Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 67

Thread: 10% Tithing or Give What You Can?

  1. #46
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    In a place of praying hard and trusting God while battling on my knees!
    Posts
    31,668
    Blog Entries
    95

    Re: 10% Tithing or Give What You Can?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    If the woman gave 2 mites, and it was all that she had, then it wasn't a "tithe." A tithe is 10% of your agricultural income. Perhaps she had a special "word of faith?" Certainly that is what Elisha called for with the poor widow when he asked her to give out of her poverty. One cannot bank on a miracle without a word from God. Prophecies are words from God.

    When it comes to the doctrine of giving it is absolutely certain in my mind that God does not expect us to give 10% of our income. That was part of the old temple system of the Law, which required this food to sustain the priests to enable them to perform their particular jobs.

    Those jobs no longer exist. Different jobs exist today, and we have no exact percentage to go by. All we know is that we have been saved for the purpose of love, and by that love we are expected to be concerned for the things of God, as well as for the things of others, including our own families.

    Giving is a matter of personal discretion. Any minister who preaches the Tithe as a mandate from God is, I believe, misrepresenting God. But we should declare real needs wherever they exist. They exist both in homes and in the house of God. If we are able, we should do our proportionate share in assisting with the needs of the house of God.

    I understand why people get confused over the Tithe. Part of our NT Bible contains the Gospels. And in the Gospels Jesus speaks of the Tithe. People don't understand that Jesus, when speaking in the Gospels, was still speaking, largely, while the Law of Moses was still in effect.

    After the cross, Jesus never mentioned tithing. No NT author after the cross speaks of tithing. And that's because tithing is *not* a NT requirement. We are not arguing over the need to give sufficient to meet the need. We are arguing over the 10% Tithe requirement! That is unbiblical.
    Everything you just posted, does not prevent any Christian from giving a portion of their provision back (with a glad heart) to God (2 Cor 9).

    As I mentioned, the "giving" back to God is about faithful stewarding of ANY provision received. I also mentioned 2 Cor 9 and this giving is not under any compulsion.

    Let me ask a question that is outside the box with a quick lead in. The devil does all he can to "steal" from God and also, "imitate" God. In what way can he steal from God, of our freely giving back to God of our provision?
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


  2. #47

    Re: 10% Tithing or Give What You Can?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    If the woman gave 2 mites, and it was all that she had, then it wasn't a "tithe." A tithe is 10% of your agricultural income. Perhaps she had a special "word of faith?" Certainly that is what Elisha called for with the poor widow when he asked her to give out of her poverty. One cannot bank on a miracle without a word from God. Prophecies are words from God.

    When it comes to the doctrine of giving it is absolutely certain in my mind that God does not expect us to give 10% of our income. That was part of the old temple system of the Law, which required this food to sustain the priests to enable them to perform their particular jobs.

    Those jobs no longer exist. Different jobs exist today, and we have no exact percentage to go by. All we know is that we have been saved for the purpose of love, and by that love we are expected to be concerned for the things of God, as well as for the things of others, including our own families.

    Giving is a matter of personal discretion. Any minister who preaches the Tithe as a mandate from God is, I believe, misrepresenting God. But we should declare real needs wherever they exist. They exist both in homes and in the house of God. If we are able, we should do our proportionate share in assisting with the needs of the house of God.

    I understand why people get confused over the Tithe. Part of our NT Bible contains the Gospels. And in the Gospels Jesus speaks of the Tithe. People don't understand that Jesus, when speaking in the Gospels, was still speaking, largely, while the Law of Moses was still in effect.

    After the cross, Jesus never mentioned tithing. No NT author after the cross speaks of tithing. And that's because tithing is *not* a NT requirement. We are not arguing over the need to give sufficient to meet the need. We are arguing over the 10% Tithe requirement! That is unbiblical.
    I see this, too, that a mandated 10% tithing is not for the Church believer, Paul does say "give what you can", it is assuming giving anything, money, time, resources is a matter between God and the believer, but another question arises - who do we give this to?

