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Thread: universal judgment at Christ's Coming

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    universal judgment at Christ's Coming

    Noah's Flood was comprehensive within his civilization at that time. I don't personally know if *all* of mankind at that time lived in the Cradle of Civilization, and died in the Flood. I think it very possible that this Flood was meant to impact the whole world of *Noah's experience,* as a warning of world judgment by fire at the end of history.

    So if Noah's Flood was a warning that all the world would one day be judged by fire, what does this mean? Does it mean that only part of the world will be judged, leaving the righteous unscathed? Does it mean that all of the world must suffer eternal sentencing at Christ's Coming, for Heaven or Hell? Or, is this just a way of saying that when the world is "grown up" that all the world must suffer judgment similar to what Noah's civilization had to suffer?

    I think it was a prediction that sin in mankind always degenerates over time. A nation may start well, but later, the influences of sin tend to take over a society. Then the society must experience comprehensive judgment. We saw this in primitive times with Israel, and we've seen it in the last few centuries in Germany.

    My personal feeling is that this is a warning about great devastation at the end of the age, and not just about eternal sentencing of men to their eternal destiny. It is a warning to men not to capitulate to evil in a day of evil, so that when the earth goes through this final phase of judgment, it will not *lead* to eternal damnation.

    The predicted devastation coming will be, I think, Armageddon--an international nuclear war, in my opinion. It's a warning that God will not tolerate wickedness, and will demonstrate such by bringing great destruction upon the world by war. I think that is the message of John's Revelation.

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    Re: universal judgment at Christ's Coming

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Noah's Flood was comprehensive within his civilization at that time. I don't personally know if *all* of mankind at that time lived in the Cradle of Civilization, and died in the Flood. I think it very possible that this Flood was meant to impact the whole world of *Noah's experience,* as a warning of world judgment by fire at the end of history.

    So if Noah's Flood was a warning that all the world would one day be judged by fire, what does this mean? Does it mean that only part of the world will be judged, leaving the righteous unscathed? Does it mean that all of the world must suffer eternal sentencing at Christ's Coming, for Heaven or Hell? Or, is this just a way of saying that when the world is "grown up" that all the world must suffer judgment similar to what Noah's civilization had to suffer?

    I think it was a prediction that sin in mankind always degenerates over time. A nation may start well, but later, the influences of sin tend to take over a society. Then the society must experience comprehensive judgment. We saw this in primitive times with Israel, and we've seen it in the last few centuries in Germany.

    My personal feeling is that this is a warning about great devastation at the end of the age, and not just about eternal sentencing of men to their eternal destiny. It is a warning to men not to capitulate to evil in a day of evil, so that when the earth goes through this final phase of judgment, it will not *lead* to eternal damnation.

    The predicted devastation coming will be, I think, Armageddon--an international nuclear war, in my opinion. It's a warning that God will not tolerate wickedness, and will demonstrate such by bringing great destruction upon the world by war. I think that is the message of John's Revelation.
    In the way you laid this out, let me ask... during the tribulation, will the effects of all those judgments affect unbelievers in the world, meaning as you are saying (NOT global per your understanding of the example during the flood): the unbelievers only in a part of the world or will the judgements affect all the world?
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


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    Re: universal judgment at Christ's Coming

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Noah's Flood was comprehensive within his civilization at that time. I don't personally know if *all* of mankind at that time lived in the Cradle of Civilization, and died in the Flood. I think it very possible that this Flood was meant to impact the whole world of *Noah's experience,* as a warning of world judgment by fire at the end of history.

    So if Noah's Flood was a warning that all the world would one day be judged by fire, what does this mean? Does it mean that only part of the world will be judged, leaving the righteous unscathed? Does it mean that all of the world must suffer eternal sentencing at Christ's Coming, for Heaven or Hell? Or, is this just a way of saying that when the world is "grown up" that all the world must suffer judgment similar to what Noah's civilization had to suffer?

