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Thread: Can a Saved man choose to be Lost?

  1. #1

    Can a Saved man choose to be Lost?

    Some believe that once you decide to be saved you can never choose to be lost again, it is irrevocable on your part. When you accept Jesus as your Saviour, it will be the final choice you will ever make about your eternal destiny. If you change your mind later and repudiate your decision, it will be too late, nothing can change it. No matter how deeply and sincerely you desire to be lost and repent of your repentance, you cannot escape from eternal life. No amount of bitter rebellion, deliberate blasphemy, or iniquitous living can change that once-for-all decision to be saved.

    Is this what the Bible teaches or could it be that maybe salvation is not predicated upon only one irrevocable act or choice of the past, but upon a continuous, personal relationship of the believer with Christ

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    Re: Can a Saved man choose to be Lost?

    Quote Originally Posted by hobie View Post
    Some believe that once you decide to be saved you can never choose to be lost again, it is irrevocable on your part. When you accept Jesus as your Saviour, it will be the final choice you will ever make about your eternal destiny. If you change your mind later and repudiate your decision, it will be too late, nothing can change it. No matter how deeply and sincerely you desire to be lost and repent of your repentance, you cannot escape from eternal life. No amount of bitter rebellion, deliberate blasphemy, or iniquitous living can change that once-for-all decision to be saved.

    Is this what the Bible teaches or could it be that maybe salvation is not predicated upon only one irrevocable act or choice of the past, but upon a continuous, personal relationship of the believer with Christ
    These verses answer your question for me.

    2 Corinthians 5:17
    “Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature:
    old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.”

    Matthew 9:17
    “Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.”

    Ephesians 4:24
    “and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.”

    Matthew 7:16
    “Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.”

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    Re: Can a Saved man choose to be Lost?

    Quote Originally Posted by hobie View Post
    Some believe that once you decide to be saved you can never choose to be lost again, it is irrevocable on your part.
    I think this begs the question on whether we "decide to be saved" in the first place.

    “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy ... He has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills. (Romans 9)

    But we can actually circumvent the whole Romans 9 conversation and just go straight to what Jesus said Himself:

    And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. For it is My Father’s will that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day (John 6:39)

    If someone "decides to be lost" after being in the body of Christ, after looking to the Son for salvation, and after being sealed with the Holy Spirit - then He has lost someone that the Father had given. I think contrary to how many churches seem to think, salvation is not all about us but about God claiming a people out of the world for Himself. Salvation is dependent upon God, so it cannot be changed unless God changes His mind and revokes the covenant He made with us when we believed in His sacrifice.

    I will not violate My covenant or alter the utterance of My lips. (Psalm 89:34)
    「耶和華聖潔無比,獨一無二,沒有磐石像我們的上帝。
    撒母耳記上 (1 Samuel) 2:2

  4. #4

    Re: Can a Saved man choose to be Lost?

    Quote Originally Posted by hobie View Post
    Some believe that once you decide to be saved you can never choose to be lost again, it is irrevocable on your part. When you accept Jesus as your Saviour, it will be the final choice you will ever make about your eternal destiny. If you change your mind later and repudiate your decision, it will be too late, nothing can change it. No matter how deeply and sincerely you desire to be lost and repent of your repentance, you cannot escape from eternal life. No amount of bitter rebellion, deliberate blasphemy, or iniquitous living can change that once-for-all decision to be saved.

    Is this what the Bible teaches or could it be that maybe salvation is not predicated upon only one irrevocable act or choice of the past, but upon a continuous, personal relationship of the believer with Christ

    When we accept Christ , it becomes a lifelong test of sincerity. Think about what the bible says about Jesus , who he is, what he offers believers.....anyone who actually does believe Jesus as he is presented in Gods word, will be saved . There is a difference between saying " sure I believe in Jesus" and believing in Jesus from the heart. Just hearing and believing doesn't guarantee anything, but the enemy comes directly to steal the seed that is sown , others hear the word and receive it with joy but then the cares of this life and deceitful ess of wealth and possessions cut them off from bearing fruit. Well actually just consider this parable explaination from the lord of the four soils parable I believe it applies to your post


    “The sower soweth the word.

