View Poll Results: What kingdom per Dan 2 do we currently live?

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  • Babylon

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  • Media/Persia

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  • Grecia

    1 33.33%
  • Fourth Kingdom

    2 66.67%
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Thread: What kingdom do we currently live per Dan 2?

  1. #1
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    What kingdom do we currently live per Dan 2?

    Note we must be one of them. Now I think we can all agree one and two have past and moist would also say the third "Grecia". However if then you say we live in the fourth kingdom then where and who are the ten toes which should be easily identified since we are supposed in the midst of the kingdom...In addition, where or what event shows where this fourth kingdom has broken down and subdued all things?

    Thus we can only be currently living in the third kingdom.

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    Re: What kingdom do we currently live per Dan 2?

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Note we must be one of them. Now I think we can all agree one and two have past and moist would also say the third "Grecia". However if then you say we live in the fourth kingdom then where and who are the ten toes which should be easily identified since we are supposed in the midst of the kingdom...In addition, where or what event shows where this fourth kingdom has broken down and subdued all things?

    Thus we can only be currently living in the third kingdom.
    You need a 5th option none of the above

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    Re: What kingdom do we currently live per Dan 2?

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    You need a 5th option none of the above
    I did not include it as it is NOT an logical/biblical option.

    How did I know you would say this...…….The image in Dan 2 is not all in the past my friend.

    44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed:and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

    This did not occur at Christ's death but will be at the 2nd coming.

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    Re: What kingdom do we currently live per Dan 2?

    As I've said before, the 4 kingdoms of Daniel are Babylon, which is identified, Persia, which is also identified, Greece, which is also identified, and then the 4th kingdom of Rome, which is inferred as the "people of the prince to come" in Dan 9.26.

    Rome is hugely significant in the Bible because it is in this empire that the world of the NT took place, the crucifixion of Christ took place, and the ministry of the apostles took place. It was in the Roman Empire that Christianity got its initial thrust, and spread out from there across Europe.

    Rome was the most daunting power up to that time in the Mediterranean. If Babylon was the "head of gold," Rome was the "indescribable beast." We see the continuation of Rome, despite its fatal wound, because even though Satan was defeated at the cross, the Roman Empire continued. And though Rome fell in 476 AD, the Eastern Empire continued for a 1000 years. And even when the Eastern Empire fell in 1453 AD, the Western part of the empire had been reconsolidated under the Holy Roman Empire.

    The "10 Toes" evolve only at the end of this great imperial tradition in Europe. And in reality, nation states have been developing for centuries in Europe. Who knows which 10 will constitute the "10 Toes?" When they finally come together under the reconstitution of the New Roman Empire, it will then be called the Kingdom of Antichrist.

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    Re: What kingdom do we currently live per Dan 2?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    As I've said before, the 4 kingdoms of Daniel are Babylon, which is identified, Persia, which is also identified, Greece, which is also identified, and then the 4th kingdom of Rome, which is inferred as the "people of the prince to come" in Dan 9.26.
    I know you have....Actually you being the historic the Roman empire is actually a continuation of Greece. The fourth kingdom would be more appropriate called a revived "Babylonian" empire with Nebuchadnezzar as it's revived head. The fourth kingdom is revived from the first kingdom Babylon. Hence the whore is called "Babylon the Great", not "Rome the Great".

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    Re: What kingdom do we currently live per Dan 2?

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Note we must be one of them. Now I think we can all agree one and two have past and moist would also say the third "Grecia". However if then you say we live in the fourth kingdom then where and who are the ten toes which should be easily identified since we are supposed in the midst of the kingdom...In addition, where or what event shows where this fourth kingdom has broken down and subdued all things?

    Thus we can only be currently living in the third kingdom.
    We are IN BETWEEN Beasts at this time...........just like there were no Beasts before Egypt......none after Rome until the Rapture of the Church, which could happen only after Israel was REBORN as a Nation.....there can be NO BEAST with no Israel.

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    Re: What kingdom do we currently live per Dan 2?

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    I did not include it as it is NOT an logical/biblical option.

    How did I know you would say this....The image in Dan 2 is not all in the past my friend.

    44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed:and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

    This did not occur at Christ's death but will be at the 2nd coming.
    I think that it started before the first advent as it was in the time of those kings and king Neb was one of those kings

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    Re: What kingdom do we currently live per Dan 2?