    Shouldn't the recipient who receives our money, resources, and/or gifts be God led? What if God leads us to give to another charitable organization? Or a family in need?

    I am not against giving to the local church, however, God can lead us to give anywhere. The local church will say that those givings outside of the church should be above and beyond what you give to them, but I don't see this actually Biblical. Can anyone provide scripture that also says this?

    Thanks!

  3. #48
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Pacific NW, USA
    Posts
    11,183

    Re: 10% Tithing or Give What You Can?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    Everything you just posted, does not prevent any Christian from giving a portion of their provision back (with a glad heart) to God (2 Cor 9).

    As I mentioned, the "giving" back to God is about faithful stewarding of ANY provision received. I also mentioned 2 Cor 9 and this giving is not under any compulsion.

    Let me ask a question that is outside the box with a quick lead in. The devil does all he can to "steal" from God and also, "imitate" God. In what way can he steal from God, of our freely giving back to God of our provision?
    You want me to psycho-analyze the Devil? I'm sure he can twist anything to get people to think outside of the way God's love would direct us! I'm less concerned about that than the need to act out of Christ's love to serve the needs of both the church and the home. And I'm concerned for the individual who is put under legal restraints that leads to needless obligations, sometimes that ends up discouraging faith altogether.

    Legalism is a killer, brother. People do certain things that they are put under restraint to do. And then, when that fails, they think God has failed them, or that God doesn't care, and they give up.

    I'm not talking about things like the need to be godly. I'm talking about excessive requirements to be perfect, to have "huge faith," the requirement to "give all you have," the need to give "10% of your gross income," etc.

    None of what we discuss here should discourage anybody from giving to the church, though that could happen. Rather, it should cause Christians to re-analyze the basis of their giving.

    They should go from a requirement to give 10% to the church to figuring out how much they would have to give to meet the annual budget, based on their ability and their fraction of the congregation. They should figure out how to meet other pressing needs without abandoning the church to shortfalls in their financial commitments.

    It all has to do with being responsible based on how God would view the need, rather than how a man or a theologian would define that need based on a false 10% requirement.

    If we're not arguing over the 10% requirement, then we have no argument at all. I trust you're not saying that we *need* the 10% requirement, or the Devil wins?

  4. #49
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    In a place of praying hard and trusting God while battling on my knees!
    Posts
    31,668
    Blog Entries
    95

    Re: 10% Tithing or Give What You Can?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    It all has to do with being responsible based on how God would view the need, rather than how a man or a theologian would define that need based on a false 10% requirement.

    If we're not arguing over the 10% requirement, then we have no argument at all. I trust you're not saying that we *need* the 10% requirement, or the Devil wins?
    Wins, no... steals, yes.

    A perspective voiced by many I've counseled.

    'I won't tithe but I WILL put away 10% of my pay into investments as "I" secure my future and AS I prosper, I will increase the amount I put into "my" investment's'
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


  5. #50
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Pacific NW, USA
    Posts
    11,183

    Re: 10% Tithing or Give What You Can?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidC View Post
    I see this, too, that a mandated 10% tithing is not for the Church believer, Paul does say "give what you can", it is assuming giving anything, money, time, resources is a matter between God and the believer, but another question arises - who do we give this to?

    Shouldn't the recipient who receives our money, resources, and/or gifts be God led? What if God leads us to give to another charitable organization? Or a family in need?

    I am not against giving to the local church, however, God can lead us to give anywhere. The local church will say that those givings outside of the church should be above and beyond what you give to them, but I don't see this actually Biblical. Can anyone provide scripture that also says this?

    Thanks!
    There is nothing that says we give to the local church first, and then to anywhere else--particularly not 10%! What the Scriptures say is that we seek the Kingdom of God and His righteousness 1st, and then all things will be added to us.

