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Thread: Who is this beast?

  1. #16
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    Re: Who is this beast?

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    It’s quite something that people keep saying the antichrist when there isn’t any the antichrist the bible says that there are many antichrist but who were they?

    Below are the only verses in the bible with the word antichrist

    2 John 1:7
    7 I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.

    1 John 4:3
    3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

    1 John 2:22
    22 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son.

    1 John 2:18-19
    18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

    John tells us that antichrist is a spirit and John describes the non believing Jews of his days as that antichrists spirit
    We can call him Concrete as long as we are speaking about The Man of Sin, The Assyrian, The Little Horn, The Wicked One, etc. etc. etc. his many names. And yes, one o his names is Anti-Christ because John pointed to THAT Anti-Christ. It simply means one that is aGainst God/Christ and he will be against Jesus who is God. The reason its called an ANTI.....Christ/God being is it is an uncreated Spirit, its always been just like God and Jesus. Its not Satan, hes a Created being. Not many get this, BUT....if God is Eternal and he is, then this OPPOSITE Spirit also has to be Eternal. God is Hly thus there has to be an opposite SPIRIT ETERNALLY just like God is Eternal.

    Don't get caught up in the name, we all know who he is and his MANY NAMES.....if we all agree to call hm Pogo Stick.....its OK, its just a name. I never get those who worry about people who call him the Anti-Christ, which he is.

    Hint, I call him the Anti-Christ {what he is now} until he conquers Jerusalem/Mediterranean Sea Region, then I call him the Beast.

    So you are right, the anti-christ spirit is a spirit, I contend its an Eternal spirit, but John spoke o a MAN....THAT....Anti-Christ, he was pointing to the coming Man of Sin, the Assyrian, the Little Horn. So he is THAT ANTI-CHRIST.....So I am OK with the Moniker.

    I mean we call it the Lords Prayer and its really the Disciples Prayer right ? Jesus said "PRAY LIKE THIS".....to the Disciples.

  2. #17
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    Re: Who is this beast?

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    We can call him Concrete as long as we are speaking about The Man of Sin, The Assyrian, The Little Horn, The Wicked One, etc. etc. etc. his many names. And yes, one o his names is Anti-Christ because John pointed to THAT Anti-Christ. It simply means one that is aGainst God/Christ and he will be against Jesus who is God. The reason its called an ANTI.....Christ/God being is it is an uncreated Spirit, its always been just like God and Jesus. Its not Satan, hes a Created being. Not many get this, BUT....if God is Eternal and he is, then this OPPOSITE Spirit also has to be Eternal. God is Hly thus there has to be an opposite SPIRIT ETERNALLY just like God is Eternal.

    Don't get caught up in the name, we all know who he is and his MANY NAMES.....if we all agree to call hm Pogo Stick.....its OK, its just a name. I never get those who worry about people who call him the Anti-Christ, which he is.

    Hint, I call him the Anti-Christ {what he is now} until he conquers Jerusalem/Mediterranean Sea Region, then I call him the Beast.

    So you are right, the anti-christ spirit is a spirit, I contend its an Eternal spirit, but John spoke o a MAN....THAT....Anti-Christ, he was pointing to the coming Man of Sin, the Assyrian, the Little Horn. So he is THAT ANTI-CHRIST.....So I am OK with the Moniker.

    I mean we call it the Lords Prayer and its really the Disciples Prayer right ? Jesus said "PRAY LIKE THIS".....to the Disciples.
    I offered scriptures to my points but you didn't for any of your claims especially about the antichrist spirit not being created but the scripture below proves your view wrong

    1 Timothy 6:13-16
    13 In the sight of God, who gives life to everything, and of Christ Jesus, who while testifying before Pontius Pilate made the good confession, I charge you 14 to keep this command without spot or blame until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 which God will bring about in his own timeóGod, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.

    God is the only uncreated being and He created everything and is the only eternal one

  3. #18
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    Re: Who is this beast?

    [QUOTE=ross3421;3517573]

    That's the problem these four kingdoms is Dan 2 are NOT the same four!!!!!!
    As I pointed out, in both Dan 2 and Dan 7 the 4th kingdom is described as "breaking into pieces" the world in its time, including previous kingdoms in that region. This is no accident. This 4th kingdom is, I believe, the same kingdom, the Roman Empire.

    Quote Originally Posted by ross
    These four in Dan 7 are the four which come out of the third kingdom broken into four parts!!!!!
    Yes, the 3rd Kingdom, which I believe is Greece, is broken up into 4 parts. However, this bears no relation to the fact there are 4 kingdoms in Dan 7--not anymore than they are relevant to the fact Dan 2 mentions 4 kingdoms!

    It is simply a fact of history that Alexander's Empire broke up into 4 areas, which is significant because 2 of those areas continued to play a big role in Israel's history, particularly in the time of Antiochus 4! Your assignment of 4 areas of Greece to the 4 kingdoms of Dan 7 is therefore completely arbitrary to me. You might as well assign them to the 4 directions, north, south, east, and west, or to the 4 corners of a couch.

