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Thread: universal judgment at Christ's Coming

  1. #31
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    Re: universal judgment at Christ's Coming

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    6v7 So the Lord said, “I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, man and animals and creeping things and birds of the heavens, for I am sorry that I have made them.”
    6v11 Now the earth was corrupt in God's sight, and the earth was filled with violence. 12 And God saw the earth, and behold, it was corrupt, for all flesh had corrupted their way on the earth.
    6v13 And God said to Noah, “I have determined to make an end of all flesh, for the earth is filled with violence through them. Behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
    6v17 For behold, I will bring a flood of waters upon the earth to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life under heaven. Everything that is on the earth shall die.
    7v4 For in seven days I will send rain on the earth forty days and forty nights, and every living thing that I have made I will blot out from the face of the ground.”
    (let me add: every living thing - in Hebrew means, all existence)
    7v21 And all flesh died that moved on the earth, birds, livestock, beasts, all swarming creatures that swarm on the earth, and all mankind. 22 Everything on the dry land in whose nostrils was the breath of life died. 23 He blotted out every living thing that was on the face of the ground, man and animals and creeping things and birds of the heavens. They were blotted out from the earth. Only Noah was left, and those who were with him in the ark.
    (let me remind - every living thing in Hebrew means, all existence)

    So please help me find in what God is teaching us that... a great many that exist on the earth, survived?
    When God decides to slaughter a lot of people, it has never been all of them globally except one family. Noah, Lot, the second coming...none are the global slaughter of the wicked/unsaved. In each example, some are targeted to die, some are not. We even see this in Daniel:

    Dan 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
    Dan 7:12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.


    These same ones are those that are ruled over by a rod of iron for a thousand years. Same timeframe as Rev 19-20.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  2. #32
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    Re: universal judgment at Christ's Coming

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    It's far outside such limitations as "global".

    Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
    The premise that this thread and the other is attempting to create is that "earth," "world," "all under heaven" does NOT mean, the entire (or all the) earth globally.

    If that is what the scriptures dealing with the flood show us, then any and all "judgement" related scriptures brought up in this thread have to mean the same. Meaning, not all the earth will face judgement and some unbelievers, will survive (your words).

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    It's far outside such limitations as "global".

    Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
    The premise that this thread and the other is attempting to create is that "earth," "world," "all under heaven" does NOT mean, the entire (or all the) earth globally.

    If that is what the scriptures dealing with the flood show us, then any and all "judgement" related scriptures brought up in this thread have to mean the same. Meaning, not all the earth will face judgement and some unbelievers, will survive (your words).
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


  3. #33
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    Re: universal judgment at Christ's Coming

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Well, the point is that passage is light on details...details Rev supplies such as the thousand years happening after the second coming but before the LOF judgment.
    What you seem to be suggesting is Jesus didn't know what he was talking about, as your interpretation of Rev punches holes in his discourse.
    And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

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    Re: universal judgment at Christ's Coming

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    When God decides to slaughter a lot of people, it has never been all of them globally except one family. Noah, Lot, the second coming...none are the global slaughter of the wicked/unsaved. In each example, some are targeted to die, some are not. We even see this in Daniel:

    Dan 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
    Dan 7:12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.


    These same ones are those that are ruled over by a rod of iron for a thousand years. Same timeframe as Rev 19-20.
    So show me in the scriptures that "I" posted... God didn't mean He was killing off "all in existence."

    Ya can't use S/G because only "a" city was destroyed. Does not relate to "all the earth under heaven."
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


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    Re: universal judgment at Christ's Coming

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    The premise that this thread and the other is attempting to create is that "earth," "world," "all under heaven" does NOT mean, the entire (or all the) earth globally.
    Often that is exactly what it means.

