is brethren according to the Spirit. And, "... the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would" (Galatians 5:17). Two different and antagonistic ORIGINS make TWO different and antagonistic "HOUSES". One, the house of Israel, and the OTHER, "the House of God" (1st Tim.3:15)
    Thank you, I agree with you, there is a difference between the house of God and house of Israel. There are still things that need to be fulfilled re Israel so to me that is the physical seed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    In Genesis 1:11-12 God set forth an immutable Law. That everything that had seed inside itself would produce according to itself. So when God made the multiple species on earth he only need to create the first pair, and they would produce "according their KIND" (Gen.1:11-12, 21, 24-25). So also with Israel. ONLY those born from the seed of Jacob are the "HOUSE of Israel". Paul defines this connection in Romans 9:3-5.

    3 "For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
    4 Who are Israelites
    ; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
    5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen."


    A stranger could join Israel by the Law, and be counted for the inheritance IF he kept the Law. But for a man or woman to become a Christian a NEW BIRTH is needed (Jn.1:12-13, 3:6). The FLESH of Jacob is good for making the House of Israel. The FLESH is the enemy of God's Spirit which causes men to be BORN ANEW. Thus, the Church and Israel can never be mixed. One is "brethren according to the flesh" and the other is brethren according to the Spirit. And, "... the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would" (Galatians 5:17). Two different and antagonistic ORIGINS make TWO different and antagonistic "HOUSES". One, the house of Israel, and the OTHER, "the House of God" (1st Tim.3:15)
    Thank you, I agree with you, there is a difference between the house of God and house of Israel. There are still things that need to be fulfilled re Israel so to me that is the physical seed.

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    Re: Who is the house of Israel to you today?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    I would have to qualify my vote for "both" father and mother provide the basis for the house of Israel. Israel is, I believe, primarily a genetic entity. But nothing has prevented the introduction of alien genes into the genetic mix.

    It is racial because this entity was to have evolved from father Abraham and mother Sarah. It is a gene pool initially established by Abraham and Sarah. Aliens may enter into this gene pool, through union with the culture associated with that gene pool.
    You bring up Abraham and this had to do with Jacob. Esau married of the gene pool of Abraham. Jacob is Israel, and had 4 different women that he produced sons from and we are not told where the handmaids were from. All of Jacobs sons did not marry Hebrew women that I am aware of. So how important was this to the Lord? We know Joseph married an Egyptian. We know Judah took a Canaanite. We know Moses married an Ethiopian.

    Therefore, both fathers and mothers provide for the continuation of this gene pool. The father's children or the mother's children may depart from this gene pool by marrying outside of it to the complete loss of any association with it. This happens when Jewish People marry outside of the Jewish culture and no longer return to it.
    Going by what you say here, Moses sons were not Israel and Joseph's sons were not Israel yet his sons received the blessing of Jacob of his name. And what about Ruth? So what you state is not scriptural. I don't know of any scripture that backs up what you state here. Do you have any?

  7. #7
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    Re: Who is the house of Israel to you today?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Today's Israel is not split up like the OT Israel was, into two houses. Today Israel are those who believe in Christ, Jews and Gentiles all under the same "roof" if you will, same tree, same body, same spiritual people etc. Non-believers are the gentiles.
    If that was true then why did the Lord bring up the tribes in the book of Revelation? There is obviously some sort of separation in who the tribes are even if they are part of the church.

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    Re: Who is the house of Israel to you today?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Today's Israel is not split up like the OT Israel was, into two houses. Today Israel are those who believe in Christ, Jews and Gentiles all under the same "roof" if you will, same tree, same body, same spiritual people etc. Non-believers are the gentiles.
    Consider your statements in the light of scripture.
    Israel was DIVIDED by God. Until Ezekiel Chapter 37 is fulfilled, they will remain DIVIDED. The proof of Ezekiel 37 having been fulfilled is that you can meet Solomon, Saul and Zacharias since they will have been resurrected. Until then, Israel is divided.

    Today's Israel is named Israel POLITICALLY. The BULK of Israelites are still scattered among the nations. They are only gathered as per Ezekiel 37 AFTER the great Tribulation (Matt.24:31)

    You say Israel believes. You say that only the Gentiles are non-believers. This is what scriptures says in Romans 11:25-32;

    25 "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
    ...
    32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all."


    You say, "under one roof". Scripture says "scattered to the four winds". Scriptures says that Paul sorrowed for his "brethren according to the flesh - Israel" (Rom.9:3-4a). Why sorrow when Israel, who are concluded in unbelief by God, are under one roof with the Believers?

    You say Israel are one body with the Church. How then sought Israel to kill off the Christians as enemies of Jehovah?

    You say Israel are one body with the Church, but the Body of Christ is made of those IN Christ (Rom.12:5). But those IN Christ are a New Creature where the past is extinguished (2nd Cor.5:17). If their past was sons of Israel, how could they still be. Did the Holy Spirit make a mistake?

    You say that Israel is a "spiritual people". Scripture says they are "brethren" of Paul's according to the FLESH (Rom.9:3-4a).

    You say that Israel is a "spiritual people". Scripture says in Galatians 4:24-31 that "those of Jerusalem (i) are in bondage, (ii) are typified by Hagar, (iii) are of the fLESH, (iv) are contrasted to the Galatian Church by Sarah, (v) are contrasted to the Galatian Church by New Jerusalem, and (vi) as of the flesh PERSECUTE those of the Spirit. Gentiles are NOT MEANT in this passage but THOSE OF THE LAW. Only Israel received the Law.