    Quote Originally Posted by ross
    8 Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven. 9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

    The four notable ones are the lion, bear, leopard, beast.

    You see God has four beasts (four kings) which are part of his kingdom which shall rule all at one time upon the earth. Likewise prior to this an other four kings which shall arise all at once upon the earth mimicking the kingdom but this kingdom is from below not above. The four beasts of this kingdom below which come up all at once are the lion, bear, leopard, beast.

    Do you not see the parallel counterfeit deception?
    I can see that the pagan kingdoms of this world are led by angels of darkness. But I can't at all say that your prophetic interpretation is correct. We'll agree to disagree agreeably.

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    Re: Who is this beast?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Yes, I understand the arguments. However, the same could be applied to the apostate Church. The Church consists of sheep, and in a state of apostasy acts like the Devil. The Catholic Church, at the time of its apostasy during the Protestant Reformation, murdered lots of Protestant Christians.

    There is really no difference in how you apply this to Israel as to how I apply it to the apostate Church. The major problem for me is that the 4 Beasts are, for me, identified in Daniel as beginning with Babylon and ending with Rome, who crucified Christ and destroyed the temple and Jerusalem.

    The beast, therefore, is Rome. The Antichrist and the False Prophet both will rule over a last days version of the old pagan Roman Empire. Just my opinion.
    But there is a difference Jesus actually tied apostate Israel to the false prophet He didn't do that to anyone else

    We need to take into account what actually happened at Jesus' death it was a major event and satans highest priority and a beast would be behind it

  5. #20
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    Re: Who is this beast?

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    But there is a difference Jesus actually tied apostate Israel to the false prophet He didn't do that to anyone else

    We need to take into account what actually happened at Jesus' death it was a major event and satans highest priority and a beast would be behind it
    Sorry, Marty, I don't see anywhere that Israel is tied, biblically, to the False Prophet of Rev 13! Many in Israel were called "false prophets" in the OT because at that time only Israel had an orthodox form of prophesying. False prophecy would logically take place in Israel at that time.

    None of this means Israel is tied to the False Prophet. In the NT era the gift of prophecy extended well beyond Israel to any nation that chooses to accept Christianity. The Roman Church was one of those "prophets" in the NT era that adopted not just a nation but also an empire! Clearly, Rome could produce a "false prophet?"

    The fact there was not just one Beast but *two Beasts* in Rev 13 indicates to me that the 2nd Beast is tied to the 1st one. If the Beast Empire represents a revival of the old Roman Empire, then it stands to reason that the False Prophet is a corrupt pope over that Roman Empire.

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    Re: Who is this beast?

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    I offered scriptures to my points but you didn't for any of your claims especially about the antichrist spirit not being created but the scripture below proves your view wrong

    1 Timothy 6:13-16
    13 In the sight of God, who gives life to everything, and of Christ Jesus, who while testifying before Pontius Pilate made the good confession, I charge you 14 to keep this command without spot or blame until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 which God will bring about in his own time—God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.

    God is the only uncreated being and He created everything and is the only eternal one
    Scriptures mean nothing if you don't understand the concept brother. Just because you post scriptures prove nothing when I point out John calls him THAT ANTI-CHRIST it trumps all of those passages you use. Would you rather we say 15 words hes described by everytime we mention his name ? Its a nonsensical position tbh.

    Lets call him football...you want too ? It doesn't matter what we call him. The static about this just makes me SMH.

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    Re: Who is this beast?

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    Scriptures mean nothing if you don't understand the concept brother. Just because you post scriptures prove nothing when I point out John calls him THAT ANTI-CHRIST it trumps all of those passages you use. Would you rather we say 15 words hes described by everytime we mention his name ? Its a nonsensical position tbh.

    Lets call him football...you want too ? It doesn't matter what we call him. The static about this just makes me SMH.
    Which Scripture by John do you mean?

    You completely ignored my scripture about God being the only uncreated and eternal one can you admit that you were mistaken? We all are at times

  8. #23
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    Re: Who is this beast?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Sorry, Marty, I don't see anywhere that Israel is tied, biblically, to the False Prophet of Rev 13! Many in Israel were called "false prophets" in the OT because at that time only Israel had an orthodox form of prophesying. False prophecy would logically take place in Israel at that time.

    None of this means Israel is tied to the False Prophet. In the NT era the gift of prophecy extended well beyond Israel to any nation that chooses to accept Christianity. The Roman Church was one of those "prophets" in the NT era that adopted not just a nation but also an empire! Clearly, Rome could produce a "false prophet?"