    If that is what the scriptures dealing with the flood show us, then any and all "judgement" related scriptures brought up in this thread have to mean the same. Meaning, not all the earth will face judgement and some unbelievers, will survive (your words).
    According to the bible, yes many survive.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: universal judgment at Christ's Coming

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffweeder View Post
    What you seem to be suggesting is Jesus didn't know what he was talking about, as your interpretation of Rev punches holes in his discourse.
    You are wrong. Jesus revealed as much as he wanted to, when he wanted to. In Rev Jesus gives more details than he gave in the various passages you have posted. Also, it's not wise to ever suggest Jesus didn't know what he was talking about so always best not to include that in any postings.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  7. #37
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    Re: universal judgment at Christ's Coming

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    So show me in the scriptures that "I" posted... God didn't mean He was killing off "all in existence."
    It's been explained many times in this thread already. The wording can be understood in different ways. Throughout the scriptures we see a consistency that not all globally are killed, with the flood and with Sodom and yes that's valid because it's a sister story with the flood related to what happens at the second coming.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  8. #38
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    Re: universal judgment at Christ's Coming

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Often that is exactly what it means.



    According to the bible, yes many survive.
    Help me out then. On Jesus' right, all the believers and on Jesus' left, all unbelievers. Based on the premise of this thread and the other, how many on the side of judgement, survive? You seem to be insisting some unbelievers on the earth survived the flood, you also seem to be insisting that some unbelievers in S/G, survived. Are you going to insist that some on Jesus' left will survive too?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Often that is exactly what it means.



    According to the bible, yes many survive.
    Help me out then. On Jesus' right, all the believers and on Jesus' left, all unbelievers. Based on the premise of this thread and the other, how many on the side of judgement, survive? You seem to be insisting some unbelievers on the earth survived the flood, you also seem to be insisting that some unbelievers in S/G, survived. Are you going to insist that some on Jesus' left will survive too?
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


  9. #39
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    Re: universal judgment at Christ's Coming

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    Help me out then. On Jesus' right, all the believers and on Jesus' left, all unbelievers. Based on the premise of this thread and the other, how many on the side of judgement, survive? You seem to be insisting some unbelievers on the earth survived the flood, you also seem to be insisting that some unbelievers in S/G, survived. Are you going to insist that some on Jesus' left will survive too?
    We have been talking about the second coming and how the flood and the fire of Sodom is compared to that day. We haven't been talking about the GWTJ just before the NHNE. At that time, either ones goes to the NHNE or the LOF on that day, no third group, no survivors.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: universal judgment at Christ's Coming

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    You are wrong. Jesus revealed as much as he wanted to, when he wanted to.
    He laid it all out Bro and demanded us to be ready based on his word alone. Repent while the Gospel is being preached or perish when he comes like a thief.
    That's the way it should be and the way it is going to be.


    Mk 13
    20 Unless the Lord had shortened those days, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect, whom He chose, He shortened the days. 21 And then if anyone says to you, ‘Behold, here is the Christ’; or, ‘Behold, He is there’; do not believe him; 22 for false Christs and false prophets will arise, and will show signs and wonders, in order to lead astray, if possible, the elect. 23 But take heed; behold, I have told you everything in advance.
    And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

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    Re: universal judgment at Christ's Coming

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffweeder View Post
    Shame on those who are not preaching to the whole world the need to be ready before this judgment like Noahs day. Why suggest that it may be a local event and risk complacent attitude to the warning.
    Yes it shall definitely be a global judgement, just as Noah's flood was global. Matthew 24 is 100 percent clear, comparing the flood to the global rapture, which is an even greater judgement for those excluded from the resurrection at the second coming:

    in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left.

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    Re: universal judgment at Christ's Coming

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    In the way you laid this out, let me ask... during the tribulation, will the effects of all those judgments affect unbelievers in the world, meaning as you are saying (NOT global per your understanding of the example during the flood): the unbelievers only in a part of the world or will the judgements affect all the world?
    My view is that the Beast Empire will be based in Europe, a sort of revival of the Roman Empire. It will consist of 10 major nations, and 7 major leaders. So this will not be a global empire, but rather, an empire based in Europe that has world influence and in fact world dominance.

    My guess is that after 3.5 years the world will begin to step up against the Beast's world dominance, and its crushing of human rights. This will lead to Armageddon, a world war instigated by an invasion into Israel. The result will affect much of the earth, in my view.

    I must clarify, however. Your question makes certain presuppositions that I may not agree with. Although judgments are listed throughout the Revelation, I think the vast majority of them actually take place at Armageddon, or just prior. So judgments are not falling throughout the 3.5 years of the reign of the Beast.