    I think it was a prediction that sin in mankind always degenerates over time. A nation may start well, but later, the influences of sin tend to take over a society. Then the society must experience comprehensive judgment. We saw this in primitive times with Israel, and we've seen it in the last few centuries in Germany.

    My personal feeling is that this is a warning about great devastation at the end of the age, and not just about eternal sentencing of men to their eternal destiny. It is a warning to men not to capitulate to evil in a day of evil, so that when the earth goes through this final phase of judgment, it will not *lead* to eternal damnation.

    The predicted devastation coming will be, I think, Armageddon--an international nuclear war, in my opinion. It's a warning that God will not tolerate wickedness, and will demonstrate such by bringing great destruction upon the world by war. I think that is the message of John's Revelation.
    There is a lot of truth in what you say. More specifically Noah's flood was a universal judgement on the disobedient, which is then compared to missing the rapture as per the wording of Matthew 24:

    For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left.

  4. #4

    Re: universal judgment at Christ's Coming

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Noah's Flood was comprehensive within his civilization at that time. I don't personally know if *all* of mankind at that time lived in the Cradle of Civilization, and died in the Flood. I think it very possible that this Flood was meant to impact the whole world of *Noah's experience,* as a warning of world judgment by fire at the end of history.

    So if Noah's Flood was a warning that all the world would one day be judged by fire, what does this mean? Does it mean that only part of the world will be judged, leaving the righteous unscathed? Does it mean that all of the world must suffer eternal sentencing at Christ's Coming, for Heaven or Hell? Or, is this just a way of saying that when the world is "grown up" that all the world must suffer judgment similar to what Noah's civilization had to suffer?

    I think it was a prediction that sin in mankind always degenerates over time. A nation may start well, but later, the influences of sin tend to take over a society. Then the society must experience comprehensive judgment. We saw this in primitive times with Israel, and we've seen it in the last few centuries in Germany.

    My personal feeling is that this is a warning about great devastation at the end of the age, and not just about eternal sentencing of men to their eternal destiny. It is a warning to men not to capitulate to evil in a day of evil, so that when the earth goes through this final phase of judgment, it will not *lead* to eternal damnation.

    The predicted devastation coming will be, I think, Armageddon--an international nuclear war, in my opinion. It's a warning that God will not tolerate wickedness, and will demonstrate such by bringing great destruction upon the world by war. I think that is the message of John's Revelation.

    interesting post bro,

    I've often wondered whether the people in Noah's day wee warned also, there's no record in scripture of it but in those early chapters very little is recorded of the times. For instance all we really know of those generations is the line of Seth , at what age they had choldren , thier first sons name, how long they lived...we learn also about Enoch the seventh son of Adam. We have a couple vague references to nephilim, the men of great renown in those days, and a mixing of Adams choldren with seths children but really there is no record of Gods dealings with man from after Adams expulsion and curse , to the flood....there are ten generations of men , who lived nearly a thousand years each before they died in those days...700, 800, 900 year lifespans even after the curse of death in Eden.


    I wish we had more scripture from before the flood , it's apparent things were very very different for mankind then, almost as if we're only a shadow of early man, just before the flood God limits mans years of life to 120 , I often wonder about things in those early generations knowing only that things were not as they were now, but there's so little recorded of those ancient times.


    good post thought provoking..

    one thought I would add is that those who accept the gospel and follow it are standing before the judge now , and as we confess and repent learn and grow , those things we overcome we will not need to answer for ...we can be judged now in mercy in Christ and repent ....so that we don't face judgement without mercy in the end

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    Re: universal judgment at Christ's Coming

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Noah's Flood was comprehensive within his civilization at that time. I don't personally know if *all* of mankind at that time lived in the Cradle of Civilization, and died in the Flood. I think it very possible that this Flood was meant to impact the whole world of *Noah's experience,* as a warning of world judgment by fire at the end of history.