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    I know you have....Actually you being the historic the Roman empire is actually a continuation of Greece. The fourth kingdom would be more appropriate called a revived "Babylonian" empire with Nebuchadnezzar as it's revived head. The fourth kingdom is revived from the first kingdom Babylon. Hence the whore is called "Babylon the Great", not "Rome the Great".
    Yea, I'm not saying that your view is unreasonable--it is reasonable. I just don't have the same opinion. I see Rome as called "Babylon the Great" precisely because it is the fulfilment of the sequence of 4 kingdoms, beginning with Babylon, and leading to the Roman Empire.

    Furthermore, John was in the habit of cryptically referring to the Roman Empire using puzzles or symbols, so as to not get in trouble with the people who were persecuting him. The city that "rules over the whole world" in John's time was Rome.

    Rev 17.18 The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.

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    Re: What kingdom do we currently live per Dan 2?

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Note we must be one of them.
    No, we can be in the time inbetween them which is the correct answer BTW.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: What kingdom do we currently live per Dan 2?

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Note we must be one of them. Now I think we can all agree one and two have past and moist would also say the third "Grecia". However if then you say we live in the fourth kingdom then where and who are the ten toes which should be easily identified since we are supposed in the midst of the kingdom...In addition, where or what event shows where this fourth kingdom has broken down and subdued all things?

    Thus we can only be currently living in the third kingdom.
    The answer is in Daniel 2:33; "His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay."

    Now the "thighs" are brass, so the "legs" of verse 33 must be the knees and below. If the head was Babylon under Nebuchadnezzar, and the other kingdoms are "after" that, the toes must be "after" the calves. Verses 40-43 seem to bear this out;

    40 "And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.
    41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.
    42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.
    43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay."


    The words of scripture introduce FIRST iron, and it is the iron that makes its so successful. But then the clay is added as verse 43 says, and the kingdom is weakened. Thus, the language indicates that the ten toes come at the end only. This ties with Revelation as the ten kings are reigning when the Beast comes out of the Abyss and only has seven years.

    Rome, the fourth Kingdom, was once mighty. It straddled Europe, Middle East and Africa. Of all the four kingdoms it ruled the most land. Thus it has two feet to straddle land. According t the grammar, the "division" is not the Two legs but the attempted mixture of iron and clay. Rome was strong as iron and straddled the most land of all four kingdoms. It declined militarily and so changed from the "Roman Empire" to "The Holy Roman Empire". It still straddles the earth to an even greater degree, for it does not fight with swords but with with the pulpit. And Roman Catholic pulpits are in all lands.

    We live in the Fourth Kingdom - Rome. The Ten kings will only be revealed near the end of the "time of the Gentiles" - that is, within one generation of the ascending of the Beast.

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    Re: What kingdom do we currently live per Dan 2?

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    We are IN BETWEEN Beasts at this time...........just like there were no Beasts before Egypt......none after Rome until the Rapture of the Church, which could happen only after Israel was REBORN as a Nation.....there can be NO BEAST with no Israel.
    So what two beasts are we between?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    No, we can be in the time inbetween them which is the correct answer BTW.
    So what two beasts are we between?

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    Re: What kingdom do we currently live per Dan 2?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    Thus, the language indicates that the ten toes come at the end only. This ties with Revelation as the ten kings are reigning when the Beast comes out of the Abyss and only has seven years.
    I agree the toes come in the latter end, as also Dan 8 bears this out….this speaks of the little horn from the 10.

    23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.

    So then the 10 toes are the latter part of the kingdom then who is reigning now if we are in the fourth kingdom? Rome?

    Well, Obviously Rome is not ruling now. So le'ts look back in Dan 8 for the answer. We see before the ten toes the four kingdom is broken into four parts. These four parts then would be the start of the fourth kingdom then the toes would be the latter.

    8 Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.

    So the third kingdom is broken into four parts which then makes up the start of the fourth kingdom. Then we see the latter of this fourth kingdom the little horn coming forth from the 10 toes.

    9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.


    Then the vision is explained...

    21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.
    22 Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power.
    23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.

    The four kingdoms standing up out of the third kingdom constitutes the fourth kingdom! As in the latter time of their kingdom of the four (kings) then does the ten toes produce the little horn.

    Now Dan 7 shows us the same thing. First four kings the start of the fourth kingdom then out of the fourth beast in the latter time of their kingdom then does a little horn come forth from the 10!!!! As I have previously posted the four kingdoms in Dan 2 are not the same as in Dan 7. The four in Dan 7 are the four notable ones (horns) which come forth from the third kingdom being broken. These four notable ones represent the fourth kingdom and as we see the fourth beast subdues the kingdom and these previously three have their dominion taken away. When this fourth beast arises and subdues the kingdom this is when the iron is mixed with clay, miry clay from the pit. The fourth kingdom thus becomes a demonic kingdom.