    So our priority is to be God's Kingdom. When we 1st get saved, we begin with that premise, that salvation is 1st, and everything flows out of that. We are to seek His will, and what we do enjoy in life we enjoy with gratitude, praising and thanking God for His many gifts. When we don't get what we want, we give praise to God anyway, for His goodness and out of recognition that His ways always trump our ways. We will never fully understand heaven. But we can always understand His goodness.

    Once I got past the 10% thing I began to understand what seeking the Lord's will meant, and what pursuing the Kingdom of God 1st meant. It meant living our whole lives for the Lord. And if we do, all the priorities naturally develop. We care for our family, we care for our fellow Christians, we care for the church, and we care for our neighbors.

    Keep in mind that God wants us to rest, as well, to reenergize ourselves to return to our jobs. Recreation is part of the enjoyment in life that God wants us to have--otherwise, how can we be thankful? God really wants us to *enjoy* life, and to enjoy a *quality of life,* along with all of the rigors and problems we will face.

    Eccl 5.18 This is what I have observed to be good: that it is appropriate for a person to eat, to drink and to find satisfaction in their toilsome labor under the sun during the few days of life God has given them—for this is their lot.
    Eccl 9.9 Enjoy life with your wife, whom you love, all the days of this meaningless life that God has given you under the sun—all your meaningless days. For this is your lot in life and in your toilsome labor under the sun.
    Eccl 11.8 However many years anyone may live, let them enjoy them all. But let them remember the days of darkness, for there will be many. Everything to come is meaningless.


    We divide our finances to be able to afford what our obligations are. The local church is, in fact, one of our obligations, since we use that resource. We could, of course, meet in our homes with an unpaid leadership. But quite often, we choose to have a bigger fellowship, and to hopefully reach out to more. So we owe the church our part in supporting it financially.

    Just consider what the sum total of the real needs of the church are. Look at your church's financial statement. You can take the monthly commitments and divide it between the number of employed families, recognizing that some are more well off than others. Then simply obligate yourself--not to 10% but to whatever you believe is sufficient to meet the need.

    Our family set a figure, which is less than 10% of our Net. But then again, we never are able to keep our Net anyway! Not like an apple tree with 100 apples, and giving away 10 apples allows us to keep 90 for ourselves. Out of our net other needs arise in the modern age that never would've come up on a farm with no technology and a much smaller population. Just give according to your sense of what would be right, to meet the legitimate needs. Ignore people who try to put you under a "10% burden." You are *not* under the Law of Moses! Don't obligate yourself foolishly, but carefully consider what you will give to your church, because they have to depend on it, based on their projection of an annual budget.

    Eccl 5.5 It is better not to make a vow than to make one and not fulfill it.

  6. #51
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Pacific NW, USA
    Posts
    11,183

    Re: 10% Tithing or Give What You Can?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    Wins, no... steals, yes.

    A perspective voiced by many I've counseled.

    'I won't tithe but I WILL put away 10% of my pay into investments as "I" secure my future and AS I prosper, I will increase the amount I put into "my" investment's'
    This wouldn't be characteristic of a real, conscientious Christian, I should think? How can a Christian with conscience not consider that the local church has real bills to pay that must be paid by somebody? How can anybody ignore the present needs while building a retirement? I agree with you that would be wrong.

    But I don't believe that dismissing the "10% obligation" incentivizes this lapse in judgment if the alternative to it is taught! In other words, instead of teaching the 10% tithe the leadership in a church should teach how Christians are to live, meet their obligations, and order their financial lives aright. This would give no foothold for the Devil.

    I do see a rationale for giving less than 10% in order to grow investments. If the church does not really *need* everybody's 10%, but actually need only 5%, then it's wise to invest and to develop not just more money to invest but also more money to give and a retirement to look forward to. That will equip the next generation with "starter money," which again can help the church with people who "have money."