    So if Noah's Flood was a warning that all the world would one day be judged by fire, what does this mean?
    I think it means you need to be part of Jesus household in order to be saved when this judgment hits.


    Now as to the times and the epochs, brethren, you have no need of anything to be written to you. 2 For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night. 3 While they are saying, “Peace and safety!” then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape.
    4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief; 5 for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness; 6 so then let us not sleep as others do, but let us be alert and sober. 7 For those who sleep do their sleeping at night, and those who get drunk get drunk at night. 8 But since we are of the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet, the hope of salvation. 9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, so that whether we are awake or asleep, we will live together with Him. 11 Therefore encourage one another and build up one another, just as you also are doing.



    Only Noah and His household survived the ancient world, so only those who belong to Jesus will be saved in this modern world and the rest are going to be swept away.

    We should not be suggesting that some may survive and escape. Shame on anyone who does.

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    Re: universal judgment at Christ's Coming

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffweeder View Post

    We should not be suggesting that some may survive and escape. Shame on anyone who does.
    Shame on those who shame people?

    A great many survived Noah's flood because the flood didn't come anywhere near them. A great many survived the fire at Sodom because the fire didn't come anywhere near them. A great many will survive the second coming because only certain people are targeted to die ie: only the armies at Armageddon die...many people aren't part of the beast's army and aren't at Armageddon and therefore do survive and are reigned over by Christ.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: universal judgment at Christ's Coming

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower1977 View Post

    I've often wondered whether the people in Noah's day wee warned also, there's no record in scripture of it
    True, But we are warned in todays world. ( Amazing grace.)

    How much more severe then the final judgment to come.
    And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

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    Re: universal judgment at Christ's Coming

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Shame on those who shame people?
    Shame on those who are not preaching to the whole world the need to be ready before this judgment like Noahs day. Why suggest that it may be a local event and risk complacent attitude to the warning.
    And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

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    Re: universal judgment at Christ's Coming

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower1977 View Post
    I've often wondered whether the people in Noah's day wee warned also, there's no record in scripture of it
    They weren't warned:

    Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
    Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: universal judgment at Christ's Coming

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffweeder View Post
    Shame on those who are not preaching to the whole world the need to be ready before this judgment like Noahs day. Why suggest that it may be a local event and risk complacent attitude to the warning.
    The killing isn't going to be global. That's what we have been talking about.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: universal judgment at Christ's Coming

    What will happen to those who did not invite Jesus to reign over them today as the Gospel spread into the whole world....?,


    "I never knew you" will be the last thing they hear as they are separated eternally from his coming presence.

  12. #12

    Re: universal judgment at Christ's Coming

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Noah's Flood was comprehensive within his civilization at that time. I don't personally know if *all* of mankind at that time lived in the Cradle of Civilization, and died in the Flood. I think it very possible that this Flood was meant to impact the whole world of *Noah's experience,* as a warning of world judgment by fire at the end of history.

    So if Noah's Flood was a warning that all the world would one day be judged by fire, what does this mean? Does it mean that only part of the world will be judged, leaving the righteous unscathed? Does it mean that all of the world must suffer eternal sentencing at Christ's Coming, for Heaven or Hell? Or, is this just a way of saying that when the world is "grown up" that all the world must suffer judgment similar to what Noah's civilization had to suffer?

    I think it was a prediction that sin in mankind always degenerates over time. A nation may start well, but later, the influences of sin tend to take over a society. Then the society must experience comprehensive judgment. We saw this in primitive times with Israel, and we've seen it in the last few centuries in Germany.

    My personal feeling is that this is a warning about great devastation at the end of the age, and not just about eternal sentencing of men to their eternal destiny. It is a warning to men not to capitulate to evil in a day of evil, so that when the earth goes through this final phase of judgment, it will not *lead* to eternal damnation.

