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Thread: Who is this beast?

  1. #1
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    Who is this beast?

    In the bible we see different beast mostly described as animals who are gentile nations and people who persecuted Israel and the church.

    But what about the first century Christ rejecting Jews who persecuted the church?

    Are they one of these described beast?

    If not why not?

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    Re: Who is this beast?

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    In the bible we see different beast mostly described as animals who are gentile nations and people who persecuted Israel and the church.

    But what about the first century Christ rejecting Jews who persecuted the church?

    Are they one of these described beast?

    If not why not?
    I am a bit surprised that no one has responded to this thread but then again maybe not to surprised as tying a beast to Israel maybe quite a bold step to take but doesnít it make sense that the first people to persecute the church would be influenced by a demonic beast?

    Wouldnít satan put his best demonic being into trying to wipeout the church as soon as it started?

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    Re: Who is this beast?

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    I am a bit surprised that no one has responded to this thread but then again maybe not to surprised as tying a beast to Israel maybe quite a bold step to take but doesn’t it make sense that the first people to persecute the church would be influenced by a demonic beast?

    Wouldn’t satan put his best demonic being into trying to wipeout the church as soon as it started?
    The whole premise misses what a Beast actually is.

    The beasts, like Animals who are Dominate....Dominate the Mediterranean Sea Region....See Egypt's Kingdom on a map, likewise Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome. We know the Anti-Christ will likewise conquer the Mediterranean Sea Region also. Of course all were over Israel at the same time.

    I don't even comprehend how the Jews coming against Christendom could be a Beast of the REGION and Israel. Rome was still the Beast.

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    Re: Who is this beast?

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    The whole premise misses what a Beast actually is.

    The beasts, like Animals who are Dominate....Dominate the Mediterranean Sea Region....See Egypt's Kingdom on a map, likewise Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome. We know the Anti-Christ will likewise conquer the Mediterranean Sea Region also. Of course all were over Israel at the same time.

    I don't even comprehend how the Jews coming against Christendom could be a Beast of the REGION and Israel. Rome was still the Beast.
    Actually beast are demonic beings under Satanís rule who influence nations and their leaders to concur other nations and at times try to wipe out Gods faithful people

    Apostate Israel fits the description of a nation trying to wipe out Gods people and two beast existed at the same time to work together to try wipe out the church when it started

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    Re: Who is this beast?

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    In the bible we see different beast mostly described as animals who are gentile nations and people who persecuted Israel and the church.

    But what about the first century Christ rejecting Jews who persecuted the church?

    Are they one of these described beast?

    If not why not?
    If you're talking about Dan 7, it can't be Israel because the 4 beasts represent 4 major kingdoms in the region of the Mediterranean and Israel, who come to impact Israel as pagan kingdoms. The 1st one is identified as Babylon. We know this was followed by Persia and Greece, both of whom are mentioned in Daniel. Finally, Rome is the final Kingdom in sequence, which is significant because in that empire Christ was crucified and Jerusalem was destroyed. Israel does not destroy itself, and is not one of these four.

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    Re: Who is this beast?

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    Actually beast are demonic beings under Satan’s rule who influence nations and their leaders to concur other nations and at times try to wipe out Gods faithful people

    Apostate Israel fits the description of a nation trying to wipe out Gods people and two beast existed at the same time to work together to try wipe out the church when it started
    No they aren't....Satan is ONLY A BEAST in juxtaposition to..........Rev. 12, the 7 Heads and 10 Horns with 7 CROWNS. Apollyon is ONLY A BEAST in Rev. 17 in juxtaposition to the 7 Heads and 10 Horns and no Crowns. {7 HEADS and 10 Horns = the Mediterranean Seas Region INCLUDING Israel.}

    Satan is not a Beast just because hes a Demon, neither is Apollyon. They are like the Anti-Christ, a Beast over a certain REGION.

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    Re: Who is this beast?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    If you're talking about Dan 7, it can't be Israel because the 4 beasts represent 4 major kingdoms in the region of the Mediterranean and Israel, who come to impact Israel as pagan kingdoms. The 1st one is identified as Babylon. We know this was followed by Persia and Greece, both of whom are mentioned in Daniel. Finally, Rome is the final Kingdom in sequence, which is significant because in that empire Christ was crucified and Jerusalem was destroyed. Israel does not destroy itself, and is not one of these four.
    No I'm not meaning any of Daniels beast at all but one from Revelation one that isn't a nation concurring beast but the false prophet the only beast which is described as a clean animal not an unclean animal which would represent Israel.