    And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

    And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness; And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.

    And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word, And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.

    And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred.”
    **Mark‬ *4:14-20‬ *KJV‬‬


    To believe is enough , but sincere belief would not reject things like this

    “And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

    Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.

    But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.”
    **Luke‬ *6:46-49‬ *KJV‬‬


    Jesus says many things like this to press us who believe that he is who he says he is,mthese who have faith , into and toward obedience. He also teaches many things about mercy , forgiveness for our sins, as we follow and believe....it's about who perseveres in faith , not just who says I believe and I'm saved....we persevere and he will then welcome us home....it's about how we live our lives , walking by faith or in sin

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    Re: Can a Saved man choose to be Lost?

    Matthew 12:31-32

    "Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. "Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

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    Re: Can a Saved man choose to be Lost?

    Jude 1:12 refers to those who are "twice dead, plucked up by the roots." How does one become twice dead while still in this life unless he was dead, made alive and became dead again? Choosing would be the proper term, as no one "loses" their salvation. For those who believe in free will, does one lose free will after salvation?
    Some people don't mind contradicting themselves as long as they can keep disagreeing with you...

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    Re: Can a Saved man choose to be Lost?

    I don't believe God would force someone to Heaven against their will if they have believed then for whatever reason rejected His salvation. I don't think we lose free will. I don't think its a case of Christ losing us, because He doesn't but like I said I think we have that free will to give Him up, which is pretty frightening I think.

    Hebrews 6 New Living Translation (NLT)

    4 For it is impossible to bring back to repentance those who were once enlightened—those who have experienced the good things of heaven and shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the power of the age to come— 6 and who then turn away from God. It is impossible to bring such people back to repentance; by rejecting the Son of God, they themselves are nailing him to the cross once again and holding him up to public shame.

    7 When the ground soaks up the falling rain and bears a good crop for the farmer, it has God’s blessing. 8 But if a field bears thorns and thistles, it is useless. The farmer will soon condemn that field and burn it.


    God bless
    "People do not drift toward holiness. Apart from grace-driven effort, people do not gravitate toward godliness, prayer, obedience to Scripture, faith, and delight in the Lord. We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; We drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; We drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation; we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism; we slide toward godlessness and convince ourselves we have been liberated?" - D A Carson

  8. #8

    Re: Can a Saved man choose to be Lost?

    Let's be honest, if it was up to us, if we were calling the shots, if we were the ones really in control, none of us would be saved in the first place.

  9. #9

    Re: Can a Saved man choose to be Lost?

    Quote Originally Posted by moonglow View Post
    I don't believe God would force someone to Heaven against their will if they have believed then for whatever reason rejected His salvation. I don't think we lose free will. I don't think its a case of Christ losing us, because He doesn't but like I said I think we have that free will to give Him up, which is pretty frightening I think.

    Hebrews 6 New Living Translation (NLT)

    4 For it is impossible to bring back to repentance those who were once enlightened—those who have experienced the good things of heaven and shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the power of the age to come— 6 and who then turn away from God. It is impossible to bring such people back to repentance; by rejecting the Son of God, they themselves are nailing him to the cross once again and holding him up to public shame.

    7 When the ground soaks up the falling rain and bears a good crop for the farmer, it has God’s blessing. 8 But if a field bears thorns and thistles, it is useless. The farmer will soon condemn that field and burn it.


    God bless
    A principle of the gospel


    “I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

    Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

    If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

    If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.”
    **John‬ *15:1-4, 6-10‬ *KJV‬‬

    the fruit that both the field which drinks of the rain and basks in the sun, and the unfruitful branch , need to exhibit are the fruits of the spirit...

    “For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.”
    **Ephesians‬ *5:8-10‬ *KJV‬‬


    “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.”
    **Galatians‬ *5:22-25‬ *KJV‬‬

    we need to be learning, walking in and producing the fruits of the spirit in our lives. Goodness , righteousness, faith, meekness, self control, temperance, truth , fairness, compassion toward others outside of our small circles...especially the least among us. If we keep bearing sinful deeds as our fruit, the thorns and thistles , and do not begin producing Gods fruit...well it's not easy to hear but true

    “I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

    He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none. Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?