    What we see today in some ministries is that when people give 10% and those ministries only really need 5%, they will always use the extra money to overspend on things they don't need, to try to build the church beyond its abilities. Ministries always want more, and will always spend everything you give them.

    This is no different than the individual family that overspends on its own self-interests and luxuries. We need to be careful not to spend too much on ourselves, and also watch to not overspend on church ministries that are "greedy." Should you, for example, up your "tithe" to buy a plush carpet for the church? You have to decide what the wise thing to do is. Nobody should tell you what you *should do* according to an outdated law!

  7. #52
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Pacific NW, USA
    Posts
    11,183

    Re: 10% Tithing or Give What You Can?

    Let me just say, lest you think I'm arguing for the sake of arguing, or just dealing with hypotheticals. Our own church is, in my view, overspending, and at the same time teaching, every Sunday, that the entire church is obligated to give a tenth of our income, and only after that give to other ministries in the church, such as missions, and building a house for our associate pastor, who only occasionally delivers a sermon when the pastor is sick or on vacation. Our church board is a "yes man," and constantly lavishes upon the ministers vacations, birthday and anniversary cards/gifts, and a blank check for anything the pastor "feels led" to support.

    For example, we recently had a man from Romania come, and the pastor "felt led" that we should give him the amount we still owe on the associate pastor's house, which we are building. I have to admit, the church, as small as it is, is very generous. And maybe even this was a justified project. But I really wonder how many times this has happened when we actually were being led to give erroneously? In that case, we should not just give 10% to the church, but only according to how we, as members, feel we should give, based on what projects we actually believe in.

  8. #53
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    In a place of praying hard and trusting God while battling on my knees!
    Posts
    31,668
    Blog Entries
    95

    Re: 10% Tithing or Give What You Can?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    This is no different than the individual family that overspends on its own self-interests and luxuries. We need to be careful not to spend too much on ourselves, and also watch to not overspend on church ministries that are "greedy." Should you, for example, up your "tithe" to buy a plush carpet for the church? You have to decide what the wise thing to do is. Nobody should tell you what you *should do* according to an outdated law!
    Not disregarding all your post but this is where the heart of faithful giving lies.

    Does one base their giving on what's left after the overspending and "trap" of self-inflicted debt CONTROLLING where any and all monies go? Or does one faithfully GIVE back to God and with what remains, stewards (controls) their spending?

    The more people you know who "give" first, are the one's who steward properly and when God "gives" them more... they don't allow that extra provision to cause them to overspend. Instead, they OVER-give while remaining in absolute control (stewarding) of their provision.

    If a "church" stewards all offering, then there will never be a need to request greater offering. Instead, God will MOVE people to give more if there is a need or "will" be a need, the church will "find" people moved to give more and this extra needs to be stewarded by the church financial leaders/administration (treasurer). When the need suddenly arises, the provision has already been given and put away, for needs. Yes I know, churches MAKE needs too... not gonna go there with ya, yet.

    But... this does mean those in the church need to be in obedience to financial stewardship and to giving with a glad heart and when greater provision is given, KNOW that God may be calling for more/greater giving and the heart will be made GLADDER :-)
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


  9. #54
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Coastal Mountains
    Posts
    8,236

    Re: 10% Tithing or Give What You Can?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Let me just say, lest you think I'm arguing for the sake of arguing, or just dealing with hypotheticals. Our own church is, in my view, overspending, and at the same time teaching, every Sunday, that the entire church is obligated to give a tenth of our income, and only after that give to other ministries in the church, such as missions, and building a house for our associate pastor, who only occasionally delivers a sermon when the pastor is sick or on vacation. Our church board is a "yes man," and constantly lavishes upon the ministers vacations, birthday and anniversary cards/gifts, and a blank check for anything the pastor "feels led" to support.