    Now I say all this to show we cannot be in the fourth kingdom as these four kings have not appeared yet!

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    Re: What kingdom do we currently live per Dan 2?

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    I agree the toes come in the latter end, as also Dan 8 bears this out….this speaks of the little horn from the 10.

    23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.

    So then the 10 toes are the latter part of the kingdom then who is reigning now if we are in the fourth kingdom? Rome?

    Well, Obviously Rome is not ruling now. So le'ts look back in Dan 8 for the answer. We see before the ten toes the four kingdom is broken into four parts. These four parts then would be the start of the fourth kingdom then the toes would be the latter.

    8 Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.

    So the third kingdom is broken into four parts which then makes up the start of the fourth kingdom. Then we see the latter of this fourth kingdom the little horn coming forth from the 10 toes.

    9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.


    Then the vision is explained...

    21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.
    22 Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power.
    23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.

    The four kingdoms standing up out of the third kingdom constitutes the fourth kingdom! As in the latter time of their kingdom of the four (kings) then does the ten toes produce the little horn.

    Now Dan 7 shows us the same thing. First four kings the start of the fourth kingdom then out of the fourth beast in the latter time of their kingdom then does a little horn come forth from the 10!!!! As I have previously posted the four kingdoms in Dan 2 are not the same as in Dan 7. The four in Dan 7 are the four notable ones (horns) which come forth from the third kingdom being broken. These four notable ones represent the fourth kingdom and as we see the fourth beast subdues the kingdom and these previously three have their dominion taken away. When this fourth beast arises and subdues the kingdom this is when the iron is mixed with clay, miry clay from the pit. The fourth kingdom thus becomes a demonic kingdom.

    Now I say all this to show we cannot be in the fourth kingdom as these four kings have not appeared yet!
    OK. I appreciate your understanding of the matter. Daniel is difficult and is locked until the end. I'm only going to address what I made in red bold.

    Daniel Chapter 2 does not say who this kingdom is. Nor does Chapter 7. It puts it in the future to Daniel with symbolism. But Revelation 17 introduces the ten kings. It also says unmistakably who the Whore is. And this Whore in Revelation 17:1-18 ...
    1. Sits on "many waters" (v.1) which we learn in verse 15 to be the governments of the earth
    2. Fornicates with the "kings of the earth" (v.2 - NOT the ten kings only)
    3. Is bedecked with the same materials as the Church is made of (v. 4 - see 1st Corinthians 3). So she simulates Christianity
    4. Is called Babylon. But Babylon the military power is the first kingdom to pass. So it must mean the RELIGIOUS Babylon
    5. Is called a "Harlot". The Bible calls a KINGDOM a harlot when they worship strange or pagan gods
    6. Is the chief persecutor of true Christians. Rome is the only world power since Christ and was, and is still today, vehemently against true Christians
    7. Is carried by ten horns. In Daniel 2 the legs stand on ten toes
    8. Is a CITY on seven hills. The only world power of the Bible to sit on 7 hills is Rome
    9. Is carried by the Beast. Daniel 9:26-27 makes him a Roman
    10. Is carried by the Beast who is one of the kings reigning at John's time - Caesars
    11. Is defeated by the Lord. No other kingdom is destroyed by the Lord but Babylon the RELIGIOUS. Daniel 2 says that our Lord destroys the WHOLE effigy - that is, FOUR Kingdoms. But our Lord cannot destroy the three other kingdoms as military entities because they don't exist any more. But their RELIGION does

    Added to this ...
    • The ten kings are FUTURE to Greek world domination because John says that they are future but Greece was defeated already
    • The ten kings live at the time of the Beast - the last 7 or so years of this age
    • The ten kings carry the Whore but also destroy her when the Beast appears and commands universal worship
    • The ten kings are attached to seven hills until they destroy the CITY that spawned the Beast
    • Rome does not rule militarily today. Her power is in the pulpit and her influence is greater than if you commandeered the armies of the world
    • Rome is the single wealthiest entity on earth today
    • The various Treaties of united Europe are "The Treaty of Rome"
    • The various religions of the world ignore Christ. Only Rome "blasphemes" Christ by mixing Christianity with paganism

    I think the evidence is overwhelming. Rome is the fourth kingdom and is ruling today - not by military might, but by the RELIGION of 1.3 billion adherents.

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    Re: What kingdom do we currently live per Dan 2?

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    So what two beasts are we between?
    Well, the last one is the one Christ defeats at the second coming so we are before that one.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: What kingdom do we currently live per Dan 2?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Well, the last one is the one Christ defeats at the second coming so we are before that one.
    ?? Then that would be the third kingdom since the last one is the fourth...… right?

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