    The fact there was not just one Beast but *two Beasts* in Rev 13 indicates to me that the 2nd Beast is tied to the 1st one. If the Beast Empire represents a revival of the old Roman Empire, then it stands to reason that the False Prophet is a corrupt pope over that Roman Empire.
    But I did show Jesus calling The Pharisees false prophets in the NT area and Jesus did directly tie the verses in revelation to The Pharisees of His days

    Here is Moses warning and tying Israel to the false prophet

    Rev 13:13-16
    13 And he doth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. 15 The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. 16 It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads,

    Mosses warned us about this in.

    Deuteronomy 13:1-3
    If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a sign or wonder, 2 and if the sign or wonder spoken of takes place, and the prophet says, ďLet us follow other godsĒ (gods you have not known) ďand let us worship them,Ē 3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The Lord your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul

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    Re: Who is this beast?

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    But I did show Jesus calling The Pharisees false prophets in the NT area and Jesus did directly tie the verses in revelation to The Pharisees of His days
    Yes, I did acknowledge that Jesus called the Pharisees "false prophets," one way or another. Jesus would *not* be calling anybody outside of Israel "false prophets" at that time because he was sent only to Israel at that time.

    Jesus did not tie Revelation to his calling the Pharisees "false prophets," as far as I can tell?

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox
    Here is Moses warning and tying Israel to the false prophet

    Rev 13:13-16
    13 And he doth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. 15 The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. 16 It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads,

    Mosses warned us about this in.

    Deuteronomy 13:1-3
    If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a sign or wonder, 2 and if the sign or wonder spoken of takes place, and the prophet says, ďLet us follow other godsĒ (gods you have not known) ďand let us worship them,Ē 3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The Lord your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul
    This "connection" is indirect, and a very loose correlation. I couldn't bank on that, Marty. Again, when the Gospel advanced Israel's place as "God's People" to encompass the international Church, so did the gift of Prophecy. In that case, "false prophecy" exists outside of Israel, and not just in Israel.

    Even moreso, Israel has been put on hold, as a nation, for 2000 years. Their "false prophecy" has lost importance. The Church, today, holds the cards as far as true prophecy. And so, it is in the nations where Christianity has resided that the danger of "false prophecy" exists.

    Beyond this, the "beasts" represented Israel's antagonists, and not Israel itself. I think the 2nd Beast is therefore a religious authority behind the 1st Beast. They both represent European power under the control of Satan and the Antichrist. The False Prophet is likely a bad pope, in my view. But we can agree to disagree, brother.

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    Re: Who is this beast?

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    Which Scripture by John do you mean?

    You completely ignored my scripture about God being the only uncreated and eternal one can you admit that you were mistaken? We all are at times
    And Jesus/Holy Spirit are God, so what's the overall point ?

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    Re: Who is this beast?

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    And Jesus/Holy Spirit are God, so what's the overall point ?
    My point is that you said that the spirit of antichrist is eternal and was never created and the scriptures proved that you are wrong

    Be honest with yourself and this forum we all make mistakes

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    Re: Who is this beast?

    Yes, I did acknowledge that Jesus called the Pharisees "false prophets," one way or another. Jesus would *not* be calling anybody outside of Israel "false prophets" at that time because he was sent only to Israel at that time.

    Jesus did not tie Revelation to his calling the Pharisees "false prophets," as far as I can tell?
    But Jesus did use the same words as revelation I canít see this as a coincidence

    Jesus was giving a message which I think was confirmed in revelation

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    Re: Who is this beast?

    [QUOTE][Even moreso, Israel has been put on hold, as a nation, for 2000 years. Their "false prophecy" has lost importance. The Church, today, holds the cards as far as true prophecy. And so, it is in the nations where Christianity has resided that the danger of "false prophecy" exists./QUOTE]

    Thatís why I think this happened around Jesus death

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    Re: Who is this beast?

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    But Jesus did use the same words as revelation I canít see this as a coincidence

    Jesus was giving a message which I think was confirmed in revelation
    I don't recall you comparing Revelation and Jesus using the same words? What same words? The False Prophet of Revelation is very different than Jesus calling the Pharisees names!

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    Re: Who is this beast?

    Beyond this, the "beasts" represented Israel's antagonists, and not Israel itself. I think the 2nd Beast is therefore a religious authority behind the 1st Beast. They both represent European power under the control of Satan and the Antichrist. The False Prophet is likely a bad pope, in my view. But we can agree to disagree, brother.
    I think the second beast diverts the jews to the first beast

    Donít you that that the second beast being the only beast described as the clean animal means something that is also no coincidence as he is described as a lamb and Jesus came to the lost sheep of Israel

    I think what is more important than all the tiny details in the bible is the message of the bible and the message is given to the people who it was written to. Yes all of the bible is for us but it wasnít written to us different parts of the bible including revelation were written to certain people at certain times about certain situations.

    I think the message to the seven churchís was that the beast who diverted the Jews from God to Rome would be judged and that Rome would persecute the saints and then destroy Jerusalem the city who was the whore and prostitued herself out to Rome and eventually Rome would be judged to

    I also donít see the second beast completed in apostate Israel but this demonic beast used apostate Israel

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