    For example, we recently had a man from Romania come, and the pastor "felt led" that we should give him the amount we still owe on the associate pastor's house, which we are building. I have to admit, the church, as small as it is, is very generous. And maybe even this was a justified project. But I really wonder how many times this has happened when we actually were being led to give erroneously? In that case, we should not just give 10% to the church, but only according to how we, as members, feel we should give, based on what projects we actually believe in.
    Exactly, the NT is perfectly clear that we should give from our hearts, not under compulsion.
    Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. 7 Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

    It is therefore wrong to give people a sense of compulsion by suggesting 10 percent.

  10. #55
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Coastal Mountains
    Posts
    8,236

    Re: 10% Tithing or Give What You Can?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    Not disregarding all your post but this is where the heart of faithful giving lies.

    Does one base their giving on what's left after the overspending and "trap" of self-inflicted debt CONTROLLING where any and all monies go? Or does one faithfully GIVE back to God and with what remains, stewards (controls) their spending?

    The more people you know who "give" first, are the one's who steward properly and when God "gives" them more... they don't allow that extra provision to cause them to overspend. Instead, they OVER-give while remaining in absolute control (stewarding) of their provision.

    If a "church" stewards all offering, then there will never be a need to request greater offering. Instead, God will MOVE people to give more if there is a need or "will" be a need, the church will "find" people moved to give more and this extra needs to be stewarded by the church financial leaders/administration (treasurer). When the need suddenly arises, the provision has already been given and put away, for needs. Yes I know, churches MAKE needs too... not gonna go there with ya, yet.

    But... this does mean those in the church need to be in obedience to financial stewardship and to giving with a glad heart and when greater provision is given, KNOW that God may be calling for more/greater giving and the heart will be made GLADDER :-)
    Collections were not even regular/weekly in the NT church, just when the need arose.

    For example when Paul wanted to collect money from the Corinthians for the church in Jerusalem, he wanted them to actually finish collecting their gift before he even arrived at Corinth:
    1 Cor 16:6 Now about the collection for the Lord’s people: Do what I told the Galatian churches to do. 2 On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with your income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made.

    He didn't see a need for any regular collections after he arrived there, "no collections will have to be made"

    The church was meeting spontaneously in each other's homes, and the town elders had minimal functions, because the church was well trained to do the "works of service". The only need was for special collections for the poor, orphans, widows and to send to other towns.

    And I'm sure there were special collections too for those who work hard in the Lord, for "the worker deserves his wages" and "do not muzzle the oxen".

  11. #56
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Pacific NW, USA
    Posts
    11,183

    Re: 10% Tithing or Give What You Can?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    Not disregarding all your post but this is where the heart of faithful giving lies.

    Does one base their giving on what's left after the overspending and "trap" of self-inflicted debt CONTROLLING where any and all monies go? Or does one faithfully GIVE back to God and with what remains, stewards (controls) their spending?

    The more people you know who "give" first, are the one's who steward properly and when God "gives" them more... they don't allow that extra provision to cause them to overspend. Instead, they OVER-give while remaining in absolute control (stewarding) of their provision.

    If a "church" stewards all offering, then there will never be a need to request greater offering. Instead, God will MOVE people to give more if there is a need or "will" be a need, the church will "find" people moved to give more and this extra needs to be stewarded by the church financial leaders/administration (treasurer). When the need suddenly arises, the provision has already been given and put away, for needs. Yes I know, churches MAKE needs too... not gonna go there with ya, yet.

    But... this does mean those in the church need to be in obedience to financial stewardship and to giving with a glad heart and when greater provision is given, KNOW that God may be calling for more/greater giving and the heart will be made GLADDER :-)
    This brings up all kinds of issues, and I'm not sure I can balance them all at this point. Let me just give you snippets of what I think about all this. In principle much of what you say is correct. You give to God up front with money that you actually have, *before* you waste it all on excesses. But this presupposes that you actually have money up front!