    Nevertheless, I don't believe the world of Satan will be a blessed one. And I believe Christians who live in the domain of the Beast, in the empire of the Beast, will have a nice life. This "judgment" of God against sinners will impact Christians in a negative way, but will not actually be a "judgment" against them.

    You may compare this to Jesus' generation, in which he said his fellow Jews would soon go into "great tribulation," beginning with the destruction of Jerusalem (70 AD). Jesus said that many Christians in Israel would suffer this calamity coming upon the Jewish People, including deportations, great material loss, Roman abuses, and persecution by Jewish unbelievers, as well.

    None of this constitutes God's judgment *against* Christians. This is just the lot of Christians in this age, to weather the storms created by unbelievers, in order to demonstrate God's grace towards them.

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    Re: universal judgment at Christ's Coming

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    There is a lot of truth in what you say. More specifically Noah's flood was a universal judgement on the disobedient, which is then compared to missing the rapture as per the wording of Matthew 24:

    For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left.
    I agree with you, though we may look at the "one taken, and one left" differently. I see the "one taken" is those taken by the Romans into exile, or those having their lives taken away by Roman invaders. The "eagles" circled and then slaughtered.

    Those who were "left" were left alive, and survived. I think that language is pretty plain when compared to the Flood, which Jesus said "took away" the wicked. Different Greek words, but mean the same thing.

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    Re: universal judgment at Christ's Coming

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower1977 View Post
    interesting post bro,

    I've often wondered whether the people in Noah's day wee warned also, there's no record in scripture of it but in those early chapters very little is recorded of the times. For instance all we really know of those generations is the line of Seth , at what age they had choldren , thier first sons name, how long they lived...we learn also about Enoch the seventh son of Adam. We have a couple vague references to nephilim, the men of great renown in those days, and a mixing of Adams choldren with seths children but really there is no record of Gods dealings with man from after Adams expulsion and curse , to the flood....there are ten generations of men , who lived nearly a thousand years each before they died in those days...700, 800, 900 year lifespans even after the curse of death in Eden.


    I wish we had more scripture from before the flood , it's apparent things were very very different for mankind then, almost as if we're only a shadow of early man, just before the flood God limits mans years of life to 120 , I often wonder about things in those early generations knowing only that things were not as they were now, but there's so little recorded of those ancient times.


    good post thought provoking..

    one thought I would add is that those who accept the gospel and follow it are standing before the judge now , and as we confess and repent learn and grow , those things we overcome we will not need to answer for ...we can be judged now in mercy in Christ and repent ....so that we don't face judgement without mercy in the end
    Thanks! That's the gospel in a nutshell. If we have Christ in our heart, and follow his word, there is no divine judgment against us. God cannot be against Himself. He is not against His own people.

    I'm convinced the people of Noah's day had entered into a stage of non-repentance, where they no longer listen to appeals to their conscience. They had an internal witness to the word of God, which speaks to every man's conscience.

    But they were so wrapped up in the "mob," and wanted acceptance in that corrupt society so bad, that they abandoned all fear of God. Noah stood as a shining witness. But I'm sure all ignored him as "antisocial."

    That's our fate too, in this fallen age. We're "anti-social." I guess that's the cost of loving others so much that we want them to be spared from God's wrath?

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    Re: universal judgment at Christ's Coming

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffweeder View Post
    I think it means you need to be part of Jesus household in order to be saved when this judgment hits.


    Now as to the times and the epochs, brethren, you have no need of anything to be written to you. 2 For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night. 3 While they are saying, “Peace and safety!” then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape.
    4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief; 5 for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness; 6 so then let us not sleep as others do, but let us be alert and sober. 7 For those who sleep do their sleeping at night, and those who get drunk get drunk at night. 8 But since we are of the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet, the hope of salvation. 9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, so that whether we are awake or asleep, we will live together with Him. 11 Therefore encourage one another and build up one another, just as you also are doing.



    Only Noah and His household survived the ancient world, so only those who belong to Jesus will be saved in this modern world and the rest are going to be swept away.

    We should not be suggesting that some may survive and escape. Shame on anyone who does.
    Oh I do think some may survive Armageddon. But if they do they will still face eternal judgment at their eternal sentencing, if they refuse to repent.

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