    The predicted devastation coming will be, I think, Armageddon--an international nuclear war, in my opinion. It's a warning that God will not tolerate wickedness, and will demonstrate such by bringing great destruction upon the world by war. I think that is the message of John's Revelation.
    The flood of Noah's day came from God directly, the workings of man. Of course, the sins of man brought on the judgment. I am just saying that those people in that day didn't cause the rain or open the fountains of the deep. The judgment of God will come from Him directly, not man's weapons. The judgment of fire is just that. Fire from heaven which God sends upon the wicked.

    First, Noah and his family were secured in safety. Then destruction from God came upon the wicked. So it will be again at the third Day of the Lord. Jesus will gather His elect into the wilderness and then cast out satan to punish the sinners, ending with the fourth and final Day of the Lord. Armageddon, in which He comes like a thief to wipe out satan and his army.

    Btw, the end of the age is the end of the Millennium. Just as Jesus answered that question of the disciples in Matt 24:35-36. The day heaven and earth pass away, the day no one knows the day or hour.

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    Re: universal judgment at Christ's Coming

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnE View Post
    Armageddon, in which He comes like a thief to wipe out satan and his army.
    Satan isn't wiped out then...he is cast into a pit for a thousand years, released and only after that is he "wiped out"

    Btw, the end of the age is the end of the Millennium.
    No, the end of this ager will lead to the beginning of the Millennial age. The end of that age leads to the little season and GWTJ and the end of that age leads to the beginning of the eternal age.


    Just as Jesus answered that question of the disciples in Matt 24:35-36. The day heaven and earth pass away, the day no one knows the day or hour.
    The second coming is a thousand years before the day the current heaven and Earth pass away and the NHNE begins.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: universal judgment at Christ's Coming

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnE View Post
    First, Noah and his family were secured in safety. Then destruction from God came upon the wicked. So it will be again at the third Day of the Lord. Jesus will gather His elect into the wilderness and then cast out satan to punish the sinners, ending with the fourth and final Day of the Lord. Armageddon, in which He comes like a thief to wipe out satan and his army.
    The one and only promise of his coming achieves all that in one day.


    2pet 3
    10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.
    11 Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat! 13 But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.



    2Thess 1
    6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, 8 dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed—for our testimony to you was believed.
    And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

  15. #15

    Re: universal judgment at Christ's Coming

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Satan isn't wiped out then...he is cast into a pit for a thousand years, released and only after that is he "wiped out"
    Ezekiel 38 and 39 are 1000 years apart. Satan is wiped out twice. The second time, it is forever. But, you are right in that sense.

    No, the end of this ager will lead to the beginning of the Millennial age. The end of that age leads to the little season and GWTJ and the end of that age leads to the beginning of the eternal age.
    God declared the end from the beginning. The whole age is 7000 years, which includes the Millennium. Jesus was asked and answered this question:

    Matt 24:3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?

    Jesus answered here:

    Matt 24:35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away. 36 But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only.

    Heaven and earth pass away at the end of the age, the end of the Millennium. You are right about that.

    The second coming is a thousand years before the day the current heaven and Earth pass away and the NHNE begins.
    Agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Satan isn't wiped out then...he is cast into a pit for a thousand years, released and only after that is he "wiped out"
    Ezekiel 38 and 39 are 1000 years apart. Satan is wiped out twice. The second time, it is forever. But, you are right in that sense.

    No, the end of this ager will lead to the beginning of the Millennial age. The end of that age leads to the little season and GWTJ and the end of that age leads to the beginning of the eternal age.
    God declared the end from the beginning. The whole age is 7000 years, which includes the Millennium. Jesus was asked and answered this question:

    Matt 24:3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?

    Jesus answered here:

    Matt 24:35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away. 36 But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only.

    Heaven and earth pass away at the end of the age, the end of the Millennium. You are right about that.

    The second coming is a thousand years before the day the current heaven and Earth pass away and the NHNE begins.
    Agreed.

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