    In our society, generally, the supposed money "up front" would be money left over after paying bills and obligations. The church is only one of many obligations, including saving up for periodic taxation, food, clothes, rent/mortgage, utilities, transportation, and perhaps even retirement savings.

    So when you suggest we pay the church "up front" the question is, How much? If we depend on a legalistic 10% figure, we are not budgeting at all, but only serving some outdated law that never applied to us!

    But if we realistically budget, then none of it is about spending on luxuries or wants. It is about realistically considering what is necessary for our family to live on a monthly and yearly basis, as well as over a lifetime. It may indeed require investments like a 401K.

    It is wrong for a pastor to tell his congregation they are required by God to pay 10% up front, in this respect. This is not money we "owe God" up front. Rather, this is an arbitrary figure, obtained from an outmoded law that applied only under the Old Covenant.

    Speaking the truth thus does not give Satan an excuse to "steal" from God, and does not give Christians rationale to avoid paying a real "obligation" to the church, to meet its financial needs. If we would only be clear, as churches, what the basic needs of the church are, and what are extra "wants," Christians could more realistically budget for this, and can opt out of good, but unnecessary, projects. It all depends on what they actually have, up front.

    I find that among some churches I've attended, everything is a matter of "faith," or what I call, "presumption." It isn't real budgeting, but it is real faith. It's just "blind faith." I've seen a church refuse to be up front about all its needs, and just pass the plate in faith. And I've seen God very much bless that church.

    But for me, the better way is honesty and forthrightness. Just tell the congregation what the basic needs are, and then leave it to the congregation to position themselves to play their responsible part.

    None of this is an "encouragement" to the Devil. "Honesty" is not an encouragement to hide in the back pew and give only an occasional 10 dollars or so. Only irresponsible Christians want to hide in the darkness. Faith, in my opinion, is not leaving the financial needs of the church in the darkness. It is bringing the truth out into the light so that individual Christians can also expose their own budgeting to the light of the truth.

  12. #57
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Pacific NW, USA
    Posts
    11,183

    Re: 10% Tithing or Give What You Can?

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    Collections were not even regular/weekly in the NT church, just when the need arose.

    For example when Paul wanted to collect money from the Corinthians for the church in Jerusalem, he wanted them to actually finish collecting their gift before he even arrived at Corinth:
    1 Cor 16:6 Now about the collection for the Lord’s people: Do what I told the Galatian churches to do. 2 On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with your income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made.

    He didn't see a need for any regular collections after he arrived there, "no collections will have to be made"

    The church was meeting spontaneously in each other's homes, and the town elders had minimal functions, because the church was well trained to do the "works of service". The only need was for special collections for the poor, orphans, widows and to send to other towns.

    And I'm sure there were special collections too for those who work hard in the Lord, for "the worker deserves his wages" and "do not muzzle the oxen".
    I agree. The giving was done out of "ability." Not everybody paid a "10% tithe" up front. And note that the biggest giving likely came from the owner of the house being met in, and the apostle himself, who chose to serve for free. We pay for bigger churches today in order to reach more people in our community, and to enlarge the fellowship. And we pay the pastors because they are, Scripturally, entitled to a salary. It really depends on the prosperity of the congregation.

  13. #58

    Re: 10% Tithing or Give What You Can?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    Not disregarding all your post but this is where the heart of faithful giving lies.

    Does one base their giving on what's left after the overspending and "trap" of self-inflicted debt CONTROLLING where any and all monies go? Or does one faithfully GIVE back to God and with what remains, stewards (controls) their spending?

    The more people you know who "give" first, are the one's who steward properly and when God "gives" them more... they don't allow that extra provision to cause them to overspend. Instead, they OVER-give while remaining in absolute control (stewarding) of their provision.