    Scripture continuously makes DIFFERENCE between Israel of Egypt, Sinai and Jerusalem AND those IN Christ. And of those IN Christ there is NO Jew, No Greek (Gal.3:28; Col.3:11).

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    Re: Who is the house of Israel to you today?

    Quote Originally Posted by kyCyd View Post
    If that was true then why did the Lord bring up the tribes in the book of Revelation? There is obviously some sort of separation in who the tribes are even if they are part of the church.
    Revelation isnít showing division of Israel but unity.

    Revelation 7 shows that the faithful of Israel were not forgotten or discarded but included together with the great uncountable multitude of faithful Gentiles as one body around the throne serving Christ.

    Revelation 14 likewise shows Israel as numbered and included among those redeemed of Christ from the Earth.

    One body of all faithful Israel and Gentiles, wild and nature branches, United together in Christ as one household of God.

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    Re: Who is the house of Israel to you today?

    Quote Originally Posted by kyCyd View Post
    I was wondering on the Christian knowledge of scriptures as to who they feel is the house of Israel today. Of course we know this started with Jacob who's name was changed to Israel. I wanted to know what Christians thought.
    The house is Israel refers to ethnic Jews - that's what it was in the OT age and it remains the same today.

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    Re: Who is the house of Israel to you today?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Today's Israel is not split up like the OT Israel was, into two houses. Today Israel are those who believe in Christ, Jews and Gentiles all under the same "roof" if you will, same tree, same body, same spiritual people etc. Non-believers are the gentiles.
    The question is "who is the House of Israel to you today?

    1. Today's spiritual Israel are all believing Christians (Jew and Gentile)
    2. But once you add the "house of Israel" it restricts it to ethnic Israel.
    3. As I stated earlier, the house of Israel TODAY is the same as in the OT age - bloodline/ethnic Israel. Christians have no part in it.

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    Re: Who is the house of Israel to you today?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Taylor View Post
    Revelation isnít showing division of Israel but unity.

    Revelation 7 shows that the faithful of Israel were not forgotten or discarded but included together with the great uncountable multitude of faithful Gentiles as one body around the throne serving Christ.

    Revelation 14 likewise shows Israel as numbered and included among those redeemed of Christ from the Earth.

    One body of all faithful Israel and Gentiles, wild and nature branches, United together in Christ as one household of God.
    Nope.

    1. House Israel denotes Israel as unified at the time of David. And the OP specifically mentioned the House of Israel - not Israel standing alone.
    2. But "Israel" standing alone refers to the 10 tribes.
    3. "Spiritual Israel" refers to all the faithful in Christ, Jew and Gentiles. Once Gentile Christians enter the mix, it moves from flesh and blood Israel to spiritual Israel. For e.g. I am a born again Christian, but does that change my English ethnicity to that of Israel? NO! But in spirit, I am of Israel; the chosen generation, royal priesthood, holy nation, a peculiar people, etc (1Peter 2:9)

    You are not the first nor the last to get confused by the phrase *Israel*.

  13. #13
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    Re: Who is the house of Israel to you today?

    I can tell you who the house of Israel today is not, because Jesus and the apostles taught:

    "If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered. And they gather and cast them into the fire, and they are burned."
    (John 15:6, MKJV)

    "And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and became a sharer of the root and the fatness of the olive tree with them, do not boast against the branches. But if you boast, it is not you that bears the root, but the root bears you." (Romans 11:16-17, MKJV)

    Genesis 22:18: "And in your Seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice."

    Gal 3:16: "And to Abraham and to his Seed the promises were spoken. It does not say, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, "And to your Seed," which is Christ."

    The only seed of Abraham through whom all the nations are blessed, is Christ. Those who are not in Him throuogh their faith in Him, are not members of the house of Israel. Jesus (and Paul after Him) made is 100% clear that physical ancestry does not count, but only those who are of the faith of Abraham - and it does not matter if we are not born natural descendants of Abraham:

    "And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and became a sharer of the root and the fatness of the olive tree with them, do not boast against the branches. But if you boast, it is not you that bears the root, but the root bears you." (Romans 11:16-17, MKJV)

    So the house of Israel is not those who reject Christ, whether natural descendants or no.

    So only Christians are "the house of Israel" - so call me a racist, a bigot, a xenophobe, an anti-patriot, a thief, ... all the words C.N.N can think of, I don't care...

    Israel is the church.

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    Re: Who is the house of Israel to you today?

    Quote Originally Posted by m'lo goy View Post

    So only Christians are "the house of Israel" - so call me a racist, a bigot, a xenophobe, an anti-patriot, a thief, ... all the words C.N.N can think of, I don't care...

    Israel is the church.
    Oh, I forgot .. call me a Replacement Theologist all you like, I don't care. Lol. The only Rplacement Theologists are those who are trying to replace the only one true Israel in Christ with another Israel that is no Israel.

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    Re: Who is the house of Israel to you today?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Today's Israel is not split up like the OT Israel was, into two houses. Today Israel are those who believe in Christ, Jews and Gentiles all under the same "roof" if you will, same tree, same body, same spiritual people etc. Non-believers are the gentiles.
    Spot-on

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