    And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it: And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.”
    **Luke‬ *13:5-9‬ *KJV‬‬


    Jesus intercedes for us , but we can still refuse his offer of salvation through repentance and reconciliation.

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    Re: Can a Saved man choose to be Lost?

    You will get different responses. Here’s a thought.

    John 10:27–29 (ESV): 27*My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28*I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29*My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

    Jesus said his sheep will never perish.

    TrustGzus is one of Jesus’ sheep.
    Jesus’ sheep will never perish.
    TrustGzus will never perish.

    If I perish, then either I was never one of his sheep or Jesus was wrong. Obviously Jesus being wrong is not a valid option.

    In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity. - Rupertus Meldenius

    Read your Bible and pray every single day. - Pastor Jon Courson

    If your grace ain't greasier than a bucket full of chitlin's and gravy, you might be a legalist - an internet friend.

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    Re: Can a Saved man choose to be Lost?

    Choosing is not being snatched. Of course, if one believes that a lost man cannot choose to be saved, then how could one believe that a saved man could choose to be lost.
    Some people don't mind contradicting themselves as long as they can keep disagreeing with you...

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    Re: Can a Saved man choose to be Lost?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChangedByHim View Post
    Choosing is not being snatched. Of course, if one believes that a lost man cannot choose to be saved, then how could one believe that a saved man could choose to be lost.
    Before we get to the snatch part, we have to speak of the phrase “they will never perish”. Those words aren’t hard to understand. Try to read that verse like a virgin reading. First time ever. Without the theological baggage you and I carry.

    They will never perish.

    In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity. - Rupertus Meldenius

    Read your Bible and pray every single day. - Pastor Jon Courson

    If your grace ain't greasier than a bucket full of chitlin's and gravy, you might be a legalist - an internet friend.

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    Re: Can a Saved man choose to be Lost?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChangedByHim View Post
    Choosing is not being snatched. Of course, if one believes that a lost man cannot choose to be saved, then how could one believe that a saved man could choose to be lost.
    Let me make a separate comment about choosing. David, take a concordance. Look up every single New Testament use of choose, chose, chosen or elect.

    Every single time the New Testament uses those words in a salvific sense, God is the subject and humans are the object or predicate. Every single time.

    When humans are the subject of the verb, it’s about choosing other humans to perform a task.

    Not once does the NT ever use that word of humans choosing God or choosing salvation.

    Do the study. I know what I’m saying can be unsettling at first. But whose doctrine do you want? Yours? Your denomination’s? Or God’s?

    Why teach something in a church’s doctrinal statement that not one NT Scripture uses such language?

    Remember James 3:1....

    James 3:1 (NAS): Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a stricter judgment.

    You, as a pastor, will incur a stricter judgment. You owe it to your congregation, to yourself, and to God to teach what the Bible says, not what you or your church’s statement of faith want it to say.

    Grave & peace to you, Friend and Brother.

    Joe

    In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity. - Rupertus Meldenius

    Read your Bible and pray every single day. - Pastor Jon Courson

    If your grace ain't greasier than a bucket full of chitlin's and gravy, you might be a legalist - an internet friend.

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    Re: Can a Saved man choose to be Lost?

    I am not fond of the word "choose" to believe unto salvation. I don't see where men choose to be saved. What I do see is men can choose to suppress the truth (Romans 1) or refuse to submit to God's purpose for them. If there's a choice, it is a choice to submit or suppress not to believe.

    Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.

    God preached to these men and they suppressed the truth.

    And then there's this passage:

    Luke 7:30 But the Pharisees and the lawyers rejected God's purpose for themselves, not having been baptized by John.

    Men know the truth and suppress it. The pharisees and lawyers rejected the purpose God had for them. If there's a choice to be made, the choice is to submit or to reject. To receive or suppress. But I can't find anywhere where we "choose to believe". We become aware of the truth... then what do we do with it?
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

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    Re: Can a Saved man choose to be Lost?

    Concerning the OP...

    If God cut off a chosen nation, will He also cut off a chosen person?
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

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