    If a "church" stewards all offering, then there will never be a need to request greater offering. Instead, God will MOVE people to give more if there is a need or "will" be a need, the church will "find" people moved to give more and this extra needs to be stewarded by the church financial leaders/administration (treasurer). When the need suddenly arises, the provision has already been given and put away, for needs. Yes I know, churches MAKE needs too... not gonna go there with ya, yet.

    But... this does mean those in the church need to be in obedience to financial stewardship and to giving with a glad heart and when greater provision is given, KNOW that God may be calling for more/greater giving and the heart will be made GLADDER :-)
    In 1 Cor 9:14 teaches us those who teach the gospel should make their living by the gospel, assuming those who hear him teach should provide for his needs. I think churches used to provide housing to those who preached. If we are hearing the word through a pastor, we should help provide for their needs, it's scriptural.

    If a person is helping those outside of the church, providing aid to homeless people, helping single mothers financially with their children or helping widows and orphans - all outside of the church, are you stating these people are financially disobedient because they are not giving to the church? Even though their hearts are gladder because they are giving.

    Curious to know where the notion came from that giving to the church is responsible and obedient, especially if you're the "first" one who does it, versus taking James to heart when he says true religion is taking care of the widows and the orphans, and instead of giving all to a church, we give some to the church but the majority to the widows and orphans. How is this being disobedient?

  14. #59
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    In a place of praying hard and trusting God while battling on my knees!
    Posts
    31,668
    Blog Entries
    95

    Re: 10% Tithing or Give What You Can?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidC View Post
    Curious to know where the notion came from that giving to the church is responsible and obedient, especially if you're the "first" one who does it, versus taking James to heart when he says true religion is taking care of the widows and the orphans, and instead of giving all to a church, we give some to the church but the majority to the widows and orphans. How is this being disobedient?
    It is not. We cannot forget however that by giving to the church, to ministries, serving in churches that help others, providing funds necessary so that church(es) can REACH out to the lost, to the widows, to the orphans, to those who are incarcerated. IS also helping them all. And also by so doing, you are serving and helping Christ (Matthew 25).
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


  15. #60
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Pacific NW, USA
    Posts
    11,183

    Re: 10% Tithing or Give What You Can?

    Please keep in mind I'm a *big believer* in supporting the local church. It is the springboard for witnessing to the immediate community. Hopefully the membership will take the spirituality built up in the church out into their neighborhoods and jobs.

    The local church is also the crucible in which our Christian fellowship is "tested" with one another. Our love, if it cannot withstand trials among brothers, will likely not survive the mandate to "love your enemies."

    My biggest concern is that all authority in the church become concentrated in one or two pastors. In that case, their imperfections will infect all. A strong group of elders, as well as a responsible board, are necessary along with the pastoral leadership. A good pastor will make use of all of the gifts in the church, and will allow others to hold himself accountable. A church with a pastor open to correction is a rare jewel, in my view. But all pastors have to be respected and given time to hear from God themselves. Often those who criticize him are wrong or have a critical spirit.

    I will not punish a pastor for not doing exactly what I want him to do. None of us are perfect, and we still need money to live. We need time to refine ourselves, through the help of God. A double blessing on pastors, and all ministers of the gospel. The more kinds of ministers there are, the better. And they all certainly need sufficient financial help to meet their needs. Hopefully they will get more in abundance!

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Discussion Did Tithing help?
    By Sig Sauer in forum Bible Chat
    Replies: 246
    Last Post: May 17th 2011, 04:01 AM
  2. tithing
    By peacewithin in forum Bible Chat
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: Jun 8th 2010, 09:44 PM
  3. Tithing...HELP
    By kkimmm in forum Bible Chat
    Replies: 142
    Last Post: Sep 28th 2009, 12:05 AM
  4. Need Advice: ~*JUICE! To GIVE or Not to GIVE? *~
    By sedux in forum Women at the well
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: Aug 4th 2009, 03:21 AM
  5. Tithing
    By j79k2000 in forum Bible Chat
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: Apr 18th 2008, 11:16 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •