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Thread: Building God's Kingdom

  1. #31
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    Re: Building God's Kingdom

    Quote Originally Posted by Christinme View Post
    First I am a sister ... and the "picking and choosing" was not about what questions you answered but what "Christian morality" you wanted to put into legislation ... and yes seems you want to "pick and choose" what to legislate ... even secular society realizes that you can't legislate morality ... I would think a Christian could do the same ... morality can not be legislated ... a society can though legislate to protect the weakest among us ...

    Again ... when Christians themselves "align with the Christian revelation" then after that we should think about having the rest of "society" "align with the Christian revelation" ...
    It appears you don't understand, or simply don't agree. I completely disagree with the statement, "you can't legislate morality." Of course you can! God did it with the 10 Commandments, unless you feel God just vainly instituted a system to cruelly prove to Israel that they can't do it?

    The theocracy was real, sister. When God said, "have no other gods," He meant it, and Israel could do it. The reason Israel failed was because over time sin becomes like leaven, leavening the whole lump. The nation began in an "infected" state, and eventually sin caused compromise and eventual apostasy. But the system was God's preferred system.

    Can you imagine God's ideal society is one in which all religions should be treated equally, Hinduism, Islam, Christianity--all have a right to have their own shrine, their own morality, and their own laws? Won't work! Religious pluralism only works for a time. Eventually, one religion dominates the others. On the other hand, God's Kingdom alone has a right to dominance.

    My point, in the "picking and choosing," is that we have to analyze the state of a society where we live. Nations rise and fall. If we are "on the rise," and have a Christian government, with lots of popular support, Christian laws, being what God wants, can be "legislated." There would be near-universal acceptance. "The Lord is our God, and Him we will serve."

    But if a nation is in a state of backsliding, like so many Western countries today, then other religions have entrenched themselves within our nation, due to Christian compromise, and we will be unable to fight against the combination of liberal Christianity and pagan demands.

    Christianity will be reduced to a minority, and any attempt to impose our religious ideals will be met with resistance, unsettling the political order. Even more, advancing Christian beliefs upon people who do not know Christianity is a perverted form of "evangelism." That kind of religion cannot, indeed, be "legislated." Belief is a matter of conviction. So we probably agree there?

  2. #32
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    Re: Building God's Kingdom

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    It appears you don't understand, or simply don't agree. I completely disagree with the statement, "you can't legislate morality." Of course you can! God did it with the 10 Commandments, unless you feel God just vainly instituted a system to cruelly prove to Israel that they can't do it?

    The theocracy was real, sister. When God said, "have no other gods," He meant it, and Israel could do it. The reason Israel failed was because over time sin becomes like leaven, leavening the whole lump. The nation began in an "infected" state, and eventually sin caused compromise and eventual apostasy. But the system was God's preferred system.

    Can you imagine God's ideal society is one in which all religions should be treated equally, Hinduism, Islam, Christianity--all have a right to have their own shrine, their own morality, and their own laws? Won't work! Religious pluralism only works for a time. Eventually, one religion dominates the others. On the other hand, God's Kingdom alone has a right to dominance.

    My point, in the "picking and choosing," is that we have to analyze the state of a society where we live. Nations rise and fall. If we are "on the rise," and have a Christian government, with lots of popular support, Christian laws, being what God wants, can be "legislated." There would be near-universal acceptance. "The Lord is our God, and Him we will serve."

    But if a nation is in a state of backsliding, like so many Western countries today, then other religions have entrenched themselves within our nation, due to Christian compromise, and we will be unable to fight against the combination of liberal Christianity and pagan demands.

    Christianity will be reduced to a minority, and any attempt to impose our religious ideals will be met with resistance, unsettling the political order. Even more, advancing Christian beliefs upon people who do not know Christianity is a perverted form of "evangelism." That kind of religion cannot, indeed, be "legislated." Belief is a matter of conviction. So we probably agree there?
    When I say we can't legislate morality" I mean and what is normally meant by this is that having something in the law does not then produce moral citizens …

    Have a Christian government … not sure what you mean by that … people are Christians … governments can have Christians in them … but governments aren't Christian …

    I could say that I believe anytime when we as Christians try to impose our religious ideals on others (non Christians) … ideals we don't always even live up to … that this is perverted … I could say that … are you meaning to say that it is ok to do such if we are a majority but not if we are a minority???

    That being said … I am not saying that there should not be laws and that we shouldn't be involved in government at all … I am saying that our primary focus should not be there …
    ***
    Lead me in Your truth and teach me,
    For You are the God of my salvation;
    On You I wait all the day.

    Psalms 25:5
    ***

  3. #33
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    Re: Building God's Kingdom

    Quote Originally Posted by Christinme View Post
    When I say we can't legislate morality" I mean and what is normally meant by this is that having something in the law does not then produce moral citizens
    Yea, I disagree with that. God used the Law to bring morality to an entire nation indiscriminately in the time of Moses. If this was done in vain I don't know why God would do it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Christinme
    Have a Christian government not sure what you mean by that people are Christians governments can have Christians in them but governments aren't Christian
    That's false. Historically, there have been *many* Christian governments/kingdoms.

    Quote Originally Posted by Christinme
    I could say that I believe anytime when we as Christians try to impose our religious ideals on others (non Christians) ideals we don't always even live up to that this is perverted I could say that are you meaning to say that it is ok to do such if we are a majority but not if we are a minority???
    Yes, as a minority we would be imposing something on people who have not been adequately presented with the Gospel. Only as a major majority would we be acting, legislatively, on behalf of the people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Christinme
    That being said I am not saying that there should not be laws and that we shouldn't be involved in government at all I am saying that our primary focus should not be there
    This sounds very inconsistent.

  4. #34
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    Re: Building God's Kingdom

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Yea, I disagree with that. God used the Law to bring morality to an entire nation indiscriminately in the time of Moses. If this was done in vain I don't know why God would do it?
    Maybe you should reread Galatians 2 … especially the end …

    Galatians 2:21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.

    and another version …

    Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

    and here is link to many versions

    https://biblehub.com/galatians/2-21.htm

    So do you thing God's goal is imposed morality or righteousness???

    And well the law had a purpose as explained in Scripture so it was not in vain … but I would say God has better goals …



    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    That's false. Historically, there have been *many* Christian governments/kingdoms.
    Please do tell me all the names of all these *many* Christian governments/kingdoms ...



    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Yes, as a minority we would be imposing something on people who have not been adequately presented with the Gospel. Only as a major majority would we be acting, legislatively, on behalf of the people.
    So I guess you are saying we as a majority should impose on non believers our "religious ideals" … and why would Christians need a Government to impose Christian ideals on themselves … ??? Shouldn't the Church be dealing with that ???



    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    This sounds very inconsistent.
    How does that sound inconsistent … I say it shouldn't be our primary focus … that was the question of the OP … and I think we should be very thoughtful about what laws we promote imposing on others ...
    ***
    Lead me in Your truth and teach me,
    For You are the God of my salvation;
    On You I wait all the day.

    Psalms 25:5
    ***

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