    Revelation 13:11
    Then I saw a second beast, coming out of the earth. He has 2 horns like a lamb but speaks like a dragon he looks gentle but he is evil.

    How did Jesus describe false prophets and who did He say false prophets are?

    Jesus talking about the Pharisees and He describes them in

    Matthew 7:15
    Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.

    Jesus above links the false prophet to the Pharisees

    John 8:44
    44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies

    Jesus also links the Pharisees to the satan the dragon in the verse above

    If you were satan wouldn't do your best to wipe out the church when it first started?

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    Re: Who is this beast?

    To be a true false prophet you need to one from the same people the true prophets came from

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    Re: Who is this beast?

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    No I'm not meaning any of Daniels beast at all but one from Revelation one that isn't a nation concurring beast but the false prophet the only beast which is described as a clean animal not an unclean animal which would represent Israel.

    Revelation 13:11
    Then I saw a second beast, coming out of the earth. He has 2 horns like a lamb but speaks like a dragon he looks gentle but he is evil.

    How did Jesus describe false prophets and who did He say false prophets are?

    Jesus talking about the Pharisees and He describes them in

    Matthew 7:15
    Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.

    Jesus above links the false prophet to the Pharisees

    John 8:44
    44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your fatherís desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies

    Jesus also links the Pharisees to the satan the dragon in the verse above

    If you were satan wouldn't do your best to wipe out the church when it first started?
    I should think the 2nd Beast could be an apostate Pope of an apostate Catholic Church. After all, the last beast in Dan 7 is Rome. Rome could be represented both by an emperor and a pope, ie the Antichrist and the False Prophet. I would not think that Israel is a part of this pagan entity. Israel is corrupt, but maintains a believing remnant destined to lead the way to Israel's national salvation.

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    Re: Who is this beast?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    I should think the 2nd Beast could be an apostate Pope of an apostate Catholic Church. After all, the last beast in Dan 7 is Rome. Rome could be represented both by an emperor and a pope, ie the Antichrist and the False Prophet. I would not think that Israel is a part of this pagan entity. Israel is corrupt, but maintains a believing remnant destined to lead the way to Israel's national salvation.
    I donít think that the last beast in Daniel is Rome I think it was Greece

    Iím not saying Israel but apostate Israel remember that they rejected and killed their messiah and then turned their back on God and claimed that they have no king but Cesar if Cesar was their king they were pagan

    If we put aside general biblical preconceived ideas and read what the scriptures say it does back my claim

    This beast is called the false prophet

    Jesus calls the Pharisees false prophets

    This beast has two horns like a lamb

    Jesus called the Pharisees wolves in sheepís clothing

    This beast speaks like a dragon

    Jesus said that the Pharisees are the sons of the devil who is the dragon because of what they say

    Satan used King Herod king of the Jews to try and kill Jesus when he was born and eventually Satan used apostate Israel to
    Kill Jesus

    This demonic beast job is to give power and glory to the first beast and using apostate Israel to turn the Jewish people from their messiah to Cesar was one way of doing it I donít think my claim is that far fetched

    Satan was in the background of Jesus death and the Jewish persecution of the first century saints

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    Re: Who is this beast?

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    No they aren't....Satan is ONLY A BEAST in juxtaposition to..........Rev. 12, the 7 Heads and 10 Horns with 7 CROWNS. Apollyon is ONLY A BEAST in Rev. 17 in juxtaposition to the 7 Heads and 10 Horns and no Crowns. {7 HEADS and 10 Horns = the Mediterranean Seas Region INCLUDING Israel.}

    Satan is not a Beast just because hes a Demon, neither is Apollyon. They are like the Anti-Christ, a Beast over a certain REGION.
    Itís quite something that people keep saying the antichrist when there isnít any the antichrist the bible says that there are many antichrist but who were they?

    Below are the only verses in the bible with the word antichrist

    2 John 1:7
    7 I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.

    1 John 4:3
    3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

    1 John 2:22
    22 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichristódenying the Father and the Son.

    1 John 2:18-19
    18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

    John tells us that antichrist is a spirit and John describes the non believing Jews of his days as that antichrists spirit

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    Re: Who is this beast?

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    I donít think that the last beast in Daniel is Rome I think it was Greece

    Iím not saying Israel but apostate Israel remember that they rejected and killed their messiah and then turned their back on God and claimed that they have no king but Cesar if Cesar was their king they were pagan

    If we put aside general biblical preconceived ideas and read what the scriptures say it does back my claim

    This beast is called the false prophet

    Jesus calls the Pharisees false prophets

    This beast has two horns like a lamb

    Jesus called the Pharisees wolves in sheepís clothing

    This beast speaks like a dragon

    Jesus said that the Pharisees are the sons of the devil who is the dragon because of what they say

    Satan used King Herod king of the Jews to try and kill Jesus when he was born and eventually Satan used apostate Israel to
    Kill Jesus

    This demonic beast job is to give power and glory to the first beast and using apostate Israel to turn the Jewish people from their messiah to Cesar was one way of doing it I donít think my claim is that far fetched

    Satan was in the background of Jesus death and the Jewish persecution of the first century saints
    Yes, I understand the arguments. However, the same could be applied to the apostate Church. The Church consists of sheep, and in a state of apostasy acts like the Devil. The Catholic Church, at the time of its apostasy during the Protestant Reformation, murdered lots of Protestant Christians.

    There is really no difference in how you apply this to Israel as to how I apply it to the apostate Church. The major problem for me is that the 4 Beasts are, for me, identified in Daniel as beginning with Babylon and ending with Rome, who crucified Christ and destroyed the temple and Jerusalem.

    The beast, therefore, is Rome. The Antichrist and the False Prophet both will rule over a last days version of the old pagan Roman Empire. Just my opinion.

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    Re: Who is this beast?

    "Beast"...Ö..is no know country. The kingdom is called a "beast" as it has no name. So stop trying to associate a country to the beast. The beast kingdom origin is Hell which comes upon the earth (Hell on earth). The fourth kingdom is this hell on earth which we see rise up in Rev 13.

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    Re: Who is this beast?

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    "Beast"...Ö..is no know country. The kingdom is called a "beast" as it has no name. So stop trying to associate a country to the beast. The beast kingdom origin is Hell which comes upon the earth (Hell on earth). The fourth kingdom is this hell on earth which we see rise up in Rev 13.
    The fact is, the Beasts represent Kingdoms. Daniel identified the "Head of Gold" as Babylon, which is in fact a country. Babylon was the capital city over a great kingdom.

    Dan 2.37 You, O king, the king of kings, to whom the God of heaven has given the kingdom, the power, and the might, and the glory, 38 and into whose hand he has given, wherever they dwell, the children of man, the beasts of the field, and the birds of the heavens, making you rule over them allóyou are the head of gold. 39 Another kingdom inferior to you shall arise after you, and yet a third kingdom of bronze, which shall rule over all the earth. 40 And there shall be a fourth kingdom, strong as iron, because iron breaks to pieces and shatters all things.

    These 4 kingdoms in Dan 2 are comparable, in the minds of many, with the 4 kingdoms in Dan 7, which are then described as "beasts." There, they appear to be "kingdoms" as well.

    Dan 7.17 ĎThese four great beasts are four kings who shall arise out of the earth. 18 But the saints of the Most High shall receive the kingdom and possess the kingdom forever, forever and ever...í 23 ďThus he said: ĎAs for the fourth beast,
    there shall be a fourth kingdom on earth,
    which shall be different from all the kingdoms,
    and it shall devour the whole earth,
    and trample it down, and break it to pieces.

    Please note the comparison between Dan 2.40 and Dan 7.23. The 4th kingdom "breaks to pieces," or is superior to previous kingdoms, until God's Kingdom arrives.

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    Re: Who is this beast?

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    These 4 kingdoms in Dan 2 are comparable, in the minds of many, with the 4 kingdoms in Dan 7, which are then described as "beasts." There, they appear to be "kingdoms" as well.
    That's the problem these four kingdoms is Dan 2 are NOT the same four!!!!!!

    These four in Dan 7 are the four which come out of the third kingdom broken into four parts!!!!!

    8 Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven. 9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

    The four notable ones are the lion, bear, leopard, beast.

    You see God has four beasts (four kings) which are part of his kingdom which shall rule all at one time upon the earth. Likewise prior to this an other four kings which shall arise all at once upon the earth mimicking the kingdom but this kingdom is from below not above. The four beasts of this kingdom below which come up all at once are the lion, bear, leopard, beast.


    Do you not see the parallel counterfeit deception?

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